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      Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection

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      shabbadoo
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #138: Feb 21, 2010 09:16:08 pm
      I think if you look at the bigger picture a 1 point gained is better than a 3 point loss,just because we sit 6th its doomsday again.
      How would most of us feel if we lost today? gutted.
      All the so called pretenders have got tougher run in than us,todays point was massive.
      Brian78
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #139: Feb 21, 2010 09:18:57 pm
      Funny how a lot of people have changed their tune after Thursday nights shambles. I remember getting grief for daring to suggest we were pitiful in attack, devoid of any invention and lack the basic ability of passing forwards.
       

      Not me. I always had a bee in me bonnit with our passing
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #140: Feb 21, 2010 09:26:30 pm
      Well, well, well. Another boring, mind numbing match, was horrible to watch. Once again the creativity debate arises and it is becoming a way too familiar occurence this season. City were awful, once again we faced a team that were there for the taking, once again we failed to go for the throat. This 4-2-3-1 formation is a great system, as was proved last season, but without certain players, it is proving very difficult to emulate this season, in fact it's proving impossible. Without Fernando Torres this system is defunct, we do not have another striker at the club that can play the lone striker role to good effect.

      Now Rafa is a great manager, of that I have no doubt, but what infuriates me is that he persists with this system when it is so obviously failing thus far, especially with Nando's long injury problems. Without Torres we must play a 4-4-2 system, we must be able to adapt our system to absorb the loss of certain players. People are going on about Gerrard's lack of impact in the 'hole', well it's the same 'hole' he plays in when Torres is playing. The difference this season is that the players around them are not up to the task of playing the 4-2-3-1 system, this is painfully obvious to see.

      My biggest gripe is Rafa's constant persistence with Lucas Leiva, come May of this year, Lucas will have been here for 3 years, and I for one am failing to see this dramatic improvement that many others here are seeing. I know he is not a direct replacement for Alonso, but he does occupy that position since Xabi's departure. When Rafa brought him from Gremio he stated that Lucas was an attacking midfielder who could get into the box and score goals. Not my words, the words of Rafa. I have yet to see this midfielder who he speaks of. Some people are saying that Lucas is being moulded into a defensive midfielder, well if he is, then that's fine, but this system has no room in it for 2 players of this nature, and for me, Masch is undroppable. For a supposed attacking, box to box midfielder, Lucas shows no attacking prowess at all.

      The partner for Masch has to be creative, that is the duty of the holding midfielder ahead of Masch in this particular system. It's no use saying that Mascherano has to up his offensive game, he is there to do a job, the same job he did last season. And he is very f**king good at it, better than Lucas will ever be. It is this particular role that is the cause of most of our problems on the pitch this season, it is there for all to see. The Torres/Gerrard partnership thrives on intricate through balls, incisive passing and intelligent gameplay. Such is the high level of game intelligence between Torrres and Gerrard, then they have to have a player of equal, or at the very least, almost equal game intelligence to play in that role.

      Going back to the 4-4-2 system, without Torres I'd be quite happy with a dual strike force of Kuyt/Babel/NGog/Pacheco. Drop Gerrard back into centre midfield with Mascherano. With the 4-2-3-1 system I'd put Aquilani in the hole and have Gerrard back in the centre also. I'm not quite sure Aquilani is up to the task of playing the central midfield role just yet, he's had a rough ride since he arrived, and Rafa refuses to give him a run of games to build his confidence. When he has played in the hole he has looked more comfortable, the season is too far gone now for Aquilani to make a strong impression, especially with his injury problems and extensive recuperation period.

      Sorry for rambling, even though the points I'm making are directly attributed to the game today and the season as a whole. Rafa's reluctance to attack teams that are there for the taking could be a major stumbling block come May. As Brian78 rightly pointed out, our passing game has been shocking lately, an inabilty to master the basics of the game is going to do little for our Champions League aspirations. A couple of weeks ago Rafa stated that he had sorted the defence out and was now going to concentrate on the attacking side of our game. His decisions have done little to back that statement up. The defence has been tightened up and has vastly improved, but I see no signs of any improvement from an attacking perspective.

      The run in is going to be very interesting. If we have any serious intention of getting that 4th spot then we have to attack teams. The return of Torres and Benayoun can only help us, but we have to gel together if we are to put any sort of run together. Skrtel or Mascherano were my MOTM today, but that save by Reina from Adebayor was world class and earned us the point. But Reina has had too many MOTM this season so it's Masch or Skrtel for me. With the return of Torres and Benayoun it makes for an interesting run in and I am eager to see how Rafa sets out his stall when we host Blackburn at Anfield.

      For me, the choice of partner for Masch will determine his tactics, I pray that it isn't Lucas.    IRWT
      hobbithead
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #141: Feb 21, 2010 09:27:56 pm
      I think if you look at the bigger picture a 1 point gained is better than a 3 point loss,just because we sit 6th its doomsday again.
      How would most of us feel if we lost today? gutted.
      All the so called pretenders have got tougher run in than us,todays point was massive.

      The day we settle for a point is the day Liverpool football club dies. We should be setting our stall out to win every game. I have not seen anything in our last 5 games to suggest we are capable of reaching fourth place.  
      corballyred
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #142: Feb 21, 2010 09:34:50 pm
      That is an excellant post hardcore the best post on here you hit the nail on the head with a lot of what you said.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #143: Feb 21, 2010 09:42:06 pm
      That is an excellant post hardcore the best post on here you hit the nail on the head with a lot of what you said.

      Thanks mate, just echoing what a lot of us are thinking. I'd rather see us playing the Liverpool Way, as this is most certainly not.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #144: Feb 21, 2010 09:46:54 pm
      Having said that, is it not possible to teach them at all? Surely the "runs" can be taught and be "executed" on the pitch, no?

      Not when the majority of the team seem to have simply forgotten how to move after playing a pass! It's more or less get the ball, stop, pass, stop, move, wait to receive ball and etc etc.

      One thing that really does my head in is players not moving to the ball, which is why a lot of our play stops, because no one moves and the opposition intercept.
      Gow
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #145: Feb 21, 2010 09:51:10 pm
      What does my head in is seeing our players getting the ball and dribbling desperately around 2 or 3 of their players but running towards their own f***in goal!! If you can do it going backwards, then why can't you do it going forwards aswell?
      corballyred
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #146: Feb 21, 2010 09:59:48 pm
      It will actually be a tough job for the Match of the day team tonight trying to get highlights out of that match.
      Gow
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #147: Feb 21, 2010 10:01:44 pm
      Oh joy. Football First is just starting.
      JD
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #148: Feb 21, 2010 10:04:20 pm
      Some people need to get a F***ing grip with their comments.

      You'd think we were bottom, not just drew against the world's richest club away from home.
      Pepe Reina
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #149: Feb 21, 2010 10:10:36 pm
      Happy with the draw. Not many teams go to moneybags City and get a draw, nevermind a win.

      Skrtel was immense, looks like he's going back to the good ol' 08 days. I have no idea who to play at the back when Johnson comes back, gonna be tough for Rafa.


      shabbadoo
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #150: Feb 21, 2010 10:16:09 pm
      The day we settle for a point is the day Liverpool football club dies. We should be setting our stall out to win every game.


      Wake up!  So a point gained is nothing in your eyes then! what would you say if we won the leauge by one point?
      All teams set out thier stalls to win every game not just liverpool.A loss today could have really damaged us.
      hardcoresoldier
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #151: Feb 21, 2010 10:24:28 pm
      Some people need to get a f**king grip with their comments.

      You'd think we were bottom, not just drew against the world's richest club away from home.

      Apologies if my comments have offended you, but i for one am not happy that we got a point against a City side that were there for the taking. Irrespective of the fact that they are unbeaten at home this season. Once again there was a distinct lack of creativity, Lucas Leiva, i repeat, Lucas Leiva is not the man for the 4-2-3-1 system.
      corballyred
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #152: Feb 21, 2010 10:30:30 pm
      Just watching Downing scoring 2 goals from centre midfield for Villa, that is what I want from my midfielders some sort of attacking threat.
      hobbithead
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #153: Feb 21, 2010 10:33:33 pm

      Wake up!  So a point gained is nothing in your eyes then! what would you say if we won the league by one point?
      All teams set out their stalls to win every game not just liverpool.A loss today could have really damaged us.

      Wake up?

      ;D, win the league by a point, i think you need to wake up.

      Answer your own question at the end of the season when we are short of points needed to make fourth. Need reminding of why we didn't win the league last season. Too many draws.

      It's depressing it really is. To see how low we have sunk in such a short space of time. I just hope the damage hasn't already been done and nando can pull us out of this mess with the remaining games we have. I'd quite happily look like a dummy, and be completely wrong if it secures fourth place. If we can't break teams down who want to have a go. What on earth are we going to do against teams that park the bus in front of goal?  :-[
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #154: Feb 21, 2010 10:37:49 pm
      Wake up?

      ;D, win the league by a point, I think you need to wake up.

      Answer your own question at the end of the season when we are short of points needed to make fourth. Need reminding of why we didn't win the league last season. Too many draws.

      It's depressing it really is. To see how low we have sunk in such a short space of time. I just hope the damage hasn't already been done and nando can pull us out of this mess with the remaining games we have. I'd quite happily look like a dummy, and be completely wrong if it secures fourth place. If we can't break teams down who want to have a go. What on earth are we going to do against teams that park the bus in front of goal?  :-[
      Get on the bus!
      As for winning the leauge by 1 point i did not mean this season.
      LFC Viking
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #155: Feb 21, 2010 10:39:41 pm
      Just watching MOTD, unlucky miss that header of Skrtel's, would have been in if he'd just angled it a little differently
      thereds13
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #156: Feb 21, 2010 10:44:40 pm
      I'm happy with the draw we might be lacking in creativity but hopefully the return of Yossi and Torres will bring some creativity bck into the team. Also i think Rafa should have a word with Masch if he had been sent off today it would have been the third time this season and we cant afford to lose on of our best players for the third time this season because of a suspension
      corballyred
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #157: Feb 21, 2010 10:46:28 pm
      Bilic going on about the 2 defensive midfielders not working as well, they slated the game an honest summing up of the game to be honest. They are only saying what a lot of us on here are.
      JD
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #158: Feb 21, 2010 10:49:45 pm
      Bilic going on about the 2 defensive midfielders not working as well, they slated the game an honest summing up of the game to be honest. They are only saying what a lot of us on here are.

      Bilic was providing an interesting point until he said we were a rich club.

      Then I realised he's been away from English football for too long. 
      corballyred
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #159: Feb 21, 2010 10:52:11 pm
      Ya JD agree thought he was talking a lot of sense was impressed by him till he said about the rich club as well.
      redkenny
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      Re: Man City 0-0 Liverpool - post match dissection
      Reply #160: Feb 21, 2010 10:58:08 pm
      Bilic was spot on about the Insua example. Insua was static rather than moving forward to give Gerrard an option or at least make some space for other players.

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