Are Liverpool A Good Investment?

So last years wages when we finished second are being used to beat Rafa this year. Even though he has cleared out players and now has a bench comprising mostly youth players. Give me patience. I would put a sizeable wager on that we are no longer in the top four regarding wages and that City and Spurs have both passed us by in this regard.

Sort of.

The accounts are a year out of date, but I think we can make a reasonable estimate for last season. Chelsea will still be top of the pile and may well be higher than 2009's £153m following new deals for the likes of John Terry, Frank Lampard, Petr Cech and Michael Essien. My guess is that United will be slightly higher, say £130m, as inflation will be offset by Ronaldo's departure. Following the rise in wages reported in Arsenal's interim accounts, their wage bill will have increased to around £120m. As I said above, Manchester City's £83m did not include their spending spree last summer, when they attracted many big names (Adebayor, Tevez, Barry, Lescott, etc) to the club with generous packages. Conservatively assuming £100,000 a week, City’s payroll has probably risen by over £40m to around £125m this season. If we assume that Liverpool's wage bill was unchanged at £103m, that would put them in 5th position.

I don't see any chance of Spurs increasing their wage bill in a year by over £45m (over 75% of their current salaries of £59m) to overtake Liverpool. Not even Redknapp could manage that.

I would venture to say our wagebill would actually be lower rather than staying the same. Therefor making the jump for Spurs more likely

what premier league club makes a profit? so cant call it an investment. the way things are run its a recipe for disaster. look at the way they run soccer clubs in germany,all clubs there heavily regulated. bring in a salary club these guys arent worth that much they get paid wether they play good or bad. most of the time its bad.

what premier league club makes a profit? so cant call it an investment. the way things are run its a recipe for disaster. look at the way they run soccer clubs in germany,all clubs there heavily regulated. bring in a salary club these guys arent worth that much they get paid wether they play good or bad. most of the time its bad.

The game should be regulated a tad bit more but hey we don't make the rules. Football worldwide has been affected by the hyperinflation within the sport. So you can't really just pick the bones out of the Premier League. Look in Spain too, they spend tonnes and tonnes on players in Madrid, and Barca can spend heavily on occasion too. The TV money is so unevenly distributed it's not even funny. Hence why the title is always between Madrid and Barca as they earn the most from TV revenue etc.

I don't see how regulation would really matter to be honest, if we introduced salary caps how many players would still be attracted to play over here? These guys on 100k a week are subject to the higher bracket of tax if I'm not mistaken and have to pay 50% in tax? So your average Joe (Cole) who's looking for 100k a week will receive 50k a week in reality. Might be less when Cameron hikes up the taxes, but him being a conservative and all, he'll probably reduce the higher bracket and increase the lower bracket. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer But I don't see any of this capping business going on in Spain and to be honest they probably have the best league in Europe along with us.


I wouldn't count Germany in my top 5 leagues anyway, and the football coming from there hasn't been the best really now has it? In my opinion Bayern got through on luck, the standard of football over there is average to say the least.

Back to the point. 400M for Liverpool is a steal. Our fan base is massive worldwide, we just got a sponsorship deal worth 100m over 5 years and Adidas want to renew their contract with us also. The revenue potential of our club is enormous, if the club was managed right. Shirt sales figures must be massive, build the new stadium and you'll have your money back within a few years.

It's all basic finance/economics.


Let's just hope there is a sh*t tonne of buyers out there talking to Barclays and Broughton about buying us.

Oh and to answer your first question... they'd make a profit if they were managed correctly. And I'm pretty sure Arsenal make a profit, the mancs don't coz they both fuel the hyperinflation (both of em) and Chelsea might... not sure, but if they didn't it's because of their wage bill.

It's sad that Liverpool fc are now looked at as an "investment". What we need is a super rich Reds fan to buy the club, just for the love of the club!!!!

I can only dream that such a thing could happen!

I don't see any chance of Spurs increasing their wage bill in a year by over £45m (over 75% of their current salaries of £59m) to overtake Liverpool. Not even Redknapp could manage that.

He might but it's unlikely he'd tell Revenue and Customs  

I don't see any chance of Spurs increasing their wage bill in a year by over £45m (over 75% of their current salaries of £59m) to overtake Liverpool. Not even Redknapp could manage that.

I doubt it too mate.  From Harry taking over Oct 2008 to Jan 2010 he's offloaded 56 players on loan.  That's going to go a long way in keeping wage cost's down.

Hi,
I wrote the article above and would be happy to answer any questions you may have.
My intention was to produce a detailed analysis of Liverpool's financial position. One problem that the newspapers have when covering football finances is that they do not have the space to do justice to the full picture, so they tend to use headline figures, which can be misleading or even incorrect.

Great article Swiss Army Knife.
Good research and detail.

I was pleased to see you objectively didnt avoid the Rafa issue in it.

Even though manager Rafa Benitez has frequently complained about not being given sufficient resources to compete, his much-loved facts do not appear to support this view. Since his arrival in the summer of 2004, the club has backed him to the tune of spending £249 million on bringing players to the club.
and
To be fair, Benitez has recovered £141 million from player sales, but that still leaves a net spend of £109 million, second only to the big spenders at Manchester City (£228 million) and Chelsea (£145 million). However, it is considerably more than Manchester United (£32 million) and Arsenal, who actually have a transfer surplus of £26 million over the same period. Given that all this transfer activity has only resulted in a mediocre seventh place in the Premier League, I would argue that this strategic objective has not been achieved.

This is all forgotten while Senor Benitez  is outshone by the Hicks and Gillett show.
As I keep saying.
Rafa STILL hasnt denied he is leaving and is still grandstanding on the fence whilst we could do with some serious public commitment.
Rafa has had our sympathy vote with those two clowns but its time for him to be counted


Rafa is but only one of the problems.
They all need culling.

Talking of culling. Where's Moores and Parry?


NB. Thats not you up that mountain road is it?

Swiss rambler,you are a breath of fresh air.Your'e posts are informative,and whilst detailed,are expressed in terms that we can all understand.Ever thought of a political career?Well in mate and long may you continue to post.

Where did you get your figures from regarding what Rafa has spent swiss rambler as they are the only thing I take issue with really, you have Rafa's spend as below.

Spent          £249 million
Recouped    £141 million
Net spend    £109 million

How ever I have it in this thread http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=25582.0 as somewhat different.

Total Players Bought: £228,976,000

Total Players Sold: £145,100,000

Total Net Spend: £83,876,000

That was done in November 09 so if we add the sales of Voronin and Dossena

Voronin £1.8 m
Dossena £4.5 m

Thats £6.3 m from the final totals so it now stands at.

Total Players Bought: £228,976,000

Total Players Sold: £151,400,000

Total Net Spend: £77,576,00

Where did you get your figures from regarding what Rafa has spent swiss rambler as they are the only thing I take issue with really, you have Rafa's spend as below.

Spent          £249 million
Recouped    £141 million
Net spend    £109 million

How ever I have it in this thread http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=25582.0 as somewhat different.

Total Players Bought: £228,976,000

Total Players Sold: £145,100,000

Total Net Spend: £83,876,000

That was done in November 09 so if we add the sales of Voronin and Dossena

Voronin £1.8 m
Dossena £4.5 m

Thats £6.3 m from the final totals so it now stands at.

Total Players Bought: £228,976,000

Total Players Sold: £151,400,000

Total Net Spend: £77,576,00

Everyone has their favourite source for finances - my one has the net at £96m.

Are we a good investment? Yes and it's as simple as that.

We've got a club reaped in history and tradition, we've got a club managed by one of the best of his time, we've got some of the world's greatest players representing us week in week out and we've got us, the fans. The best in the world at what we do.

If somebody came to Anfield, bought us and handed Rafa a transfer kitty of a reasonable amount, allowed Rafa to deal with everything football then we would walk away with the title. Once we win that first League title, you'll see just how good an investment we are. Because once we get used to that habbit of winning major honours again, you'll see Anfield rocking on a match day like no other place in the world.

We almost had it in 08/09, the sound from the grounds - especially our away fans - was deafening. That's what we're capable of generating. And once that's sorted, the revenue from merchandise, whatever is recouped during match day and anything else will be rocketing. Every fan will be buying the "2010/11 Premiership winners" DVD, t-shirts, banners and anything else. And would do it with every single season. The revenue on that alone makes us a good investment.

Moreover, we're a sleeping giant. We're ready to explode on the scene, the wheels are well and truly in motion - although our current owners seem more intent on giving us square wheels making forward inroads much more difficult. We've got a youth set up ready and waiting to produce the next generation of quality, meaning huge transfer fees year on year won't be essential, we've got world class players like Reina signed up long term again making the need for many, expensive, transfers less likely.

We're as good an investment as you could find for anybody wanting to buy us.

The only stumbling block is that of 800 million pounds. You will recoup that at some point, but that's not the right figure given our current situation. We have the potential to be worth 800 mill, and then some probably, but right now, with the debt and that 800 million is far too much to be asking for. Even a quarter of that is pushing it.

But hopefully somebody will see the potential in Liverpool Football Club and be willing to part with their money, to help us realise that potential. And again, hopefully, the next owner of Liverpool Football Club will not be some two bob American c**t whose only interest is that on the debt he's left upon our club.

The only valid summary is provide by the last audited accounts,which we now have,for the year 2008/9.we know for certainty that they can only get worse this year.So with or without Rafa,our future will be determined by our new owners.

Where did you get your figures from regarding what Rafa has spent swiss rambler as they are the only thing I take issue with really, you have Rafa's spend as below.

I took these figures from the http://transferleague.co.uk/ site, as I find this a convenient one-stop shop for transfer data. I'm not sure that it's 100% accurate, but I don't think anybody can be absolutely certain about the details of every single transfer. On another forum, I was pointed towards http://www.lfchistory.net/transfers.asp , which supports your figure of just under £78m net spend. The big difference between is that I included the £14m purchase of Djibril Cisse within the Benitez ear, as his transfer was completed in July 2004, after Benitez arrived, but lfchistory classifies Cisse as a Houllier buy, because he initiated the transfer. Debatable either way, but I have further investigated this and discovered that the excellent Tomkins Times website includes Cisse within their definition of Benitez's purchases ("bought by Houllier but paid for out of Benitez’s budget"). In any case, whatever the exact figure, Benitez has been given substantial transfer funds since he arrived at Liverpool, though his budget has clearly been capped since the Hicks and Gillett takeover.

Thats not you up that mountain road is it?

I think you'll find that's a German Rambler

Swiss rambler,you are a breath of fresh air.Your'e posts are informative,and whilst detailed,are expressed in terms that we can all understand.Ever thought of a political career?Well in mate and long may you continue to post.

Thanks for your kind words. I have been a Finance Director for a number of organisations and spent most of my career attempting to de-mystify financials for people. Too many executives in the finance industry try to hide behind needlessly complex terminology. I get particularly annoyed when owners, chairmen and managing directors of football clubs try to mislead their own fans, so I am happy to clarify if/when I can.

I would venture to say our wagebill would actually be lower rather than staying the same. Therefor making the jump for Spurs more likely

Agree. 

With our consolidated debt running at 2.5 times our annual turnover! I know what my accountant would say!

I agree with almost the entirety of your post Swiss Rambler sans the part where you say the spending figures don't support Benitez.  You're right they don't on paper but in reality nobody was under any illusions that we weren't the weakest of the 'big four' prior to his arrival, some of that £75m-95m net spend (depending on sources) has been spent simply trying to play catch up and not necessarily on investing or building on the squad as such.  Great post otherwise and please continue to post as it's a breath of fresh air.

The club sold at 400 million, would leave the club debt free the onus would be on Tom & George to clear the debt with th proceeds of the sale leaving them 50 million between them in profit.

This in turn with the club being debt free could leave the owner willingly paying for a stadium from his own pocket or 2 taking up loans against a debt free club to build the stadium.

Personally a 400 million sale to me would be a good investment, it would guarantee pretty much a quick sale and would cut in half the price that fat Yank  c**t Hicks was babbling on about.

Yes, the payment for the club would involve RBS getting their loans back and a smaller loan to Kop Cayman (the two w*nk*rs' separaet financing company they set up for tax dodging purposes).

But, as I was trying to make the point in my other thread abt 'Liverpool in  healthy financial situation', the club's operating level profits have increased, and with new sponsorship deals, will continue to do so. The sponsorships, should offset the losses incurred for not making Champs leaue (it's abt 20m we lose out on, our Standard Chartered deals is 12.5 million more than Carlsberg deal + any run in Europe league).

It's actually a perfect time for a billionnaire to get the debpts off the club's back, take away crippling interest payments and watch the profits roll in.

As Arsenal have proved, you can still take out a long term loan for a new stadium and build a profitable club.

CMON U RICH PEOPLE, BUY BUY BUY!!!

ps: every day the two d*cks remain at the club, a little bit of me dies.

I think you'll find that's a German Rambler

Of course it is !