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      International friendlies

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      s@int
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #713: Mar 30, 2016 11:48:37 pm
      I get exactly what you're saying PM. Somebody made the judgement that he only warranted an U21 contract, Brendan was clearly involved in that conversation. Whether he liked him or not he clearly didn't get across to the men who would negotiate the contract that he was more important in his plans than that.

      Brendan, as usual, has been happy to tell his side of the story deflecting all blame from himself. If Brendan wanted him as a first team player he could have sold someone like Allen to make room on the wage bill, but no of course Brendan was completely innocent in this if you believe him. We've heard enough of Brendan's lies to know the truth is probably quite different from the version he'd like you to swallow.

      If I were to guess I'd say Brendan thought he was a top prospect but didn't want to give up a first team or squad status player in order to fit him into the squad and therefore we lost out on him. It was a f**k up, one we became all too used to and exactly what I hope will change moving forward.



      Harsh!

      Or maybe we should blame Benitez because we didn't sign Aguero, Walcott and Ramsey. We lost out on all those three because we weren't willing to pay the price, maybe Rafa should have sold a few squad players to make up the difference ?

      It's obvious we didn't fully recognise Ali's talent or no doubt we would have made more of an effort, but if we had bought him and missed out on Firmino :) for example the forum would have been in uproar. Brendan probably felt he needed players who would make an immediate impact to save his job not someone who he probably thought might come good a few years down the line (when he wouldn't be here)

      Hindsight is great mate. 
      FL Red
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #714: Mar 31, 2016 12:08:13 am

      Hey at least you are being honest now ;D
      Dadorious
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #715: Mar 31, 2016 03:48:25 am
      Harsh!

      Or maybe we should blame Benitez because we didn't sign Aguero, Walcott and Ramsey. We lost out on all those three because we weren't willing to pay the price, maybe Rafa should have sold a few squad players to make up the difference ?

      It's obvious we didn't fully recognise Ali's talent or no doubt we would have made more of an effort, but if we had bought him and missed out on Firmino :) for example the forum would have been in uproar. Brendan probably felt he needed players who would make an immediate impact to save his job not someone who he probably thought might come good a few years down the line (when he wouldn't be here)

      Hindsight is great mate. 


      Rafa never missed out on those 3 because he could never come  to a position where a fee was discussed between the parties let alone the players wages.

      Hicks and Gillett.
      s@int
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #716: Mar 31, 2016 06:10:32 am
      Rafa never missed out on those 3 because he could never come  to a position where a fee was discussed between the parties let alone the players wages.

      Hicks and Gillett.

      Nah mate, Rafa said at the time that he couldn't gamble on a 17 year old. He then went and bought Pennant  for around £7million and Kuyt for £10million. Aguero eventually went for £17.5 million.Again with Walcott we bought Bellamy instead.

      BTW both those were under Moores not Hicks and Gillett.

       Ramsey, Rafa again said that he couldn't gamble on high priced teens because he needed to strengthen the first team. So we went for Barry instead of Ramsey (we all know how that turned out)

      Personally I don't blame Rafa OR Brendan, they were under pressure to deliver results and high priced teenagers who would need a few years to develop just wasn't on their agenda when we also needed first team players.

      Certainly Aguero was mad keen to come to Liverpool

      Highly-rated Argentinian teenager Sergio Aguero wants to join Liverpool.

      Highly-rated Argentinian teenager Sergio Aguero says that he would rather join European champions Liverpool than German giants Bayern Munich.

      Bayern had been looking to make a move for the promising 17-year-old attacker, and were willing to pay around £10 million for his services.

      Chairman Karl-Heinz Rummenigge hinted a bid would be forthcoming sooner rather than later in the hope of getting their foot  in the door ahead of Real Madrid and Barcelona.

      However, the Independiente youngster says that he would rather join Rafa Benitez's Liverpool - the club he says he supported as a boy.


      "If I had to choose a league then it would be the Premier League," Aguero is quoted as saying in the Munich TZ newspaper.

      "I have been a Liverpool fan for as long as I can remember and it would be a dream to play there.

      "I watched the Champions League final and celebrated every goal as if it was for Independiente."


      Benitez has already dipped into the Argentine market to sign young defender Gabriel Paletta from Banfield for next season, and he could make a move for compatriot Aguero.

      The 17-year-old, who plays in midfield or up front, is being tipped as the next big thing from South America, and has been backed to make as big an impact as Lionel Messi in Europe.

      Benitez is always on the look-out for fresh new talent to bring to Anfield and Aguero's comments will make him confident of beating off a host of top European sides if he decides to make a move.

      KopiteLuke
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #717: Mar 31, 2016 12:12:13 pm
      Harsh!

      Or maybe we should blame Benitez because we didn't sign Aguero, Walcott and Ramsey. We lost out on all those three because we weren't willing to pay the price, maybe Rafa should have sold a few squad players to make up the difference ?

      It's obvious we didn't fully recognise Ali's talent or no doubt we would have made more of an effort, but if we had bought him and missed out on Firmino :) for example the forum would have been in uproar. Brendan probably felt he needed players who would make an immediate impact to save his job not someone who he probably thought might come good a few years down the line (when he wouldn't be here)

      Hindsight is great mate. 


      Well you say harsh and then go on to basically agree with me. As for Rafa he made his views on the people dealing with the transfers and contracts quite clear before he left, hardly fair to compare the two with or without hindsight.

      One is a fully fledged member of the self preservation society and I'm tired of his continual deflection, needs to grow a pair and accept some responsibility.

      Hey at least you are being honest now ;D


      Yeah because calling Brendan a liar, or stating that he had a role on the transfer committee is just a pack of lies apart from the fact there's a mountain of proof to back it up.
      FL Red
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #718: Mar 31, 2016 12:15:29 pm
      Well you say harsh and then go on to basically agree with me. As for Rafa he made his views on the people dealing with the transfers and contracts quite clear before he left, hardly fair to compare the two with or without hindsight.

      One is a fully fledged member of the self preservation society and I'm tired of his continual deflection, needs to grow a pair and accept some responsibility.

      Yeah because calling Brendan a liar, or stating that he had a role on the transfer committee is just a pack of lies apart from the fact there's a mountain of proof to back it up.

      Lot of ifs and probablys in your post. It's just your opinion, that's fine, just glad you owned up to the fact that you are merely speculating, especially since you don't have a wall of statistics to "back up" your claims.
      David Wright
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #719: Mar 31, 2016 12:31:41 pm
      Just glad there where no more fresh injuries, to any of our players. These International friendlies are a complete waste of time to my mind.  Woy did enough to sabotage our team when he was appointed manager by those two American cowboys, without inflicting any more damage to the club.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #720: Mar 31, 2016 12:33:10 pm
      Lot of ifs and probablys in your post. It's just your opinion, that's fine, just glad you owned up to the fact that you are merely speculating, especially since you don't have a wall of statistics to "back up" your claims.

      So you don't like it when I:

      Post long posts because you're killed by a wall of text.
      Post a "wall of statistics"
      You claim I'm "owning up" when I'm posting my opinion.

      Anymore pathetic swipes you want to take at my posts, it's getting beyond tedious now.
      FL Red
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #721: Mar 31, 2016 01:28:53 pm
      So you don't like it when I:

      Post long posts because you're killed by a wall of text.
      Post a "wall of statistics"
      You claim I'm "owning up" when I'm posting my opinion.

      Anymore pathetic swipes you want to take at my posts, it's getting beyond tedious now.

      Tedious is having to read one of your short story posts where you basically try to prove to everyone how smart you are. I've literally avoided some of these threads because of the pointless bickering and wall of text posts citing mountains of statistics to tell everyone else they are wrong and you are right. You could add a lot of value to this forum if you'd step back every once in awhile and concede that the truth doesn't start and end at your keyboard.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #722: Mar 31, 2016 01:50:43 pm
      Tedious is having to read one of your short story posts where you basically try to prove to everyone how smart you are.

      That's the way you interpret them FL.

      I've literally avoided some of these threads because of the pointless bickering and wall of text posts citing mountains of statistics to tell everyone else they are wrong and you are right.

      Yeah I appreciate that but when a select few are haranguing your opinion do you lie down and accept their point of view or succumb to the false representation of your opinion, personally I'd rather stand up for what I believe is actually the truth. 

      You could add a lot of value to this forum if you'd step back every once in awhile and concede that the truth doesn't start and end at your keyboard.

      Thanks.

      All I'd say to that is there are enough examples on here of me admitting when I'm wrong to know that I don't believe that for a second and I've intentionally left those threads alone because I do totally understand how irritating that will have been for those looking in.
      s@int
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #723: Mar 31, 2016 02:05:40 pm
      Well you say harsh and then go on to basically agree with me. As for Rafa he made his views on the people dealing with the transfers and contracts quite clear before he left, hardly fair to compare the two with or without hindsight.

      One is a fully fledged member of the self preservation society and I'm tired of his continual deflection, needs to grow a pair and accept some responsibility.

      This is were the hypocrisy set in Luke. "Brendan, as usual, has been happy to tell his side of the story deflecting all blame from himself."

      While "Rafa made his views on the people dealing with the transfers and contracts quite clear. "

      Not going to get in an argument mate and I will leave it here, but surely you can see the hypocrisy?



      KopiteLuke
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #724: Mar 31, 2016 02:07:25 pm
      This is were the hypocrisy set in Luke. "Brendan, as usual, has been happy to tell his side of the story deflecting all blame from himself."

      While "Rafa made his views on the people dealing with the transfers and contracts quite clear. "

      Not going to get in an argument mate and I will leave it here, but surely you can see the hypocrisy?




      No mate because Rafa did it while he was here, Brendan did it only after he left so clearly different to me.

      To elaborate mate so there's no confusion:

      The difference I see is one was stating the problems with the interests of the club at heart the other is only now stating the problems to look after himself. One way I can admire and respect the other I can simply say it's exactly how I expected him to react. If you say I should look at both exactly the same then we'll have to agree to disagree.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #725: Mar 31, 2016 02:27:39 pm
      This is were the hypocrisy set in Luke. "Brendan, as usual, has been happy to tell his side of the story deflecting all blame from himself."

      While "Rafa made his views on the people dealing with the transfers and contracts quite clear. "

      Not going to get in an argument mate and I will leave it here, but surely you can see the hypocrisy?





      Yeah manager who won trophies having a pop.

      Fraud who won F**k all using excuses.

      Do I win a prize?  :D
      s@int
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #726: Mar 31, 2016 02:34:31 pm
      No mate because Rafa did it while he was here, Brendan did it only after he left so clearly different to me.

      To elaborate mate so there's no confusion:

      The difference I see is one was stating the problems with the interests of the club at heart the other is only now stating the problems to look after himself. One way I can admire and respect the other I can simply say it's exactly how I expected him to react. If you say I should look at both exactly the same then we'll have to agree to disagree.


      No mate, Rafa was in a power struggle, with himself and Hicks on one side and Parry and Gillett on the other.... facht.

      While Brendan was in a power struggle with the Transfer Committee.

      The fact that Rafa continually went public airing our dirty laundry in public and finally condemning Parry , while Brendan chose to do things "the Liverpool Way" and say nothing until he left is perhaps the best tribute to Brendan... you can make your own mind up about what Rafa did.

      Strangly when a director of Liverpool went public with his views on Rafa,  Rafa insisted he resign and as Moores said at the time "this is not the Liverpool way of doing business. The proper place for debate is around the boardroom table." Obviously it was o.k. for Rafa to criticise Parry, but he was a little more sensitive when it came the other way. 

       

       

         
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #727: Mar 31, 2016 02:39:30 pm
      No mate, Rafa was in a power struggle, with himself and Hicks on one side and Parry and Gillett on the other.... facht.

      While Brendan was in a power struggle with the Transfer Committee.

      The fact that Rafa continually went public airing our dirty laundry in public and finally condemning Parry , while Brendan chose to do things "the Liverpool Way" and say nothing until he left is perhaps the best tribute to Brendan... you can make your own mind up about what Rafa did.

       

       

         

      Interesting interpretation you have there, I completely disagree with it.

      "The Liverpool Way" to me doesn't mean you keep schtum about a problem while reaping the benefits and then once your benefits stop you start singing like a song bird making excuse after excuse.

      As for what Rafa did, he was clearly shafted from a great height and rather than protect his pocket he came out and told us all, something I personally respect.

      So it's quite clear we see both sides of this surprisingly differently.
      s@int
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #728: Mar 31, 2016 02:51:38 pm
      Interesting interpretation you have there, I completely disagree with it.

      "The Liverpool Way" to me doesn't mean you keep schtum about a problem while reaping the benefits and then once your benefits stop you start singing like a song bird making excuse after excuse.

      As for what Rafa did, he was clearly shafted from a great height and rather than protect his pocket he came out and told us all, something I personally respect.

      So it's quite clear we see both sides of this surprisingly differently.

      No mate the Liverpool way means keeping things "in house" not running to the press every time you have a problem with someone or trying to get them sacked as Rafa did on numerous occasions, with White, Parry and Purslow being the headline ones.

      Maybe you respect the fact that Rafa went public and complained about losing his job, went public and complained about problems with transfers, went public and complained about his new contract, but strangely never went public and complained about the debt. In fact he did just the opposite, he told the fans not to protest and told Gerrard not to protest.

      The fact that Rafa tried to leverage his new contract on the back of player contracts was just another little flaw we saw. Yet when Kuyt went public ... that was not the Liverpool way! :)

      Sadly I still find it hard to resist a Rafa argument but I will leave it there as it only make everyone hate me and changes no ones mind.

      As King Kenny said "it was right for everybody that Rafa Benitez left "


      « Last Edit: Mar 31, 2016 03:05:06 pm by s@int »
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #729: Mar 31, 2016 03:08:24 pm
      No mate the Liverpool way means keeping things "in house" not running to the press every time you have a problem with someone or trying to get them sacked as Rafa did on numerous occasions, with White, Parry and Purslow being the headline ones.

      Maybe you respect the fact that Rafa went public and complained about losing his job, went public and complained about problems with transfers, went public and complained about his new contract, but strangely never went public and complained about the debt. In fact he did just the opposite, he told the fans not to protest and told Gerrard not to protest.

      The fact that Rafa tried to leverage his new contract on the back of player contracts was just another little flaw we saw. Yet when Kuyt went public ... that was not the Liverpool way! :)

      Sadly I still find it hard to resist a Rafa argument but I will leave it there as it only make everyone hate me and changes no ones mind.

      As King Kenny said "it was right for everybody that Rafa Benitez left "




      Don't worry mate I'll never hate you for an honest opinion.

      I see you've got plenty of past blood in this argument though and it is probably best left with an agreement to disagree.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #730: Mar 31, 2016 03:17:24 pm
      Edit: didn't want to bring a Rafa vs Rodgers argument into this :)

      I decided to do a quick search, and Spurs actually signed Dele Alli at the end of mid season January 2015 window. It was also said by James Pearce that we weren't even interested in him then (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/revealed-how-liverpool-fc-missed-10461719) because we had signed Can in the summer with Milner incoming for next season. Spurs' only competition to sign him were Villa and Newcastle. 

      This further indicates that Rodgers saw him as a youth player rather than Senior when we probably looked into it 2014 summer, and come January window 2015, I don't think Rodgers was interested enough to pursue because of the emergence of Can and the incoming transfer of Milner which is understandable tbh.

      Quote from:  Rodgers on Alli
      "I spent a couple of hours in a hotel room with him and he wanted to come to Liverpool. It was all about getting the deal done with the club but unfortunately it never got done.

      "On Saturday evening we thought it had got done but eventually he went to Tottenham, which was frustrating and disappointing. He's done really well there."

      http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/10134141/dele-alli-wanted-to-sign-for-liverpool-and-we-thought-we-had-him-says-brendan-rodgers

      From the quick research I did, I suspect Rodgers is not telling the whole truth, but also, not blaming FSG because I feel he knows Alli loss was mainly down to him.
      s@int
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #731: Mar 31, 2016 03:20:16 pm
      Don't worry mate I'll never hate you for an honest opinion.

      I see you've got plenty of past blood in this argument though and it is probably best left with an agreement to disagree.


      All water under the bridge now mate... or at least that's what I keep trying to tell myself. :D

      Agreeing to disagree is just about the best outcome I can ever hope for in any Rafa argument...thanks for that.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #732: Nov 15, 2016 08:28:06 pm
      Lallana off injured.

      F**k off England.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #733: Nov 15, 2016 08:41:55 pm
      Lallana off injured.

      F**k off England.

      I think you'll find it was Spain who did the damage.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #734: Nov 15, 2016 08:48:12 pm
      I think you'll find it was Spain who did the damage.

      Well he played a full 90 against Scotland and started again today in a friendly so it's ALL England's fault :)

      Hoping Hendo doesn't play the full 90.
      LFCSTEVE1984
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      Re: International friendlies
      Reply #735: Nov 15, 2016 09:23:21 pm
      Well he played a full 90 against Scotland and started again today in a friendly so it's ALL England's fault :)

      Hoping Hendo doesn't play the full 90.

      Why are the city players coming off?

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