The lack of creativity from our engine room.

Think about the prosect of leaving the central pair and playing Stevie in Kuyt's position, Yossi wide left and Aquilani behind Torres. If I was a defender for the opposition I'd be absolutely bricking it.

The slide rule passes i was referrring to were the ones that put players in to set up the assist as well as the direct assists.

I've done a very crude mock-up, but I see what you mean:



We very rarely, if at all, see this in our play these days.

Check you out Rafa.

Good point illustrated though.

I've done a very crude mock-up, but I see what you mean:



We very rarely, if at all, see this in our play these days.

Rafa, you got one more potential assistant manager for January transfer here!

Masch and Lucas are a bit too similar in playing style with Masch being better of both, but to say we are lacking of creativity is unlogical. I think the better term is short of creative spark not lacking of it. We are attacking and you can see it in our games but lack of urgency that made us suffer. You can see in some of our games, they were too relaxed, being comfortable with too many backpasses eventhough they're trailing the opposition. When the 80th minute come, then they started to throw everything upfront hoping to equalize or even snatching a win.

It's not the creativity but more to inconsistency. Pair it with lack of urgency and that's the reason of our current problem.

I've done a very crude mock-up, but I see what you mean:



We very rarely, if at all, see this in our play these days.

Spot on, last time i remember was Babels cross. If you remember last season, we undid the Mancs and Chelsea using the above. It all comes down to width, Kuyt will rarely go around his man, nor will Benayoun. The only naturally wide players are Glen Johnson, who should be given a go at RM or Riera, and that speaks volumes. We play far too narrow and in front of teams.

I've done a very crude mock-up, but I see what you mean:



We very rarely, if at all, see this in our play these days.

Jesus Christ! Didn't know you had access to Andy Gray's analysis machine! 

It all comes down to width, Kuyt will rarely go around his man, nor will Benayoun.

IMO Yossi is the one player that consistently beats their man. How often do we see him beat about 3 players in one quick movement? Apologies if you're talking about beating the full-back down the line because I agree Yossi cuts inside the majority of the time.

P.S. Reslivo, that picture illustrated my point to perfection. The closest we've come to that type of attack style this season was when Benayoun played that millimetre perfect pass through to Torres, and we all know what happened then, don't we? Our lack of pace with our wingers does make this style hard to implement though. Only Torres, Gerrard, Aquilani (once fit) and Johnson are ever going to have the pace to go round their man and get into these positions.

IMO Yossi is the one player that consistently beats their man. How often do we see him beat about 3 players in one quick movement? Apologies if you're talking about beating the full-back down the line because I agree Yossi cuts inside the majority of the time.

That is what i mean, we play in front of the opposition far too much, it shows in how often we encourage Mascherano and Lucas to shoot from 30yds. They shouldnt have to shoot from there, they should be mopping up on the edge of the box. In yossis case he always cuts inside but hardly has a shot once beaten his man. We need someone who is going to beat their man and whip the ball in, even if its the full backs doing it. The Mancs have Evra at LB and Valencia at RM which gives some kind of balance to the team, Chelski have Cole at LB, Malouda and whoever at RB. Basically if your central midfield and forwards are to play sit in front of the opposition defence you are going to need someone who will try to beat their man, there is only one played who does this for us and we miss him bad (guess who?). Whereas it works for Arsenal because their players have the technical ability to play it around the opposition whereas we give the opposition time to shut us down again and again.

Riera has pace, he just doesn't really have the positional sense to get there and run off the full-back.

As for Kuyt - well he doesn't have pace, nor a first touch, but he has great positional sense. If we could combine the two, we'd probably have a near-perfect player.

Riera has pace, he just doesn't really have the positional sense to get there and run off the full-back.

As for Kuyt - well he doesn't have pace, nor a first touch, but he has great positional sense. If we could combine the two, we'd probably have a near-perfect player.

Albirk Kierat. What a legend he'd be.

Albirk Kierat. What a legend he'd be.

He'd be a right ugly b***ard

there is only one played who does this for us and we miss him bad (guess who?).

You're not talking about Pennant are you? Because its one thing attempting to do that and another thing actually being able to do it!

EDIT: I'm assuming you meant 'player' instead of 'played' so that man would be Johnson. Yes we do miss him, badly. People can say all they want about his defending but we're still leaking just as many goals without him and badly missing his attacking threat going forward. He really has been a revelation.

You're not talking about Pennant are you? Because its one thing attempting to do that and another thing actually being able to do it!

Torres you numpty!!!

Torres you numpty!!!

Oh rite, haha! I had two bites of the apple and got both wrong!

This is getting beyond a joke please Rafa stop playing Masch and Lucas together in the same team it is killing us. The lack of creativty is a joke to be honest.

First half it was effective. Didn't really see the point of having them both on from then on.

It wasn't effective at any stage of the game and barring the Utd game it hasn't really been effective all season. It is killing us, the game was crying out for creativity tonight F**k sake surely Rafa could have brought on Aquilani for the last half an hour. Lucas was a passenger tonight.

Engine room what fcking engine room ,bringing on Alberto for 30 secs in my opinion is a fcking disgrace ,if we are saying he is not fit then what was he doing out there ,also is he less fit now than when he played against arsenal ,is so something is very wrong .
 Tonight rafa i think you truly fcked with the plan ,saturday i could agree with because of the injuries ,but tonight just beat the fck out of me ,reminded me of that portsmouth game when rafa fcked with the plan that day .
 Ok tonight in the end it didn,t matter but so disappointed with the way we played beggars belief,said it before and will say it again you cant play two holders in midfield its stifling us ,before long our midfield will be known as sidewards and backwards.

It wasn't effective at any stage of the game and barring the Utd game it hasn't really been effective all season. It is killing us, the game was crying out for creativity tonight F**k sake surely Rafa could have brought on Aquilani for the last half an hour. Lucas was a passenger tonight.

The first half, it as effective. Debrecen has nothing and couldn't deal with us. It wore off as the game went on, though. Thought Lucas should of come off around the 55-60 minute mark.

It has worked against the Mancs, Hull, Stoke, Lyon and Chelsea just to name a few. The Chelsea game just swung in their favour.

If you don't remember Crouchinho we have had probably our worst start in 50 years, even Gary Mac was baffled by it tonight. He is saying what some of us on here have been saying for the last few months not you though Crouchinho. Lucas and Masch don't work together they do the same job.

If they continue to play in the same team we will not finish in the top 4, if you go back to August you will find I will saying we would struggle with them in midfield.

I think it is time we stopped playing two holding midfielders and went for just one or maybe try and give lucas the freedom to get forward and let masch drop back.

All I can say about tonights game how many times did you see us break on the counter to see it break down through a backwards or sidewards pass, giving Debrecen all the time in the world to get two banks of four behind the ball ?, its painful to watch to be honest especially when its from a team that in all comparisons is equivalent to a league2/3 side.