LFC - not the only ones with debt but why are we the only ones 'in turmoil'?

Without going into the balance sheet ins and out which to be fair will be above the understanding of many of us fans, it frustrates me that Liverpool seem to have been on the receiving end of sensationalist media coverage concerning our debts and the impact on the club.

For example - Liverpool supporters explored the idea of a fans buyout and a lot of effort was put into getting it off the ground. Media coverage? To the best of my knowledge hardly a whisper. Where as Man Utd who's debts eclipse ours have the media fawning all over the aborted 'Red Knights' project and what a wonderfully romantic idea it is.

I appreciate there are greater differences but what I am getting at is that we need to have a focused united front which can work with and manage the media engagement rather than just bleat on about it. We are the true people's club and yet we are so often portrayed as bitter, in-fighting, unsophisticated, factional groups by the media.

Email campagns have their uses but are they any more effective than the Mancs green and yellow scarves? Many people I speak to know about the Manc 'protest' but little or nothing about our activities other than protests in the streets.

I do not pretend to have big answers but appreciate the opportunity the forum provides to express an opinion and a concern.

YNWA

Its because manchester united win things, and taggart has been manager for years

The 'Red Knights' were typical Man U supporters - London-based, City bas**rds. Our campaign involved the ordinary supporter much more - easy to ignore in this world where money is the only thing that matters.

That aside, perhaps Liverpool supporters should have a press officer?

ManUre have a bigger fan base mainly due to a more sophisticated and better organised commercial set up globally, we are catching up but they still generate more money than anyone with their promotional machine.
Not forgetting of course the stadium they had the forsight to build many years ago, a project that was carried out with the club's interest and future in mind which is why LFC's owners have made no attempt to put a spade into contact with the ground-they care not a jot for the future of this club.
Manure therefore have a huge turnover to service their debt whilst we are subject to the owners plundering the club and asset stripping which they are now in the process of instigating.

The Red Knight concept was another flawed attempt at buying a football club. They were in affect swapping one pile of debt for a large pile of debt, again which had to be serviced.
As soon as the Platini's recent ruling regarding financial sustainability and countenance kicks in the better. Then all clubs with be operating on a fairly even playing field. Particularly then the size of your core fan base really will count.
In the intervening period I think administration for us is now looking more and more attractive. At least then whoever purchased us from the administrator would only pay for the bank debt and Hicks would have no say in the outcome. Hicks and his mate would probably not get a brass cent from any ensuing sale. I think a nine point hobble at the beginning of a season would be a small price to pay.
Drastic I know, but then these are drastic times?

Any thoughts

Provided the players stay.

RBS will not call in the loan and therefore force us into administration. They know that if they do that they will end up getting pennies in the pound. Every day banks force small businesses to close over loans of a few thousand pounds but when a loan is as huge as ours and pays about £30m in interest a year they will sit back and let it ride.

The circus of fools that are running and ruining our club will just flog off players every time they get short of cash.

Without going into the balance sheet ins and out which to be fair will be above the understanding of many of us fans, it frustrates me that Liverpool seem to have been on the receiving end of sensationalist media coverage concerning our debts and the impact on the club.

For example - Liverpool supporters explored the idea of a fans buyout and a lot of effort was put into getting it off the ground. Media coverage? To the best of my knowledge hardly a whisper. Where as Man Utd who's debts eclipse ours have the media fawning all over the aborted 'Red Knights' project and what a wonderfully romantic idea it is.

I appreciate there are greater differences but what I am getting at is that we need to have a focused united front which can work with and manage the media engagement rather than just bleat on about it. We are the true people's club and yet we are so often portrayed as bitter, in-fighting, unsophisticated, factional groups by the media.

Email campagns have their uses but are they any more effective than the Mancs green and yellow scarves? Many people I speak to know about the Manc 'protest' but little or nothing about our activities other than protests in the streets.

I do not pretend to have big answers but appreciate the opportunity the forum provides to express an opinion and a concern.

YNWA

We are very easy targets for the media though ,Manchester United put on a united front and very little negative publicity comes out from the club regarding there debt,was fairly obvious last summer when they sold Ronaldo and didn't particularly spend the money where it went ,you only need to look at the situation they are in to realise it's worse than ours
But at Liverpool we have The Rafa camp leaking stories ,The Anti Rafa camp leaking stories to the media ,everything was being played out through the papers and of course they seized on it and it's quite sickening as it's just not the Liverpool way ,well never used to be 
 

The Red Knight concept was another flawed attempt at buying a football club. They were in affect swapping one pile of debt for a large pile of debt, again which had to be serviced.
As soon as the Platini's recent ruling regarding financial sustainability and countenance kicks in the better. Then all clubs with be operating on a fairly even playing field. Particularly then the size of your core fan base really will count.
In the intervening period I think administration for us is now looking more and more attractive. At least then whoever purchased us from the administrator would only pay for the bank debt and Hicks would have no say in the outcome. Hicks and his mate would probably not get a brass cent from any ensuing sale. I think a nine point hobble at the beginning of a season would be a small price to pay.
Drastic I know, but then these are drastic times?

Any thoughts

A nine point penalty in exchange for freeing us of the cancer that afflicts the club is a godsend and the road back to glory would stretch ahead.
Eufa have at last decided to act on the likes of our owners who borrow the clubs name and history to procure capital and bleed it dry, the net is closing on H&G and their ilk.

A nine point penalty in exchange for freeing us of the cancer that afflicts the club is a godsend and the road back to glory would stretch ahead.
Eufa have at last decided to act on the likes of our owners who borrow the clubs name and history to procure capital and bleed it dry, the net is closing on H&G and their ilk.

Agreed. I would take a nine point hit to get these two f**** out of the club forever.

I'd accept a 9-point penalty if it got rid of those evil bas**rds

RBS will not call in the loan and therefore force us into administration. They know that if they do that they will end up getting pennies in the pound. Every day banks force small businesses to close over loans of a few thousand pounds but when a loan is as huge as ours and pays about £30m in interest a year they will sit back and let it ride.

The circus of fools that are running and ruining our club will just flog off players every time they get short of cash.

Having 25 years experience in Banking we had a saying...if we (the bank) are owed £1000 it's the customers problem...if we are owed £1000000 it is our problem.....RBS wont want to be the ones to pull the plug unless they are left with no alternative.

http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=30569.0

Reply 48.

On TV tomorrow. BBC   Panorama
The ills of debt in football.
We are sure to get a mention.



Once we've had Independence Day against the Yanks we need to seriously bring into line  RBS.
They are the ones giving the Yanks the oxygen whilst Hicks flies his 800 million kite.

Next stop.
Attack R.B.S.

A nine point penalty in exchange for freeing us of the cancer that afflicts the club is a godsend and the road back to glory would stretch ahead.
Eufa have at last decided to act on the likes of our owners who borrow the clubs name and history to procure capital and bleed it dry, the net is closing on H&G and their ilk.

i totally agree with you on that. i gladly take a 9pt penalty if it ment the end of those cu*ts reign

We are very easy targets for the media though ,Manchester United put on a united front and very little negative publicity comes out from the club regarding there debt,was fairly obvious last summer when they sold Ronaldo and didn't particularly spend the money where it went ,you only need to look at the situation they are in to realise it's worse than ours
But at Liverpool we have The Rafa camp leaking stories ,The Anti Rafa camp leaking stories to the media ,everything was being played out through the papers and of course they seized on it and it's quite sickening as it's just not the Liverpool way ,well never used to be 
 

yep
The Liverpool way has always been to keep things internally. People are blaming the press but there has been so much leaked its unbeleavable . This people are just adding the fuel to a already out of control media fire

Having 25 years experience in Banking we had a saying...if we (the bank) are owed £1000 it's the customers problem...if we are owed £1000000 it is our problem.....RBS wont want to be the ones to pull the plug unless they are left with no alternative.

I think the crux of the issue is this.

The owners owe RBS about £350M.  RBS' backsides are twitching because they value the club at most at about £350M.

The owners seem to think they can get £800M.

It's clear to me that RBS have handed the owners a deadline to sell.  If they do not sell then I can't see RBS allowing them more and more time to base on their futile speculation.

At some point, and it will come sooner rather than later, RBS will say you can't have more time and we will go in to administration being owned by the bank.

I think the crux of the issue is this.

The owners owe RBS about £350M.  RBS' backsides are twitching because they value the club at most at about £350M.

The owners seem to think they can get £800M.

It's clear to me that RBS have handed the owners a deadline to sell.  If they do not sell then I can't see RBS allowing them more and more time to base on their futile speculation.

At some point, and it will come sooner rather than later, RBS will say you can't have more time and we will go in to administration being owned by the bank.

Of course the stupid bas**rds are under the illusion that tbey have some time to play with or would like to give that impression the reality is they are on a financial tightrope having exhausted and crapped upon all credit and good intentions.
They arrogantly believe that the supporters will save the club and in the process rescue their cash cow, they have totally failed to make any plans in the event of everything going tits up because that if it were done properly would entail some outlay, something not on their agenda.
As I posted previously administration although a devastating process would F**k the owners off and could possibly cost them money-music to our ears.

We are in turnmoil largely due to the two carpet beggars from across the Atlantic. It is in their interest to have all the Liverpool supporters going at each other throats over issue that is of no concern to them whatsoever, issue such as who is the best manager to take our team forward. The most important objective for them now is to keep the debt as "manageable" as possible before flogging us off for maximum profit to the next buyer even if it means having to sell a few of our star players after the world cup. Adious Amigo, no more pesky Rafa to block their masterplan. 

Seems to me that the media has in for us. Take for example the protest outside Anfield after Rafa's departure, hundreds of fans clearly angry and chanting in support of Rafa. Yet SlySports managed to find two "supporters" to interview who felt Rafa's going was a good thing.

Aquilani - according to the press he's a 20Million pound flop, albeit he spent his first season mostly injured - but Berbatov (a massive flop) is barely mentioned in a negative light.

They'll do anything to put a more negative spin on our already negative situation.

Agreed. I would take a nine point hit to get these two f**** out of the club forever.

i'd donate a left testicle to rid us of these 2 cancerous snakes. beat that!

I'd donate a left testicle to rid us of these 2 cancerous snakes. beat that!

I'll donate both your testicles.

but we cant while the banks are still happy to sit back and extend the loans. Personally i have emailed RBS senior execs, the prime ministers office and nothing not a word from any, purslow wont allow his email address to be put out and that would fall on deaf ears anyway. we are the one in turmoil because institutions are allowing it to happen, RBS are being pulled out of the sh*te at our expense, the payments in interest alone are contributing to the payments to be returned for the bail out to the government. The government? they couldnt give a sh*te, just like the banks they just want the money back in the pot, we're in a recession it seems. we are right royally fooked, turmoil? its a nightmare, where are all  the oil barons and island owners? not one in sight. Broughton did say that any sale would be behind closed doors but come on we need a glimmer of something. quite clearly there has to be something happening. optimistically Rafa left as a term of purchase from a new buyer, pesimestically, Rafa had a loose tongue therefore was more likely to reveal the lies from inside the club, 'There you go Mr Benitez £6million now keep your mouth shut or we will get it back with interest". sorry guys, just fancied a rant.

sod it i'll donate my wife and kids, they're all quite resilient, and the kids are hard workers, wife isnt too bad but not much to be expected from her........

Basically we are in turmoil because our deluded owners are contiuing to duck and dive right to the brink of Administration.Don't forget,they are not only owners,they are also "crediors",we owe their offshore company Kop(Cayman) Ltd., £144 million,so they would get to walk away with some or all of that,depending how much the club was sold for eventually.

I think the crux of the issue is this.

The owners owe RBS about £350M.  RBS' backsides are twitching because they value the club at most at about £350M.

The owners seem to think they can get £800M.

It's clear to me that RBS have handed the owners a deadline to sell.  If they do not sell then I can't see RBS allowing them more and more time to base on their futile speculation.

At some point, and it will come sooner rather than later, RBS will say you can't have more time and we will go in to administration being owned by the bank.


Or a buyer will come in at the 11th hour and buy us for the price of the debt. This is what I have susspected for the last 6 months or so. One of the Arab consortiums. D.I.C. I fancy.

Everybody read this
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Liverpool-takeover-Tom-Hicks-scuppers-two-perfect-fit-offers-for-Anfield-club-article452141.html

ManUre have a bigger fan base mainly due to a more sophisticated and better organised commercial set up globally, we are catching up but they still generate more money than anyone with their promotional machine.
Not forgetting of course the stadium they had the forsight to build many years ago, a project that was carried out with the club's interest and future in mind which is why LFC's owners have made no attempt to put a spade into contact with the ground-they care not a jot for the future of this club.
Manure therefore have a huge turnover to service their debt whilst we are subject to the owners plundering the club and asset stripping which they are now in the process of instigating.

It's true, stuey. It's true so it's hurt.