Northern Ireland or Republic of Ireland?

First off, I am not sure whether this is in the correct thread but please feel free to move if it isn't.

The matter that I am going to discuss has been driving me mad for such a long time now that I have to talk about it. It does my head in the way the FAI (Republic of Ireland) steals the Northern Irish footballers. If you look at Darron Gibson (Manchester United player), he was born in County Derry (Northern Ireland) and yet somehow he has been cherry picked by the FAI and now plays for the Republic. Under the Good Friday agreement, it does allow people from Northern Ireland the right to choose the nation passport, I.e to have a Great Britain passport or an Ireland passport. I think that that is fair enough. I would consider myself more Irish than British and so I have an Irish passport. But I can't understand how that if you are from the North of Ireland, why you would want to play for the Republic. Religion does play a major role I.e it is the general feeling that Catholics are Republic of Ireland and Protestants are Northern Ireland. However, I am a Catholic and I don't consider myself in any way to be from the Republic of Ireland. Why, if you were from Belfast, for example, would you want to play for people that you can't really relate to. Il give you a few examples of players, other than Darron Gibson, who have been stolen from the North by the Republic. Marc Wilson (Portsmouth player) was born in Lisburn (N.I) and yet somehow he was called up by the ROI. Michael O'Connor (Crewe Alexandra) is a brillinat young talent who played for the Northern Ireland youth teams and then was called up for the ROI u-21s (he since has reverted back to play for the North. Kieran McKenna (Spurs player) born in the Norh and yet was nearly snatched by the ROI. Even players in the current N.I squad, such as Damien Johnson and Chris Baird, were asked to play for the ROI but chose the North. And also Tony Kane from Blackburn. A guy from my year in school (17 years old) has recently moved from Belfast (were he was born and grew up) to play for Colchester United. When the FAI found out about him, they were quickly on the phone asking him to play for them. Thankfully he rejected them. It really makes me sick that the IFA work hard to develop these players and then the FAI com and try to steal them when they look like they could be half decent. If you were born and grew up in Northern Ireland, you should play for them, likewise for people born in ROI.

Even if this has made no sense to any of you, it has helped me let of some steam.

First off, I am not sure whether this is in the correct thread but please feel free to move if it isn't.

The matter that I am going to discuss has been driving me mad for such a long time now that I have to talk about it. It does my head in the way the FAI (Republic of Ireland) steals the Northern Irish footballers. If you look at Darron Gibson (Manchester United player), he was born in County Derry (Northern Ireland) and yet somehow he has been cherry picked by the FAI and now plays for the Republic. Under the Good Friday agreement, it does allow people from Northern Ireland the right to choose the nation passport, I.e to have a Great Britain passport or an Ireland passport. I think that that is fair enough. I would consider myself more Irish than British and so I have an Irish passport. But I can't understand how that if you are from the North of Ireland, why you would want to play for the Republic. Religion does play a major role I.e it is the general feeling that Catholics are Republic of Ireland and Protestants are Northern Ireland. However, I am a Catholic and I don't consider myself in any way to be from the Republic of Ireland. Why, if you were from Belfast, for example, would you want to play for people that you can't really relate to. Il give you a few examples of players, other than Darron Gibson, who have been stolen from the North by the Republic. Marc Wilson (Portsmouth player) was born in Lisburn (N.I) and yet somehow he was called up by the ROI. Michael O'Connor (Crewe Alexandra) is a brillinat young talent who played for the Northern Ireland youth teams and then was called up for the ROI u-21s (he since has reverted back to play for the North. Kieran McKenna (Spurs player) born in the Norh and yet was nearly snatched by the ROI. Even players in the current N.I squad, such as Damien Johnson and Chris Baird, were asked to play for the ROI but chose the North. And also Tony Kane from Blackburn. A guy from my year in school (17 years old) has recently moved from Belfast (were he was born and grew up) to play for Colchester United. When the FAI found out about him, they were quickly on the phone asking him to play for them. Thankfully he rejected them. It really makes me sick that the IFA work hard to develop these players and then the FAI com and try to steal them when they look like they could be half decent. If you were born and grew up in Northern Ireland, you should play for them, likewise for people born in ROI.

Even if this has made no sense to any of you, it has helped me let of some steam.

You say you feel more Irish than British. From this statement I gather that you still feel you are part British. Maybe Darron Gibson doesn't consider himself nor does he want to be called British. The same could be said for the rest of the players who chose The Republic of Ireland over Northern Ireland. If you play for Northern Ireland you are playing for a country considered to be part of the UK and will in turn be considered British. So maybe thats the reason some of them choose to play for us rather than the North. I do agree though that it is unfair of the FAI to steal the players after the IFA helped their development. I don't agree though when you say "Why, if you were from Belfast, for example, would you want to play for people that you can't really relate to". Come on Semple were not talking about two different races here or people who speak different languages! Were all Irish at the end of the day!

Not being Irish (or northern) it doesn't really bother me but don't quite a few nations do this anyway? John Aldridge is as scouse as they come but played many a time for the ROI as did Jason McAteer. Ray Houghton was born in Scotland but played for the ROI.

England have asked Cudicini to play for them and I think they're contemplating asking Almunia once he recieves his British passport, which he may have by now. So it's not exclusive to Ireland.

Hasn't Jimmy Bullard been asked to play for Germany as well in the past due to he nan being German?

Personally I think it's a personal choice. It's up to the indiviual. If you're asked to play for Ireland and are able to then I see no reason as to why you shouldn't if that's what you want. If you'd rather play for the nation in which you were born then it's up to you. I don't think it's the FAI's fault, they're simply looking for the best talent that can legally play for them. It's the players who should be blamed, if anybody, because they're the ones agreeing. As you've stated players like Damien Johnson and Chris Baird refused so it's not like it's law you have to play for the Republic once they come calling.

Also I'm not too sure if religion does play a huge part in it. I know the island of Ireland is very religious with very strong Protestants and Catholics but at the end of the day it's a game of football not a full scale war. In that sense I thought it was out of order the abuse Neil Lennon got once he signed for Celtic by the Northern Ireland fans, although after speaking with a good friend of mine from Belfast she explained that Lennon wasn't given much stick until he refused to play for N.Ireland again. She also explained to me as to why so many Protestants in Scotland and N.Ireland have a real hatred for Celtic but I don't wanna get into a debate over the rights and wrongs of religion in this thread.

Not being Irish (or northern) it doesn't really bother me but don't quite a few nations do this anyway? John Aldridge is as scouse as they come but played many a time for the ROI as did Jason McAteer. Ray Houghton was born in Scotland but played for the ROI.

England have asked Cudicini to play for them and I think they're contemplating asking Almunia once he recieves his British passport, which he may have by now. So it's not exclusive to Ireland.

Hasn't Jimmy Bullard been asked to play for Germany as well in the past due to he nan being German?

Personally I think it's a personal choice. It's up to the indiviual. If you're asked to play for Ireland and are able to then I see no reason as to why you shouldn't if that's what you want. If you'd rather play for the nation in which you were born then it's up to you. I don't think it's the FAI's fault, they're simply looking for the best talent that can legally play for them. It's the players who should be blamed, if anybody, because they're the ones agreeing. As you've stated players like Damien Johnson and Chris Baird refused so it's not like it's law you have to play for the Republic once they come calling.

Also I'm not too sure if religion does play a huge part in it. I know the island of Ireland is very religious with very strong Protestants and Catholics but at the end of the day it's a game of football not a full scale war. In that sense I thought it was out of order the abuse Neil Lennon got once he signed for Celtic by the Northern Ireland fans, although after speaking with a good friend of mine from Belfast she explained that Lennon wasn't given much stick until he refused to play for N.Ireland again. She also explained to me as to why so many Protestants in Scotland and N.Ireland have a real hatred for Celtic but I don't wanna get into a debate over the rights and wrongs of religion in this thread.

Some ood points their DLS. One thing i would say- i am not saying that peoples religous beliefs affect who they play for, i believe its what sid eof the community they are from that affects some players decision on what country to play for. Unfortunately here, most communities represent one religion or the other. Thats the point i was trying to make.

Well I can understand that mate because I wouldn't imagine too many strict Loyalists from N.Ireland would then wanna play for the Republic of the Ireland.

Who would you play for Semple?

Look at the abuse Neil Lennon took because he played for Celtic. Why the f**k should Darren Gibson or any catholic footballer want to play for a set of fans who'd sooner abuse and hate him? You know better then I do people up there see themselves as Irish and there team/country is the Republic of Ireland. Sadly that wont change for many years to come and your country will continue to lose players over it.

Id actually love to see in my life time an all Ireland football team like the rugby. Who knows what that could achieve?

I don't think that pinching is anything to do with it. The choise is the players, and they play for the ROI because they feel that it's going to be better for their international career.

Who would you play for Semple?

Look at the abuse Neil Lennon took because he played for Celtic. Why the f**k should Darren Gibson or any catholic footballer want to play for a set of fans who'd sooner abuse and hate him?

A very, very naive take on things there Brian; maybe even a bit mischievous, eh?

Roman Catholic players have long worn the Northern Irish jersey with pride. Players with no baggage and no hang ups or hatred, that is. Celtic players too, at that. Mr Lennon, on the other hand, is a totally different matter. He let his veil down and sadly dickheads reacted. Windsor Park is a changed place and Darron Gibson, (like the many R.C. players who don the N.I. green), knows that.

Darron Gibson, switched allegiance for reasons that he has said were purely footballing; one would hope he's being truthful. He was the first Northern Irish born player in 71 years to start for the Rep under a FIFA loophole. The lad has to be given the benefit of the doubt as I'm sure not everyone from his community are driven by sectarian bigotry.

I dare say only those who are from a particular community/religion will be head-hunted by the Republic and to me, that says it all. Bigotry ain't one-sided on this little Island, you know.

A very, very naive take on things there Brian; maybe even a bit mischievous, eh?

Roman Catholic players have long worn the Northern Irish jersey with pride. Players with no baggage and no hang ups or hatred, that is. Celtic players too, at that. Mr Lennon, on the other hand, is a totally different matter. He let his veil down and sadly dickheads reacted. Windsor Park is a changed place and Darron Gibson, (like the many R.C. players who don the N.I. green), knows that.

Darron Gibson, switched allegiance for reasons that he has said were purely footballing; one would hope he's being truthful. He was the first Northern Irish born player in 71 years to start for the Rep under a FIFA loophole. The lad has to be given the benefit of the doubt as I'm sure not everyone from his community are driven by sectarian bigotry.

I dare say only those who are from a particular community/religion will be head-hunted by the Republic and to me, that says it all. Bigotry ain't one-sided on this little Island, you know.

I deleted my original reply because Im not getting in to a debate about a player who

A) Is crap
B) Is a manc

Brian mate, iam not trying to pick a fight. Like it or not, Gibson will have a great future ahead of him and its not very often that Northern Ireland have a player of that calibre who they can pick. Thats the point I was trying to make.

A very, very naive take on things there Brian; maybe even a bit mischievous, eh?

Roman Catholic players have long worn the Northern Irish jersey with pride. Players with no baggage and no hang ups or hatred, that is. Celtic players too, at that. Mr Lennon, on the other hand, is a totally different matter. He let his veil down and sadly dickheads reacted. Windsor Park is a changed place and Darron Gibson, (like the many R.C. players who don the N.I. green), knows that.

Darron Gibson, switched allegiance for reasons that he has said were purely footballing; one would hope he's being truthful. He was the first Northern Irish born player in 71 years to start for the Rep under a FIFA loophole. The lad has to be given the benefit of the doubt as I'm sure not everyone from his community are driven by sectarian bigotry.

I dare say only those who are from a particular community/religion will be head-hunted by the Republic and to me, that says it all. Bigotry ain't one-sided on this little Island, you know.

Excellent post mate. Neill Lennon- there is no doubt that he did recieve a lot of abuse from Northern Ireland fans- some of it bigotry and some of it not. The reason why I say this is Lennon was disliked by Catholics from the North and from Glasgow. He was known to be very bad to woman and so was heavily disliked. In terms of the FAI, they are fraud. Look at some of the players they have picked in the past- Houghton, Aldridge, McGeady, Cascirino (unsure of spelling), Alex Bruce (Steve Bruces son), Mick McCarthy and Kevin Nolan was asked to play but thankfully turned down the chance. These are what you would call "Plastic Paddies". I don't know how anyone could go watch their National team that are made up of players from other nations. It dosen't make sense to me.

With regard to the plastic paddies comment let me say this, Aldo Houghton Mick McCarthy and 1 or 2 others played with there heart on there sleeve for Ireland. In Aldos case especially he could have played for his country of birth but was proud to play for his familys country.

Now I dont want to get stuck in a debate on this either but in fairness Semple at this moment in time theres no reason for a young lad from the north to choose the Republic ahead of the north for football reasons as at the minute ye probably have the better team so why else would he?

And as for the Lennon being "bad to woman" are you telling me if a player like Healy or Clingan had a rep for being "bad to woman" they would have had the same treatment from the stands? You know theres more to it. And ye can have Gibson if ye want 

I don't know how anyone could go watch their National team that are made up of players from other nations. It dosen't make sense to me.

As I've already said mate it's not exclusive to Ireland as many nations have players from outside of their homeland. Lets be honest, even the finest footballers the world has ever produced have not played for their home nation. Zidane - Algerian born but played for France. Eusabio - Brazilian born but played for Portugal. Barnes - Jamaican born but played for England. That's only naming a few. It's something that has happened in the past and will continue to happen to in the future.

Also it's not exclusive to football either. Look at England's cricket side - Pietersen born in SA, Shah was born in India (I think), Strauss isn't English then there's other players like Allan Lamb, Nasser Hussain (ex captain) Mark Ramprakash as well as a few others. Haven't the English Rugby Union side got a lad from Samoa in their side Valinkenko or something like that. Lennox Lewis was born in Canada but is considered a British Boxer, same as Greg Radzeski in Tennis.

It happens throughout sport and providing the nation he or she has selected to play for accepts them then I don't see any problem with it.

With regard to the plastic paddies comment let me say this, Aldo Houghton Mick McCarthy and 1 or 2 others played with there heart on there sleeve for Ireland. In Aldos case especially he could have played for his country of birth but was proud to play for his familys country.

Now I dont want to get stuck in a debate on this either but in fairness Semple at this moment in time theres no reason for a young lad from the north to choose the Republic ahead of the north for football reasons as at the minute ye probably have the better team so why else would he?

And as for the Lennon being "bad to woman" are you telling me if a player like Healy or Clingan had a rep for being "bad to woman" they would have had the same treatment from the stands? You know theres more to it. And ye can have Gibson if ye want 

Which is why I said it was partly do with bigotry. Its been quite interesting to hear all your views. And i wasn't trying to cause any argument. By the way  Brian, i wasn't having a go at you or the Irish national team, i was having a go at the FAI that pick these players. The other night, i was very frustrated to hear about my mate eing asked to play for ROI when he played for he NI u18s and u19s. Use ave all put good arguments forward and i respect them. I just feel that you should play for the country that you grew up in and the football association that groomed you. In terms of John Barnes playing for England, i think i am right in saying that Jamaica didn't have  national footballing associatin or a national team at that time. I haven't quite worked out who are in the wrong- FIFA who have not fixed the ruling or the FAI who have taken advantage of it. In terms of other nations picking players from other countries- it does happen but in isolated cases e.g Eusiebo was portuguese-mozambique and had no country to play for as a result of Portugal controlling Mozambique.

As I've already said mate it's not exclusive to Ireland as many nations have players from outside of their homeland. Lets be honest, even the finest footballers the world has ever produced have not played for their home nation. Zidane - Algerian born but played for France. Eusabio - Brazilian born but played for Portugal. Barnes - Jamaican born but played for England. That's only naming a few. It's something that has happened in the past and will continue to happen to in the future.

Also it's not exclusive to football either. Look at England's cricket side - Pietersen born in SA, Shah was born in India (I think), Strauss isn't English then there's other players like Allan Lamb, Nasser Hussain (ex captain) Mark Ramprakash as well as a few others. Haven't the English Rugby Union side got a lad from Samoa in their side Valinkenko or something like that. Lennox Lewis was born in Canada but is considered a British Boxer, same as Greg Radzeski in Tennis.

It happens throughout sport and providing the nation he or she has selected to play for accepts them then I don't see any problem with it.

I meant to say in my last post, i can't really comment on the situation in other sports

Which is why I said it was partly do with bigotry. Its been quite interesting to hear all your views. And I wasn't trying to cause any argument. By the way  Brian, I wasn't having a go at you or the Irish national team, I was having a go at the FAI that pick these players. The other night, I was very frustrated to hear about my mate eing asked to play for ROI when he played for he NI u18s and u19s. Use ave all put good arguments forward and I respect them. I just feel that you should play for the country that you grew up in and the football association that groomed you. In terms of John Barnes playing for England, I think I am right in saying that Jamaica didn't have  national footballing associatin or a national team at that time. I haven't quite worked out who are in the wrong- FIFA who have not fixed the ruling or the FAI who have taken advantage of it. In terms of other nations picking players from other countries- it does happen but in isolated cases e.g Eusiebo was portuguese-mozambique and had no country to play for as a result of Portugal controlling Mozambique.

I would agree with statement this to an extent Semple. However, I don't mind someone like Kevin Kilbane playing for Ireland as he is someone who always sings the Irish National Anthem and has always given 100% in an Irish Jersey. I would object to Kevin Nolan playing for us though because he has been waiting and waiting for England to come calling his whole career IMO. So if he were to suddenly turn around now and say "I want to play for Ireland", I wouldn't be happy.

It's not just Lennon who had to put up with sh*t.  The treatment Anton Rogan got before him was a scandal, and it was because he also played for Celtic.  I think the abuse is mainly targeted at Celtic players rather than Catholics in the main.  Take for example Pat Jennings, he's a catholic and is revered by all football supporters in the north.

As for the 'plastic paddies'.  The north have had their share to.  Maik Taylor was born in Germany to an English father and a German mother, but plays for Northern Ireland.  I can also recall Kevin Wilson playing up front for the north loads of times, and he was English. Jon McCarthy is another one.

Personally, all this playing for countries that you weren't born in has been going on for so long, it doesn't really bother me.

It's not just Lennon who had to put up with sh*t.  The treatment Anton Rogan got before him was a scandal, and it was because he also played for Celtic.  I think the abuse is mainly targeted at Celtic players rather than Catholics in the main.  Take for example Pat Jennings, he's a catholic and is revered by all football supporters in the north.

Only going on what I've heard from people who live in Belfast, Celtic is hated for allowing a former assistant manager to sexually abuse a young lad while the club knew about it. Personally I don't believe it but that's one story I've heard as to why Celtic is hated.

Only going on what I've heard from people who live in Belfast, Celtic is hated for allowing a former assistant manager to sexually abuse a young lad while the club knew about it. Personally I don't believe it but that's one story I've heard as to why Celtic is hated.

I doubt that very much.  Celtic are hated by the majority of Northern Ireland fans, who are protestants, simply because of who they are.  Much in the same way as you wont find too many rangers fans at a Republic of Ireland game, where the supporters are mainly catholics.

I doubt that very much.  Celtic are hated by the majority of Northern Ireland fans, who are protestants, simply because of who they are.  Much in the same way as you wont find too many rangers fans at a Republic of Ireland game, where the supporters are mainly catholics.

Nail on head there Armagh Red.  

Which is why people, without sectarian "baggage", have no time for Scottish football.

The hatred is still there so it is. Personally I hate both Rangers AND Celtic fans because the vast majority of the only do it for religious reasons, and are looking for a fight. The same goes for the idiots who parade around in England tops because they are protestant, just a desperate plea for attention so it is. The fact that you can choose to play for whoever you want is nothing to do with football, it's to do with both the Good Friday and St Andrews agreement which allows any citizen from both countries to have either an Irish or British passport, hence footballers can play for either team. If I were given the choise, I'd most likely choose the Republic as, although the violence and hatred etc. Has clearly toned down per say.... There would always be the abuse of Lennon and the death threats to Keith Gilespie lingering in my head. I still don't take the view that the North is for protestants and the South is for catholics, far from it, I always want to see both teams do well.... Just I personally would feel a bit safer playing for the south as there would not be a target on by back, even if it was a small target now... there will always be those who try and hit it

the death threats to Keith Gilespie lingering in my head.

  What ? That's a new one on me. Did he, like Healy, upset some Celts fans?

As best I know, the only other death threats made to a Northern Ireland player were made to David Healy. Healy, after scoring against  San Marino, last October, said “I am pleased to score, the famine, the drought, whatever people would call it, is over, and am so pleased to be on the scoreboard.” ..... Now, F**k only knows why but, apparently, some bitter arse-wipes took exception to this.

Aye Mags, contrary to what some would have you believe, sectarianism (like racism) can work both ways. Anyone who says any different is either a liar or a retard, i guess. Sad really that ill-reared, bitter F**k-nuggets were allowed to dictate the pace in our country for so long.

Peace lads.

YNWA.

What ? That's a new one on me. Did he, like Healy, upset some Celts fans?

As best I know, the only other death threats made to a Northern Ireland player were made to David Healy. Healy, after scoring against  San Marino, last October, said “I am pleased to score, the famine, the drought, whatever people would call it, is over, and am so pleased to be on the scoreboard.” ..... Now, f**k only knows why but, apparently, some bitter arse-wipes took exception to this.

Aye Mags, contrary to what some would have you believe, sectarianism (like racism) can work both ways. Anyone who says any different is either a liar or a retard, I guess. Sad really that ill-reared, bitter f**k-nuggets were allowed to dictate the pace in our country for so long.

Peace lads.

YNWA.

Yea he got death threats which forced him to retire from international football just because he was Catholic.... Luckily that is behind us now

I doubt that very much.  Celtic are hated by the majority of Northern Ireland fans, who are protestants, simply because of who they are.  Much in the same way as you wont find too many rangers fans at a Republic of Ireland game, where the supporters are mainly catholics.

I know that mate. The fact that Linfield and Rangers' are practically a copy of each other tells a story in itself.

Other theories I've heard as to why Celtic is hated is because at the Old Firm matches Celtic fans never have a Scottish flag just the Republic of Ireland flags. Never paid too much attention to the Old Firm matches so wouldn't really know.