The lack of creativity from our engine room.

If you don't remember Crouchinho we have had probably our worst start in 50 years, even Gary Mac was baffled by it tonight. He is saying what some of us on here have been saying for the last few months not you though Crouchinho. Lucas and Masch don't work together they do the same job.

If they continue to play in the same team we will not finish in the top 4, if you go back to August you will find I will saying we would struggle with them in midfield.

Listen - I. Don't. Care. What. Others. Say! My name is not Gary Macallister or any other person on television. Their job is to create debate and spark the minds of some people who do not bother to look at fact.

It has worked. It's the same argument as the 'Torres/Gerrard are everything'. Not true.

Much like how we have won without Torres/Gerrard, we have won/dominated with Lucas and Mascherano.

Don't worry, when we have snatched all Barça's kids, we will be able to create a goal like the one scored by Pedro against Intermilan tonight.

All I can say about tonights game how many times did you see us break on the counter to see it break down through a backwards or sidewards pass, giving Debrecen all the time in the world to get two banks of four behind the ball ?, its painful to watch to be honest especially when its from a team that in all comparisons is equivalent to a league2/3 side.

How exactly have you arrived at the conclusion that they are the equivalent of a League 2/3 side?

(By the way there is no League 3).

I'm just interested how you came to that conclusion. Or are you, as I suspect, just knee-jerking?

All I can say about tonights game how many times did you see us break on the counter to see it break down through a backwards or sidewards pass, giving Debrecen all the time in the world to get two banks of four behind the ball ?, its painful to watch to be honest especially when its from a team that in all comparisons is equivalent to a league2/3 side.

agree totally, it was so frustrating, kuyt does it too, aswell as lucas, its like they dont want the responsibility of being creative, anybody can do it, if you put your mind to it, just do what the other player doesnt expect you to do.

How exactly have you arrived at the conclusion that they are the equivalent of a League 2/3 side?

(By the way there is no League 3).

I'm just interested how you came to that conclusion. Or are you, as I suspect, just knee-jerking?

They have a 1.5 million a year transfer budget thats where I drew my conclusion & its no knee jerk, we were sh*te and I pointed out a fact...how many times did you see us go off on a counter only to play a sideways/backwards pass giving Debrecen time to regroup ?

Hardlies a knee Jerk its a valid point and it occurred on quite a few occasions during the game.

TBH - i wish we had a 1.5m transfer budget.

So they're not a 'League 3' side then?

Stop your crying. We got 6 points against them didn't we.  Beating them 25-0 home and away wouldn't have changed a thing.

TBH - i wish we had a 1.5m transfer budget.

F***ing good shout.

You could say we out-punched a 1.5M a year team with out 125k a year team.

I'm not crying JD and as I said in the match thread sometimes you have to win ugly and hopefully we can take the confidence from our previous two games and build on it. I could reply with an insult myself but as we know by my Ban, the mods can dish it out but they can't take it, so I'll keep my insults to myself.

Let's not cloud simple football.

If we're not creative, imaginative or direct in the engine room, all we can expect is the ball going out wide or backwards. Which can be easily dealt with by the opposition if they close down the wide.

If the wide play is not effective or is pressured, then we're gonna have the ball going back in the middle and/or back into our own half. In turn, with midfielders being deep in our own half to pick the ball up again, it's easier for the defence to start knocking hopeful long balls up the pitch if the opposition press the midfield.

We all know our defence has been low on confidence lately. Shoddy and desperate at times. And the lack of creative, imaginative or direct play from our engine room is, in my opinion, having an effect in that confidence not growing. And it also leaves players like Ngog and Gerrard getting isolated.

Tonight was an example of that I feel. You can see it as clear as day without stats or anything else.

Let's not cloud simple football.

If we're not creative, imaginative or direct in the engine room, all we can expect is the ball going out wide or backwards. Which can be easily dealt with by the opposition if they close down the wide.

If the wide play is not effective or is pressured, then we're gonna have the ball going back in the middle and/or back into our own half. In turn, with midfielders being deep in our own half to pick the ball up again, it's easier for the defence to start knocking hopeful long balls up the pitch if the opposition press the midfield.

We all know our defence has been low on confidence lately. Shoddy and desperate at times. And the lack of creative, imaginative or direct play from our engine room is, in my opinion, having an effect in that confidence not growing. And it also leaves players like Ngog and Gerrard getting isolated.

Tonight was an example of that I feel. You can see it as clear as day without stats or anything else.

Unfortunately I think you're correct..it's sad to say but we were lass than pacey and ran out of ideas.  Really missed Torres and I can't understand why Rafa didn't bring Acquilani on much earlier. Very frustrating  

Let's not cloud simple football.

If we're not creative, imaginative or direct in the engine room, all we can expect is the ball going out wide or backwards. Which can be easily dealt with by the opposition if they close down the wide.

If the wide play is not effective or is pressured, then we're gonna have the ball going back in the middle and/or back into our own half. In turn, with midfielders being deep in our own half to pick the ball up again, it's easier for the defence to start knocking hopeful long balls up the pitch if the opposition press the midfield.

We all know our defence has been low on confidence lately. Shoddy and desperate at times. And the lack of creative, imaginative or direct play from our engine room is, in my opinion, having an effect in that confidence not growing. And it also leaves players like Ngog and Gerrard getting isolated.

Tonight was an example of that I feel. You can see it as clear as day without stats or anything else.

Spot on that Kenny nice to see you were watching the same game as me.

I'm not crying JD and as I said in the match thread sometimes you have to win ugly and hopefully we can take the confidence from our previous two games and build on it. I could reply with an insult myself but as we know by my Ban, the mods can dish it out but they can't take it, so I'll keep my insults to myself.

Touche. 

And actually I can take it. Via PM or user rating. Not on the boards.

Touche. 

And actually I can take it. Via PM or user rating. Not on the boards.

To be honest JD I apologise for that comment, Guess I was just a little pissed at going out tonight and felt being called a knee jerker and told to stop crying for raising a valid point was a little uncalled for.

I have to say though Kenny summed up perfectly what I was trying to say and i've seen it all too often this season, this our beloved Liverpool no one wants to see us this way but admitting whats in front of us is surely the only way of the problem being addressed in the long run no ?

To be honest JD I apologise for that comment, Guess I was just a little pissed at going out tonight and felt being called a knee jerker and told to stop crying for raising a valid point was a little uncalled for.

I have to say though Kenny summed up perfectly what I was trying to say and i've seen it all too often this season, this our beloved Liverpool no one wants to see us this way but admitting whats in front of us is surely the only way of the problem being addressed in the long run no ?

Absolutely.

I'm not glossing over that we are playing way below standard but this thread is about the creativity of our side.  We've scored one more goal than this time last year.  I don't remember us having this debate this time last year.

Nearly all our problems this year have stemmed from our defending.

 To my reckoning we have only scored 3 goals from defenders in the league,now in days gone by opposition teams did not know who to mark as anyone of 10 outfield players had the ability to put the ball in the net.I have mentioned in another thread our game is getting clogged up with short passing and not making any progress.We definitely need a player/s who are capable of vision and able to split the opposing defence wide open with accurate long passes.

Spot on that Kenny nice to see you were watching the same game as me.

For me, the counter attack we had where the ball fell to Lucas and he played it backwards sums everything up.

Our defenders might only have scored 3 goals between them but our centre midfielders have none and to be honest wouldn't be shocked if they went the whole season without scoring, what has Masch 1 goal for Liverpool, Lucas has I think 2 or 3 that is in about about 250 games between them, that is why we need a fit Aquilani as soon as possible.

Let's not cloud simple football.

If we're not creative, imaginative or direct in the engine room, all we can expect is the ball going out wide or backwards. Which can be easily dealt with by the opposition if they close down the wide.

If the wide play is not effective or is pressured, then we're gonna have the ball going back in the middle and/or back into our own half. In turn, with midfielders being deep in our own half to pick the ball up again, it's easier for the defence to start knocking hopeful long balls up the pitch if the opposition press the midfield.

We all know our defence has been low on confidence lately. Shoddy and desperate at times. And the lack of creative, imaginative or direct play from our engine room is, in my opinion, having an effect in that confidence not growing. And it also leaves players like Ngog and Gerrard getting isolated.

Tonight was an example of that I feel. You can see it as clear as day without stats or anything else.

Nail on head RK. How more confident would our backs be knowing that any mistake that they may make won't cost us points?

All the "possession" we have in all games counts for F**k all without goals. No goals when we're dominating leaves us edgy and tense from front to back because we know that just one mistake at a set-piece, for example, will cost. We invariably are left chasing games that we should have 'put to bed' early on when we were in the ascendancy.

Like it or not - we are way too predictable.

Nail on head RK. How more confident would our backs be knowing that any mistake that they may make won't cost us points?

All the "possession" we have in all games counts for f**k all without goals. No goals when we're dominating leaves us edgy and tense from front to back because we know that just one mistake at a set-piece, for example, will cost. We invariably are left chasing games that we should have 'put to bed' early on when we were in the ascendancy.


Like it or not - we are way too predictable.

So Rafa's a strategist/tactician he watches videos of all our games and the players analyse their own performances...why do we work this out and they don't appear to.  It's frutrating to see us move the ball side to side (albeit it was necesssary last night at times) but we didn't need both Lucas and Masc on the pitch....

Be interesting to know how many teams ( in europe) have a south american pairing in midfield, a spanish midfield proves to be very creative and can hold the ball well ,in fact the spanish midfielders are usually very attack minded ....just a thought

This is were our problems lie no creativity from the middle or both wings it needs sorting pronto or we wont finish 4th

Watching real Madrid and xavi alonso, can't we give them the money back , please xavi come back home , he must have made over 120 passes and 110 have been forward , there lies the problem  masha  and Lucas don't make 120 passes between them, probably haven't made 110 forward all season , obvious where are problems are just that our tactical genius of a manager can't see it.