Mascherano - Are we getting excited too early?

Just a  point I want to clear up, as it's been winding me up for a couple of days now.

Javier Mascherano.

Yes he had a very good game on Saturday, but it was his third game FFS. People on here are saying we should sell Alonso as we don't need him anymore, putting Javier down as the first name on the team sheet, and generally getting too excited about the lad. Yes, he seems to have a lot of potential, but until I see performances like Saturday's week in week out I'm not gonna go OTT & start singing from the rooftops about him. I can be perfectly honest here, and I think most people if they were honest would have to say the same. Last year I'd heard of a player called Mascherano, but couldn't tell you anything about him. I saw this lad in the World Cup, where he had a blinder, and the press said this is hopw he plays at club level. As I don't watch the Brazilian league I had to take their word for it. He then signed for West Ham, along with his friend Mr Tevez, and I thought 'I don't know how the f#ck they've managed it, but they've got a lovely deal there'. Since then he has done sweet FA. People will point to his lack of playing time, but Pardew & Curbishley are both good managers, if he was impressing that much in training he would've been in the team.

So why do people keep banging on about him so much? Is it because he had a good World Cup (5 games)? Or because the press told you he's good? Or maybe it's cos he's good on Championship Manager?

Don't take this as a major criticism of Mascherano, I do believe he can be a good player, and I'm encouraged by his performances in a red shirt so far. I just can't understand people saying things like 'Now we've got Mascherano who shall we sell?'. Personally I will need to see a lot more proof of his talent & suitability before I start making statements like that.

P.S. I also feel the same way about Tevez, did well in Brazil by all accounts, yet to prove himself over here, doesn't deserve the plaudits he's getting on this forum.

Even if you reserved are making sense you cannot denied that  playing for Argentina he can't be that bad!! You mentionned 5 games for the world cup but he is an international since 2003 with 20 selections so far and coming back to the world cup he played every minutes of every games at 23 years old.

I can't remember any south americans players making a impact in any team on his first season in the premiership. People are saying to sell Xabi because Xabi has been here long a long time, it might be unfair but it is also unfair to compared these 2 players before Mascherano played a full season for us.

Mascherano is class, there is not doubt about that, as is Xabi only time will tell..

Mate we don't need to say it again, Mascherano played well for Corintians and so much hype, the hype was true as he was at the heart of the Argentinian midfield which was the best midfield i've ever seen. Masch has played very well for us seeing that he is very match unfit so he can only get better even though he has been our best CM player in every game he's played for us. He is like Makelele so you won't notice him but honestly he is better than Xabi Alonso. I think i've seen enough of Mascherano's game already to judge and compare him to Xabi

Cy sorry to be fussy but he is only 22 not 23

As I said in my original post, I don't think he's a bad player, I just feel people are jumping on the bandwagon far too soon. Remember a certain El Hadji Diouf? Was getting rave reviews in France, had a great World Cup & a great first few games for LFC. Who rates him now?

As I said in my original post, I don't think he's a bad player, I just feel people are jumping on the bandwagon far too soon. Remember a certain El Hadji Diouf? Was getting rave reviews in France, had a great World Cup & a great first few games for LFC. Who rates him now?

There is a difference between Senegal and Argentina, Mascherano is in a different role strikers have more pressure to produce the goods

Mascherano played well for Corintians

Did you see him play for them? If you did, then fair play. The suggestion I made originally was that I don't really believe any of us have seen a lot of him (with the exception of those who watch the Brazilian league). I personally will never take what the press say as gospel, I like to make my own opinion. If I believed the press' view of players I'd think Frank Lampard was class FFS.

eddie c i'm in total agreement with you, the who shall we sell thread was uncalled for why sell alonso Zenden should go ! surely we are a better team with xabi in it, a stronger squad with xabi and masch. but i have watched a lot of copa libertadores and campeonato brasilero and was deeply impressed with Masch's composure, distribution and takelling.(sic) He's a proven international at 22. and we got him relatively cheap.

I think its channel 5 at night watch that and they bring you football from around the globe. Didn't see much of Mascherano but I'm going to belive Maradonna words along with Rafa's! maradonna claimed him to be a monster of a player at the age of 19 and he said he was the finest young player in the world which I can only agree with such a legend

I'm sorry, but Maradona talks up every Argentinian player. Right back from when he was sayin Ariel Ortega was going to be the 'New him' onto the next 'New him', Riquelme, and the next one, Messi, and finally the latest 'New Maradona' Sergio Aguero.

Let me ask everyone on here a question.

Who can honestly say they have seen Javier Mascherano play more than 20 times? I don't mean read match reports, I don't mean seen highlights, I mean actually watched him play, either live or on TV.

The simple point I am trying to make with this thread is that if you haven't seen him play enough you can't have a full & rounded opinion of him. You can quote other peoples opinions, but you haven't seen enough with your own eyes yet. The problem with other peoples opinions is they won't always match your own. I mentioned Frank Lampard in my last post, imagine if you had never seen him play, all you'd done is read the press reports on him. You would think he's the greatest player in the world. As it is, many people on here, myself included, don't rate him as much as the press.

Like I stated originally, this is not a thread to slate Mascherano, personally I feel all the signs so far have been encouraging. Comments like 'the future looks bright' or 'if he keeps this up he's gonna be a first team regular' are more than justified. But remarks like 'who should we sell now we have Mascherano?' or saying he's better than Alonso? Far too early IMO.

There is a difference between Senegal and Argentina, Mascherano is in a different role strikers have more pressure to produce the goods

Ok then, Juan Sebastian Veron. I know he was quite a bit older when he came to the premiership, but similarly he was a midfielder, Argentinian, and rated as one of the best in the world. I re-iterate once again, this thread isn't to question Mascherano's pedigree, more to question if we're jumping the gun getting so excited so soon.

The thing is Eddie your a football fan but Maradona was a professional football player, possibly the best the world has ever seen so i know who I'd rather believe when it comes to bigging up players. As for Riquelme he is one of the greatest playmakers in modern football, Messi is 19 years old and scoring hatricks against Real Madrid etc nothing to prove at that age which is unbelievable and Aguero has started brightly for Athletico Madrid he will again be a top player.

We don't need to watch him play 20 times to say he's great, if Maradona has seen him play 20 times and said he's great then I'm going to belive that because he will know more than me.

As for Veron he was a light weight, very teqnical player who needs time on the ball, compare that with Mascherano who is a Makelele type player with hard tackling, good under pressure and a brilliant passer with good vision everything that suits the Prem.. need i say no more!

Good point Eddie, but I do believe Rafa knows all we need to know about him.

From what I read a while ago in the Echo, Rafa had a 4 hour meeting with Javier to discuss a possible move to the Mighty Reds.
Rafa went through in great detail about his games for Argentina and Corintians, explaining where he went wrong in the bad games he had.
Now if a manager nows that much detail about a player, then that's good enough for me.

Yes he's played well in the few games he's played, yes he's still to prove himself and live up to the hype going around but I for one have faith in the player.
and personnaly, on a different note, I wouldn't want to sell any of our CM's.

I have faith in the player too. TBH I'm 90% certain he will turn out to be just as good as everyone says he will be, but there is a big difference between believing he is GOING TO BE that good, and believing he IS that good. Personally I feel I can only say he IS that good when I've seen it with my own eyes, not because someone else has told me. I have faith in Rafa's decision making, but even he must have had some reservations to want a loan deal rather than a permanent transfer?

P.S. I'm going to change the topic title, looking at it now I feel 'why all the hype?' is unfair, he justifies the hype. I will change it to 'Are we getting excited too early?'

Totally agree with EddieC on this one, also what I find funny is that fact that we dont actually even own him as he's on loan (18months) so people are goin way over the top by saying he's the best thing since sliced bread!!

He has one good game for us.

I agree that Maradona’s opinion doesn't count for much these days as he is usually off his nut sticking one thing or another up his nose, and its usually not Vick (allegedly!) but to then state that you have to have seen a player kick a ball in a certain amount of games to have an opinion on him is daft, not all media is as shoddy as the British press and you can sometimes gain a lot of insight into a players ability as a result of trawling the internet or buying World football magazines.
I agree totally Eddie with your point regarding Frank Lamplard as the media in this country have built him up to such an iconic status that he actually believes he should start every England game and he then chucks his pork pie out the pram when McClaren finally has laser treatment and sees the pudding for what he is, a half decent player nothing more nothing less.I like what I have read about Mascherano and I also like what I have seen so far, and yes he is a different sort of player to Alonso in the fact that he looks a lot more defensively minded, he gives short sharp passes in between busily trying to break up the opponents attack, and for me he looks a lot more mobile than Xabi thus allowing an attacking midfielder to break forward with the confidence that the back four are protected.

Now to be honest I could also apply a lot of Javier's attributes to Sissoko as well as I think he tries to play a similar sort of game but for me the same cannot be said of Alonso who although lacking some of the skills the other two have has something that should always get him a possible starting place, its his vision its exceptional and his long passing game and his ability with a through ball pass is second to none. At the moment it's a bit premature to be hailing Mascherano as the next best thing and I for one don't think he is better than one player or another yet! So in my opinion we shouldn't really be looking to sell anyone from centre midfield positions at the moment but I also think Rafa has pulled a masterstroke in picking up Mascherano even if I have only seen him play in ten games or so and that could mean one of the others i am sorry to say departing of there own accord.

I know Masherano as a player since three years ago when a couple of great Italian teams did try to sign him, then I saw him with Argentina shirt and I really did think he could get the fortune of every club. I like to remember that Mohurino tried to land mascherano and Tevez to Chelsea. The result was a year parkin in West Ham because Abramovich did prefer Ballack and Sheva. Well now we have the man loved by Mouhrino for his team. Isn't good enough? Well I think he can get more improving than Xabi,he's more quite as a man, more reflex more idea. Xabi for sure has a brilliant long ball. If the future will see the selling of Xabi for reach Et'o I think could be fantastic. Sorry Xabi but this year you've got so many trouble and LFC needs more ..... 

most definately not after tonight, what a star !

Xabi I like him, am another style

"Mascherano - Are we getting excited too early?"  nope

Totally agree with EddieC on this one, also what I find funny is that fact that we dont actually even own him as he's on loan (18months) so people are goin way over the top by saying he's the best thing since sliced bread!!

He has one good game for us.

Once loan move becomes permanent,then we can say whatever, but from what I've seen so far... Rafa's da man!!
I can't see him letting a player Masch go.

I agree that on current form Mascherano is looking good. I tried to reserve judgement a little longer but I have to agree with his plaudits,  He cetainly looks quality, BUT !! What about when he hits a poor spell, every one does. we don't need to sell just because he's looking good now. That's the point of having a squad with quality in depth! We need to keep our better players, look how easy it is to get injured, Aurellio tonight for instance, Momo a few months ago. Two seasons ago we had 10 1st team players in the treatment room at the same time, thats what we need to cover against.

got to aree with you gerns. Plenty of room for all 4 CM players in the squad

Excellent topic Ed, I have been impressed with the player since he signed.  Rafa's no mug either - he tends to know what he's doing with central midfielders.

I saw the guy at the World cup and he was superb.  That was the first time I had heard of him.

With regards to West Ham, he was clearly not playing for 'non-footballing' reasons.  Maybe why West Ham are currently under investigation for the deal.  Something other than football was involved there.  Because he would obviously be one of West Ham's best players.  They are facing relegation remember.

A lot of talk has focussed on interest in both Alonso and Sissoko, Alonso especially making noises about a 'return home'.   I would personally love to keep all four... BUT... if we get a pair of sh*t hot wingers, world class wingers, then it is entirely possible that it may not be able to keep 4 central midfielders happy enough through rotation - especially when one name (Gerrard) is nearly always going to be on the team sheet.

I think some of the threads have focussed on ... IF WE HAD TO.. which midfielder would be the least biggest loss.  Could we keep hold of four world class centre-backs for instance? You know we couldn't.