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      Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling

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      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #138: Nov 22, 2009 09:43:02 pm
      All in all, another 2 points dropped at home, against a 'mediocre' Man City side at best. So disappointed for Agger, when is the lad gong to get a 'lucky' break? We should have put this game to bed in the first hour, but again we failed to capitalise on possession. With all our injury worries, the defence changes from one game to the next, there is no time for understandings to be built. Once we get some f**king luck, then I expect to see Johnson, Carragher, Agger and Aurelio at the helm. Insua was shocking yesterday, he;s gone off the boil since the United game. Starting to become a liability, too much too soon for him I think. Aurelio needs to be back in the left back spot, as soon as is possible.

      Javier Mascherano was colossal, he was everywhere and had the City midfield in his pocket, no questions can be raised about his 'commitment'. Why Aquilani wasn't used can only be answered by Rafa, but we so need him in that team now. I'm not a Lucas basher by any stretch of the imagination, but we are not going to win much as long as he partners the Monster in the middle. Far too many times, Lucas chooses to pass backwards or laterally, afaid to go for the 'killer' pass, effectively shirking his responsibilty. His defensive side of his game is very good, but offensively, time and time again, he is found wanting.

      Dirk Kuyt? Where has it all gone wrong? Has failed to build on last season and has been one of our worst performers this season. It's like passing the ball to a pinball machine, you don't know where it's going to end up. He needs to be dropped to give him a wake up call. As industrious a player as he is, we need that creative inventiveness too.

      Ryan Babel? He doesn't give a f**k. After that De Jong tackle he wilted like a f**king pussy, not fit to wear the shirt, an absolute f**king disgrace, get rid of the c**t. Not exactly the attitude of a player wanting to represent his country in next years World Cup Finals.

      David N'Gog? Still learning his trade, don't feel he is able to play the 'lone striker' role. It's not his fault though, just feel that when Nando is out, N'Gog should have a striking partner up front. Pacheco? Why not? How many below par performances from certain players will Rafa accept before he gives our kids a chance?

      A massive week ahead it is for us, we could be out of the Champions League and the title race by Sunday evening, a situation I would never have envisaged at the start of the season.

      The centre of midfield needs a fresh breath of life, Rafa, unleash Aquilani, the time is now my friend.

      Agree with most of it mate but I don't think Masch had the City midfield in his pocket. He played well, but how many times did Ireland find space between the back four and Masch/Lucas.

      The goal Ireland scored, he walked into the box without one of our midfielders anywhere near him. Wright-Phillips' shot in the first half was left by Ireland, again with him in open space.

      Ireland was the one midfielder for them constantly breaking to support the forward(s) and our two holding midfielders were nowhere near him when he did so.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #139: Nov 22, 2009 10:17:38 pm
      Agree with most of it mate but I don't think Masch had the City midfield in his pocket. He played well, but how many times did Ireland find space between the back four and Masch/Lucas.

      The goal Ireland scored, he walked into the box without one of our midfielders anywhere near him. Wright-Phillips' shot in the first half was left by Ireland, again with him in open space.

      Ireland was the one midfielder for them constantly breaking to support the forward(s) and our two holding midfielders were nowhere near him when he did so.

      In all fairness DLS, my reference to the midfield was to include all the City midfielders. Masch was everywhere, he effectively immobilised Barry and was on hand countless times, pulling Insua out of the sh*t on a couple of occasions. That's what i like about Masch, where other players back off, Masch never does, he's straight into anyone, anywhere on the park. If the other midfielders aren't pressing then Masch will step in and sort it out. If he gets dragged across the field due to other players not 'trying' or being bothered, then other players should have the game intelligence to fill in for him.

      Lucas spent most of the game either lateral to Masch or behind him, this shouldn't be happening. Lucas should be ahead of Masch, Masch cleans up, feeds Lucas ahead of him, Lucas look to pass ball forward and we launch attack.

      As it is, Masch wins ball, feeds Lucas, Lucas shits himself, passes back to Skrtel or Agger, or straight back to Masch.
      Once Aquilani is playing, this whole 'creativity' debate will die down and we'll hopefully be back to some sort of normality mate.

      Our central midfield is the problem area this season, not the only problem, by any stretch of the imagination, but when compared to last season, it is painfully obvious to see. The only player to have provided the 'killer balls' has been Benayoun, a sad statistic.
      redkenny
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #140: Nov 22, 2009 10:32:11 pm
      Now were out of the title race (swear to god if someone comes on here an says were still in the race i'll go mental) 

      We're still in the title race.  ;D

      Were out the league, we are on the verge of going out of Europe, at the moment i can't see us winning the f.a cup either. If we finish outside the top 4 this season i can't begin to say how much of an effect that will have on us finacially. Im s'hitting myself.  Maybe im being dramatic but i can see us becoming the next Leeds with these 2 c'unts running the club.

      Get your chin up fella. When things are going bad it's all too easy to emphasize the possibility of things getting worse. Given that we're in a bad situation with the disgraceful owners, things can and will improve on the pitch.

      Fair enough, we do struggle up front when Torres is missing. That's plain to see and I don't disagree. But a good thing about yesterdays game was a goal coming from a defender at a set piece. When was the last time a defender scored a goal for us? Probably Johnson, but from a set piece? I might be wrong, but it could possibly be a goal from Big Sami!

      What I'm saying is this might hopefully boost our confidence and the players who don't usually offer a goal threat, at set pieces. Because the confidence in our team is shot deep down. When we scored that first goal, it was heartbreaking to see the players suddenly be more concerned about conceding rather than go for the jugular.

      Anything that can be taken to boost our lads confidence should be used and emphasized. It was a small factor, but they all add up at the end of the day.

      Another point about the final third thing. I think you're asking a lot of Ngog to play up top on his todd when the confidence of the team is not in a good state. Once we scored that first goal yesterday, the midfield was camped out in or around our own half. Passes started going astray and long balls started going straight back to their keeper or defence.

      If you've played football yourself, then you know if you go about ten/fifteen minutes without touching the ball, your instinct makes you want to do something really good with it when you finally receive it. Now I think Ngog is alright. He's no Torres but he's showing signs of being a slippery character in or around the box. But he's young and pretty much inexperienced. If he gets isolated up front, he's not going to be thinking straight and will need support.

      This needs addressing when we're without Torres. It further needs addressing when January comes. And the burden shouldn't just be on Torres by the way. Before a game, the first thing I do when I see the team is look to where the goal threats will come from. It's upsetting that it's usually no more than four players - in some cases five.

      More players need to be chipping in.

      For what I quoted though:

      1) It's certainly looking likely that we're out of the title race. But it's not impossible.
      2) Europe is no longer in our hands. But it's not impossible to go through.
      3) We haven't even got started in the FA Cup yet, so there's a very good chance we could win it. Just like everyone else in a knock out competition.
      4) The league ends in May - just over six months away. Plenty of time to improve the confidence, get players fit and get on a winning run. And that is very possible.

      We've got to get our chins up and stop licking our wounds. We are gradually, small step by step getting better on the field. Nothing drastic has changed on the pitch. We're just missing the confidence and a solid regular first team.

      There's no doubt we need very good additions to the squad and things to improve off the pitch, but for the time being, we've got to soldier on together.

      how many times did Ireland find space between the back four and Masch/Lucas.

      The goal Ireland scored, he walked into the box without one of our midfielders anywhere near him. Wright-Phillips' shot in the first half was left by Ireland, again with him in open space.

      Ireland was the one midfielder for them constantly breaking to support the forward(s) and our two holding midfielders were nowhere near him when he did so.

      Very true. And he's a very good player him. He deserves credit for the graft he puts in on the attack. The sad fact is, you won't get that with Lucas and Mascherano in our engine room.

      I can understand why hardcoresoldier thought Mascherano was strong though. He did put the graft in, but unfortunately, we made things easier for City when we scored our first goal. We made them look better than they are, with the exception of Ireland.

      albertared
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #141: Nov 23, 2009 01:00:42 am

      As for Skrtel, was soooo happy for him to score his first goal today, hopefully he can start his goal scoring career now. Would love him to be a real aerial presence when it comes to attacking set pieces but for now he has to get his defensive set pieces in order first. How he let Adebayor get 2 feet clear of him is beyond me. It was his simple task to mark Citeh's most obvious aerial threat and he failed to do it.



      I have to be honest and say that I just don't rate Skrtel anywhere near as highly as most others seem to do. I'm not saying he's sh*te but I can't see that he is anywhere close to world class, which is the standard we need.

      I know all the rationalising for Rafa's transfer dealings (especially from Tompkins) and I understand and agree with most of it but I just think when you are buying "spine" players then they'd better be as close to the best in the world you can get or just don't spend the money. How is Skrtel better than Hyypia? OK, Saami is nearing the end of his career and Skrtel is young but still....I think it is clear we would have been better keeping Hyypia for one more season.
      bgwdivemaster
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #142: Nov 23, 2009 01:58:33 am
      Can somebody explain to me why Aquilani isn't starting?  Hasn't he been training with the squad a full month now?  I know we have our defence troubles but I really think he will be the added edge we need. 

      YANK_LFC_FAN
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #143: Nov 23, 2009 02:31:23 am
      Something which has been lightly talked about on the forum has been the lack of English born guys on any of the EPL teams.  In the case of Liverpool, I think that the foreign born players, w/ some exceptions may not realize or are just Ignorant to what it means to be a Liverpool Player.  Any kid from England no matter where he was born or who he supports respects and knows the honor associated with playing for these "Old Guard" clubs.

      When players from S.America, Eastern Europe, Africa come to play they realize its the best league in the world but dont go beyond that. They see it as making it too the top and ending it there.  I think having the history behind you can really motivate a player and team.  A S.American player may not realize the power of "History" or Shankly, Paisley, Dalglish, the KOP, Anfield.  Knowing the History and what the LFC Crest on your Jersey means will make any player just a bit better.  Anfield is hallowed ground, you dont just run around, hope to score then go home. 

      SaintLiverpudlian
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #144: Nov 23, 2009 03:12:40 am
      You know what's cool about football? There's always the next season. Rafa started the league saying we will contend for first, he was sure we can still win. Then he is sure we can turn it around. Now he says we probably will finish from the top four. In light of our team's disappointing form, we need change. Either a couple of new players, or a couple of new owners. If Rafa goes sh*t will hit the fan. It's not like a new manager in mid-season can bring us glory or anything.
      bartman49
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #145: Nov 23, 2009 04:08:31 am
      I want to know why City whose team cost a lot more than ours is not getting harassed the way Rafa does, maybe it's because Rafa's a foreigner, always expected as much.
      SaintLiverpudlian
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #146: Nov 23, 2009 04:15:27 am
      I want to know why City whose team cost a lot more than ours is not getting harassed the way Rafa does, maybe it's because Rafa's a foreigner, always expected as much.

      I got a very simple answer for you. Liverpool = greatest in England. Supporting this team, you should know that great teams are required to get trophies and not just "contend". Maybe we had a 20 year drought, but it doesn't change the fact that we ask for titles. We are a community club. Our stadium is neared by houses and loved by millions. City are pitiful, whatever they get is an achievement no matter how much the spend. If they qualify for Europe it's their biggest achievement. We however, want the EPL.
      Scott Barton
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #147: Nov 23, 2009 01:29:08 pm
      My reaction is, not again! I felt it was a horrible game, neither team deserved to win. I would still much prefer Gerrard in central mid, I think a lot of the time the play doesn’t get to him purely because L;ucas and Mascherano arent creative enough, no knock on them but they are the same player really. We looked very void of willpower to go and win, we looked like whimpering in to the corner. We seemed very standofish, took me back to the Gerard Houllier days, Aquilani is needed I feel a lot, but will there be too much pressure on the lad? All I can say is its early days but I think we need to aim to get in to the top 4 at the very least
      Brian78
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #148: Nov 23, 2009 05:15:59 pm
      I see the Lucas thread is locked? Thought he played well on Saturday should have won it for us though at the end no excuses. Hes done that 2 or 3 times this season with headers in front of goal has he not?
      corballyred
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #149: Nov 23, 2009 07:15:03 pm
      You weren't watching the same game as me then Brian, Lucas at best was mediocre, he didn't get involved in the game, let Ireland go for City second, missed a sitter and the end and gave away to many stupid frees.

      His passing was ordinary to say the least, he did not get up in support of Ngog at any stage and the sooner Aquilani comes in the better as we have 2 midfielders doing the exact same job except Masch is much better than it than Lucas and carried him for much of the game Saturday.

      I'm just praying Masch goes no where in January or the Summer because Lucas isn't in his league and never will be.
      tezmac
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #150: Nov 23, 2009 07:21:40 pm
      You weren't watching the same game as me then Brian, Lucas at best was mediocre, he didn't get involved in the game, let Ireland go for City second, missed a sitter and the end and gave away to many stupid frees.

      His passing was ordinary to say the least, he did not get up in support of Ngog at any stage and the sooner Aquilani comes in the better as we have 2 midfielders doing the exact same job except Masch is much better than it than Lucas and carried him for much of the game Saturday.

      I'm just praying Masch goes no where in January or the Summer because Lucas isn't in his league and never will be.
      Spot on about Lucas he has improved but a poor mans Masch, and made worse but the fact of 2 players doing the same job when will Aqualani make an appearance
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #151: Nov 24, 2009 12:22:54 am
      You weren't watching the same game as me then Brian, Lucas at best was mediocre, he didn't get involved in the game, let Ireland go for City second, missed a sitter and the end and gave away to many stupid frees.

      His passing was ordinary to say the least, he did not get up in support of Ngog at any stage and the sooner Aquilani comes in the better as we have 2 midfielders doing the exact same job except Masch is much better than it than Lucas and carried him for much of the game Saturday.

      I'm just praying Masch goes no where in January or the Summer because Lucas isn't in his league and never will be.

      Who ever does, really?
      Billy1
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #152: Nov 24, 2009 06:49:17 am
       I think it is time for corballyred and crouchino to put the handbags away before someone gets hurt,there has been faults on both sides so it is time to call a truce.We are all pissed off with how the match went with City but lets not forget we are all supposed to be REDS supporters and in times of trouble would expect each other to back us up.
      corballyred
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #153: Nov 24, 2009 08:45:49 am
      Well you don't Crouchinho because when ever I make a comment on Lucas performance there is a snide comment from yourself, I'd swear you are the lads agent because I don't think you have criticised any of his performances this season which is baffling to say least.

      Sorry Billy I'll support the team but getting on with Crouchinho is an impossibility he talks to much drivel and in my opinion he hasn't a clue what he is talking about 99% of the time, only lad on here that I genuinely think that of.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #154: Nov 24, 2009 10:19:39 am
      Well you don't Crouchinho because when ever I make a comment on Lucas performance there is a snide comment from yourself, I'd swear you are the lads agent because I don't think you have criticised any of his performances this season which is baffling to say least.

      Sorry Billy I'll support the team but getting on with Crouchinho is an impossibility he talks to much drivel and in my opinion he hasn't a clue what he is talking about 99% of the time, only lad on here that I genuinely think that of.

      Sweet.

      I have said harsh things about him - i can find it for you if you like. However, my opinion has changed. But this is not the Lucas player thread, so:

      On topic - everyone.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City: Post Match Dwelling
      Reply #155: Nov 25, 2009 03:17:58 am
      Well you don't Crouchinho because when ever I make a comment on Lucas performance there is a snide comment from yourself, I'd swear you are the lads agent because I don't think you have criticised any of his performances this season which is baffling to say least.

      C'mon that's uncalled for. We all know that's Magillionaires' job  :f_whistle:

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