Our Financial State and manager ideas.

I hate to think of this being the case, but I think I need reasurring. If we don't qualify for the champions league this year, then does this mean we'll be in some serious financial s**t?
I mean will we have to start selling our top players just to keep afloat? I hate to put a downer on things, but I can't just help but compare this with Leeds' situation, I.E fall out of champions league, sell our top players, start falling down the league and eventually administration?

Someome with an idea of big business reassure me please as to be honest, I fear the worst for us with Hicks and Gillett in charge.

And another thing. IF rafa was to go for whatever reason (maybe torres is forced out the owners for a big wage and rafa as promised leaves), who do you think would be a suitable man to take the role? I personally think if rafa was to be properly funded then we would be out of this sh***y mess, but I'd like to hear your ideas.

We're in serious financial trouble as it is lad, and will remain so regardless of Champions League qualification or not. The only difference being we may be able to hold on to our star players if we're in Europe's premier competition because we'll be able to offer it to them, whereas if we don't make the top four this year then other clubs will be able to offer them Champions League football which may tempt them away from Anfield.

But like I said, regardless of making the top four or not we will be in financial sh*t and will remain so as long as Hicks and Gillett are in charge of the club.

Will we do a Leeds and end up in the third tier of English football? I don't think we will but of course it is possible, it's possible for any side to go into the obscurity of League 1. But the important thing now is to ensure we are in the Champions League next year and that means by putting all our efforts into matters on the pitch.

Thing I'm slightly concerned about - people have been saying if we don't get into the CL, H&G may be forced to sell.

However, is there a possibillity that the club will then move into the hands of an owner(s) that are 'less rich'?

I don't think there is less rich ross then our 2, all there money is tied up in loans property etc I'd say this have very little disposable cash.

It looks like Hicks sale of Texas Rangers has also hit a hitch. Whoever comes in has to be capable of meeting our interest repayments something our owners will be incapable of doing if we don't get Champions League football.

We and the scum are responsible for over 50% of the debt on football clubs in Europe.

Fact.

I dont care about the scum. I hate them. They can go down the toilet. Love it.
 


I care about our beloved club who I have supported since 1962.

Good to see somebody openly admit they aren't aware of the depth of our financial problems.  I am certain having read some comments that quite a lot of people aren't.

Let's just clear this up.  Champions League, or no Champions League we are in trouble.

We need to magic £100M to pay back this summer or RBS will call in the entire £250M loan.

A potential £15M or whatever it is from Champions League qualification (which even if we finish 4th remember, isn't assured as you must 'qualify') is pissing in the wind.

Liverpool's performance last year brought in more money than the 'football' ever has at Liverpool and Rafa was rewarded by still having to sell to buy.

Dirk Kuyt on the right, Rafa yabba yabba - the overriding concern for the future of Liverpool Football Club is the removal of the two fraudsters running the shop. 

Mate the facts are that the owners currently owe £237M to the banks,this results in annual interest repayments of £44M.So far they have not been prepared to repay this with their own money,so the club's revenue from the EPL and Europe,plus income from player sales has funded this,so success on the field has masked lack of investment off it.Now we are experiencing a downturn in performance on-field,coupled with a lack of financial commitment in the boardroom.The consequences of this, are relative to the club concerned,in the case of Leeds and Portsmouth,both clubs with quality local support,the results were dire.In our case. we are a global brand,so our future is less painfull.Yes we will suffer,but that's on a fan's expectation level,currently we have no right to expect anything above a top 7 placing.I prefer to wait until the end of the season to justify my comments,but trust me brothers,there will be a lot to discuss come the end of the season.For what it's worth, IRIT.

Definitely made things a lot clearer for me.

We need to magic £100M to pay back this summer or RBS will call in the entire £250M loan.

JD - Im also confused about this and in particular your comment above.

Does this mean that the owners will then be forced to pay the money out of their own pockets if they have it or sell the club at a lower asking price..?

Thanks

I've got a frightening scenario. Man City get into the Champions League and then have the money and prestige to attract any player they want. Our only hope then is that United fall even further than we do. I'm really not looking forward to this summer. To clear the debt and start a stadium we need in the region of 400M. We can but dream at this point as the reality of our owners has worn everyone from the manager to the fans down to our core

JD - Im also confused about this and in particular your comment above.

The bank have said that £100M of the loan must be repaid this summer.  They do not feel comfortable having a loan of nearly £250M against the club.

The owners have said they are not putting any of their own money in to the club.

So either someone comes along with £100M for a share in the club, Liverpool sell players to the tune of £100M, or RBS call in the loan and take control of the club and then begin ways to find their full £250M owed.

The bank have said that £100M of the loan must be repaid this summer.  They do not feel comfortable having a loan of nearly £250M against the club.

The owners have said they are not putting any of their own money in to the club.

So either someone comes along with £100M for a share in the club, Liverpool sell players to the tune of £100M, or RBS call in the loan and take control of the club and then begin ways to find their full £250M owed.

Option 3 the most likely outcome which would see the bank selling the likes of Torres to get there cash back. Option 2 is the only other way which again would mean the selling of the likes of Torres. What a situation we find ourselves in

I know the situation is quite depressing, but I fully believe there is light at the end of the tunnel, as in I think the 2 Venereal Diseases will sell for a lower price and we can look to forward to new ownership.

Let's face it, any owner is better than this sh*t, as the only worse owner than this, would be Satan himself!

It may be blindly optimistic, but deep down I think there's going to be major and positive change in the summer, as it simply cannot go on like this.

Would RBS taking control be a bad thing?

If the bank took your house back off you would it be a bad thing

However, is there a possibillity that the club will then move into the hands of an owner(s) that are 'less rich'?

I don't think there is less rich ross then our 2, all there money is tied up in loans property etc I'd say this have very little disposable cash.

Took the words right out of my mouth. Good "awareness" topic this.

either someone comes along with £100M for a share in the club, Liverpool sell players to the tune of £100M, or RBS call in the loan and take control of the club and then begin ways to find their full £250M owed.

This is the situation in a nutshell.

Obviously everyone's biggest fear is the second option - selling players to refund the loan. Whilst it's possible it could happen, I don't think it's likely. If the owners sold all our best players without replacing them, it's clear the value of the club would drop. We'd be unlikely to get Champion's League qualification money, and there's no point mentioning the Europa League as the prize money isn't significant. Also, don't forget the lower we drop down the league table, the less income we have from TV deals and so on, never mind the Standard Chartered deal is also in part based on us achieving certain goals in the EPL/CL I believe.

Were this a poker game, I would suggest that RBS, in demanding the money this summer, have called Hicks and Gillett's bluff. They have been vocal in the press about the club being in a good financial position, but it's clear those are more lies, and I don't think they're confident we can continue refunding the interest owed, never mind the loan itself.

Leaves the other two possibilities. I can't see any investor putting up the £100 million, without certain agreements that the owners don't look likely to make. For example, rumours were that an Indian billionaire had proposed to refund the debt, in return for a cotrolling stake in the club - nothing materialised.

I do think RBS will end up controlling the club, but where will we go from there? I clearly think we'll find a buyer, but will they have the financial muscle to keep us at the top? Will we see the stadium built in the next ten years? Will we slip back into mid-table mediocrity?

These are the questions without answers. What's clear is that we have been raped by Hicks and Gillett, and they have undone the progress made by Rafa in the last five years. It's terrible to think we were so close to the title last year and now we're in this position.

I just hope any owner will have respect for the manager (whoever he may be!) and the fans. It's the only way forward.

Final word: I am confident the club will survive, and regardless of our standing in the league and Europe, we will always stand behind our team.

What ever the scenario we are Royally fu**ed unless.. 

(1) some one takes complete ownership (which will not happen as any potential investors will be rubbing their hands together, knowing without Champions League football they can get us on the cheap)

(2) some one invests 100 million (which I don't believe will happen due the same scenario as number 1)

(3) Torres could possibly be sold for 100 million but I'd say that is extremely unlikely as Only Man City or Chelsea have that financial clout and as Torres has already confirmed if he was forced to leave Barcelona would be his choice.

(4) That leaves Mascherano to Barca for 50 million, Gerrard to Madrid for 30 million and the 20 million transfer budget to make up the 100 million.

I'd say scenario number (4) is most likely.

So Torres Gerrard and Mascherano out and the " transfer budget "  leaves us at estimated 150M.... which pays off a large chunk of the debt but leaves us up sh*t creek football wise. The options are fantastic. Although I look forward to getting to watch

        Lucas  Aquilani
Babel     Pacheco     Benni
             Ngog

guide us back to the Europa League

i'm depressed

We're properly fu**ed.

RBS will want their money back soon and the club won't be able to pay it. Ignore any sh*te that's came out of Purslows mouth, he's just a relations fella. He wants good press for the club for the need to attract potential investors which would keep the yanks here.

I believe RBS will gain control of the club and try to make it's money back in which ever way they deem fit.

And when a ship starts sinking, people try to escape.

I have to disagree, I don't think RBS will take control of the club, H&G will sell the family silverware first before they lose any chance of lining their pockets, that is why I'd expect to see some big name players sold during the summer window to help them raise the 100 million along with the 20 million we should receive from Standard Chartered.

We'll see mate.

Although selling star players to stump up the £100m would decrease revenue from merchandise, devalue the club and have a negative impact on the pitch - three things the yanks certainly don't want while they have 'control' of the club. RBS practically own the club already.

Would RBS taking control be a bad thing?

Yes

They effectively own the club as it is but if in the summer they call in the debts take the club over they dont want to run a football club they want there 100 million. Where will they get that from? Sell players. Quickest way to reach 100 million by selling players. Torres, Gerrard Masch, Johnson Reina. From the sale of any of those we dont get a penny to spend plus we have a weaker squad to compete with.

Proper fooked

These two pair of leeches will do anything to ensure they make a profit from LFC if that means selling one or two players to pay off the debt that they have heaped up on us they will not lose one iota of sleep over it, they have bought us with borrowed money with very little or no capital outlay of their own, they are effectively using the money the club generates to buy the club.

By paying the 100 million to RBS they have gave themselves at least 1 more years grace to find a potential buyer for the club giving them a greater chance of making a better profit as the debt burden has been slashed by 100 million and thats why I believe they will start selling the silverware before they let their investment profit slip from their grasp.

I'm confused about one thing here.  When Hicks and Gilette took out a loan to buy the club, how was it structured?  Did they not take the loan out in their own names?  It seems like they took the loan out on behalf of the football club.  How is that practice allowed?  It doesn't make any sense.

Would RBS taking control be a bad thing?

I'm not sure whether RBS would take over or we would go in to administration. A 9 point penalty wouldn't be clever.

The only possible positive would be that another buyer could come in and purchase the club at a far more realistic price.

Im thinking we should get together and buy a hitman for these clowns!!!

You publicly say you will not put your own money into our club- and wonder why no-one likes u??!

They need to say something more along the lines of: "if we see a petition with more than 2million signatures on it, we will leave!"

I am glad this thread exists for people to read- we all need to be more clued-up on our situation!

Surely there must be a Red billionaire around!

There is another potential spanner in the works that as yet nobody has brought up.

We have all mentioned at some point or another, either in this thread or others, that potentially players could be sold to pay down the debt.  Figures being discussed range from £30m for Gerrard, £50m for Masch or £100m for Torres, there are also the fringe players valued at between £1m to £15 that most of us see as surplus to requirements.

With all the media discussion about debt within football, not just here in England but all over Europe, the proposals put forward by EUFA about the financial status of Clubs playing in the CL and the fact that everyone is suffering with the credit crunch my question is this.

Will we actually get these valuations if the players are put up for sale?  After all these are valuations placed on the players after they had an exceptionally good 08/09 season where money in football was still silly.  

We all value these players highly but when money is tight and Clubs are wanting quality for a bargain price would Barca really fork out £50m for Masch, £100m for Torres when he's hardly played all season, or Inter pay £30m for Gerrard after his attitude this season.

It may be that the players are worth more to us staying than selling them at below their true value.

Maybe if RBS do call in the debts, does that mean the gov't will bail us out like the banks

Maybe if RBS do call in the debts, does that mean the gov't will bail us out like the banks

Not a hope in hell.

It is evident we are in serious sh*t, We all hope a knight in red shining armour will come and rescue the situation, But who? After Purslows statement recently he has gone very quiet unless i'm missing something, I agree totally with Ayrton, The only thing that bothers me is if we do have to sell top assets it would take us yrs to recover, Would it not be better to have a new owner who has at least got the clubs best interests in mind instead of these pair of greedy Kunts, And if that means losing 9 pts and aoing in to administration then at least the rebuilding progress can start without them bas**rds, We would still be in the prem at least and hopefully Rafa would stay and rebuild with the kids, I know it sounds grim but its better than doing a Leeds.

I don't believe that RBS aren't already looking for people to sell the club on to. Its probably the same people who H&G have scared off in the past.

If RBS repossess a house they only hold it long enough to sell it on OR maximise their ability to make money off it.

LiverpoolFC (not the holding co) is making money and i dont for one second believe their best option is a full on firesale. They will hold it long enough to sell it on. Firesales wont get them the money they want in terms of any bids.
Maybe i just don't want to believe that RBS would F**k us. but sod itim trying to be optimistic.

Hicks and Gillet have to be worried too! If and when they do leave they will do very well to break even. And after the way they have f**ked up our club, who is going to want to do business with them again?

Lets not panic just yet, we are not Portsmouth or Leeds! We are 10 times bigger than those clubs, and far more attractive to potenial suitors.

I have to believe that someone out there is watching and waiting for the right time to make there move and buy the club.

£250 mill for the debt + £400 or so million for the stadium =£650 Which for a club of Liverpool's stature is about right. I live in hope 

Dear Liverpool Supporter,

Please copy and paste the following email message, signing your name at the foot of the page and send to the names listed below at approximately 8pm on Wednesday the 10th of March or again on Thursday afternoon.

Send to:

Stephen.Hester@rbs.co.uk; John.HOURICAN@rbs.com; Roger.Lowry@rbs.co.uk; rebecca.oliphant@rbs.com; Public.Affairs@rbs.co.uk


thicks@hicksholdings.com; tohjr@hicksholdings.com; gngillett@bcmgt.com;
ian.ayre@liverpoolfc.tv; Philip.Nash@liverpoolfc.tv; warren.bradley@liverpool.gov.uk;
howardm@parliament.uk; KILFOYLEP@parliament.uk; Chris.Bascombe@notw.co.uk;
david.maddock@mgn.co.uk; dominick48@hotmail.com; Gary.Jacob@thetimes.co.uk;
helen.power@thetimes.co.uk; henry.winter@telegraph.co.uk; John.Richardson@Express.co.uk;
john.thompson@liverpool.com; lee.clayton@dailymail.co.uk; Oliver.Kay@thetimes.co.uk;
tpanja@bloomberg.net; paul.joyce@express.co.uk; rory.smith@telegraph.co.uk; tony.evans@thetimes.co.uk; birdc@parliament.uk;

--------------------------

Dear Mr Hester,


Having reviewed the company accounts in relation to Liverpool Football Club and Parent Company Kop Football Ltd, of which there is approximately £237M worth of debt; it is clear that the business model operated by the current owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett is unsustainable.

Whilst I appreciate that any refinancing package deal is a confidential matter between the Royal Bank of Scotland and the current owners of Liverpool Football Club, it is also a very personal issue for many Liverpool supporters around the world. As a British Tax Payer and a Lifelong Liverpool fan, I can assure you that I am not happy that my hard earned money is being used to pay for the purchase of Liverpool Football Club for George Gillett and Tom Hicks.

There is an ever increasing sense of anger and resentment towards the the owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett, which is likely to turn towards RBS if the refinancing deal is extended in the coming months.

It is my understanding that if the Refinancing deal is renegotiated beyond July 2010, then a campaign in protest against the Royal Bank of Scotland will take place which will include Billboards with anti-RBS messages encouraging Liverpool Fans to Boycott RBS in a similar manner to the Boycott of the Sun Newspaper (please see below).

Debt Lies Cowboys – Spirit Of Shankly – Liverpool Supporters' Union

Anfield Road » Don’t buy The Sun

If your objective is "the long-term success of Liverpool Football Club" then I urge you to formally refuse any longer term refinancing for Hicks and Gillett, thus leaving the current obligations needing to be immediately repaid.

We as supporters of Liverpool Football Club are effectively paying the loan repayments for Hicks and Gillett, and as taxpayers have a "controlling stake" in RBS. We should therefore have a say in where our money is being invested.

The ball is firmly in your court.



Kind Regards,



Liverpool Supporter

http://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/forum/ff-football-forum/89397-rbs-plan-kicks-off-tomorrow-night-please-join-if-you-havent-already.html

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=245870897172&ref=ss

Support and Join the force.

My biggest fear is that for all the hard words coming from the bank, about paying back the loan, in the end they will just back down at the final hour as last year. If the Yanks don't have the money, will they really have the courage, to take the steps they will need to, in order to get the cash?  It is just not easy to guess what will happen come the end of the season.

2 red Kenny's this could get confusing when drunk ha

Sent the email to Stephen Hester and CC'ed everybody apart from Chris Gob sh*te.

Same here, I'll be fu**ed if I'm sending one to Bascombe though!!

2 red Kenny's this could get confusing when drunk ha

I'd have thought I'd be easier to understand when you're drunk?

By the way, these emails have been done to death already haven't they? Remember last time before the last refinance? It's one thing people sitting behind a computer emailing someone, it's another thing doing something physical.

I'd have thought I'd be easier to understand when you're drunk?

Same wavelength when drunk

By the way, these emails have been done to death already haven't they? Remember last time before the last refinance? It's one thing people sitting behind a computer emailing someone, it's another thing doing something physical.

,
The Hick's clan will probably have filters on by now!

And I'm not expecting much from the press, apart from the usual suspects. Let's face it, the Echo only really got involved last week FFS!

I wouldn't mind, I thought I was being original with my choice of name. The I get on here to discover not only is someone else, also Red Kenny, but he's a mod too!

I remember thinking, last night this is not a good start to my life on here!

I hope it does not prove too confusing! 

With all them emails CC'd in, the papers would be stupid to ignore it. Big fat exclusive written all over it, in all the half decent papers. (Just F**k Bascombe off.)

Excellent approach, is right to the mastermind who thought it up.

RBS would not make the club go into administration.

The club is a guarantee to their loan. So if the clubs revenue is soaring, the banks will know they can make their money back on it.

As others said, if RBS don't have people waiting to come in, then their a bunch of tw*ts.

Don't know why people are even thinking about RBS to be honest, do you really seriously think Tom & George would not sell the family silverware to pay back to the debt at the risk of losing their investment ?

The main concern for me is if we don't find investment and the 100 million needs to be raised to pay RBS, then players will be sold to ensure the repayment is met.

Don't know why people are even thinking about RBS to be honest, do you really seriously think Tom & George would not sell the family silverware to pay back to the debt at the risk of losing their investment ?

The main concern for me is if we don't find investment and the 100 million needs to be raised to pay RBS, then players will be sold to ensure the repayment is met.

What investment?

They've already said they would not put any of their own money in to buy Liverpool.

Don't know why people are even thinking about RBS to be honest, do you really seriously think Tom & George would not sell the family silverware to pay back to the debt at the risk of losing their investment ?

The main concern for me is if we don't find investment and the 100 million needs to be raised to pay RBS, then players will be sold to ensure the repayment is met.

To be honest Red mate I don't think they have any family silver to sell as such.  They are both pretty much broke hence why they have been selling off their other sports interests.  From what I heard yesterday Hicks planned sale of the Texas Rangers which should all have been finalised this month has hit the skids too.

RBS will end up getting involved if they can't come up with money.

If a bank issuse a forclosure, they take your house, sell it, and get what they are owed back. Simple as.

It is exactly what they'll do with us if H&G can't come up with 100M.

What investment?

They've already said they would not put any of their own money in to buy Liverpool.

To be honest Red mate I don't think they have any family silver to sell as such.  

I know they haven't Invested any of their own money JD and they will continue not to, but when I say sell of the Silveware, the 100 million will be raised through players sales, they know themselves that if they significantly lower the debt level there is a greater profit in it for them.

Lets be honest here for a moment lets say you could not make the repayments on a five grand loan, and there was a possibility of losing your home, now if you had a five grand car sat on your drive, you'd sell your car before losing your home as your home is your real investment.

Same applies here, do you really think they will not sell players to raise 100 million and hand the club over to RBS ?

Will they F**k, they are greedy cheating caniving little scrotums that will do anything within their power to hold onto LFC as when the club is effectively payed for with other peoples money , they stand to make a fortune.

Bearing in mind when this 100 million is re-payed, the clubs debts go down to around 127 million, another couple of years in it for them sticking with the same transfer embargo, will gladly see all that debt erased and they have total control of the club for diddly squat.

20 million standard chartered, + 50 million Masch to Barca, + 30 million Gerrard to Madrid, = theres their 100 million in two players.

I know they haven't Invested any of their own money JD and they will continue not to, but when I say sell of the Silveware, the 100 million will be raised through players sales, they know themselves that if they significantly lower the debt level there is a greater profit in it for them.

Lets be honest here for a moment lets say you could not make the repayments on a five grand loan, and there was a possibility of losing your home, now if you had a five grand car sat on your drive, you'd sell your car before losing your home as your home is your real investment.

Same applies here, do you really think they will not sell players to raise 100 million and hand the club over to RBS ?

Will they f**k, they are greedy cheating caniving little scrotums that will do anything within their power to hold onto LFC as when the club is effectively payed for with other peoples money , they stand to make a fortune.

Sorry mate thought you meant their own silver not ours.  Yes it's more than likely they will sell players if outside investment doesn't materialise all we can do is hope that somebody steps in.

Only thing is if they sell off the players then the club also loses value. Thats why Portsmouth let go over eighty staff but kept all the players.
Rock - Hard place

Only thing is if they sell off the players then the club also loses value. Thats why Portsmouth let go over eighty staff but kept all the players.
Rock - Hard place

2 players out, 2 players brought in on freebies, yes the value of the club suffers but that makes no difference to them as they will still ultimately make a profit, whereas by losing their control to RBS they gain nothing !

2 players out, 2 players brought in on freebies, yes the value of the club suffers but that makes no difference to them as they will still ultimately make a profit, whereas by losing their control to RBS they gain nothing !

A Liverpool without Torres Gerrard Mascherano or Reina would be of less value than a Liverpool with them. Although at that point they would have recouped large amounts of money on player sales so they get their money one way or the other in the end.

2 players out, 2 players brought in on freebies, yes the value of the club suffers but that makes no difference to them as they will still ultimately make a profit, whereas by losing their control to RBS they gain nothing !

Agreed mate as the real value of the club to them is the stadium which is why they are desperate for the outside investment.  They know that if the new stadium is started they are more likely to get the investment or a buyer to take over completely.

A Liverpool without Torres Gerrard Mascherano or Reina would be of less value than a Liverpool with them. Although at that point they would have recouped large amounts of money on player sales so they get their money one way or the other in the end.

You can't say though mate really, now imagine the sale of Gerrard and Masch gave Aquilani and Pachecho and what ever freebies were brought in the platform to step into the team and we won the league, would our stock not rise, even without afore mentioned players ?

There are so many scenarios to look at it, but common sense tells you, Liverpool is more valuable to them minus players than it is in RBS hands.

Say for instance they are wanting 450 million for the club as it stands with 237 million debt what ever, they would make around 223 million profit. They lose the club to RBS all the debt gets paid before they do, By selling one or two players the debt goes down around 137 million they ask 350 million for the club, they are still making around the same profit.

That was my point. They get less money for the club but still end up making the same profit.
Only way out is if the banks force them to sell up... Otherwise the gready duo make a mint of the back of the club one way or another.
If they sold every quality player we had they could then sell up in the summer as someone would surely come in with 200M but where does
that leave the club. Midtable. Then we only have the hope that Rafas redesigned youth system can bail us out

That was my point. They get less money for the club but still end up making the same profit.
Only way out is if the banks force them to sell up... Otherwise the gready duo make a mint of the back of the club one way or another.
If they sold every quality player we had they could then sell up in the summer as someone would surely come in with 200M but where does
that leave the club. Midtable. Then we only have the hope that Rafas redesigned youth system can bail us out

I posted this the other day in the Is Rafa the right man thread.  This scenario is not as far fetched as it seems under the circumstances.  Twit & T**t have no intentions of investing, never have had, all they want is to make money out of us and they will do whatever it takes to achieve this regardless of our feelings or the needs of the Club.

Roll on next season when we have a fabulous new Manager that nobody has heard of, Carra has left for pastures new cos Rafa didn't have the money to give him the contract he wanted, Gerrard playing in Real or Barca colours with Torres, Masch and Pepe following suit so the banks can be paid and everbody gets their wish to see the reserve team playing every week. 

At least we can all relax in the warm glow that we should at least be good enough to win the Championship once we get relegated.

I'm not as clued up as some of the posters on this forum but I think we all know the sh*t we are in. Personally I believe the only people to blame for this whole mess are Rick Parry and David Moores. As custodians of the club it was their responsibility to ensure we (LFC) was placed in the best possible hands. What was wrong DIC's money? I also remember readin comments made by Steve Morgans wife that Parry and Moores would rather do business with the devil then with her husband Steve Morgan.

Morgan at least was an LFC supporter. At least he would've had the best interest of the club at heart.

How is it that clubs like Man City and Chelsea were able to attract owners with deep pockets, even though they hadn't won anything for donkeys years and don't have the history of LFC?

I feel depressed............... ..

well i tell you all what
if torres or gerrard is sold then that's going to be the end of their tenure
mark it
it really hurts me to see us in this condition
when i became a passionate fan i didnt know anything about this
infact when the season got over and then i started surfing about lfc and then i realised what a great mess we are in and i questioned why has to why have i fallen in love with lfc
but there isnt any thing i can do about it for i am in love with lfc
i wish i was another club supporter which would have given me happiness
lfc HURTS me

it effects the rest of my life
all i pray to god 24x7n is to get these blood sucking parasites out of my beloved lfc
 

lfc even after death

There could be light at the end of the tunnel meaning we would not have to settle for mid table mediocrity, I guess it would all depend on how it was played out, but heres a scenario for you.

20 million standard Chartered.

50 million Masch to Barca.

30 million Gerrard to Madrid.

RBS paid.

100 million Torres Man City/Barca/Chelsea

8 million or so Voronin and Dossena its allegedly rolling over.

10 million kuyt, 10 million Babel.

giving you 128 million losing 5 players.

40 million Aguero.

15 million Mata.

25 million Silva.

15 million Javi Martinez.

15 million Turan.

18 million Jermaine Defoe.

Gaining 6 players and replacing an English man with an English man for the home grown ruling.

would something like that be seen as acceptable ?

I'm not as clued up as some of the posters on this forum but I think we all know the sh*t we are in. Personally I believe the only people to blame for this whole mess are Rick Parry and David Moores. As custodians of the club it was their responsibility to ensure we (LFC) was placed in the best possible hands. What was wrong DIC's money? I also remember readin comments made by Steve Morgans wife that Parry and Moores would rather do business with the devil then with her husband Steve Morgan.

Morgan at least was an LFC supporter. At least he would've had the best interest of the club at heart.

How is it that clubs like Man City and Chelsea were able to attract owners with deep pockets, even though they hadn't won anything for donkeys years and don't have the history of LFC?

I feel depressed............... ..

We were all conned mate before and since the takeover, I'd even say some are still being taken in by their lies.  We were an easy target for easy money in their eyes.

As for owners who have taken over other less successful clubs maybe we weren't a big enough challenge for them because of our success and history.  Businessmen are a breed on their own.

There could be light at the end of the tunnel meaning we would not have to settle for mid table mediocrity, I guess it would all depend on how it was played out, but heres a scenario for you.

20 million standard Chartered.

50 million Masch to Barca.

30 million Gerrard to Madrid.

RBS paid.

100 million Torres Man City/Barca/Chelsea

8 million or so Voronin and Dossena its allegedly rolling over.

10 million kuyt, 10 million Babel.

giving you 128 million losing 5 players.

40 million Aguero.

15 million Mata.

25 million Silva.

15 million Javi Martinez.

15 million Turan.

18 million Jermaine Defoe.

would something like that be seen as acceptable ?

Nice scenario that mate but you know as well as I do that any money raised will not go on bringing in quality players.  After the debt has been paid this summer any other revenue will go on starting the stadium as that, more than footballing success, will bring in more revenue for the bloodsuckers.

There could be light at the end of the tunnel meaning we would not have to settle for mid table mediocrity, I guess it would all depend on how it was played out, but heres a scenario for you.

20 million standard Chartered.

50 million Masch to Barca.

30 million Gerrard to Madrid.

RBS paid.

100 million Torres Man City/Barca/Chelsea

8 million or so Voronin and Dossena its allegedly rolling over.

10 million kuyt, 10 million Babel.

giving you 128 million losing 5 players.

40 million Aguero.

15 million Mata.

25 million Silva.

15 million Javi Martinez.

15 million Turan.

18 million Jermaine Defoe.

Gaining 6 players and replacing an English man with an English man for the home grown ruling.

would something like that be seen as acceptable ?

You mentioned Aquero Mata and Silva then suddenly it all felt a bit better.. Nice! +

You mentioned Aquero Mata and Silva then suddenly it all felt a bit better.. Nice! +

I'm neither this glass is half full or this glass is half empty kinda guy mate, all I know is, I need a refill.

You mentioned Aquero Mata and Silva then suddenly it all felt a bit better.. Nice! +

god no, jesus h christ thats insane

Nice scenario that mate but you know as well as I do that any money raised will not go on bringing in quality players.  After the debt has been paid this summer any other revenue will go on starting the stadium as that, more than footballing success, will bring in more revenue for the bloodsuckers.

indeed, 128m raised from player sales, i can barely see less than half being re-invested back in the squad with majority going on new stadium start up and lining the c***s pockets

The thing is, that if we would sell players like Nando, Gerrard and Masch and get at least 100 million, we can't be sure that the players that we would like to buy to replace them will come here (like Chelsea is interested in Aguero, and if they have a good season this year, he would probably choose them). That way we would have a lot of money, but there wouldn't be any use for it.

No Redblood and what right minded top player is going to sign for a club that is selling all there top players.

 So Aguero would choose us if we sold Gerrard Torres and his captain at national level Masch ahead of teams like City Utd Chelsea.  To be honest that could be said of all the players you've listed. I think there is more chance of Alex Ferguson taking over in the Summer if Benitez goes.

Im pretty sure Torres would refuse to leave. Would there be any possible legal way that RBS/H+G could force him to?

I can't help but wonder if we as fans could do more to raise the profile of LFC's plight. If you look at the papers they keep going on about the green and gold of Manure, but not a lot is said about LFC's financial woes. What visible aid can we utilise to show our contempt of the cu*ts who control our club?

Maybe we need to be more vocal in our anger at the hicks and gillet. I know we've demonstrated at matches etc but at times Anfield has felt like a morgue, maybe we need to do as supporters to make the sure the owners get the picture and they relise that selling the silver of our club isn't going to be as easy as think it is.

Just a thought................. .

Im pretty sure Torres would refuse to leave. Would there be any possible legal way that RBS/H+G could force him to?

As a player you want to win things, you want to play in all the big competions and be challenging on all fronts. If you now that all you get from the owners is bull sh*t and that the club has no money for transfers, then its not gonna be great motivation to stay. Add to that the owners want to get rid of you, much as Torres loves the club and its fans, he may want to leave given the situation we find ourselves in.

With them being Yanks, how about waving Russian Flags? Right colour and it would show revolution in is in the air.

Im pretty sure Torres would refuse to leave. Would there be any possible legal way that RBS/H+G could force him to?

No mate not unless he broke the terms/conditions specified in his contract.What the gobsh*tes could do,is threaten to leave him sat in the stand for the remainder of his current contract.That of course would have implications for his International career and may well convince him to leave

Im pretty sure Torres would refuse to leave. Would there be any possible legal way that RBS/H+G could force him to?

If the worst scenario came to pass the idea of Torres refusing to leave is laughable, he is playing now without adequate back up if the sh*t hit the fan he would be surrounded by third rate players with none existant back up.

  If the worst scenario came to pass the idea of Torres refusing to leave is laughable, he is playing now without adequate back up if the sh*t hit the fan he would be surrounded by third rate players with none existant back up.     

Could argue he already is

Could argue he already is

You're not wrong!

I know one day these two carpet baggers will be gone, whatever is left after they have stole all they can, will be the fans and those that truly care can start the fight back that day. This won't go on for much longer, Hick is ageing fast along with Gillett and I'm sure they won't want us around their necks when they pass on.

No Redblood and what right minded top player is going to sign for a club that is selling all there top players.

It was just a possible scenario Corbally, we all know it will never happen that way, but selling the likes of Masch & Gerrard as much as I hate to say it, I'd prefer OTHER than the club go into administration as no Player not Gerrard not even Torres are bigger than the club as the club will continue long after they retire as it did following Dalglish, Barnes, Rush, Fowler etc etc.

If RBS got their hands on the club and they had no buyer lined up to take over the reigns, it would be a fire sale at Anfield and we'd be asset stripped, make no mistake they would want their money.

I'm sure the end scenario, if  RBS took over the club, would be, one of the big investors rumoured to be interested in buying the club outright, would be able to purchase the club for the £370 ODD Mill from the bank, instead of the £ 500 Mill the two yanks want. There will be big investors in U.A.Emirates and India watching how things develop very closely. They won't have any pity for the yanks if the opportunity comes along for them to save £130 Mill you can be sure of that.