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      Formula 1

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      srslfc
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5382: Jul 17, 2021 04:36:06 pm
      What a first lap that was.

      Fernando!!
      srslfc
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5383: Jul 17, 2021 05:00:46 pm
      That was a lot of fun.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5384: Jul 17, 2021 05:03:41 pm

      Was ok........ Better if Hammy won though.  :D
      srslfc
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5385: Jul 17, 2021 05:07:24 pm
      Was ok........ Better if Hammy won though.  :D

      Nah, happy with how it finished. ;D
      srslfc
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5386: Jul 18, 2021 02:03:07 pm
      Was ok........ Better if Hammy won though.  :D

      One thing I would change is just have it as a sprint race with the points

      Quali on the Friday still gets you the grid position for both races.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5387: Jul 18, 2021 06:02:50 pm
      Get in Lewis... start pushing those elbows out more...

      Fantastic win...
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5388: Jul 18, 2021 10:09:11 pm
      Get in Lewis.... Red Bull going OTT with their comments, sour grapes a under statement. Christian saying a hollow victory. Max as per norm too aggressive and expects drivers to get out of his way. Glad Hammy stuck is shoulders out.

      Lewis already backed out of a few moves with Max, sometime he has to hold his ground otherwise he gets walked on. Even commentators have said previously Max basically owned him going round the turns.

      Can't see Max changing his style anytime soon though. Won't be the last altercation between these two great drivers have going round the opening laps of a race.

       :couch:
      PTU
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5389: Jul 18, 2021 10:46:26 pm
      Get in Lewis.... Red Bull going OTT with their comments, sour grapes a under statement. Christian saying a hollow victory. Max as per norm too aggressive and expects drivers to get out of his way. Glad Hammy stuck is shoulders out.

      Lewis already backed out of a few moves with Max, sometime he has to hold his ground otherwise he gets walked on. Even commentators have said previously Max basically owned him going round the turns.

      Can't see Max changing his style anytime soon though. Won't be the last altercation between these two great drivers have going round the opening laps of a race.

       :couch:

      Isn't it funny how none of the Red Bull management mentioned Checo sending Kimi spinning??? Double standards I guess...
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5390: Jul 18, 2021 10:49:27 pm
      Get in Lewis.... Red Bull going OTT with their comments, sour grapes a under statement. Christian saying a hollow victory. Max as per norm too aggressive and expects drivers to get out of his way. Glad Hammy stuck is shoulders out.

      Lewis already backed out of a few moves with Max, sometime he has to hold his ground otherwise he gets walked on. Even commentators have said previously Max basically owned him going round the turns.

      Can't see Max changing his style anytime soon though. Won't be the last altercation between these two great drivers have going round the opening laps of a race.

       :couch:

      Horner almost in tears, his man got owned, Lewis for a few races now has given a Max the space for mo other reason but to avoid a collision as Lewis was homing in on his 7th world title... now challenge accepted by Lewis & going forward the Gloves are off...

      Lewis to retain his title..
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5391: Jul 19, 2021 01:06:08 pm
      Isn't it funny how none of the Red Bull management mentioned Checo sending Kimi spinning??? Double standards I guess...

      Standard isn't it.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5392: Jul 19, 2021 01:13:00 pm
      Horner almost in tears, his man got owned, Lewis for a few races now has given a Max the space for mo other reason but to avoid a collision as Lewis was homing in on his 7th world title... now challenge accepted by Lewis & going forward the Gloves are off...

      Lewis to retain his title..

      Hope your right Shabs. It's fair to say Lewis did look faster than Max/Red Bull  but Silverstone probably favours the Mercs more than any other track. I'm not convinced yet the updates can match Red Bull.

      I used to like Horner but his comments were unjust. Being the first lap was more a racing incident than anything else. As we've seen many times it doesn't take much for Max to lose the plot anyway.  :lmao:

      You could argue Max owned Lewis at the starts this season but this was Lewis saying right!! Shoulders out bring it on.  :D
      therealjr
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5393: Jul 19, 2021 05:24:10 pm
      So are you both saying the stewards got it wrong?
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5394: Jul 19, 2021 06:11:29 pm
      So are you both saying the stewards got it wrong?

      I thought is was harsh. Some of the expects say racing incident, some say penalty was deserved. What was most certainly wrong was Red Bull saying Lewis should be banned from the next race.

      Hungary will favour Red Bull anyway. If Mercs run well there could blow the championship wide open again. 
      PTU
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5395: Jul 19, 2021 06:56:16 pm
      So are you both saying the stewards got it wrong?

      For me, Lewis is mostly at fault, but they both share the blame (I'd say it's 60-40%). Lewis most definitely didn't crash into Max on purpose, as some have implied. The 10s penalty probably means the stewards reached a similar conclusion.

      I believe Max is just used to getting his way, bullying other drivers with his aggressive style. He tried to force Lewis to back down, the same way he's done all season. His gamble just didn't pay off this time. But ultimately, it was just a racing incident.

      For reference, I think Ricciardo's take on the incident was spot on:
      When you’re in such a high-speed corner and just side-by-side, you’re both going to lose aero, particularly Lewis there with Max kind of in a little bit of dirty air. But I think they were both going in hot.
      Ultimately Lewis went in too hot for the for the given level of grip and that’s where you see [he] just drifted up into Max. Completely unintentional, but just the nature of the aero on these cars and [you] just have to allow a little more, but I’m certainly not going to sit here and judge and say he should have done that or that.

      lfc across the water
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5396: Jul 19, 2021 07:38:57 pm
      Quote from srslfc
      That was a lot of fun.

      The reaction to the new format, (and it will be permanent next year) was summed up in one of two camps.

      Hamilton fans: Bin it/boring
      Everyone else: Bring it on.

      BBC/Sky also seemed upset because Hamilton didn't retain his pole in the sprint. Sky were gushing about it beforehand. Then Hamilton lost it and then they started questioning the point of it. But it's good to bring a competitive element to Friday, even if all it gets you is a provisional pole position. Once Max had passed Hamilton cleanly, the sprint itself was processional. It would probably work better at somewhere like Spa where there are multiple overtaking areas and a weather factor. But I wouldn't give up on it after just one race.

      Hamilton went on to win the race as usual, and after 4 failed attempts to pass Verstappen cleanly during the first lap of both races, he took him out at the 5th attempt to make sure he won his home race. If he wins nothing else this year, he can still say he won his home race. So he got his 25 points, and took a full 15 minutes this year from crossing the finish line to get on the podium, leaving the other podium finishers standing around in parc fermé, waiting for him.

      Verstappen's style makes him the driver he is and gives him the fanbase he has. If you want to beat Lewis, then you have to be aggressive, even if you risk him punting you off the track at 150mph. You certainly won't beat him by just jumping out of his way, as Bottas and the rest of them do. Red Bull only scored 3 points from the weekend in the sprint qualifying session, but Hungaroring is similiar to Monaco and should suit their car better.
      PTU
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5397: Jul 19, 2021 08:15:37 pm
      The reaction to the new format, (and it will be permanent next year) was summed up in one of two camps.

      Hamilton fans: Bin it/boring
      Everyone else: Bring it on.

      BBC/Sky also seemed upset because Hamilton didn't retain his pole in the sprint. Sky were gushing about it beforehand. Then Hamilton lost it and then they started questioning the point of it. But it's good to bring a competitive element to Friday, even if all it gets you is a provisional pole position. Once Max had passed Hamilton cleanly, the sprint itself was processional. It would probably work better at somewhere like Spa where there are multiple overtaking areas and a weather factor. But I wouldn't give up on it after just one race.

      Personally, I think the format could work but it needs to be improved. It didn't feel like a "sprint" race, mostly because the drivers had more to lose than to gain, so it was all about risk management. Perhaps additional points to raise the stakes?

      Your point is valid: Silverstone was probably not the best place to try it out. Monza, China, Spa would work better I think.
      racerx34
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5398: Jul 22, 2021 11:30:17 am
      New format is great for people attending a GP for the weekend.
      Quali - Friday
      Sprint - Saturday
      Race - Sunday

      Nightmare for statiticians when pole is no longer pole and a race win isn't a feature race win.
      Also Max is the first driver in history to DNF but to score points.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5399: Jul 22, 2021 01:29:15 pm
      I was there all three days. Aside from the sunburn and roasting temperatures, it was quite simply one of the best experiences of my life!

      We were in the grandstands overlooking Maggots and Becketts for Friday qualifying where the atmosphere was sensational. The support for Norris and Russell was off the scale. The cheers for Russell when he slammed in that quali lap to get into the top 10 was phenomenal! And then Lewis put it on 'pole' to more cheers. A great spot to watch f1 cars at their speediest.

      As for the race? Incredible. The first 30/40 seconds was sheer bedlam what with Max and Lewis going wheel to wheel. Me and my brother were watching from Club corner so the two were on the other side of the track when they came together. Don't believe what the tweeters say, no one was 'cheering' when Max slammed into the tyres. There were gasps and screams of disbelief when it happened but no one was celebrating. I was dismayed that Lewis got a penalty. That was a racing incident if there ever was one. There's an arrogance to Max's racing that I love. I love that he will not give an inch and his do or die wheel to wheel racing. But eventually, there will be one occasion where the opposite driver will refuse to pull out. You can't always expect to take a corner pretending that your opponent isn't there. He knew Lewis was going to be there yet still took it. If anything the blame lies with him. But when you get winded and Red Bull deploy an aggressive media strategy on Lewis (which was disgusting and very much poured fuel on the racist abuse Lewis subsequently received) then the FIA subconsciously feel pressurised to look at the other side.

      The sprint quali? Jury remains out on that but its success only depends on how good the racing is. Naturally there will be a more conservative element to it than Sunday. That said, Alonso was a star in that race and the quiet star of the GP. Away from the dramas of Max and Lewis, he was driver of the weekend. A master! No harm in having it two or three times a season, but no need to replace our current quali format. Why? Because as Friday showed, that format is utterly perfect.
      « Last Edit: Jul 22, 2021 01:35:46 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5400: Jul 22, 2021 11:51:44 pm
      Quote from PTU
      For me, Lewis is mostly at fault, but they both share the blame (I'd say it's 60-40%). Lewis most definitely didn't crash into Max on purpose, as some have implied. The 10s penalty probably means the stewards reached a similar conclusion.

      I believe Max is just used to getting his way, bullying other drivers with his aggressive style. He tried to force Lewis to back down, the same way he's done all season. His gamble just didn't pay off this time. But ultimately, it was just a racing incident

      I watched the first lap live on Leclerc's on board camera and he got a perfect view of all the action in front of him. Years ago, it was a racing incident with no consequences. Nowadays, it's an automatic 5 second penalty minimum. The severity of the impact is probably why it was 10 seconds.

      Quote from Frankly, Mr Shankly
      I was dismayed that Lewis got a penalty. That was a racing incident if there ever was one. There's an arrogance to Max's racing that I love. I love that he will not give an inch and his do or die wheel to wheel racing. But eventually, there will be one occasion where the opposite driver will refuse to pull out. You can't always expect to take a corner pretending that your opponent isn't there. He knew Lewis was going to be there yet still took it. If anything the blame lies with him.

      The sprint quali? Jury remains out on that but No harm in having it two or three times a season, but no need to replace our current quali format. Why? Because as Friday showed, that format is utterly perfect.

      It's perfect for you when Hamilton gets it. There's nothing wrong with the format itself, it's the lack of competitive action on a Friday that is the main issue. To solve that, they brought in sprint qualifying. Unless a better solution can be found, I think it's going to be permanent from next year. Provisional pole after qualifying, pole position after the sprint. Sprint races are already routine in other formulas during the race weekend, even in Monaco. Now they've come to Formula 1.

      A racing incident means either both drivers are equally responsible for it or neither are. It's no defence for a driver to argue he won't back down. You have no right to put yourself, other drivers, marshalls, or fans at risk, as well as damage your own car, just to make sure you win your home race, and that is what it was all about imo. He just couldn't accept losing his home race in front of his home fans, so when he couldn't overtake him cleanly, he launched a desperate now or never move against a fellow driver and took him out. In our sport it would be deemed a professional foul. The stewards gave him the automatic penalty that goes with it, and added another 5 seconds on top of it. He was lucky he didn't get points on his licence as well, because other drivers have for less.

      Usually when a driver has been taken to hospital, the winner drives the race distance, gets out of the car asap, and your first priority is to find out how he is. Not Hamilton though, he had flags to wave and engineers to congratulate first. He later refused to apologise either, just blamed Verstappen for being too aggressive. Of course Verstappen is aggressive, he hasn't got as far as he has by just letting drivers past him, and he won't change nor should he. If he did, he would become as slow as Jos Verstappen used to be.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5401: Jul 23, 2021 12:38:12 am
      I watched the first lap live on Leclerc's on board camera and he got a perfect view of all the action in front of him. Years ago, it was a racing incident with no consequences. Nowadays, it's an automatic 5 second penalty minimum. The severity of the impact is probably why it was 10 seconds.

      It's perfect for you when Hamilton gets it. There's nothing wrong with the format itself, it's the lack of competitive action on a Friday that is the main issue. To solve that, they brought in sprint qualifying. Unless a better solution can be found, I think it's going to be permanent from next year. Provisional pole after qualifying, pole position after the sprint. Sprint races are already routine in other formulas during the race weekend, even in Monaco. Now they've come to Formula 1.

      A racing incident means either both drivers are equally responsible for it or neither are. It's no defence for a driver to argue he won't back down. You have no right to put yourself, other drivers, marshalls, or fans at risk, as well as damage your own car, just to make sure you win your home race, and that is what it was all about imo. He just couldn't accept losing his home race in front of his home fans, so when he couldn't overtake him cleanly, he launched a desperate now or never move against a fellow driver and took him out. In our sport it would be deemed a professional foul. The stewards gave him the automatic penalty that goes with it, and added another 5 seconds on top of it. He was lucky he didn't get points on his licence as well, because other drivers have for less.

      Usually when a driver has been taken to hospital, the winner drives the race distance, gets out of the car asap, and your first priority is to find out how he is. Not Hamilton though, he had flags to wave and engineers to congratulate first. He later refused to apologise either, just blamed Verstappen for being too aggressive. Of course Verstappen is aggressive, he hasn't got as far as he has by just letting drivers past him, and he won't change nor should he. If he did, he would become as slow as Jos Verstappen used to be.

      Another bloated ramble. We get it - you don't like Lewis Hamilton. No need to bore us with your hyperbolic nonsense.
      « Last Edit: Jul 23, 2021 12:53:31 am by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5402: Jul 23, 2021 10:23:08 am
      Another bloated ramble. We get it - you don't like Lewis Hamilton. No need to bore us with your hyperbolic nonsense.

      Thank Christ I only read his rose tinted post when quoted by others. It appears we now have VAR in F1 reading his comments.  :lmao:

      I remember one of his post in the VAR thread where he accused McTominay of serious foul play when the hair on his arms touched Sons face.  ;D  Nothing changes with him. BLINKERED a understatement with this lad.  :f_doh:
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5403: Jul 23, 2021 03:11:52 pm
      Another bloated ramble. We get it - you don't like Lewis Hamilton. No need to bore us with your hyperbolic nonsense.

      It will be war crimes next.  ;)
      srslfc
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      Re: Formula 1
      Reply #5404: Jul 23, 2021 03:26:22 pm
      I'm a huge Max fan but the whole Red Bull operation doesn't help itself at times.

      Nothing more than a racing incident for me and Max would have done exactly the same if not more.

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