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      FC Barcelona

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      racerx34
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #510: Apr 27, 2012 03:05:43 pm
      It's obvious he's taking a year off, but all the knobhead press will continue to say he's the man for the England job. As will all the w**ker pundits - the same ones who've been calling for an English manager for ages.


      Good luck for the future Pep. And well done on your incredible achievements at Barca.

      How will they replace him?

      The old Liverpool way, from within.
      xSkyline
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #511: Apr 27, 2012 03:07:13 pm
      Vilanova has already been given the job. They were always going to promote from within, it's their philosophy.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #512: Apr 27, 2012 03:11:22 pm
      He has always said he thinks a manager shouldn't stay for too long at Barça and always hinted at a possible exit, so this news come as a bit of a surprise but not that much. It's a bit difficult to predict what he's gonna do now, because I don't think he has the same mentality of most managers, he thinks things differently and perhaps that's why he's been so good at what he does.
      racerx34
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #513: Apr 27, 2012 03:21:13 pm
      nnilswerdna
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #514: Apr 27, 2012 04:09:19 pm
      Sad news that, Barca as a club are tremendous, the press that follow Barca however are vultures.
      Joe88
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #515: Apr 27, 2012 04:13:25 pm
      Didn't Tito have throat cancer? Always been lead to believe he was as much in need of a break as Pep so surprised at this appointment
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #516: Apr 27, 2012 06:47:54 pm
      I thought Tito would leave with Barca in the idea that they had become a partnership but nor am I surprised they appointed him. Appointing from within clearly worked with Barca with Pep and I think it will work with Tito when he makes the step up. He knows the philosophy, seen how you can get the best out of players like Messi etc and will generally continue the job Guardiola began. A very wise decision indeed!

      I don't know what Pep will do next. He should do as he desires and take a break. I'd always hang out for the hope that if Liverpool ever came calling he'd be willing to step up to the task. What could be more exciting than him coming in and taking on the delicious task of transforming the club from to to bottom? I don't think there's a better manager in football at the moment. He's like Mourinho, only with the style in his football and without the sheer arrogance.
      Reslivo
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #517: Apr 27, 2012 06:56:00 pm
      I don't think there's a better manager in football at the moment. He's like Mourinho, only with the style in his football and without the sheer arrogance.

      And his teams can't defend. See Tuesday.
      Bier
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #518: Apr 27, 2012 07:01:46 pm
      And his teams can't defend. See Tuesday.
      So a team that wins that many things can't defend? I'd think not. They just defend differently than you apparently think they should. Mostly by trying to keep possession and pressuring the opposition as a team when they're not in possession..
      Reslivo
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #519: Apr 27, 2012 07:20:47 pm
      So a team that wins that many things can't defend? I'd think not.

      Yep, it's called possession. The opponent can't score if they don't have the ball, can they? And for a team that usually has about 70% possession and 1-4 shots on target against them per game, they concede an awful lot of goals, don't you think?

      They just defend differently than you apparently think they should. Mostly by trying to keep possession and pressuring the opposition as a team when they're not in possession.

      I'm talking about defending OFF the ball. When Barca are being attacked, or their defence is being ran at, they're a shambles.
      Bier
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #520: Apr 27, 2012 07:36:27 pm
      Yep, it's called possession. The opponent can't score if they don't have the ball, can they? And for a team that usually has about 70% possession and 1-4 shots on target against them per game, they concede an awful lot of goals, don't you think?
      That is their defense though. As they say, offense is the best defense. I don't see that seperate from it.

      I'm talking about defending OFF the ball. When Barca are being attacked, or their defence is being ran at, they're a shambles.
      I think as a team they've always been very good at regaining possession, by putting pressure as a team early on, forcing the opposition to make mistakes.

      But you can't play like Barcelona and have a different, or much better defense. Because being able to play that way has alot to do with the type of players they play. It's also why they don't see Masch as a viable option for their midfield. They could play more defensive players but it'll go at the cost of their possession play.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #521: Apr 27, 2012 08:11:48 pm
      And his teams can't defend. See Tuesday.

      Rubbish. When a team is pressing that high all the time and with that urgency you're always likely to find a gap in the defence. Everyone's mentality is so attack minded that the idea of getting into trouble defensively is out of the question. It's silly to allow complacency in like that yes but it can happen to the best of teams as we just saw.

      For sure I think it's time for Puyol to move over and some further tweaks required in that department but YOU DO NOT win two European Cups, 3 league titles and a Copa Del Rey if you can't defend at a good standard. It's simple!
      « Last Edit: Apr 27, 2012 08:23:14 pm by Frankly, Mr Shankly »
      Reslivo
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #522: Apr 27, 2012 08:23:58 pm
      Rubbish. When a team is pressing that high all the time and with that urgency you're always likely to find a gap in the defence. Everyone's mentality is so attack minded that the idea of getting into trouble defensively is out of the question. It's silly to allow complacency in like that yes but it can happen to the best of teams as we just saw.

      For sure I think it's time for Puyol to move over and some further tweaks required in that department but YOU DO NOT win two European Cups, 3 league titles and a Copa Del Rey if you can't defend at a good standard. It's simple!
      That is their defense though. As they say, offense is the best defense. I don't see that seperate from it.
      I think as a team they've always been very good at regaining possession, by putting pressure as a team early on, forcing the opposition to make mistakes.

      But you can't play like Barcelona and have a different, or much better defense. Because being able to play that way has alot to do with the type of players they play. It's also why they don't see Masch as a viable option for their midfield. They could play more defensive players but it'll go at the cost of their possession play.

      Their back four as a unit are terrible defensively. They just are.

      They win their silverware by possession and possession alone.
      Bier
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #523: Apr 27, 2012 08:27:28 pm
      Their back four as a unit are terrible defensively. They just are.

      They win their silverware by possession and possession alone.

      This season maybe. They weren't that bad. But Abidal getting older, and getting sick. And Puyol getting older has certainly lowered the overall quality, and Alves isn't really a defender in how he plays for them. I think the only real mistake they made there is buying Adriano, just isn't good enough.

      But normally teams have more enforcers in their team, on the midfield too I'd say that's more the reason than anything else. But that again comes back to their style of play.
      racerx34
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #524: Apr 27, 2012 08:29:44 pm
      Should have stuck to 4-3-3.
      That 3-3-3-1 was mental when they lost the ball.
      It was totally reliant on possession.
      Bier
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #525: Apr 27, 2012 08:34:12 pm
      Should have stuck to 4-3-3.
      That 3-3-3-1 was mental when they lost the ball.
      It was totally reliant on possession.

      I think it was a mistake this season to get Fabregas. Although the main reason for that is as a result they changed formation to fit him, Xavi and Iniesta into one team.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #526: Apr 27, 2012 08:38:36 pm
      Alves isn't really a defender in how he plays for them. I think the only real mistake they made there is buying Adriano, just isn't good enough.

      100% agree. "Daniel Alves is a right back" is the biggest lie in world football. He isn't. His reputation in Brazil is tarnished because managers keep trying to play him there for the national team. He's not a fullback, really. As a RB, I'd have Maicon ahead of him every single day.

      And Adriano is just average, not a player of Barcelona standards.
      The Kopite91
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #527: Apr 27, 2012 09:02:06 pm
      Tremendous respect for Pep and wish him all the best. I think he has made a very shrewd decision in leaving this season. Of course I agree that he needs the break he has poured his heart and soul into that team and 4 years is very long. But also look at the team he is leaving. It isn't the same Barca of two or three years ago that struck fear in the heart of every team they came across. They are getting old, some big name signings haven't performed as well as expected, Madrid are getting stronger, their defensive weaknesses are more apparent than ever. Leaving now ensures he leaves with the memories of himself leading "the greatest club team", his reputation, the fans love and affection and a very impressive trophy haul. If he were to leave it for another year or two and standards dropped, he would be associated with the fall of that team as well as the rise.
      Adryan
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #528: Apr 27, 2012 11:07:12 pm
      He certainly departs on a high, though.

      I wish him all the best in whatever he does. Built the greatest football team I have ever seen.

      So what they lost two trophies in a week .. they've won so much in 4 years and IMO, revolutionized the sport.
      racerx34
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #529: Apr 28, 2012 11:18:59 am
      Since becomimg manager in the summer of 2008 Guardiola has given 24 academy players their debut.
      Youth Factory.
      « Last Edit: Apr 28, 2012 11:48:57 am by racerx34 »
      Joe88
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #530: Apr 28, 2012 11:34:07 am
      Since becomimg manager in the summer of 2008 Guardiola has given 24 players their debut.
      Youth Factory.

      Including the likes of Villa,Alexis etc?
      vulcan_red
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #531: Apr 28, 2012 11:46:09 am
      Including the likes of Villa,Alexis etc?

      No Granero now that's a youth factory
      racerx34
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #532: Apr 28, 2012 11:48:08 am
      Oops. Academy players.
      Joe88
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #533: Apr 28, 2012 11:49:21 am
      No Granero now that's a youth factory


      You are a wind up
      vulcan_red
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #534: Apr 28, 2012 11:55:21 am

      No man you are. Guardiola has brought through this year cuenca, alacantra, tello and maybe more. Into a team playing that kind of football. He backed them in big matches. He deserves some credit.
      Adryan
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #535: Apr 28, 2012 11:58:46 am
      Since becomimg manager in the summer of 2008 Guardiola has given 24 players their debut.
      Youth Factory.

      So many?

      Fontas, Pedro, Cuenca, Muniesa, Tello, Thiago, Roberto, Montoya, Dos Santos, Suarez, Fabregas, Pique and Busquets.

      Then there's the likes of Keita, Alves, Sanchez, Villa, Mascherano, Maxwell, Adriano, Cacares, Hleb, Chygrynskiy, Ibrahimovic.

      24 in 4 years is a lot, considering 13 came from the academy. 11 bought.

      I bought this Barcelona book 'The Making of the Greatest Team in the World'. So far so good and there's this picture of Pique, Fabregas and Messi when they were like kids playing for the youth team. Now they are all united again.

      Joe88
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #536: Apr 28, 2012 12:40:38 pm
      No man you are. Guardiola has brought through this year cuenca, alacantra, tello and maybe more. Into a team playing that kind of football. He backed them in big matches. He deserves some credit.

      I was just double checking Adryans facts - f**k all to do with you
      Joe88
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #537: Apr 28, 2012 12:42:11 pm
      James Lawton: Guardiola has shirked football's greatest test – rebuilding a team




      Some of the eulogies to Guardiola yesterday flew so far over the top it was ridiculous

      Let's agree that Pep Guardiola, having inherited the greatest concentration of beautifully groomed talent in modern football – the core of which in two years won the European Championship and World Cup under the separate leadership of such crusty old characters as Luis Aragones and Vicente del Bosque – did some wonderful, luminous work in his four-year stint at the Nou Camp.

      This, surely, is giving the apparently jaded young Caesar of coaching not a centavo more than his due. However, it is still necessary, rather than niggardly, to say that some of the eulogies that came yesterday when he announced his need for a year-long sabbatical flew so far over the top they were in danger of collecting snow up in the sierra.

      Firmly in this category, you have to believe, is the widely accepted belief that Roman Abramovich is in a fever to sign the coach who has, like it or not, walked away from the most basic challenge that can ever face a heavyweight member of his trade.

      It is the obligation to re-make a great team, not as the kind of much-trumpeted "project" so haplessly announced by the ill-fated Andres Villas-Boas at Chelsea, but as a seamless response to evidence that a once superb team is in need of some re-shaping.

      Maybe the requirement is major surgery; perhaps it is just a nip and a tuck. This is not of ultimate importance, not compared to the vital need for new sense where a deeply frustrated team is heading.

      Certainly in the case of a team as stocked with natural-born brilliance as Barça you have to believe that some measured tinkering would be an adequate response.

      Messi, Xavi and Iniesta didn't shed their reputation as one of the most sublimely effective triumvirates in the history of football against Real Madrid and Chelsea. They suggested a pressing need for a shift in direction, a little new impetus and inspiration, which of course was the job of their extravagantly lauded coach.

      Instead, Guardiola seemed rather more concerned about the accumulation of pressure heaping on his shoulders. Yesterday he had some of the manner of a martyr, not least when saying things like: "Four years is enough – to be in the face of the media every three days for four years is demanding" and "I'm going with the understanding that I have done my duty." With a yearly roll-over contract, the latter point can hardly be disputed.

      Yet unease over the heroic profile is not so easy to dismiss.

      A number of great managers – starting with Jose Mourinho – might say the ordeal of the bi-weekly press call is somewhat reduced when you can spend at least some parts of the other five days reading that your only remaining challenge is to walk on water.

      Abramovich, we know, became increasingly restive when some sections of the English media took a similar stance on Mourinho. Could it now be that he believes pretty much everything he reads about Guardiola? If it is so, he might well be advised to let the Catalan paragon smell the flowers for a while and grant a little more time to Roberto di Matteo, who didn't walk into the most flourishing culture in the world game but a club breaking up before our eyes.

      Maybe Guardiola is being merely smart. Perhaps he is going to the bank where he has such huge reserves to cash in a little breathing space. His kudos is so massive that he may well be able to afford to hand the reins to his Man Friday Tito Vilanova for a year, then return, perhaps after the signing of someone like Robin van Persie and an adjustment to the role of Messi, and then face the future again with a fresh set of garlands.

      In the meantime, Abramovich might ponder the fact that he would be giving Guardiola precisely the chore that was dumped into the lap of Di Matteo. This was to create something positive from what had come to resemble a football version of civil war.

      We have to wait for the Champions League and FA Cup finals against the impressive Bayern Munich and, surely on this occasion, a highly motivated Liverpool, to know quite the extent of the temporary manager's achievement but already it is not much short of breathtaking.

      If we get right down to it, he has done something that was expected of Guardiola before the pivotal games with Real Madrid and Chelsea. He gave his players a sense of who they were and what they might just achieve. If neither of his game-plans lifted the soul, they certainly brought the possibilities down to earth.

      Guardiola, who confirmed that yesterday's announcement was of a decision that had been fixed in his mind for at least six months, apparently had nothing new to offer before the trials at the Bernabeu and Nou Camp. He invited Messi and Xavi and Iniesta to do for him all those things that were bequeathed when he took office; all those components of a beautiful, relentless system invigorated by endless, at times impossible, skill.

      In fact Guardiola was suggesting strongly that he might walk away as long ago as last spring. In some ways it dominated the aftermath of Messi's brilliant dissection of Manchester United at Wembley. When Sir Alex Ferguson was told of the possibility he had just a few words of caution for his young conqueror, saying that in the football life it was a rare privilege indeed to work with the likes of Messi and the players who augmented his genius so perfectly. Indeed, it was something that might never come again.

      That, anyway, was the reflection of a football man not without certain achievement, one who was already facing again the need to build a fourth team carrying his signature. It is, of course, the tyranny that football sooner or later imposes on everyone, this requirement to make a new side. Maybe Guardiola knows it well enough – and was yesterday merely delaying the end of a charmed existence.
      http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-guardiola-has-shirked-footballs-greatest-test--rebuilding-a-team-7685233.html
       [\news]
      vulcan_red
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #538: Apr 28, 2012 01:00:16 pm
      James Lawton: Guardiola has shirked football's greatest test – rebuilding a team




      Some of the eulogies to Guardiola yesterday flew so far over the top it was ridiculous

      Let's agree that Pep Guardiola, having inherited the greatest concentration of beautifully groomed talent in modern football – the core of which in two years won the European Championship and World Cup under the separate leadership of such crusty old characters as Luis Aragones and Vicente del Bosque – did some wonderful, luminous work in his four-year stint at the Nou Camp.

      This, surely, is giving the apparently jaded young Caesar of coaching not a centavo more than his due. However, it is still necessary, rather than niggardly, to say that some of the eulogies that came yesterday when he announced his need for a year-long sabbatical flew so far over the top they were in danger of collecting snow up in the sierra.

      Firmly in this category, you have to believe, is the widely accepted belief that Roman Abramovich is in a fever to sign the coach who has, like it or not, walked away from the most basic challenge that can ever face a heavyweight member of his trade.

      It is the obligation to re-make a great team, not as the kind of much-trumpeted "project" so haplessly announced by the ill-fated Andres Villas-Boas at Chelsea, but as a seamless response to evidence that a once superb team is in need of some re-shaping.

      Maybe the requirement is major surgery; perhaps it is just a nip and a tuck. This is not of ultimate importance, not compared to the vital need for new sense where a deeply frustrated team is heading.

      Certainly in the case of a team as stocked with natural-born brilliance as Barça you have to believe that some measured tinkering would be an adequate response.

      Messi, Xavi and Iniesta didn't shed their reputation as one of the most sublimely effective triumvirates in the history of football against Real Madrid and Chelsea. They suggested a pressing need for a shift in direction, a little new impetus and inspiration, which of course was the job of their extravagantly lauded coach.

      Instead, Guardiola seemed rather more concerned about the accumulation of pressure heaping on his shoulders. Yesterday he had some of the manner of a martyr, not least when saying things like: "Four years is enough – to be in the face of the media every three days for four years is demanding" and "I'm going with the understanding that I have done my duty." With a yearly roll-over contract, the latter point can hardly be disputed.

      Yet unease over the heroic profile is not so easy to dismiss.

      A number of great managers – starting with Jose Mourinho – might say the ordeal of the bi-weekly press call is somewhat reduced when you can spend at least some parts of the other five days reading that your only remaining challenge is to walk on water.

      Abramovich, we know, became increasingly restive when some sections of the English media took a similar stance on Mourinho. Could it now be that he believes pretty much everything he reads about Guardiola? If it is so, he might well be advised to let the Catalan paragon smell the flowers for a while and grant a little more time to Roberto di Matteo, who didn't walk into the most flourishing culture in the world game but a club breaking up before our eyes.

      Maybe Guardiola is being merely smart. Perhaps he is going to the bank where he has such huge reserves to cash in a little breathing space. His kudos is so massive that he may well be able to afford to hand the reins to his Man Friday Tito Vilanova for a year, then return, perhaps after the signing of someone like Robin van Persie and an adjustment to the role of Messi, and then face the future again with a fresh set of garlands.

      In the meantime, Abramovich might ponder the fact that he would be giving Guardiola precisely the chore that was dumped into the lap of Di Matteo. This was to create something positive from what had come to resemble a football version of civil war.

      We have to wait for the Champions League and FA Cup finals against the impressive Bayern Munich and, surely on this occasion, a highly motivated Liverpool, to know quite the extent of the temporary manager's achievement but already it is not much short of breathtaking.

      If we get right down to it, he has done something that was expected of Guardiola before the pivotal games with Real Madrid and Chelsea. He gave his players a sense of who they were and what they might just achieve. If neither of his game-plans lifted the soul, they certainly brought the possibilities down to earth.

      Guardiola, who confirmed that yesterday's announcement was of a decision that had been fixed in his mind for at least six months, apparently had nothing new to offer before the trials at the Bernabeu and Nou Camp. He invited Messi and Xavi and Iniesta to do for him all those things that were bequeathed when he took office; all those components of a beautiful, relentless system invigorated by endless, at times impossible, skill.

      In fact Guardiola was suggesting strongly that he might walk away as long ago as last spring. In some ways it dominated the aftermath of Messi's brilliant dissection of Manchester United at Wembley. When Sir Alex Ferguson was told of the possibility he had just a few words of caution for his young conqueror, saying that in the football life it was a rare privilege indeed to work with the likes of Messi and the players who augmented his genius so perfectly. Indeed, it was something that might never come again.

      That, anyway, was the reflection of a football man not without certain achievement, one who was already facing again the need to build a fourth team carrying his signature. It is, of course, the tyranny that football sooner or later imposes on everyone, this requirement to make a new side. Maybe Guardiola knows it well enough – and was yesterday merely delaying the end of a charmed existence.
      http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-guardiola-has-shirked-footballs-greatest-test--rebuilding-a-team-7685233.html
       [\news]
      See that's the problem Joe the media exist to sell papers and polarise the public. ALthough I do think .."charmed existence" is ironic on your part
      Joe88
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      Re: FC Barcelona
      Reply #539: Apr 28, 2012 01:22:42 pm
      See that's the problem Joe the media exist to sell papers and polarise the public. ALthough I do think .."charmed existence" is ironic on your part


      It's not my view

      You are the polariser - I have no bias towards either Mourinho or Pep - I admire both

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