Arsenal 1-0 Liverpool - post match disgruntlement

Hopefully, he is thinking of using him a lot more in future. 

Why?

When we played them at Goodison we were the worst side and won. Fellani was a handfull and our players a had time dealing with him, cahill and pienar.

I suggested they didn't have a plan b the way they appeared to fizzle out in the second half.

I might add, Moyes did us a favour by taking Saha off when he did. They didn't look too clever after he went.

I'm not taking anything away from the performance. They defended as if their lives depended on it. We nicked a goal and rode our luck, not for the first time this season. 

Hmm, really? First off, this isn't the Everton post match thread so why you even brought up that game in the first place is beyond me.

Anyways, i still think your point is bullshit. Are you saying we were lucky to win because Fellani went off? The F***ing microphone on legs should have been red carded before that anyways cos he was being a dirty little F***ing c**t! The only thing i remember about him while he was on was being a F***ing little sh*t. You are giving him undue credit. Fact is, we still were down to 10 men with our in-form defender off the pitch. We were the team without a plan b, apart from play like we wanted it. Aka, passion and belief. And I do believe Everton had a couple of their best chances after Saha went off, so whatever.

The reason they fizzled out is because they were playing against THE best team in Liverpool. End of, lets focus on the match that this thread is about.

Agree with DLS, i would love to see Maxi right, Riera left, Kuyt up top, while we are in this run of no Nando. Seems the best for me.

I used it as an example, because people need to realise you don't need a lot of money to make a team work.

It's too easily used to the point, i think it's becoming a cop out for our short comings.

I used it as an example, because people need to realise you dont need a lot of money to make a team work.

No, you don't. And us in fourth at the moment on no money we are working pretty well, over what we should be then. Everton are still only in 9th, they just had one good game

But you don't win titles on no money.

Mates starting or coming off the bench is about degrees of quality.Yes of course "benchers" can have good games from the off, but by definition, they're on the bench because they can't do it reguarly.When faced with a team selection affected by severel key first team injuries, what do you do as manager? In previous eras we would say play the best of the rest(meaning the best of the Ressies).Nowadays the political structure of the club, and the sh*te reserve league structure, basically means that this is not an option.So the manager whoever he is has to rely on his first team squad in principal.If that squad underperforms he has to change that.If he's given adequate funds to do that and fails then he's out.If he's not given adequate funds then we are where we are now,divided on expectation V's opinion,the most divisive structure in the world.Brothers put aside your'e fears, support the regime reardless of your'e agonotistical views,we are one club, and despite how we see the end call,with or without Rafa is irrelevent.What we need is proper owners not this sh*te.

No, you don't. And us in fourth at the moment on no money we are working pretty well, over what we should be then. Everton are still only in 9th, they just had one good game

But you don't win titles on no money.

Mate, i don't expect us to challenge for the title. I'd just like to see the team play some half decent football for a change.

Even though we have had a good run of late. The footy has hardly been anything to write home about. It gets frustrating watching the amount of loose passes, missed opportunity's, poor control, etc, week in week out.

Last season we were the nuts. Even previous seasons our passing game was on top. This season were lucky if they can string 5 passes together.   

Mate, I don't expect us to challenge for the title. I'd just like to see the team play some half decent football for a change.

Even though we have had a good run of late. The footy has hardly been anything to write home about. It gets frustrating watching the amount of loose passes, missed opportunity's, poor control, etc, week in week out.

Last season we were the nuts. Even previous seasons our passing game was on top. This season were lucky if they can string 5 passes together.   

Yeah i agree with that, we are not good. But we are still getting better at grinding out results. Have you seen manure and Chelsea at times this season? Man city, Spurs? They are all having games like that to, some of manures performances have been woeful (wondeful to see though!). The reason they are up the table though is they have more options to throw out if things need changing. Chelsea have so many high profile options to change it up, we don't. Coupled with our injury crisis and all that, performances like yesterdays are gonna happen a lot. We simply don't have the depth to contend, especially when we have injuries. And then players confidence goes down, and it gets worse. Honestly if a month ago someone said we would go 7 games unbeaten, get a win against Everton despite going down a man, and wins against Spurs and earlier Villa, but you will have to take a 1-0 defeat to Arsenal... i would take it. Just saying things have been improving, all the knee-jerking to the loss against Arsenal is over the top.

Benitez has his faults, but IMO he set up the team well yesterday (apart from the position of players ie Maxi on the left) it was the players that played insipid football.

Fair point, the mancs have been diabolical. If it wasn't for Rooney and the typical manc luck they could be in a worse position.

Yeah, i might have been a bit hasty with my criticism after the game. Too many ciders can send you round the twist. Must lock the laptop up after a session. 

I think the defensive set up was sound. Using Maxi though was a little weird. Considering kuyts vein of form, I'm surprised Maxi and Riera where not used on the wings. Where was Riera? I think he gives us much better attacking flair on the left hand side. Along with being left footed, gives much needed balance and width to the side. He can be a ball greedy sod sometimes. But, he can whip good crosses in when he wants to. Replacing Carra with Degen was a mistake i thought. My heart sunk when he come on. He is great going forwards, but his delivery along with his defensive skills are debatable. Babel not coming on earlier was strange too. I don't like his attitude, but when he come on against Everton he was a nightmare up front. It's a shame it took until it did to make a change.

Yeah i really wanna see Rooney out for 5 games or something. See where they are after that!

All good, i get on the sauce a fair bit as well so i know the feeling. Just check out the 'DRUNK topic'

I would have gone with Riera and Maxi as well. But whether he still is not fully fit? May never know.. I think if Riera was fit and firing, then we would have seen Kuyt up front and Riera Maxi on the wings. Hopefully against the shitty we do!

Why is everybody crying for Babel to have started, the fella during numerous starts has disappointed time and time again. Since the day he arrived at Anfield he has been much better coming off the bench. Or is it simply because Babel had one decent shot during the game (after he'd come off the bench) which has caused such uproar.

Spot on, that.

I haven't gone back through the pre-match thread, but I bet there weren't that many saying Babel should start the match. I agree that he has the best impact when coming on as a sub, the only gripe I have is that he came on a little late, but that's part and parcel of having Rafa as manager. And if he hadn't had that shot on target, I bet there'd be little support for him in this post-match thread. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

I don't want to get caught up in all the penalty debate either. Yes, we've had some rough calls this season, but that's just football. We had the N'Gog penalty dive in our favour, sometimes you get them, others not. It's down to us to make the difference in these matches, we can't just focus on one event.

I don't agree that Arsenal were sitting ducks either. It's not because they lost to Utd and the Chavs that they suddenly became a sh*t side,playing at home they were always going to be difficult. I felt we could have nicked a result or at least a draw, but those who think we should have strolled into the Emirates and played them off the park are, IMO, off their rocker. No big four side is there for the taking, you could say the same thing about us then due to our injuries.

No excuses though, I felt we were poor, though the difference was clearly made when we had to reshuffle the defence. Up until then we'd looked solid at the back, and they didn't have any clear chances.

We need to put this one quickly behind us and regain the focus for the matches to come.

My ideal selection would of been Maxi wide right, Riera on the left and Kuyt up top.

That was the obvious selection up front and out wide for me too.

The reason people are talking about Babel starting is because Ngog gave us so little he disappeared for the 90 minutes and generally looked like he has a long way to go before he is ready for games like this. In 12 minutes on the pitch Babel looked way more dangerous that is why people are calling for him to be started ahead of Ngog.

 It is also a myth to say Babel has had his chance he has started around 28 games in 3 years and never started more than 2 games on the trot. People want to see Babel been given a prolonged run in the team because he is way more talented a player than Ngog.

I agree with the selection of Maxi on the right Riera on the left with Kuyt up top would have given us way more balance and we would have been better as an attacking force. Rafa has something about playing right midfielders out of position on the left.

The reason people are talking about Babel starting is because Ngog gave us so little he disappeared for the 90 minutes and generally looked like he has a long way to go before he is ready for games like this. In 12 minutes on the pitch Babel looked way more dangerous that is why people are calling for him to be started ahead of Ngog.

 It is also a myth to say Babel has had his chance he has started around 28 games in 3 years and never started more than 2 games on the trot. People want to see Babel been given a prolonged run in the team because he is way more talented a player than Ngog.

I agree with the selection of Maxi on the right Riera on the left with Kuyt up top would have given us way more balance and we would have been better as an attacking force. Rafa has something about playing right midfielders out of position on the left.

N'Gog deserved his place after the derby.I used to be very pro Babel but f**k him. He every once in a blue moon comes on in a game and fires off a shot good man Ryan. Any time hes started its like playing with 10 men. Hes afraid of hard work. He also looks for excuse like holding his ankle when mis placing a pass or miscontolling the ball. If he got his finger out of his arse and worked for an entire match then you can say he deserves a chance to start. But 1 trick or 1 shot now and again does not make him worthy

Gutted to say the least!

I'd play Babel ahead of Ngog every time, Ngog is not ready for big matches like the other night, his performance was as bad as any of seen from any Liverpool striker, ya he is young and clearly has a lot to learn but can't he learn in the reserves not in matches like the other night.

 His touch was poor his movement awful and link up play was abysmal. He was pushed off the ball time and time again. Babel is a player of immense potential ya we haven't seen much of it but then Rafa hasn't given Babel the backing he has given players like Ngog and Insua.

 No matter how bad Babel would have played the other night he couldn't have been worse than Ngog.

The reason people are talking about Babel starting is because Ngog gave us so little he disappeared for the 90 minutes and generally looked like he has a long way to go before he is ready for games like this. In 12 minutes on the pitch Babel looked way more dangerous that is why people are calling for him to be started ahead of Ngog.

 It is also a myth to say Babel has had his chance he has started around 28 games in 3 years and never started more than 2 games on the trot. People want to see Babel been given a prolonged run in the team because he is way more talented a player than Ngog.

I agree with the selection of Maxi on the right Riera on the left with Kuyt up top would have given us way more balance and we would have been better as an attacking force. Rafa has something about playing right midfielders out of position on the left.

I am completely agreeing with this post. Babel deserved a start. Ngog was unable to win even a single header from  vermaelen  :-(

N'Gog deserved his place after the derby.I used to be very pro Babel but f**k him. He every once in a blue moon comes on in a game and fires off a shot good man Ryan. Any time hes started its like playing with 10 men. Hes afraid of hard work. He also looks for excuse like holding his ankle when mis placing a pass or miscontolling the ball. If he got his finger out of his arse and worked for an entire match then you can say he deserves a chance to start. But 1 trick or 1 shot now and again does not make him worthy

Some part of your opinion is correct, but look at torres, he is not like Ngog or Kuyt.
He have his own instincts. He know when or how to run , same is applicable for babel. But in some of the matches  he is like a sh***.
Hoping for the best for  babel in our future matches.

I'd play Babel ahead of Ngog every time, Ngog is not ready for big matches like the other night, his performance was as bad as any of seen from any Liverpool striker, ya he is young and clearly has a lot to learn but can't he learn in the reserves not in matches like the other night.

 His touch was poor his movement awful and link up play was abysmal. He was pushed off the ball time and time again. Babel is a player of immense potential ya we haven't seen much of it but then Rafa hasn't given Babel the backing he has given players like Ngog and Insua.

 No matter how bad Babel would have played the other night he couldn't have been worse than Ngog.

Thats not fair. How can you expect a 19 year old whose playing up front on his own to hold up the ball and link up play when

a) he's the furthest player forward?

b) Liverpool are playing long ball?

The goals torres has scored this season have been all because of his own credit. The goals against fulham, west ham. Its all because he created those. Not because it was a team effort. Its got nothing to do with the striker, its the sh*t/sod all service that they get because of the defensive formation and rubbish passing we play each and every match

I want Ngog to show something the other night he showed nothing and looked out of his depth. He is 20 by the way and at that age we were all raving about Babel, Owen and Fowler were hammering in the goals, there was Arsenal players on show the other night of a similar age. Remember Fabergas is 21 not much older than Ngog.

I don't buy his only 20 been an excuse. If we weren't in the financial predictment we are at the moment I have my doubts whether we would have ever saw him in the first team.

Sorry about been so blunt about him as he is young player but I don't think he has a bright future ahead with Liverpool.

I am completely agreeing with this post. Babel deserved a start. Ngog was unable to win even a single header from  vermaelen  :-(

Some part of your opinion is correct, but look at torres, he is not like Ngog or Kuyt.
He have his own instincts. He know when or how to run , same is applicable for babel. But in some of the matches  he is like a sh***.
Hoping for the best for  babel in our future matches.

Bite your F***ing tongue comparing ANYTHING Babel does to Torres. Babel might be a man of ideas, but he can't pull any of them off. He's way too one footed for me, and that's the ONLY reason he should be playing uptop instead of on the wing.

Babel suddenly seems to be the new hero among the fans.
Get aside Lucas, N'gog is the new boy under the spotlight, getting all the stick.

Not with me I've consistently for the last 2 years wanted Babel to be given a chance, my opinion on Ngog hasn't changed either after the other night I don't knee jerk with players I rarely change my opinion.

I'd play Babel ahead of Ngog every time, Ngog is not ready for big matches like the other night, his performance was as bad as any of seen from any Liverpool striker, ya he is young and clearly has a lot to learn but can't he learn in the reserves not in matches like the other night.

 His touch was poor his movement awful and link up play was abysmal. He was pushed off the ball time and time again. Babel is a player of immense potential ya we haven't seen much of it but then Rafa hasn't given Babel the backing he has given players like Ngog and Insua.

 No matter how bad Babel would have played the other night he couldn't have been worse than Ngog.

I can't agree, I can't possibly agree

See the thing is, Babel is on the verge of no longer being considered a young player. I mean, he's 23, if he doesn't start getting it now, when will he get it? 26? 27? Can Liverpool wait that long?

Ngog is 20 years old. He's a kid, he's still getting his feet wet, he hasn't had a breakout stretch of games. But there is one good thing about still being a young kid, and that's the ability to learn. Ngog still has that, we've seen an exponential improvement in his game over the course of the season. I say exponential because he doesn't do a lot of what humbles most players: giving away possession. Yes, you may say he's a striker and he isn't supposed to be in many areas to give away possession. I'd say that we're struggling this season, and our "strikers" have had to spend a lot more time tracking back than they would like, they have to spend a lot more time being a part of the regular build up of possession. What I'm trying to say is that Ngog rarely makes mistakes and he shows flashes of potential. Babel messes up and shows flashes of potential. Sure, Ngog should have buried that break away at the Emirates. But remember... he's 20... it's 0 - 0... it's the Emirates. I mean, I feel like the kid thought about it too much. It happens, it happens to all strikers. At least he got himself in the position to have the chance.

I think Ngog is only a few games away from being relatively comfortable in the squad. I mean, if he can get himself a goal for all his hard work, then he'll be fine. All he needs is a goal, and two! that would just set him off. The good news is, all we need him for is a few more matches, then some of our other players will be coming back fit. We'll be strengthening the squad and Ngog's job will be done for now.

Babel has a bad attitude. He's only playing now because he's trying to make the world cup squad. I think it's a cop out. I think he's just trying to save his own ass before his career as a professional footballer stalls. I think if he got anywhere decent he'd leave us in an instant. Ngog can be nurtured and even if we only keep him for 3 or 4 years. Hopefully 3 or 4 years from now LFC will be in a better place. It's cheaper to get players while they're young, and have their name blossom under your banner, then to buy and try to convert them in the future. We know this. I say, give Ngog more of a chance. I think he has done a lot more than Babel has to at least get this far. I say we stick with him.

Hey give Ngog a break. Yes he had a below average game against arsenal, but what do u expect from not a regular starter?
Its good that he played against 1 of the big 4 & an away game 2 cuz these is where they make mistake & learn from it. You cant get this exp from reserve game.
Also its not right to compare the likes of owen & fowler cuz they are geting more games then him & this is where i believe exp do play a part. May b the presure just got 2 him.
Not sure the manager is showing him his play from video but do believe it will help the likes of young players improve.
Give him more games especially the high profile ones cuz i do believe by then the presure is norm to him.