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      The Old Firm.

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      danny8t4
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      The Old Firm.
      Oct 04, 2009 12:48:39 pm
      I couldn't find a thread for discussion between the 2 teams.

      I currently live just outside Glasgow and I can feel the tension between the fans for weeks before the game and today the 2 meet again.

      This game is one of the biggest derbies in European football and I've experienced it which is amazing.

      15 minutes gone and Rangers are 2-0 up with Kenny Miller getting both with real strikers finishes.



      danny8t4
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #1: Oct 04, 2009 12:54:00 pm
      24 Minutes gone and 2-1. Mcgeady from the pen spot.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #2: Oct 07, 2009 03:24:58 pm
      Cowardly Rangers turn a blind eye to bigotry
      By Graham Spiers

      Following Sunday's Old Firm game at Ibrox I find myself with a highly unusual dilemma on my hands, which is this: should a journalist report a supporter for indulging in bigoted or racist chanting?

      Since the tousy affair at Ibrox, which Rangers won 2-1, I have received a number of e-mails from people after I mentioned in my column yesterday in The Times that a Rangers supporter sitting directly behind me in the main stand at Ibrox had twice bawled "F*** the Pope" during some of the home supporters' communal singing.

      Bigoted chanting is an old sore with Rangers FC and its support, and the club makes weekly tannoy requests urging fans to report other supporters who indulge in such antics. Rangers even advertise a telephone number by which supporters can file such complaints with details (where the offender sits, etc). As you can imagine, the so-called "grassing" hotline is hardly popular among those Rangers diehards, for whom songs about Popes, Fenians and the rest of it is both a right and a privilege.

      But journalists getting involved? It is one thing for someone in my position to report it and comment on it, but quite another to wade in and become an active participant. And yet more than one correspondent has written to me since Sunday and said something such as: "Go on then Graham ... let's see if you've got the guts to do it."

      In fact, Sunday at Ibrox was no exceptional symptom of the Old Firm's bigotry problem - that is, if you are used to these things and simply accept that the droning choristers will not be able to help themselves. And in this regard, Rangers as a club are between a rock and a hard place.

      Uefa has already punished Rangers for the bigoted antics of its supporters in 2006, an episode which proved excruciating for the club's directors. Yet since then, while some of Rangers' efforts to cure the problem have definitely slackened off, more and more people are commenting that the old Ibrox ills are creeping back. The Rangers pre-match anthem, Simply the Best, is now embarrassingly hijacked by throngs of supporters, who apply their own offensive lyric to the tune, as was the case once more on Sunday.

      In my own specific experience on Sunday, a Rangers fan sitting behind my press position in the main stand was chanting so loudly and excitedly - and offensively - that it simply became a distraction. It was also quite sad when I turned round to look at him: he was youngish, maybe 18 or 19, and highly animated by events on the pitch, and in every other way quite a respectable-looking bloke.

      It always comes back to the same dilemma: what can be done? Thousands of Rangers fans on Sunday afternoon repeatedly let rip with their popular refrain "we hate Celtic - fenian bas**rds", precisely the sort of language which caused Uefa to punish the club in 2006. Yet are Rangers, their stewards or the police supposed to wade in and apprehend hundreds of fans? It just isn't feasible.

      Yet Rangers have gone mute on this subject, thanks in the main to local Scottish media pressure easing on them: not a cheep, not an utterance of condemnation from the club in recent times about such songs. Rangers are currently practising a cowardice on the subject which will once more return to haunt them. And it all remains cringe-making for those legions of decent Rangers fans who just wish the tribes of oafs in their midst would either be muzzled, or removed, or both. The club's image remains in the gutter.

      I may or may not report my main stand miscreant to Rangers. In all honesty, I'm loath to. And in any case, the way Rangers are copping out of all this at the moment, would they be in the slightest bit interested?


      http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2009/10/cowardly-rangers-turn-a-blind-eye-to-bigotry.html
      timmj60
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #3: Nov 15, 2009 03:25:14 pm
      Am i missing something.Celtic fans singing IRA songs during the minutes silence at Falkirk . did it just fly by you as a journalist.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #4: Nov 15, 2009 03:56:34 pm
      Am i missing something.Celtic fans singing IRA songs during the minutes silence at Falkirk . did it just fly by you as a journalist.

      From what I've heard, that wasn't in the ground but by those acctually outside the ground.

      But then again I'm not surprised, when they have leanings towards the Irish.

      It'll be a bit like when Margaret Thatcher dies and the Daily Mail and several of their ilk are slagging off Liverpool supporters for not respecting a minutes silence for that old witch.

      Swings and roundabouts and all that!
      tezmac
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #5: Nov 15, 2009 04:03:57 pm
      Have been to a Celtic match it was weired like being in Ireland with all the tricoulors and the songs very strange but both teams are very secterian
      SM
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #6: Nov 16, 2009 10:46:06 am
      A mate of mine who used to watch England home and away said that when they played Scotland many years ago in Scotland a group of Rangers fans were in there end cheering for the English and singing the national anthem.

      Is this true and why would this happen - I dont get it.

      Can anyone tell me why this would happen and what the IRA has to do with anything.
      Semple
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      • Ireland's Finest Scouser. Henderson supporter.
      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #7: Nov 16, 2009 10:48:58 pm
      A mate of mine who used to watch England home and away said that when they played Scotland many years ago in Scotland a group of Rangers fans were in there end cheering for the English and singing the national anthem.

      Is this true and why would this happen - I dont get it.

      Can anyone tell me why this would happen and what the IRA has to do with anything.

      I couldn't answer for certain mate, but being from Belfast I could maybe give you a good idea of what is meant behind this. Here in the north of Ireland, our two main communities are Catholic and Protestant. During the 19th Century, a lot of Irish people moved from Ireland to places all over the world, such as Glasgow (and of course Liverpool). As a result, you have a lot of people in Glasgow with Irish heritage. Some are Catholic and some are Protestant. Celtic was formed by a member of St.Marys Church (Catholic Church in Glasgow). Its name was used to show the clubs Irish heritage. Rangers, were named after a English Rugby club. I don't know all the facts behind it but it is generally accepted that the Irish Cathoilics in Glasgow supported Celtic and the Irish Protestants or native Scots, supported Rangers. As a result, this thought has spread through to Northern Ireland. The feeling is that if you see someone in a Celtic shirt, they are Catholic and if you are wearing a Rangers shirt, you are Protestant.

      Now, I can't be certain why the Scottish Rangers fans would shout for England. However, I can answer it from what you see in the north of Ireland. Many Protestant communities are decorated with flags such as the St. Georges flag.  Also, many Catholic communities are decorated with tri-colour flags containing the colours Gren, White and Orange. You would also see this painted on murals in these communities. These flags are used by these communities to show who they are and who they wish to be ruled by I.e showing a St. Georges flag will indicate you wish to be ruled from Britain. If you goto a Rangers match, you will hear thousands of N.I accents as these people use it to show what side of the community they are from. They will also bring with them their St. Georges flag or the British flag. My only guess, with regards to the Scottish/Rangers fans chanting for England, is that the actions of Irish Protestants attending Rangers matches have "brushed off" onto the Scots/Rangers fans. Therefore, without realising it, the Scots fans just copy the Irish fans.

      With regards to the Celtic fans singing IRA songs, it is similar to the Rangers fans. Rangers fans sing songs that relate to the UVF/UDA. This shows that they are from the Protestant side of the community I.e Unionist/Loyalists. Celtic fans sing IRA songs to show that they are Catholic and are from the Nationalist/Republican side. Again, what with so many Irish people attending Celtic matches, the actions of the Irish fans "brushes-off" on to the Scots/Celtic fans.

      Despite being Catholic, I have no time for either one of the teams and I try not to take any interest in any Old Firm matches. It is very important to understand that NOT all Catholics will support Celtic and NOT all Protestants will support Rangers. Hope that helps :)
      SM
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #8: Nov 17, 2009 12:41:25 pm
      Semple - many thanks for explaining that.

      Hope I didnt take up too much of your time!

      Strange how religion should force its way into football really, it should be about the game not where your from or what religion you are.

      Anyway thanks again mate.
      Billy1
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #9: Nov 18, 2009 07:29:18 am
      I couldn't answer for certain mate, but being from Belfast I could maybe give you a good idea of what is meant behind this. Here in the north of Ireland, our two main communities are Catholic and Protestant. During the 19th Century, a lot of Irish people moved from Ireland to places all over the world, such as Glasgow (and of course Liverpool). As a result, you have a lot of people in Glasgow with Irish heritage. Some are Catholic and some are Protestant. Celtic was formed by a member of St.Marys Church (Catholic Church in Glasgow). Its name was used to show the clubs Irish heritage. Rangers, were named after a English Rugby club. I don't know all the facts behind it but it is generally accepted that the Irish Cathoilics in Glasgow supported Celtic and the Irish Protestants or native Scots, supported Rangers. As a result, this thought has spread through to Northern Ireland. The feeling is that if you see someone in a Celtic shirt, they are Catholic and if you are wearing a Rangers shirt, you are Protestant.

      Now, I can't be certain why the Scottish Rangers fans would shout for England. However, I can answer it from what you see in the north of Ireland. Many Protestant communities are decorated with flags such as the St. Georges flag.  Also, many Catholic communities are decorated with tri-colour flags containing the colours Gren, White and Orange. You would also see this painted on murals in these communities. These flags are used by these communities to show who they are and who they wish to be ruled by I.e showing a St. Georges flag will indicate you wish to be ruled from Britain. If you goto a Rangers match, you will hear thousands of N.I accents as these people use it to show what side of the community they are from. They will also bring with them their St. Georges flag or the British flag. My only guess, with regards to the Scottish/Rangers fans chanting for England, is that the actions of Irish Protestants attending Rangers matches have "brushed off" onto the Scots/Rangers fans. Therefore, without realising it, the Scots fans just copy the Irish fans.

      With regards to the Celtic fans singing IRA songs, it is similar to the Rangers fans. Rangers fans sing songs that relate to the UVF/UDA. This shows that they are from the Protestant side of the community I.e Unionist/Loyalists. Celtic fans sing IRA songs to show that they are Catholic and are from the Nationalist/Republican side. Again, what with so many Irish people attending Celtic matches, the actions of the Irish fans "brushes-off" on to the Scots/Celtic fans.

      Despite being Catholic, I have no time for either one of the teams and I try not to take any interest in any Old Firm matches. It is very important to understand that NOT all Catholics will support Celtic and NOT all Protestants will support Rangers. Hope that helps :)
      It was pretty much the same in Liverpool in the 1940sand 50s,most of the Everton team was made up of Irish Internationals and mostly of the Catholic faith.I suppose the opposite was true of L.F.C.Happily today religion is not a criteria to who supports what team.
      Semple
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #10: Nov 18, 2009 07:09:19 pm
      Semple - many thanks for explaining that.

      Hope I didnt take up too much of your time!

      Strange how religion should force its way into football really, it should be about the game not where your from or what religion you are.

      Anyway thanks again mate.

      Anytime mate.

      In a strange way mate, i enjoyed writing that out. Simply as i love football and over the years i have learnt a lot about football and writing this out proves that i have still got it ;D
      Semple
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      Re: The Old Firm.
      Reply #11: Nov 18, 2009 07:11:28 pm
      It was pretty much the same in Liverpool in the 1940sand 50s,most of the Everton team was made up of Irish Internationals and mostly of the Catholic faith.I suppose the opposite was true of L.F.C.Happily today religion is not a criteria to who supports what team.

      Don't know were i got this from, but for some reason, i thought it was the opposite in terms of Everton playing players of the Catholic faith- thought it was Liverpool that did that :)

      I agree with you- its good that religion doesn't play apart in our team selection.

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