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      Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out

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      racerx34
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #230: Mar 09, 2010 10:37:38 am
      Yep. I really feel weird this season. Ive never felt this feeling of loss, of watching a team with no heart.

      It really hurts. I had tears in my eyes at the end, mostly from just watching players that are my hero's not give a sh*t.

      F***ing hurts.


      So it wasn't just me. Had to apologise to my girlfriend/fiance for being in such a stinker of a mood last night. I have never felt so angry after a football match in my life. I know these players are better than what I saw last night.
      LFC-Red
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #231: Mar 09, 2010 10:52:22 am
      No it doesn't. Players AND manager.

      Just watched it. Was in school today, so I recorded the match and stayed off all internet to watch without knowing the score.

      Never. Doing. That. AGAIN!!!

      How abysmal. F***ing horrible. Useless. Gutless. I just don't know what to say.

      Everyone takes the blame today. Manager, players, everyone. But its equal share. Im sick of the knee-jerking blaming ALL on Rafa, and then some who say Rafa takes no cake. He should have made changes earlier. But he certainly doesn't take the burden today. Because today was the players playing like schoolgirls. Actually, worse than that. Ive seen some womans college ball thats a lot better than that!!

      What I will say is this. That team Rafa put out was one that was put out to win. It was attacking. I dunno how many posts of seen about dropping Gerrard back, and it was done. We had Yossi left, Maxi right. Anyone who knows nothing of our current form but just the reputations of those players would say "Win!" and then we had Kuyt in the hole, again "Win!" Simply, it was a team that should be winning comfortably.

      But alas, the missing component. HEART! FFS. I think the last time I really saw any great emotion from this team was when Hyypia played his last minutes. They all look f**king useless. Gerrard was woeful, Kuyt was woeful, Insua was woeful, etc etc etc. F***ing unbelievable.

      Rafa has made some baffling choices at times, but if this same set-up went out last season we would have battered them. Its the heart of the players that is costing us the most right now, not the manager.

      I have never, ever hoped for a season to end. I hate it when I see the fixture list dwindling down. But my god, I can't wait to the summer.

      Worst performance ive seen. And ive been saying that far to often this season.

      Erm.................... Yes it does.


      Yep. I really feel weird this season. Ive never felt this feeling of loss, of watching a team with no heart.

      It really hurts. I had tears in my eyes at the end, mostly from just watching players that are my hero's not give a sh*t.

      F***ing hurts.


      Is that because you started supporting us post Istanbul?
      Fan 86
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #232: Mar 09, 2010 10:54:06 am
      Never thought i would ever see a performance worse than the Reading game earlier in the season,but i was proved wrong last night.Absolutley gutted this morning worse than i have ever felt before.
      The Guiness was flowing far to freely last night and at least that numbed the pain,but reality has hit home now.
      What a difference a year makes.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #233: Mar 09, 2010 10:55:10 am
      Erm.................... Yes it does.

      No, it doesn't. Im not saying it doesn't at all, but it never is fully on the manager unless 100% of the blame can be attributed to him and that nothing the players did is at fault. See what im saying? The players last night were set up in a way that we should have battered them. But they were the ones who played like a team of headless chooks, not Rafa.

      I don't know how anyone can witness last nights game and say 'the buck stops with the manager.'
      JD
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #234: Mar 09, 2010 10:55:27 am
      Is that because you started supporting us post Istanbul?
      Knock it off.
      Henrik577
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #235: Mar 09, 2010 10:56:32 am
      Erm.................... Yes it does.



      Is that because you started supporting us post Istanbul?

      dont be so precious
      LFC-Red
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #236: Mar 09, 2010 11:03:04 am
      The manager delivers the instructions and they are probably the same instructions that he delivered last season when we finished 2nd. The problem is we over achieved last season and the players think they have made it! The manager shouldnt have to train international footballers how to pass and move the ball! The manger shouldnt have to tell the players they need to track runners and just generally sit off and let Wigan play! If you think the manager would have said to the players go out and play like a bunch of donkeys then you are sadly mistaken! He can only do so much but if the players who cross the white line are incapable of finding the whole in their own a*se then how is that the managers fault!

      I didnt see to many people questioning the managers training methods, tactics etc last season.................. The problem is the players who think that one good season means that the work is done and things will just happen! Nobody wants to grab the team by the scruff of the neck and drive them forward and I think its time to start leaving people out! Starting with Mr Gerrard, that might be the kick up the a*se they need!!!

      Do you actually believe that players like Carra and Gerrard think they've "made it"?

      The manager should be getting the most out of his players whether they are international or not. And the fact of the matter is, he isn't.

      'Sitting off and letting Wigan play', deary me. Rafa is hardly a cavalier manager and he DOES set his teams up to soak up, pressure, push the opposition. Under Rafa we defend as a unit (nothing wrong with that) but because of that we are comprimised up top. He has NEVER found the balance between defending misely and attacking dynamically.

      We've gone stale under Rafa and he's taken us as far as he can.

      Like I said, no manager would of ever been sacked if every chairman laid blame on the players' door. Unfortunately for him, his players aren't playing for him, therefore he's gotta go. Its as simple as that.


      No, it doesn't. Im not saying it doesn't at all, but it never is fully on the manager unless 100% of the blame can be attributed to him and that nothing the players did is at fault. See what im saying? The players last night were set up in a way that we should have battered them. But they were the ones who played like a team of headless chooks, not Rafa.

      I don't know how anyone can witness last nights game and say 'the buck stops with the manager.'

      Quite simple really, HE ISN'T GETTING THE BEST OUT OF THE PLAYERS AT HIS DISPOSAL!
      arvindram
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #237: Mar 09, 2010 11:04:50 am
      Gutted. Never saw us playing like this for 20 years I've been following us. Something has to change because if we miss the CL next season the spiral effect will come into play and we'll be sucked into mid table ablivion.

      We have to get 4th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
      JD
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #238: Mar 09, 2010 11:05:06 am
      Quite simple really, HE ISN'T GETTING THE BEST OUT OF THE PLAYERS AT HIS DISPOSAL!
      Fair point.  The players are not performing to their maximum and at the end of the day the buck does stop with the manager.
      Henrik577
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #239: Mar 09, 2010 11:06:40 am
      Gutted. Never saw us playing like this for 20 years I've been following us. Something has to change because if we miss the CL next season the spiral effect will come into play and we'll be sucked into mid table ablivion.

      We have to get 4th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(

      4th is gone...........
      LFC-Red
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #240: Mar 09, 2010 11:08:51 am
      Fair point.  The players are not performing to their maximum and at the end of the day the buck does stop with the manager.

      hallelujah!



      Don't be so precious.
      Henrik577
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #241: Mar 09, 2010 11:10:32 am
      hallelujah!



      Don't be so precious.

      ha ha
      fazza21
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #242: Mar 09, 2010 11:11:12 am

      The manager should be getting the most out of his players whether they are international or not. And the fact of the matter is, he isn't.

      He has NEVER found the balance between defending misely and attacking dynamically.


      You have a very very short memory.

      Last season Rafa got the best out of every player in the side. So we no hes capable of doing it.

      We also no hes capable of finding the balance between defence and attack, as he showed last season. My opinion is that hes using the wrong players for the system and has done all season, i don't think lucas is upto the job and i believe arbeloa has a more all round game than what johnson has. Also remember tgat we haven't had nando for most of the season and we are a completely different side when hes in it. Dont be a smart ass and throw last nights performance/result in my face after making that statement because you no its true.

      Only thing i agree with you is that we have gone abit stale. I dont agree however that Rafa has taken as far as he can. If clubs sacked their managers after not progressing on the previous season every time, then teams would be sacking their managers every 2, every 3 seasons.

      We've had a woefull season, but i don't think sacking the manager is the right thing to do. Rafa is a very good manager and i've seen you say that before LFC-red. He's the best we can get so it would be absolutely ridiculous to sack him. Would you really want Klinsman or some idiot like that managing the side instead? Really?

      Whatever you or anybody think of Rafa is fine, your entitled to your opinion and if you believe LFC will be better off without him then fair enough, however, i can't believe or understand that you don't think hes done enough at his time at LFC to deserve another chance to prove you wrong.
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #243: Mar 09, 2010 11:12:25 am
      "We've gone stale under Rafa and he's taken us as far as he can."

      I don't agree mate, sorry. This season we have gone stale, that I can't argue with, but last third of last season, we were playing the best attacking football I had seen from LFC since the 'spice boys' era of macmanaman, redknapp, fowler and co.

      And finishing 3rd, 3rd and 4th in the three years previously isn't the sign of a team going stale. i don't want to get into an argument, i just have faith in rafa and we should stick by him.

      besides, who would you have instead? i wouldn't swap him for anyone out there.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #244: Mar 09, 2010 11:17:34 am
      Quite simple really, HE ISN'T GETTING THE BEST OUT OF THE PLAYERS AT HIS DISPOSAL!

      I get ya meaning there, but there is a point where the balance tips and the onus is on the player to give themselves a kick up the arse. And i think we are at that point. Yeah, Rafa may be coming to the end of the line, it does seem that way. But i for one think the players are crucifying him unfairly with the way they are playing, and that is not all on the manager.

      He has managed to get the best out of them, even more than the best, in previous years. So we know he can. And then that says to me he would be trying his best now as well. The players have to respond, and whatever issues they have with the behind the scenes of the club, they need to do it. There's no excuses. They are playing sh*t, and should not be pardoned in any way by 'the buck stops with the manager'
      LFC-Red
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #245: Mar 09, 2010 11:31:31 am
      You have a very very short memory.

      Last season Rafa got the best out of every player in the side. So we no hes capable of doing it.

      We also no hes capable of finding the balance between defence and attack, as he showed last season. My opinion is that hes using the wrong players for the system and has done all season, I don't think lucas is upto the job and I believe arbeloa has a more all round game than what johnson has. Also remember tgat we haven't had nando for most of the season and we are a completely different side when hes in it. Dont be a smart ass and throw last nights performance/result in my face after making that statement because you no its true.

      Only thing I agree with you is that we have gone abit stale. I dont agree however that Rafa has taken as far as he can. If clubs sacked their managers after not progressing on the previous season every time, then teams would be sacking their managers every 2, every 3 seasons.

      We've had a woefull season, but I don't think sacking the manager is the right thing to do. Rafa is a very good manager and I've seen you say that before LFC-red. He's the best we can get so it would be absolutely ridiculous to sack him. Would you really want Klinsman or some idiot like that managing the side instead? Really?

      Whatever you or anybody think of Rafa is fine, your entitled to your opinion and if you believe LFC will be better off without him then fair enough, however, I can't believe or understand that you don't think hes done enough at his time at LFC to deserve another chance to prove you wrong.


      But, is he capable of turning things around. There is a very big difference between the two situations (last season and this) and thus far the answer is emphatically NO.

      If that is your opinion and your a layman like myself, why are the club paying a man 5 Million a year to play the wrong players in the wrong positons etc?

      And while we spent 18 Milion on a fullback and 20 Million on an Italian who when fit doesn't get a game. Do you not think a priority of Rafa's should of been buying adequate cover for Torres?. Relying on a young French lad for most of the campaign when 'we're supposed to be title challenging side' isn't the way to go about things. His mistake, yet agian.

      Heaven help us.

      I'd like a manager he can get the best out of his players.

      The fast becoming distant memory of Istanbul is not the reason fans should be backing Rafa. Had he not won that cup I'd guarentee half the Rafalites here would not be defending him. However, one swallow doesn't make a summer and that swallow flew by five years ago. It's about the present and future, where we're heading, and under Rafa we're heading down a cul de sac.

      shabbadoo
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #246: Mar 09, 2010 11:33:16 am
      Gerrad and kuyt and yossi need to be dropped.Insua well little said the better.Wigan played good football thier movement was good and at times made us look sh*t.
      artc
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #247: Mar 09, 2010 11:35:00 am
      The players should be ashamed of themselves and they ask for our support, I'd rather give it to anyone but that pathetic shower of overpaid underachieving so called footballers, who the hell do they think they are, they strolled round as if they all wanted to be elsewhere, i would grant them their wish,i will say that the only one who showed any sign of wanting to play was Torres, but with the passes he was (not) receiving never gave him a chance and i think in the end he just gave up. It makes you wonder if they want to play for Benitez, or were they all saving themselves for Thursday, or were they told to take it easy,some of the stupid fouls they were booked for showed their lack of commitment, if this is the best they can do then let's sell them and give the reserves a run out, at least if they get beat it won't be for the lack of trying. Bloody awful display.
      Ov3rdose
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #248: Mar 09, 2010 11:35:54 am
      Had a nap at half time, but fell asleep when Aqua came on. It looked that the players only played because they had to, not because they wanted to. Rafa should keep most of the 1st team players on the bench against Portsmouth. The reserves at least would want to show what they can do, not just play because they are payed to do that.
      LFC-Red
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #249: Mar 09, 2010 11:36:54 am
      "We've gone stale under Rafa and he's taken us as far as he can."

      I don't agree mate, sorry. This season we have gone stale, that I can't argue with, but last third of last season, we were playing the best attacking football I had seen from LFC since the 'spice boys' era of macmanaman, redknapp, fowler and co.

      And finishing 3rd, 3rd and 4th in the three years previously isn't the sign of a team going stale. I don't want to get into an argument, I just have faith in rafa and we should stick by him.

      besides, who would you have instead? I wouldn't swap him for anyone out there.

      Mike Bassett.
      Glenbuck
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #250: Mar 09, 2010 12:09:18 pm
      As a Reds fan for over forty years now my next statement may seem contradictory to the word ‘fan’ but for the first time in god knows how many years I actually thought we would lose last night, if you take into account the fact that I like a lot of supporters never see anything but a Liverpool win even if we are away at Man U. and going through the worst form imaginable  you will see last nights lack of optimism was far removed from the normal rabid biased red supporters path I normally follow.

      We have been picking up points lately playing the most uninspiring football I have seen in many a year but beggars cant be choosers and whilst it would be nice to replicate the powerful attacking style we seemed to master last year at this stage of the season getting the points to propel us into fourth is all that matters no matter how they are obtained. A problem I do have with this scrappy style of winning games is there is such a fine line between winning the points and losing them as picking up points in games when maybe you shouldn’t can just flatter to deceive even if Man Utd do seem to have attained some of their recent triumphs by employing those tactics successfully!

      So we get to last nights match, away at Wigan a team struggling to get points from anyone, a team with no players to fear a team with no secret weapon as in Stokes case and most importantly a team with Titus Bramble at the back when frankly Alan Carr could do a better job. I didn’t see all these factors as reasons we would win more a really well put case as to why we would lose add to that the Market Garden they call a pitch (I know both teams had to play on it) and honestly I could see us coming home with nil points from the WD40 stadium.
      Last night for the first time Liverpool exposed all their frailties for all to see, everyone to a man looks unhappy and totally oblivious to what their role in the team actually is, Gerrard and Carra so long untouchable to criticism of any sort look frustrated and bemused as they struggle constantly to gain some of the form we know they are capable of and once our bedrocks begin to doubt it doesn’t take long for the rest of the team to follow suit.

      Defensively only Kyriakos came out the game with any sort of respectability but seeing we had the afore mentioned out of sorts Carra, the out of position Masch and the out of his depth Insua to compare with anyone slightly on his game would have come across in the same way. In midfield we had Benayoun and Maxi on the flanks well I say flanks but to be honest they spent more time inside than the Kray twins did as they constantly wandered into the middle and helped to bung up an already over congested midfield, a midfield that contained a despondent Stevie G who frankly has so alarmingly lost form I can only wonder how happy he still is at Liverpool and whilst no player would be happy with our current form its times like these the Captain needs to step up (again) and not be moaning at players and flicking V signs at referees even if he is frustrated with the ineptitude of those around him. As for Lucas all that can be said has been said before and the longer he stays in a red shirt the more detrimental it is to a manager I once had 100% belief in.

      Attack wise we had Kuyt a fantastic professional with a marvellous attitude but alas sadly lacking in what it takes to add some thrust offensively, yes he works hard but so does Jimmy Bullard and I don’t want him playing for us either. Torres is obviously as fed up as everyone else and also trying to gain match fitness and find his eye for goal again so his Stevie Wonder finishing in front of goal last night can be overlooked.
      We are having a nightmare season and it doesn’t seem to be improving anytime soon and when you see Rafa come out and actually blame the team for their own inept performance rather than that of a team using bully boy tactics or a ref who didn’t go to Spec savers you know we are in worrying times indeed especially given Rafa’s previous unshakeable belief in his players now seems to be tested to the limit.

      There are 101 reasons for this seasons dilemma’s and they will not be rectified by just sacking a manager or welcoming a new sugar daddy in to replace Cagney and Lacey, numerous changes need to be made before we can even steady the club never mind drive onwards and upwards, frankly it is not the loss of next years Champions league participation that worries me more the fact we may be embarrassingly replaced in that competition by Villa, City or Spurs! It’s A bit like Barca or Real Madrid giving way to Sporting Gijon.
       
      I Love Liverpool more than I can say as we have been through so much together so please who ever is still left at our club who shares the passion could they please pull their finger out and sort this mess out before we implode into mediocrity.

      I haven’t posted for a while as I feared nothing but blind faith was becoming the norm on these boards and anyone who criticised the manager or the team was swiftly shot down and regarded as not a true fan, but as they say ‘I cant take it no more’ and just wanted to blow off some steam, here’s to a trouncing of Lille on Thursday and all my worries being forgotten because never forget
      we are Liverpool FC. ;)



      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #251: Mar 09, 2010 12:11:42 pm
      Top post Glenbuck :)
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Wigan 1-0 Liverpool: Post Match Nuclear Fall Out
      Reply #252: Mar 09, 2010 12:12:12 pm

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