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      Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010

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      RedLFCBlood
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      Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      May 17, 2010 08:36:21 pm
      Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting

      On Friday 14th May representatives of the Spirit of Shankly Management Committee met with Premier League Chief Executive Richard Scudamore and some of his staff at their London headquarters.
       
      The meeting had been arranged to address concerns of members of the Spirit of Shankly supporters' union relating to the Premier League's role in regulating ownership of Premier League Clubs and specifically the problems at Liverpool Football Club.
       
      The Union had asked members to address their concerns directly to the Premier League and the meeting focussed mainly upon the questions that had been put by members.
       
      It would be fair to say that Mr Scudamore gave a polite and positive hearing to the concerns and clarified a number of points about Liverpool FC while at the same time having to observe confidentiality relating to much of our Club's affairs.
       
      It was important for members to note that the Premier League is not as such a regulator of the game, but effectively a private members' club owned by the twenty premiership clubs. The rules of that "members' club" have been created by the owners of the clubs themselves with those agreed rules regulated by the Premier League staff headed by Richard Scudamore. Clearly this leaves the owners of clubs in the position to consider how to operate the league and the strength of any rules to be applied.
       
      The meeting began with the Union representatives asking about the "fit and proper" test for owners and directors of football clubs. The questions that were asked related to Hicks' previous conduct at Corinthians in Brazil, his current conduct with Major League Baseball and Gillett's previous insolvency history and what relevance or consideration was given to them by the Premier League in their original consideration of the two and their ongoing role to regulate ownership of their Clubs.
       
      Mr Scudamore made it clear that the "fit and proper" test was comparatively limited and focussed mainly upon criminal convictions and insolvency relating to football clubs. In fact the insolvency test was even more limited in that a director had to have been involved in the insolvency of a club twice before they failed the test (and it had to be related to a football club not another business). He also made it clear that it was an objective test in that as long as a prospective owner did not fail against the rule there was no subjective test of an owner to consider all round abilities, commitment and credibility.
       
      The "fit and proper" test was being tightened up and there were proposals going before the summer meeting of the Premier League club owners. Mr Scudamore did not give details of those changes and made it clear that any changes could not be applied retrospectively to any owners. It was apparent that while the "fit and proper" test existed it really only reflected current UK legislation relating to ownership of any company (although extended somewhat to cover criminal convictions). For instance, Shinawatra at Manchester City had originally passed the test but it was only subsequent criminal proceedings in Thailand that saw the Premier League indicate that he had to relinquish control.
       
      The workings of the fit and proper test were that if a Club was to change hands then the seller would indicate prior to any concluded sale that a prospective purchaser had to pass the test and normally this check (completed and certified by the purchaser themselves) was concluded in the ten days or so before a sale took place by the purchaser submitting their own certification to the Premier League who then checked its accuracy.
       
      When asked about the leveraged buyout model that had been forced upon Liverpool FC despite the strong indications to the contrary given by Hicks and Gillett at the time, Mr Scudamore said that the Premier League itself was "owner model neutral" meaning that they took no role in how, and in what way football clubs were bought and sold (save for their fit and proper test). It was clear that the Premier League were unmoved about the models at both Liverpool and Manchester United. Additionally, conduct by owners in Liverpool FC's case after purchase relating to assurances about the purchase model and stadium construction were wholly irrelevant to the fit and proper test and formed no part of it.
       
      The Union representatives then moved on to talk about supporter ownership and whether the Premier League would consider enforcing supporter's representation within the short term and supporter ownership (in part) in the longer term. Mr Scudamore made it clear that they had no inclination or plans to do this and despite the political parties suggesting future legislation he was of the view that such legislation was firstly unlikely and secondly impractical to enforce in light of current UK legislation and laws.
       
      The UEFA licensing system that was due to come in over the next few years was discussed, particularly on the basis that as currently drafted it could allow clubs with benefactors owning them (Chelsea and Manchester City were mentioned) to have an advantage in being able to avoid its major implications. Mr Scudamore indicated that he felt that the licensing still needed more work upon it to make certain that it created a level playing field for clubs and did not achieve the exact reverse of what it was meant to avoid. He did say however, which has implications for Liverpool FC, that the plans focussed on a club's revenues and not on a club's debt particularly.
       
      Mr Scudamore was well aware of the Union's opposition to the current owners and clearly he knew Martin Broughton. He was unconcerned about our Chairman's Chelsea connections but as a Bristol City fan, was somewhat taken aback when asked how he would feel if a Bristol Rovers fan became Chairman of Bristol City! While making no comment upon our protests he did make it clear that he supported the Union continuing to ask questions of the Club and seeking responses from them.
       
      The major issue that the Union raised with him was that the club's accounts had been qualified for the last two years. He was asked whether, in accordance with the Premier League's own rules, this had triggered a review by the Premier League due to the concerns raised and of the risk of Liverpool FC not being able to fulfil its fixtures or being licensed by UEFA.
       
      He indicated that the Premier League had looked into Liverpool's accounts and had been satisfied that there was no cause for concern. He was challenged about the fact that Liverpool FC's accounts had by common consent, shown that its interest burden could not be met from its revenues, and for supporters this circle could not apparently be squared. He reiterated that he was unable to talk in detail about the accounts but it was clear from what he said that the solvency test that they had applied looked at the assets over liabilities and that effectively the Club did have other options to service its interest payments before more serious difficulties occurred. In the Union's view this was effectively the liquidation of playing assets.
       
      Mr Scudamore was also asked to confirm the depth of their review of Liverpool FC and its holding companies. He said they had looked as far as they could under UK law (meaning the holding companies registered in the UK) but not necessarily as far as all of the connected foreign companies. He did say that all Premier League clubs gave access to their financial and other business information and that the Premier League used specialists to advise on what was reviewed within clubs' accounts.
       
      The meeting ended with the Union thanking Mr Scudamore for agreeing to meet and an indication that the lines of communication that had been opened might have a benefit for both parties in the future.

      StevieG123
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #1: May 17, 2010 10:25:02 pm
      Cheers for posting this RLFCB, have been waiting for an article on the meeting to pop up, was wondering what had happened for some time. :)
      hobbithead
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #2: May 17, 2010 10:34:36 pm
      Good effort lads. I don't understand why these guys don't get the support they deserve. Were all playing for the same side. Even if your Rafa fan or not. We all want the same thing and thats those two idiots out.
      RedRoy
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #3: May 18, 2010 01:23:49 am
      Good idea,but basically the "fit and proper" test means f*ck all,as far as genuine commitment to football.Also if you want to avoid UK scrutinisation,set up an off-shore company."Kop Caymen" anybody.Ffs do they really think we are so pig thick?
      hobbithead
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #4: May 18, 2010 01:39:56 am
      Good idea,but basically the "fit and proper" test means f*ck all,as far as genuine commitment to football.Also if you want to avoid UK scrutinisation,set up an off-shore company."Kop Caymen" anybody.Ffs do they really think we are so pig thick?

      Good to see somebody is arsed to reply. Tell me if im out of turn saying this. But, i think the lack of support this group gets is terrible. You have so many people backing the manager because they can see why things are a mess from above. Yet, fail to be vocal about the efforts this group goes to. WTF is going on? Help me out here, im not as dedicated as going to games as i should be and don't want to sound condescending to those that do. But, these guys are the only voice piece we have. Why are we not supporting them more? Three frigging replys?
      RedRoy
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #5: May 18, 2010 01:53:10 am
      Mate three years ago I made a decision to sell up and return south to support the campaign to remove the owners.SOS do their bit,but they are becoming the "political wing" of protest.In reality,we the fans have the power.Simple,stop buying merchandise,and stop going to the game.You could end this dilema in weeks.Imagine the owners were the S*n,what would you do?
      Liverpool_babe
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #6: May 18, 2010 02:49:41 am
      Hey RedRoy - totally agree with ya mate, it's probably easier for me than you guys since I'm in Australia, so not going to the games - done! However not buying the new top - I can wait until the pigs are out and then buy it. No biggie. Really, would love to be a fan owned club like Barcelona is.
      hobbithead
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #7: May 18, 2010 02:58:39 am
      Mate three years ago I made a decision to sell up and return south to support the campaign to remove the owners.SOS do their bit,but they are becoming the "political wing" of protest.In reality,we the fans have the power.Simple,stop buying merchandise,and stop going to the game.You could end this dilema in weeks.Imagine the owners were the S*n,what would you do?

      Completely in agreement mate. I'm surprised this hasn't been picked up on sooner. We need to stop the bickering over the trivial and concentrate on the real problem-the owners!!!!!
      hobbithead
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #8: May 18, 2010 06:19:42 pm
      Why isnt this top of the agenda along with removing mr blobby and noel edmonds.
      racerx34
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #9: May 18, 2010 11:05:53 pm
      Hope this is the thin edge of the wedge and not lip service on behalf of the F. A. Doesnt look like they have a whole lot of power anyway with the neutral body statement. We need to ensure this never happens to us or any other club again but from what I have read that reassurance is not evident. Time to step up the actions but well done SOS.
      SpionKop88
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #10: May 19, 2010 12:11:50 am
      I think a big pat on the back is what those members of SOS who went down to London deserve: a) for having the balls to take the argument to the Premier League,  b) for letting Scudamore know just HOW F*CKING MUCH we want them 2 c*nts out of our club & back over their side of the pond, and c) we arent as thick as some people make us out to be, because we know almost every single thing about their (H&G's) financial operations regarding LFC

      YNWA - The day is coming when H&G f*ck off
      hobbithead
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #11: May 19, 2010 12:18:02 am
      I think a big pat on the back is what those members of SOS who went down to London deserve: a) for having the balls to take the argument to the Premier League,  b) for letting Scudamore know just HOW F*CKING MUCH we want them 2 c*nts out of our club & back over their side of the pond, and c) we arent as thick as some people make us out to be, because we know almost every single thing about their (H&G's) financial operations regarding LFC

      YNWA - The day is coming when H&G f*ck off

      Well said, iM so chuffed we have people like this battling to find out wtf went wrong with letting these pillocks in charge. Signing up tomorrow for SOS membership. I recommend people do the same. If of course during these sh*te times they can afford.

      YNWA IRIT YANKS OUT!!!!!
      hobbithead
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #12: May 19, 2010 12:19:23 am
      Hope this is the thin edge of the wedge and not lip service on behalf of the F. A. Doesnt look like they have a whole lot of power anyway with the neutral body statement. We need to ensure this never happens to us or any other club again but from what I have read that reassurance is not evident. Time to step up the actions but well done SOS.

      Touche, boycotting of merchandise and games sounds like a good idea.
      Misty
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #13: May 19, 2010 12:22:44 am
      Well done guys!

      The day is coming..... yanks out!!!
      racerx34
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #14: May 19, 2010 12:27:02 am
      Im all on for a merchandise black out and the e-mail/media campaign. Although we will probably all be blocked from the mail lists now. Not sure about the turning of Anfield into a hostile environment for the team though but then again what other options are there.
      redkenny
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #15: May 19, 2010 12:33:15 am
      Well said, iM so chuffed we have people like this battling to find out wtf went wrong with letting these pillocks in charge. Signing up tomorrow for SOS membership. I recommend people do the same. If of course during these sh*te times they can afford.

      YNWA IRIT YANKS OUT!!!!!

      Good stuff mate. If anything, there is more organization in protests etc the more people join the union.

      In regards to this by the way, how many people sent the email back in March?

      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=28381.msg622228#msg622228
      hobbithead
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #16: May 19, 2010 01:12:34 am
      Good stuff mate. If anything, there is more organization in protests etc the more people join the union.

      In regards to this by the way, how many people sent the email back in March?

      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=28381.msg622228#msg622228

      The one to the premierleague? If so i did.

      I'm a little miffed as to why this was removed from the main page. Whats going on MODS? This needs as much coverage as possible.  :(

      edit: Just checked, ;D. Yes, there was a list of email adresses that i sent an email to. Was on top of this as soon as it became apparent what our owners were upto.
      RedRoy
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #17: May 19, 2010 01:29:48 am
      Well in SOS brothers,the answers from the FA are predictable,but the pressure needed to be applied.Our current financial plight,will throw up more ammunition in the weeks to come.This will indeed be another difficult time in our history,but now as before we must keep the faith.
      hobbithead
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #18: May 19, 2010 11:25:55 pm
      Good stuff mate. If anything, there is more organization in protests etc the more people join the union.

      In regards to this by the way, how many people sent the email back in March?

      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=28381.msg622228#msg622228

      Just signed up. bas**rds out!!!!!!!!!
      RedRoy
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #19: May 22, 2010 01:18:19 am
      Recent accounts for 2009,highlight even more ducking and diving.What the f*ck is Kop Football (Caymen) all about.Owners lending even more "borrowed" money to the club at 10% annual interest.Smacks of even more syphoning of money out of the club.Wouldn't surprise me to see a significant increase in season ticket prices soon,as they intend to milk the club prior to their departure.
      hobbithead
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      Re: Spirit of Shankly - Premier League Meeting Monday 17th May 2010
      Reply #20: May 22, 2010 07:01:46 pm
      Recent accounts for 2009,highlight even more ducking and diving.What the f*ck is Kop Football (Caymen) all about.Owners lending even more "borrowed" money to the club at 10% annual interest.Smacks of even more syphoning of money out of the club.Wouldn't surprise me to see a significant increase in season ticket prices soon,as they intend to milk the club prior to their departure.

      Boycott sounds like the best option if they do.

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