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      Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings

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      JD
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #138: Dec 09, 2009 11:20:07 pm
      First half we were pretty dismal.  Went in 1-0 up.

      Second half we were far better and more composed on the ball.  Lost 2-1.

      Work that one out. 

      Like I've said before, the defence need to get a grip.  Sloppy backpasses, hospital balls back to the keeper, failing to deal with corners - increasing pressure on the defence all the time.

      Kuyt still in the side and Lucas gets dropped for Aquilani?  Sorry just doesn't make sense.  No player had a good game in my view. All very average.  Aquilani had a nice couple of touches but I think a far stronger line up would be moving Gerrard to the right wing, hauling Kuyt off and putting Aquilani a bit more advanced forward. 

      Nice to see Pacheco have a great shot with his first kick of the ball and Torres lit up the ground a bit (and the rest of the team).  Too many players underperforming and if I had to single a few out it would be Agger, Kuyt and Insua.
      sirignano
      • Forum Didi Hamann
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #139: Dec 09, 2009 11:23:20 pm
      why does gerrard never shoot anymore?
      he had space at one point to shhot, faked a shot and TRIED to play through kuyt, failed at this and then kuyt was offside anyway
      couple of years ago hed be banging them in
      neilo
      • Forum Peter Beardsley
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      Re: Daniel Pacheco Player Thread
      Reply #140: Dec 09, 2009 11:25:30 pm
      I hope we start to see more of him he's class, more of the same and we might have our own wonderkid,cant remember the last.
      redkenny
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #141: Dec 09, 2009 11:53:05 pm
      I don't know what to say to be honest. We can't do right for doing wrong sometimes.

      First half was the same old frustration we've come to get used to. Yet we took the lead before the break from a set piece.

      Second half we grew into it, looked a lot more positive and ambitious, yet we got hit.

      Not sure why Dossena has been getting the hype he has done, because for large parts of the game, I thought he drifted. I'm not saying he played badly - like we've seen in the past. Just didn't think he was amazing.

      Kuyt was F***ing garbage.

      The defence was uncertain in so many ways. And it's got me thinking, is it any wonder Rafa feels he has to play Macsherano and Lucas together so they can come deep to pick up the ball and cushion the burden on the unconfident defence. Too many balls just get hit away in hope with no thought whatsoever.

      Torres and Pacheco were a breath of fresh air. A much needed gasp of oxygen that's been missing from our attack. It was a pleasure to see real danger from those two players.

      F***ing hate getting beat. But tonight was a back to front game.

      Sooner or later, something will click and make sense.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #142: Dec 10, 2009 12:02:47 am
      I don't know what to say to be honest. We can't do right for doing wrong sometimes.

      First half was the same old frustration we've come to get used to. Yet we took the lead before the break from a set piece.

      Second half we grew into it, looked a lot more positive and ambitious, yet we got hit.

      Not sure why Dossena has been getting the hype he has done, because for large parts of the game, I thought he drifted. I'm not saying he played badly - like we've seen in the past. Just didn't think he was amazing.

      Kuyt was f**king garbage.

      The defence was uncertain in so many ways. And it's got me thinking, is it any wonder Rafa feels he has to play Macsherano and Lucas together so they can come deep to pick up the ball and cushion the burden on the unconfident defence. Too many balls just get hit away in hope with no thought whatsoever.

      Torres and Pacheco were a breath of fresh air. A much needed gasp of oxygen that's been missing from our attack. It was a pleasure to see real danger from those two players.

      F***ing hate getting beat. But tonight was a back to front game.

      Sooner or later, something will click and make sense.

      Great post mate, summed it up for me from the highlights ive seen. And interesting point about Lucas and Masch, its true that the defense has been shaky and maybe Rafa has been looking to sure it up with those two. And, it has worked a lot better the last few weeks. They don't play together, low and behold, we lose. Very interesting. But, we looked good going forward with Aquilani at times as well so it's really just a thing about getting the back four itself settled for me, thats my main worry at the moment.

      Pacheco and Torres, the new frontmen for me. Two players with that magical quality about them that makes them a nightmare for defenses. Two is always better than one as well, hopefully see more of Dani out there in the near future.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #143: Dec 10, 2009 12:15:53 am

      Not sure why Dossena has been getting the hype he has done, because for large parts of the game, I thought he drifted. I'm not saying he played badly - like we've seen in the past. Just didn't think he was amazing.


      I gave Dossena credit for his performance which I stated was solid enough, he had a fairly decent game without being amazing but I feel offered a lot more than Riera.Babel have on the left this season, he stayed wide got his heels white, played a couple of decent crosses/passes and could have got himself on score sheet if he'd just manged to make a connection for that header.

      But the main reason I gave him credit for all of the above it must be hard for any player who has no real game time to come in and give a decent steady performance and thats exactly what I thought he did to be honest, without being spectacular and he deserves credit for that in my opinion especially given how much I've slated him. ;)
      tezmac
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #144: Dec 10, 2009 12:19:24 am
      Yes I have slated him but fair due's to the guy he looked good had a good game and seems to have lost a lot of weight ..... well in doss
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #145: Dec 10, 2009 12:26:16 am
      I gave Dossena credit for his performance which I stated was solid enough, he had a fairly decent game without being amazing but I feel offered a lot more than Riera.Babel have on the left this season, he stayed wide got his heels white, played a couple of decent crosses/passes and could have got himself on score sheet if he'd just manged to make a connection for that header.

      But the main reason I gave him credit for all of the above it must be hard for any player who has no real game time to come in and give a decent steady performance and thats exactly what I thought he did to be honest, without being spectacular and he deserves credit for that in my opinion especially given how much I've slated him. ;)

      Doesn't really matter, he was in the shop window tonight.

      For Darby's mistake at the end, blame the bellends who were moaning at him when he hoofed a clearance (he done the right thing imo) into the lower centenary in the first half. For their 2nd goal he tried to play himself out of trouble (probably remembering the moans and groans from the first half) lost possession and gifted them their second.

      Agree with everything JD said about our defence and it's no use moaning about zonal or man-to-man when the players are slow to react.

      And another thing, we may have gone in a 1-0 at half-time, but for me it was a poor first-half with far too many sloppy passes and that includes players like Gerrard and Benayoun.

      Highlight of the night for me was seeing Pacheco, the lad's got something about him, make no mistake.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #146: Dec 10, 2009 12:29:30 am
      Doesn't really matter, he was in the shop window tonight.


      Matters to me mate and I hope it matters to Rafa players should be picked on merit not on misplaced loyalties etc and to be honest given what Babel and Riera have offered from the left this season I think he merits at least another start.
      tezmac
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #147: Dec 10, 2009 12:30:59 am
      Think Insua looks out of his depth, having a hard time  all the time
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #148: Dec 10, 2009 12:34:45 am
      Think Insua looks out of his depth, having a hard time  all the time

      Have to agree with that, maybe he's suffering from a crisis of confidence/what ever but being a young lad I think Rafa needs to address this and give him a seat on the bench for a few games, its the lesser of two evils for me, you bench him his confidence goes down, he plays and keeps on making mistakes his confidence goes down, at least when his confidence is down on the bench it's not at the expense of errors or points.
      xBooniex
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #149: Dec 10, 2009 12:37:19 am
      Gutted once again but that aside

      Dossena played well his posistioning especially
      Pacheco looked promising
      Stevie gave brilliant delivery all night
      Torres was just Torres :)
      Cav proved he is a very good backup keeper
      Masch seems to of got his head back in the game
      Aquilani gave us much more attacking wise and freed up Stevie to roam

      Now the bad
      Dirk Kuyt is one of my favourite players but he isn't performing well at all this season
      Darby played quite well tbh but i think Kelly would be a better choice (commentator said he may of been injured though?)
      And i just think we are wasting one of our best players in Benny by sticking him on the wing he should be playing more central especially when Torres isn't playing

      Just my two pennies *sorry if it seems like a rant had a couple of drinks to relax :)
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #150: Dec 10, 2009 12:48:58 am
      Did Torres and Pacheco play up front together in a 4-4-2 or was Pacheco playing more in the Gerrard role?
      tezmac
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #151: Dec 10, 2009 01:04:17 am
      why does gerrard never shoot anymore?
      he had space at one point to shhot, faked a shot and TRIED to play through kuyt, failed at this and then kuyt was offside anyway
      couple of years ago hed be banging them in
      Gerrard had a great game tonight how can anyone criticise him his crosses were fantastic just no one got on the end of them. Shame on you
      redkenny
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #152: Dec 10, 2009 01:25:15 am
      I gave Dossena credit for his performance which I stated was solid enough, he had a fairly decent game without being amazing but I feel offered a lot more than Riera.Babel have on the left this season, he stayed wide got his heels white, played a couple of decent crosses/passes and could have got himself on score sheet if he'd just manged to make a connection for that header.

      But the main reason I gave him credit for all of the above it must be hard for any player who has no real game time to come in and give a decent steady performance and thats exactly what I thought he did to be honest, without being spectacular and he deserves credit for that in my opinion especially given how much I've slated him. ;)

      In all honesty, he's deserved a slating in the past. So don't be feeling guilty about that.  ;) And that's probably the major reason why he hasn't featured for so long. But as I said, I don't think he played badly. I just don't think he was amazing. Put it this way. At one point in the second half, someone behind us asked 'when did Dossena come on?'

      Maybe we were all too busy seeing Kuyt getting caught off side when the ball was being played from our own half!!!

      Did Torres and Pacheco play up front together in a 4-4-2 or was Pacheco playing more in the Gerrard role?

      It looked 4-4-2 to me mate.
      jindaldhruv
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #153: Dec 10, 2009 01:46:19 am
      So that's 3 last minute goals conceded by us in Champions League this time and if my calculations serve me correct, have lost us 4 crucial points.  :mad:
      I know its been said a thousand times on the forum, but the defence needs to buck up. Its really getting frustrating now.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #154: Dec 10, 2009 01:56:00 am
      So that's 3 last minute goals conceded by us in Champions League this time and if my calculations serve me correct, have lost us 4 crucial points.  :mad:
      I know its been said a thousand times on the forum, but the defence needs to buck up. Its really getting frustrating now.

      Very true, the defense has lost its head at crucial times. The last minutes should not be that hard to deal with, they all know there could be some pressure coming. To wilt so much really is saddening.

      3 last minute goals, the difference between looking at last 16 of Champions league and the Europa league. That's it in a nutshell.
      Esoteric Mist
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #155: Dec 10, 2009 02:36:19 am
      Did Torres and Pacheco play up front together in a 4-4-2 or was Pacheco playing more in the Gerrard role?
      After pachecho's first few touches i kinda lost him, but it seemed to me that both him and Gerrard were playing in an advanced position in front of mascherano/Aurelio.
      Court LFC
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #156: Dec 10, 2009 03:02:40 am
      Saw the goals.  Kept me head down for this game, depressing feeling when you know you're out.

      Glad Aquilani played, from what I hear he bossed the centre - exactly what we need.  Lucas has shown improvement, but it's time for him to take his seat.
      Joey B
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #157: Dec 10, 2009 04:19:54 am
      Dossena was excellent! I think he was offside once.

      Kuyt was offside atleast 5 times.






      Agree with that.Anyone notice Rafa jump up and mouth the words "Kuyt"right through his gritted teeth?Think Dirk might just be heading for the bench for a while.
      Joey B
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #158: Dec 10, 2009 04:38:24 am
      Gutted once again but that aside

      Dossena played well his posistioning especially
      Pacheco looked promising
      Stevie gave brilliant delivery all night
      Torres was just Torres :)
      Cav proved he is a very good backup keeper
      Masch seems to of got his head back in the game
      Aquilani gave us much more attacking wise and freed up Stevie to roam

      Now the bad
      Dirk Kuyt is one of my favourite players but he isn't performing well at all this season
      Darby played quite well tbh but I think Kelly would be a better choice (commentator said he may of been injured though?)
      And I just think we are wasting one of our best players in Benny by sticking him on the wing he should be playing more central especially when Torres isn't playing

      Just my two pennies *sorry if it seems like a rant had a couple of drinks to relax :)







      Really good post that mate (for a drunk)hence a well deserved + for you.
      Shakesy
      • Forum Paul Ince
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #159: Dec 10, 2009 05:03:43 am
      Gutted once again but that aside

      Dossena played well his posistioning especially
      Pacheco looked promising
      Stevie gave brilliant delivery all night
      Torres was just Torres :)
      Cav proved he is a very good backup keeper
      Masch seems to of got his head back in the game
      Aquilani gave us much more attacking wise and freed up Stevie to roam

      Now the bad
      Dirk Kuyt is one of my favourite players but he isn't performing well at all this season
      Darby played quite well tbh but I think Kelly would be a better choice (commentator said he may of been injured though?)
      And I just think we are wasting one of our best players in Benny by sticking him on the wing he should be playing more central especially when Torres isn't playing

      Just my two pennies *sorry if it seems like a rant had a couple of drinks to relax :)

      This is pretty much spot on, except with Darby. He's only young and I don't want to criticize him too much but the goal wasn't the first time he'd given the ball away, he'd done it at least twice before.

      Also was that Dossena who I seen with mega fast pace down the left wing, someone suprised me with how fast they were but I'm not sure who it was!
      Joey B
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      Re: Liverpool 1 - 2 Fiorentina: Post-match musings
      Reply #160: Dec 10, 2009 05:23:21 am
      Watched the game after getting in late from work.Its taken 45 minutes to read all the posts (phew).Bit sad but could'nt get off to sleep due to the anger from listening to Souness." MELTDOWN"  thats how he described our situation.WTF ?How can the WORST manager we've ever had sit up there (and probably get paid a grand)to slag off LFC.And along side him F****n Klinsman putting in his oar (after Rafa's job no doubt).Sorry Rant over.Back to the game.
      For me lots of good stuff tonight.We must have the BEST back up keeper in the prem.
                                                    
                                                     Pacheco...Stepping up like that from the ressies.(Lots of us on here have been singing his praises for some time
                                                                  now).Showed maturity.
                                                     Mascher...God I hope Rafa talks him into that extension to his contract.
                                                    
                                                     Aquilani... Yer can see the quality is there.Good full debut.Don't agree that he would'nt be suited to the Arsenal
                                                                    game.Hope the Boss plays him (maybe till he tires)

                                                     Stevie G...Defo getting back to top form.  

                                                      Nando... Really wanted that tonight did'nt he ?Big lift for the team.

                                                      Andrea Dossena...I think he was just showing off infront of the Italians.(Best performance in a Red shirt yet).

                                                      Kuyt... &... Insua... Sorry to say it but they both need some bench time!!
      So with Carra & Johnson to come back in really looking forward to Sunday.                                              
                                                      

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