Sunderland 1-0 Liverpool - Post Match Meltdown

He's been there 6 years actually and nobody can argue that 60% of his signings have been garbage

Wrong, came in the summer of 2004, that makes it five years and three months.

So who do you want as manager then?

He's been there 6 years actually and nobody can argue that 60% of his signings have been garbage

60% your a muppet.60% of your posts have been garbage

People are completely taking what I said the wrong way.  I NEVER said the owners were not to blame, its public knowledge that there Sh*te owners.

What I said (and its my opinion and I believe everybody is entitled to that) is that the owners cannot be blamed for our league position. He's made some poor signings and had 6 seasons to build a title winning team - 4 of them before the owners came in.

So everybody stop f**king critising me and just respect different opinions

No we aint, you are saying what you are saying you aren't saying. Make sense?

You are blaming Rafa for the sh*te in our squad! Well half that sh*te was meant to be good and im sure as sh*t if we hadn't picked up Babel he could have ended up at the Gooners or the Chavs, he was the next Henry at one point, according to the press. The other half has been out of necessity to a point, as he has been torn between quality and the fact he needs to have some depth as well, I feel.

The onus is on the owners for 99% I feel.

And I still want to see your list of 50 players at least and reasons as to why they are sh*te and also why it is Rafa's fault.

He's been there 6 years actually and nobody can argue that 60% of his signings have been garbage

He joined in the summer of 2004.  So 'actually' you're wrong.

Rafa's spent about £100M, and in fact in the last two years Benitez has 'spent' about £22M.  

Do you think any manager in the world could be handed £11M a season and turn us in to title winners? I very very much doubt it.

too easy to blame the owners. we all know what sort of people they are and how badly they are doing but all the same. its the players who go out on the pitch and today there was not enough quality and commitment.

in fairness to the players it must be difficult to put on a good show when the whole shape of the team is completely foreign to them. we've seen this plenty of times before....Rafa comes up with some outlandish team selection and the players can't make it work.

to my mind this one is down to Rafa. i'm not criticising him by the way, i am sure he thought it was a reasonable way to go, but it didn't work and he has to take the bulk of the responsibility.

i would have preferred to see a simple like-for-like replacement of Gerrard and Torres with Yossi and Babel (or Voronin at a pinch) and leave the shape of the team as normal. mind you, you can see Rafa's problem...since Xabi left there is not much strength in the middle without Stevie so he is kind of fu**ed whichever way he goes.

so lets blame the Yanks but acknowledge that Rafa is somewhat culpable too.

He's been there 6 years actually and nobody can argue that 60% of his signings have been garbage

August 2004 to august 2009 is 5 years not 6.How many players does your expert knowledge tell you that  have cost more than £20mil in his 5 years.
Do you think a side wanting to win the league and the CL  can do it by paying £10mil for players. When you have a Championship winning side you can afford to make slight adjusts each year by adding quality rather than quantity, Rafa hasnt had that luxury yet.

Raffas bigger signings seem to be sucsesfull Torres, Alonso, Mash to name but a few the problem seems to be with his cheaper buys were he has his problems

Raffas bigger signings seem to be sucsesfull Torres, Alonso, Mash to name but a few the problem seems to be with his cheaper buys were he has his problems

But you have to ask at times why he has had to go with cheaper buys.

And I still want to see your list of 50 players at least and reasons as to why they are sh*te and also why it is Rafa's fault.

I think we could be waiting a while for his list of players cos he is now on the "Is Rafa the right man" thread bashing him on there!! What a d*ck!

But you have to ask at times why he has had to go with cheaper buys.

For shits and giggles according to TheFella - and trust me, that fella knows his stuff.

The cheaper buys are the squad players. Problem is, squad players actually need to be able to come on and turn the game around at our level. We don't really have anybody that you can put faith into to do that regularly.

I think we could be waiting a while for his list of players cos he is now on the "Is Rafa the right man" thread bashing him on there!! What a d*ck!

I want to see that list though.

And he actually said "I'm sticking up for the owners"

What the?!?!

Name me a manager who never got it wrong when signing a new player? Fergie also has his history of signing crap players like Saha, Djemba Djemba, Bellion and Kleberson. But I guess the biggest flops belongs to Chelsea with two over 20 million signings of Shevcenko and Hernan Crespo and also picking garbage Veron from Manure. I can give you some more like Tiago or Paulo Ferreira but it's too obvious not to see it.

A garbage player for me is when you spend big for a player but he give s**t in games. That's what Crespo and Sheva did in Chelsea. You can blame Rafa if he got a kitty big as City and spend hastily on crap players. Tell me, how much per season did Rafa get not including from selling players. I don't see other big teams in any league has to sell their main players to buy another player. That's why I said Rafa is a manager of a great club but having to spend like a skint club. Do you think Valencia are that stupid to let go Villa for 20 million and I guess that's what Liverpool max spending per season. Or even Madrid tempted to let go Aguero with that kind of money?

For shits and giggles according to TheFella - and trust me, that fella knows his stuff.

The cheaper buys are the squad players. Problem is, squad players actually need to be able to come on and turn the game around at our level. We don't really have anybody that you can put faith into to do that regularly.

I know you bolster your squad with squad players, but there have been times when Rafa has had players lined up and had the rug pulled from under his feet and had to opt for cheaper options. Dani Alves/Jermaine Pennant being a case in point.

He was in for Florent Malouda to until Chelsea came in with a bigger offer. Case in point right there.

Simao another case. I heard he was already on the way to Liverpool when Parry pulled the plug because Benfica demanded a bit higher. Or Wright-Phillips when Mourinho overpowered us when he spent more than we could to tempt him over to the Bridge.

For shits and giggles according to TheFella - and trust me, that fella knows his stuff.

The cheaper buys are the squad players. Problem is, squad players actually need to be able to come on and turn the game around at our level. We don't really have anybody that you can put faith into to do that regularly.

i just found out the fellas identity he's my housemate in college he just told me there, his name is Darragh Queally and his student email is 0863386@studentmail.ul.ie for shits and giggles we should all give him a shout even if its a blank message im sure he'd appreciate it

Simao another case. I heard he was already on the way to Liverpool when Parry pulled the plug because Benfica demanded a bit higher. Or Wright-Phillips when Mourinho overpowered us when he spent more than we could to tempt him over to the Bridge.

Exactly. Malouda & Simao would have gone down well eh, and im sure our Rafa haters would have loved them. And Wright-Phillips, well he could go down as a failure for the so called "Special One" so Rafa aint alone in that.

Shortened list...

So - are we stronger now than we were over 5 years ago? Anyone get their head out of their arse long enough to say yes or no?

Remember - SG, Carra and Hyppia were there when he arrived.

Yeah, the current owners are nonces but Rafa has had money, he's spent alot, but is the squad stronger...

Antonio Nunez
Mauricio Pellegrino
Fernando Morientes £6M
Antonio Barragan
Boudewijn Zenden
Mohamed Sissoko £6M
Mark Gonzalez
Jan Kromkamp
Craig Bellamy £6M
Gabriel Paletta
Jermaine Pennant £7M
Nabil El Zhar
Álvaro Arbeloa £3M
Lucas Leiva £5M
Krisztián Németh
Sebastian Leto
Andriy Voronin
Ryan Babel Ajax £11M
Charles Itandje
Philipp Degen
Andrea Dossena £7M
David N'gog
Robbie Keane Tottenham £20
Albert Riera Espanyol £8
Glen Johnson Portsmouth £18
Alberto Aquilani AS Roma £17 (not played)
Sotirios Kyrgiakos
Daniel Ayala

Antonio Nunez -Yes
Mauricio Pellegrino -Yes
Fernando Morientes £6M-Yes
Antonio Barragan-Yes
Boudewijn Zenden-No we got him cheap
Mohamed Sissoko £6M-No we made a profit on him
Mark Gonzalez -yes
Jan Kromkamp-yes
Craig Bellamy £6M-no
Gabriel Paletta-yes
Jermaine Pennant £7M-yes
Nabil El Zhar-no
Álvaro Arbeloa £3M Definetly no
Lucas Leiva £5M-no
Krisztián Németh -possibly our biggest potential
Sebastian Leto -no
Andriy Voronin-got him for free i think doesnt count
Ryan Babel Ajax £11M- shoulg give up footy and become a rapper
Charles Itandje- yes
Philipp Degen-?
Andrea Dossena £7M-yes
David N'gog-watch the reserves he's got potential
Robbie Keane Tottenham £20-we got our money back only paid 13 of that 20 anyway
Albert Riera Espanyol £8 no
Glen Johnson Portsmouth £18
Alberto Aquilani AS Roma £17 (not played)
Sotirios Kyrgiakos no
Daniel Ayala no

i pretty sure that was not a shortened list but a full one go on give us the full list some ridiculous names on there Kyrgiakos has only played 1 game,and Aqualiani hasnt even played yet

Rafa is the right man, who else can take over as of tomorrow that is better than Rafa. Sure I don't agree with every move he makes but I'm sure he understand the game a lot better than I do.

Is this the list that you believe is Rafa's fault and that he should have known better? Because if so, first off no where near 50 that the other guy said. Second, not all are warranted to be there.

Anyways if this is going to keep going i think it needs to be somewhere else, going a little off topic from the point of this thread which is post match discussion.

Shortened list...

So - are we stronger now than we were over 5 years ago? Anyone get their head out of their arse long enough to say yes or no?

Remember - SG, Carra and Hyppia were there when he arrived.

Yeah, the current owners are nonces but Rafa has had money, he's spent alot, but is the squad stronger...

Antonio Nunez
Mauricio Pellegrino
Fernando Morientes £6M
Antonio Barragan
Boudewijn Zenden
Mohamed Sissoko £6M
Mark Gonzalez
Jan Kromkamp
Craig Bellamy £6M
Gabriel Paletta
Jermaine Pennant £7M
Nabil El Zhar
Álvaro Arbeloa £3M
Lucas Leiva £5M
Krisztián Németh
Sebastian Leto
Andriy Voronin
Ryan Babel Ajax £11M
Charles Itandje
Philipp Degen
Andrea Dossena £7M
David N'gog
Robbie Keane Tottenham £20
Albert Riera Espanyol £8
Glen Johnson Portsmouth £18
Alberto Aquilani AS Roma £17 (not played)
Sotirios Kyrgiakos
Daniel Ayala

Yes we are, 5 years ago we had players like Diao, Diouf, Traore, Cheyrou (the next Zidane), Mellor, Pongolle, Le Tallec. Are you trying to say that Glen Johnson is a bad buy? or Aquilani? or Ayala? or Nemeth?

Go through your list and see how much money he has recouped by selling some of them on?

F***ing c**t whoever put the beachball on to the pitch, showed who it was on SSN. Anyone know him and can name him?

Haven't actually seen the game bar about a few minutes as of yet but from what I have heard/read the only real positives are Agger making his comeback from injury and Spearing getting to start.