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      Formula 1

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      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5037: Nov 17, 2020 04:08:07 pm
      You dont have personalities that you haven't met that you arent keen on?
      I know that's not true Shabs having seen you on here for years

      You dont have to meet someone to have an opinion on them. You like every footballer? Every politician? Every musician?

      Just something I dont likeabout him, not big deal is it?



      Hey!! I asked a question before Shabs and you haven't  answered  ;D
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5038: Nov 17, 2020 04:20:45 pm
      You dont have personalities that you haven't met that you arent keen on?
      I know that's not true Shabs having seen you on here for years

      You dont have to meet someone to have an opinion on them. You like every footballer? Every politician? Every musician?

      Just something I dont likeabout him, not big deal is it?



      No, but I would have a valid reason not to like them..

      Kopite78
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5039: Nov 17, 2020 04:24:07 pm
      No, but I would have a valid reason not to like them..

      That's makes no sense really. You are ok not to like a sports personality, but I'm not 🤷‍♂️

      I honestly dont know what the big deal is, just someone I'm not keen on.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5040: Nov 17, 2020 04:39:17 pm
      That's makes no sense really. You are ok not to like a sports personality, but I'm not 🤷‍♂️

      I honestly dont know what the big deal is, just someone I'm not keen on.

      You can dislike someone mate, not saying you can’t but normally there is a reason behind it.. that’s all..

      All good though..👍🏼

      I like Lewis the driver, not much I know of his personal life to make an option on that side.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5041: Nov 17, 2020 04:43:11 pm
      You can dislike someone mate, not saying you can’t but normally there is a reason behind it.. that’s all..

      All good though..👍🏼

      I like Lewis the driver, not much I know of his personal life to make an option on that side.

      You see that's the thing, I haven't got an opinion of him as a driver, but I just think hes got a massive ego and comes across as a bit of a pr**k

      You dont have to have a massive ego and be a bit of a pr**k to be successful, look at Sadio or Marcus Rashford, they dont and they come across as sound

      shabbadoo
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5042: Nov 17, 2020 05:07:38 pm
      You see that's the thing, I haven't got an opinion of him as a driver, but I just think hes got a massive ego and comes across as a bit of a pr**k

      You dont have to have a massive ego and be a bit of a pr**k to be successful, look at Sadio or Marcus Rashford, they dont and they come across as sound



      Agree.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5043: Nov 17, 2020 06:33:48 pm
      The evolution of Hamilton has been something to behold.
      Not only at the peak of his powers on track but now using his platform to give a voice to others.

      Whatever you think of his ego, some lazy narrative grasped by people because a black man dared to have confidence,
      Lewis Hamilton is now among the greats of the sport. He was before but now and next season it will be without question.

      Those that refuse to see what's in front of them will hold close the "but the car" argument,
      as if Hamilton's career hasn't been almost identical to Schumacher's.

      The race at the weekend showed his class. Without question.

      Well said racer. That evolution you talk of Lewis as a man is everything. This is a guy who faced some appalling racist abuse from Spanish fans early on in his f1 career for having the temerity to challenge (and beat) Fernando Alonso. The sport did f**k all to the Spanish authorities and Lewis more or less had to keep his head down. His fight for respect and equality for black people is entirely personal and affecting for that reason too. Is he arrogant? Not at all. He is, like the treats before him, confident and assured of his place in the sport.

      I hate 'it's the car' argument as well. As you note, Schumacher was dogged by 'its the car' throughout as well. The best drivers find themselves in the best car. Or in the case of Michael and Lewis, it really is my resolute opinion that the best drivers make the best car.

      Take Michael out of Ferrari and Ferrari would simply not have won those titles in the early 00s. Take Lewis out of Mercedes and they'd never have maintained this dominance. OK, I think they'd have won 2014, Brawn GP style, given the immediate technical advantage they had but there's no way they could have maintained it for so long in the years after without Lewis.

      Truth be told, without either of them I think Ferrari would have been pushed to the very edge of leaving the sport (without Michael) and Mercedes would probably have left without Lewis (even during this amazing dominance their future participation isn't a given)

      Both Schumacher and Hamilton's commitment and loyalty to their team is what sets them apart from the rest in my view. That relationship building within the team is everything and no one has done it better than they did.

      It was mightily impressive the way Lewis maintained and built the relationship with Mercedes and Toto Wolff after 2016 when he felt they they were siding with Rosberg. He never allowed that to become an issue and he sought to rebuild trust and confidence between driver and team so brilliantly to something completely unstoppable.
      « Last Edit: Nov 17, 2020 06:41:45 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5044: Nov 17, 2020 07:04:00 pm
      If it’s the Car & not Lewis then Rosberg would have more than 1 title & Bottas would have been a world champion by now..

      MIRO
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5045: Nov 18, 2020 11:59:40 am
      I detest Alex Scott .

      My Bad .

         ;D
      racerx34
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5046: Nov 18, 2020 12:41:15 pm
      Well said racer. That evolution you talk of Lewis as a man is everything. This is a guy who faced some appalling racist abuse from Spanish fans early on in his f1 career for having the temerity to challenge (and beat) Fernando Alonso. The sport did f**k all to the Spanish authorities and Lewis more or less had to keep his head down. His fight for respect and equality for black people is entirely personal and affecting for that reason too. Is he arrogant? Not at all. He is, like the treats before him, confident and assured of his place in the sport.

      I hate 'it's the car' argument as well. As you note, Schumacher was dogged by 'its the car' throughout as well. The best drivers find themselves in the best car. Or in the case of Michael and Lewis, it really is my resolute opinion that the best drivers make the best car.

      Take Michael out of Ferrari and Ferrari would simply not have won those titles in the early 00s. Take Lewis out of Mercedes and they'd never have maintained this dominance. OK, I think they'd have won 2014, Brawn GP style, given the immediate technical advantage they had but there's no way they could have maintained it for so long in the years after without Lewis.

      Truth be told, without either of them I think Ferrari would have been pushed to the very edge of leaving the sport (without Michael) and Mercedes would probably have left without Lewis (even during this amazing dominance their future participation isn't a given)

      Both Schumacher and Hamilton's commitment and loyalty to their team is what sets them apart from the rest in my view. That relationship building within the team is everything and no one has done it better than they did.

      It was mightily impressive the way Lewis maintained and built the relationship with Mercedes and Toto Wolff after 2016 when he felt they they were siding with Rosberg. He never allowed that to become an issue and he sought to rebuild trust and confidence between driver and team so brilliantly to something completely unstoppable.

      Dominant teams contain within them dominant drivers.
      Hamilton & Toto putting together something not seen since Schumacher & Brawn,
      adding to a base already set by Schumacher & Brawn.

      It's no surprise to see Mercedes so dominant.
      They have built a team with the right people in the right places with a force of nature (well two)
      at the helm. I'd love to know more about how Mercedes operates.
      Whenever they have lost a key component of the team they have seamlessly replaced them.
      Even convincing Ferrari members to leave for them.

      The environment at Mercedes is something akin to what Klopp must have at Liverpool.
      Everyone is on the same page and fighting FOR each other.
      You very seldom see them disagree with each other and when they do it is resolved quickly.
      Mercedes very clearly have Lewis' back in all the BLM / We Race As One issues he's had with the FIA.
      He wouldn't have had that at the likes of Ferrari and he knows it.

      I do wonder how the landscape will shift when Hamilton & Toto walk away.
      2022 will look very different. Ferrari and Red Bull will need to get their respective houses in order for that time.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5047: Nov 18, 2020 02:01:19 pm
      Dominant teams contain within them dominant drivers.
      Hamilton & Toto putting together something not seen since Schumacher & Brawn,
      adding to a base already set by Schumacher & Brawn.

      It's no surprise to see Mercedes so dominant.
      They have built a team with the right people in the right places with a force of nature (well two)
      at the helm. I'd love to know more about how Mercedes operates.
      Whenever they have lost a key component of the team they have seamlessly replaced them.
      Even convincing Ferrari members to leave for them.

      The environment at Mercedes is something akin to what Klopp must have at Liverpool.
      Everyone is on the same page and fighting FOR each other.
      You very seldom see them disagree with each other and when they do it is resolved quickly.
      Mercedes very clearly have Lewis' back in all the BLM / We Race As One issues he's had with the FIA.
      He wouldn't have had that at the likes of Ferrari and he knows it.

      I do wonder how the landscape will shift when Hamilton & Toto walk away.
      2022 will look very different. Ferrari and Red Bull will need to get their respective houses in order for that time.

      Great point. They really do have a knack of getting the right people in. Brawn getting Aldo Costa on board before 2013 was inspired and then the hiring of James Allison is the best technical appointment in f1 since Red Bull got Newey. He really is a genius is Allison.

      And the thing is - both Costa and Allison were chief technical gurus at Ferrari but both left after completely unfulfilling tenures (I know Allison left on tragic personal terms). It really goes to show the appalling management of talent that went on and still goes on at Ferrari and perfectly embodies how the two teams operate.
      racerx34
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5048: Nov 18, 2020 03:14:36 pm
      Great point. They really do have a knack of getting the right people in. Brawn getting Aldo Costa on board before 2013 was inspired and then the hiring of James Allison is the best technical appointment in f1 since Red Bull got Newey. He really is a genius is Allison.

      And the thing is - both Costa and Allison were chief technical gurus at Ferrari but both left after completely unfulfilling tenures (I know Allison left on tragic personal terms). It really goes to show the appalling management of talent that went on and still goes on at Ferrari and perfectly embodies how the two teams operate.

      That's exactly my point.
      Ferrari had the right people in place, but the culture and structure in the team was what stifled them.
      If Ferrari got rid of its blame culture and us vs them nature within the team then there's no reason it couldn't
      have built from 2013 into success. Costa AND Allison. They had/have all the talent in the world.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5049: Nov 18, 2020 06:51:34 pm
      That's exactly my point.
      Ferrari had the right people in place, but the culture and structure in the team was what stifled them.
      If Ferrari got rid of its blame culture and us vs them nature within the team then there's no reason it couldn't
      have built from 2013 into success. Costa AND Allison. They had/have all the talent in the world.

      It's such a shame to see them in this position now. Reading Ross Brawn's insight into how he operated Ferrari and you realise that it was a culture that preceded Brawn and then succeeded him. It's a shame to see his and Schumacher's legacy pretty much wasted.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5050: Nov 26, 2020 08:45:54 pm
      Quote from Keith Singleton
      I don't mind admitting this but got tears in my eyes  :f_wah: ;D ;D

      The mancs are not changing the Gunnar until a year that Lewis Hamilton doesn't win a title with several races to spare.

      It says a lot about the level of competition he's up against, when he's able to start 6th and still win with 30 seconds to spare. He's won the last 4 races by a country mile. That's the state of the sport atm. His admirers call it "brilliance", to everyone else it's just another procession to a world title for the best driver in the best car, well before the end of the season.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5051: Nov 26, 2020 09:01:18 pm
      The mancs are not changing the Gunnar until a year that Lewis Hamilton doesn't win a title with several races to spare.

      It says a lot about the level of competition he's up against, when he's able to start 6th and still win with 30 seconds to spare. He's won the last 4 races by a country mile. That's the state of the sport atm. His admirers call it "brilliance", to everyone else it's just another procession to a world title for the best driver in the best car, well before the end of the season.
      Seriously you haven't a clue what your talking about, bit like the VAR thread. I'm convinced your wumming.  :f_doh:

      Can you tell me why Hamilton has won 7 titles and Bottas none considering there in the same car?
      Can you also tell me why Rosberg only won one title (( which he got very lucky )) when also in the same car as Hamilton.

      Can you tell me why Alonso who's one of the best drivers of his era couldn't beat Hamilton?
      Kopite78
      • Guest
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5052: Nov 26, 2020 09:10:22 pm
      Seriously you haven't a clue what your talking about, bit like the VAR thread. I'm convinced your wumming.  :f_doh:

      Can you tell me why Hamilton has won 7 titles and Bottas none considering there in the same car?
      Can you also tell me why Rosberg only won one title (( which he got very lucky )) when also in the same car as Hamilton.

      Can you tell me why Alonso who's one of the best drivers of his era couldn't beat Hamilton?

      Not a massive fan here so could be wrong (in law loves it mind so pick up bits when he talks about it whilst I try to stay awake)
      But isnt there always a no.1 and no.2 driver? And they drive to team instructions?
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5053: Nov 26, 2020 09:20:41 pm
      Not a massive fan here so could be wrong (in law loves it mind so pick up bits when he talks about it whilst I try to stay awake)
      But isnt there always a no.1 and no.2 driver? And they drive to team instructions?

      Good question.

      In the passed we use to get team orders frequently but not as common now ( but can happen pending tactics or holding your team mate up )
      There's sort of a unwritten rule about having No1 & No2 in the team, all though we know it exists no one admits to it really.
      Kopite78
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5054: Nov 26, 2020 09:30:27 pm
      Good question.

      In the passed we use to get team orders frequently but not as common now ( but can happen pending tactics or holding your team mate up )
      There's sort of a unwritten rule about having No1 & No2 in the team, all though we know it exists no one admits to it really.

      So that could be a large part of the reason hes won all the titles and the no.2 driver in the team didnt  :confused-smiley-013:
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5055: Nov 26, 2020 09:36:18 pm
      So that could be a large part of the reason hes won all the titles and the no.2 driver in the team didnt  :confused-smiley-013:

      Like you say your not a massive fan and fall asleep when it's on.  ;D Best leave it at that.  :D
      Kopite78
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5056: Nov 26, 2020 09:37:10 pm
      Like you say your not a massive fan and fall asleep when it's on.  ;D Best leave it at that.  :D

      But highly logical  ;)
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5057: Nov 26, 2020 09:40:32 pm

      I know you never give up in a debate but I'm not Heimy   :lmao:
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5058: Nov 26, 2020 11:42:17 pm
      Quote from Keith Singleton
      Can you tell me why Hamilton has won 7 titles and Bottas none considering there in the same car?
      Can you also tell me why Rosberg only won one title (( which he got very lucky )) when also in the same car as Hamilton.

      Can you tell me why Alonso who's one of the best drivers of his era couldn't beat Hamilton?

      Bottas is happy to sit there and be a No. 2. His drive in the last race summed up what he is.

      Alonso, the driver you deemed "average" recently, could beat Hamilton and did. As world champion, he demanded No. 1 status though, and when he didn't get it, he walked.

      Rosberg unlike Kovaleinen and Bottas, wasn't happy to be a No. 2, took the challenge to Hamilton in a fair fight, and deserved the title he got. Having achieved what he wanted all his life, he promptly packed it in. That year, the team decided to switch their engineers around, and Hamilton accused the team of stitching him up. If he retired for mechanical failure, he accused his German team of favouring his German teammate over him. Whenever he had contact with other drivers, it was, and still is, their fault. This year, he accused race stewards of trying to "steal" races from him, because he broke the rules. He regularly rants at his engineers during races for daring to have a different opinion about race strategy to his. He can never admit to a mistake of his own doing, and doesn't realise it's not always somebody else's fault on the rare occasion he doesn't coast over the line by half a lap.

      When some drivers, even stewards/organisers questioned the pointless protests held before every race, it was apparantly their fault for not complying with his demands. I thought his political stunt on the podium in Mugello was disgraceful, when he should have been thanking the local medics for doing such a great job in the region, to the extent that the race could be held there at all. But no, his own cause was more important. The message itself failed to have the desired effect. All it achieved was get the sport's bosses to take steps to prevent it happening again.

      I've been watching F1 since the mid-nineties. Back then, every championship went to the wire, as rival drivers spurred each other on to finish first. As a neutral I appreciated that level of competition more than the current era, where the winning driver is known before the lights go out.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5059: Nov 27, 2020 09:41:26 am
      Bottas is happy to sit there and be a No. 2. His drive in the last race summed up what he is.

      Alonso, the driver you deemed "average" recently, could beat Hamilton and did. As world champion, he demanded No. 1 status though, and when he didn't get it, he walked.

      Rosberg unlike Kovaleinen and Bottas, wasn't happy to be a No. 2, took the challenge to Hamilton in a fair fight, and deserved the title he got. Having achieved what he wanted all his life, he promptly packed it in. That year, the team decided to switch their engineers around, and Hamilton accused the team of stitching him up. If he retired for mechanical failure, he accused his German team of favouring his German teammate over him. Whenever he had contact with other drivers, it was, and still is, their fault. This year, he accused race stewards of trying to "steal" races from him, because he broke the rules. He regularly rants at his engineers during races for daring to have a different opinion about race strategy to his. He can never admit to a mistake of his own doing, and doesn't realise it's not always somebody else's fault on the rare occasion he doesn't coast over the line by half a lap.

      When some drivers, even stewards/organisers questioned the pointless protests held before every race, it was apparantly their fault for not complying with his demands. I thought his political stunt on the podium in Mugello was disgraceful, when he should have been thanking the local medics for doing such a great job in the region, to the extent that the race could be held there at all. But no, his own cause was more important. The message itself failed to have the desired effect. All it achieved was get the sport's bosses to take steps to prevent it happening again.

      I've been watching F1 since the mid-nineties. Back then, every championship went to the wire, as rival drivers spurred each other on to finish first. As a neutral I appreciated that level of competition more than the current era, where the winning driver is known before the lights go out.

      No driver excepts being a No 2 even though fans know he is. You only have to look at his frustration after races to know it's killing him Hamilton a class act and no matter what he does he simply can't beat him.

      Your basic argument in your post is what happens off the track?? I'm talking about his driving ability and nothing else. However, I will agree his agenda with some of his antics off the track  ( especially  the one on the podium )  are not excepable and the reason many don't like him just like yourself.

      My statement is about what he does on the track and he's simply in a class of his own. Even if you don't like and take the rose tinted glasses off we both know in this era he goes down as a legend if F1.

      Rise SIR HAMILTON elect

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