Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread

I would be really happy for the man, deserves it our Rafa.

I think Valencia were 12 behind at the turn of the season when they won La Liga under Rafa the first time. I can't see Juve dropping the pts for lots of reasons but I hope they do.

Rafa's boys third 4 behind Roma and 11 behind Juve. I've said it before, they might just do it.

33/1 mate, not a bad price. I don't know if you're a betting man, but just for illustration if you put £10 on, that means you'll get bugger all back  .

33/1 mate, not a bad price. I don't know if you're a betting man, but just for illustration if you put £10 on, that means you'll get bugger all back  .

7/8 wins in 2015 the signs are ominous.

Rafa's boys third 4 behind Roma and 11 behind Juve. I've said it before, they might just do it.

Don't say it too often, you might start to look mental

How Rafael Benitez's 'rant' didn't cost Liverpool FC the Premier League title


Rafael Benitez wanted to talk about facts – but in the six years since the Spaniard directed that speech at Manchester United and Sir Alex Ferguson, fiction has taken over.

It was pegged as a rant, despite Benitez’s voice retaining similar cadence throughout; it was said to be a pivotal moment in the title race, although 37 games were yet to be played between the two sides.

It has also become known as the moment the championship tilted towards United; the press conference which gave Ferguson fresh life to bring the under-pressure Benitez down; the colossus of Anfield crumbling.

But at that time, Liverpool held a lead of just seven points over United, having played two games more.

When Benitez unfurled his piece of paper, his side’s title bid had started unfurling too - United were seven games into a 14-game run of clean sheets, picking up 17 points from a possible 21, while Liverpool had drawn four of their past seven.

Rafa’s so-called rant was not the reason their title bid fell short, but that is the myth perpetuated.

 
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And now, it’s back. Foreign managers in surprise outbursts are back in vogue, it seems, with Louis van Gaal’s tactical tirade over long balls. No sooner had van Gaal finished waving his demonstrative dossier, and clips of Benitez followed.

Liverpool travelled to Stoke the following weekend and drew 0-0. Granted, Stoke were in a bad run of form, having not won in six games, but Tony Pulis’ Potters would ultimately lose just four home games in their first Premier League season.

Stoke’s previous home game, against Manchester United, had been a tight affair – but the pendulum swung towards United with a late red card for Andy Wilkinson, and an even later winning goal from Carlos Tevez.

When Liverpool came to the Britannia, Stoke were just as resolute, a side with Pulis’ indelible footprint all over them. Steven Gerrard hit the woodwork – twice – but it was not to be for the league leaders.

And yet, this was all because of Benitez’s actions; his words had disrupted the side and sent them into a tailspin. The reality, however, is that Liverpool drew at home with a motivated Everton, and then gave away a soft penalty seven minutes from time away to Wigan.

If Liverpool did throw away the title, they did so with home draws against Stoke, Fulham and West Ham. They did so by selling Robbie Keane, an undoubted flop after moving that summer, but still an option worth having on the bench.

But Liverpool didn’t throw it away. They would win 10 of their last 11 games, including a 4-1 victory at Old Trafford.

They simply fell short to a very good United side, one with a front three of Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney and Tevez; a United side who, on two consecutive weeks, relied on a late Federico Macheda goal to turn two points into six.

This was a United side who would reach the Champions League final, and were widely tipped for the quadruple, and one who managed to keep 14 consecutive clean sheets in the league, Edwin van der Saar unbeatable for hours and hours.

Liverpool were a fine team and should consider themselves unfortunate not to win the title. Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres, imperious throughout the season, started just 14 games between them. They lost just two games, but drew too many. Their reserves to call upon consisted of David N'Gog and Nabil El Zhar.

The stars just did not want to align for the Reds or Benitez.

None of that changed with a pre-prepared ‘rant’ – and no amount of revisionism should argue otherwise. Fact.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/how-rafael-benitezs-rant-didnt-8628277

I don't think Benitez's "rant" cost us the title, but it was extremely ill advised in its timing. The time for a "rant" is when you can gain something out of it. For instance as of now if I were Pelligrini I'd be having a "rant" about how Chelsea players and their bench put referees under huge pressure every game. I'd be saying it's the Mourinho of old, using every trick in the book in order to gain an advantage. Why now? Well Man City have no chance of the league unless Chelsea blow it, and a wee spanner in the works might just be enough to make them splutter a bit.

What you don't do though is get involved when you're in the box seat. This was the big error in Benitez and his "fachts", an error which was compounded by us getting a poor result in the next game. It gave oxygen to Man Utd as they had the feeling we were rattled, put doubts in ours as we got side-tracked into a pointless discussion.

You've got to choose your moment, even if you're right (which Benitez was on this occasion). If you don't choose your moment, you leave open the possibility that you'll do more harm than good, which clearly happened in this case.

I don't think Benitez's "rant" cost us the title, but it was extremely ill advised in its timing. The time for a "rant" is when you can gain something out of it. For instance as of now if I were Pelligrini I'd be having a "rant" about how Chelsea players and their bench put referees under huge pressure every game. I'd be saying it's the Mourinho of old, using every trick in the book in order to gain an advantage. Why now? Well Man City have no chance of the league unless Chelsea blow it, and a wee spanner in the works might just be enough to make them splutter a bit.

What you don't do though is get involved when you're in the box seat. This was the big error in Benitez and his "fachts", an error which was compounded by us getting a poor result in the next game. It gave oxygen to Man Utd as they had the feeling we were rattled, put doubts in ours as we got side-tracked into a pointless discussion.

You've got to choose your moment, even if you're right (which Benitez was on this occasion). If you don't choose your moment, you leave open the possibility that you'll do more harm than good, which clearly happened in this case.

......and the undisputed all comers rant title goes to - Kevin Keegan.

Only in Media revisionist create-your-own history, history can they create a scenario where a managers interview affects the form of 11 players, and the outcome of a number of 90 minute matches.

Newcastle didnt lose the title cause of Keegans rant and We didnt loose the title cause of a interview. United won 12 matches in a row or something ridiculous like that. Those are the facts

'Rafa's Rant' is just a contrived storyline.

Ladbrokes have shortened the odds to 6/1 on him being Newcastle's next manager.

Can't see it happening myself. Not with that fat c**t as the owner. An owner who doesn't like spending, puts all kinds of obstacles in your way and is seemingly intent on making Rangers his next acquisition.

Rafa didn't stand for similar shenanigans at Inter and despite his "desperation" for a return to the EPL, I can't see him making the same mistake in taking the reins at NUFC. He'd more likely go to that "small club"

Ladbrokes have shortened the odds to 6/1 on him being Newcastle's next manager.

Can't see it happening myself. Not with that fat c**t as the owner. An owner who doesn't like spending, puts all kinds of obstacles in your way and is seemingly intent on making Rangers his next acquisition.

Rafa didn't stand for similar shenanigans at Inter and despite his "desperation" for a return to the EPL, I can't see him making the same mistake in taking the reins at NUFC. He'd more likely go to that "small club"

Just hope that Rafa does not fall into the same trap as Kenny Dalglish and Kevin Keegan did and becomes Newcastle manager. Like  you I feel it would be a backward step for Rafa, he is too good for them.

If Man City had any brains they would hire him.

If Man City had any brains they would hire him.

Dead right. The Sheikh owners there are craving for success in the CL. Their team more or less takes care of itself within the EPL, but decent progress to the advanced stages within the CL requires an astute tactician. For that, Rafa is definitely your man.

Whether or not they'd go for him though is another question. Sadly for Rafa, I'd imagine they'd more likely go for Guardiola or Simeone before contemplating other options.

Dead right. The Sheikh owners there are craving for success in the CL. Their team more or less takes care of itself within the EPL, but decent progress to the advanced stages within the CL requires an astute tactician. For that, Rafa is definitely your man.

Whether or not they'd go for him though is another question. Sadly for Rafa, I'd imagine they'd more likely go for Guardiola or Simeone before contemplating other options.

I agree but is Guardiola going to leave Bayern in the near future? Simeone is doing a virtually unprecendented job. Is he really going to try and top that by taking a safe bet for success like City?

If it's not those two, how far down the list can Rafa be? He even has a house nearby.

If Man City's owners had brains they'd get the best available. That's Simione at Athletico Madrid by miles, a truly staggering job he has done there. To win La Liga with a club other than the big two while both have historically strong teams is an incredible achievement. They had to go to Barcelona and get a result (Messi and all) in the final game of the season in order to win the league, and duly did even after going a goal behind. They won the league and got a standing ovation off the Barca fans, even though they'd just denied them the title.

He's even got them up there this season after losing Diego Costa, Courtois and Phillipe Luis too. Not to mention getting beat in last years Champions League final (by Madrid) after being within ten seconds of winning it, as well as beating Real Madrid (who as we know are quite a good team at the moment) 4-0 in the league a couple of weeks back. This fella is the outstanding manager of the last few seasons, and although Rafa did win the Italian Cup last season, as well as that Doha exhibition match during the Italian Christmas break, his current record doesn't really stand up to that. Mind you, whose does?

That's Simione at Athletico Madrid by miles, a truly staggering job he has done there. To win La Liga with a club other than the big two while both have historically strong teams is an incredible achievement.

Last part of that notwithstanding,
the Rafa of his time, no.

Mick, you forgot to mention the Europa Cup won it in 6 months in charge

 *Rolls eyes*

I would hate to be around you if Rafa was ever re appointed as LFC manager.

Last part of that notwithstanding,
the Rafa of his time, no.

Mick doesn't think Rafa really won la liga twice, madrid weren't strong then nor barca apparently. Simeone didn't beat the barca of 2009-2011. Madrid were focused on the CL last year. Rafa beat a madrid side with Ronaldo Zidane Figo etc.

Mick will never give credit it to him. He will say its because people overrate Rafa, yet mick loves Mourinho and surely that mans achievements can be attributed to factors other than genius. Simeone has done a great job, one thing though. He manages to get a slightly lesser squad to punch above its weight in part due to aggression and desire. I don't know if that will translate to man city's overpaid superstars

Mick doesn't think Rafa really won la liga twice, madrid weren't strong then nor barca apparently. Simeone didn't beat the barca of 2009-2011. Madrid were focused on the CL last year. Rafa beat a madrid side with Ronaldo Zidane Figo etc.

Mick will never give credit it to him. He will say its because people overrate Rafa, yet mick loves Mourinho and surely that mans achievements can be attributed to factors other than genius. Simeone has done a great job, one thing though. He manages to get a slightly lesser squad to punch above its weight in part due to aggression and desire. I don't know if that will translate to man city's overpaid superstars

Good point. Real Madrid are at their peak, but Barcelona had dipped below their Guardiola best.
Changing this year with Messi, Neymar and Suarez hitting form.

Mick doesn't think Rafa really won la liga twice, madrid weren't strong then nor barca apparently. Simeone didn't beat the barca of 2009-2011. Madrid were focused on the CL last year. Rafa beat a madrid side with Ronaldo Zidane Figo etc.

Mick will never give credit it to him. He will say its because people overrate Rafa, yet mick loves Mourinho and surely that mans achievements can be attributed to factors other than genius. Simeone has done a great job, one thing though. He manages to get a slightly lesser squad to punch above its weight in part due to aggression and desire. I don't know if that will translate to man city's overpaid superstars

Don't be daft mate nobody is denying Benitez won La Liga twice with Valencia (and the UEFA Cup), it's not an opinion it's a fact. I'm merely trying to introduce a little reality into the discussion, as when people are left to their own devices on our former manager sometimes they can get carried away with themselves and start inventing history. A couple of weeks ago we had Benitez winning three trophies when he was our manager (not the two which he did), and left unchecked people can bury themselves in mouth foam and silliness.

Benitez did an excellent job as Valencia manager*. As I've mentioned before however, in both the previous seasons before he arrived they'd reached the Champions League final under Hector Cuper so they were hardly mugs. In at least one of the seasons they won the title neither Madrid nor Barca made it into the top two (Deportivo La Coruna were second from memory**) so I think it's fair to summise neither were historically at their best. That doesn't matter though, because as I say he did an excellent job*.

The point (if there ever is one) here was when the inference was made that any moneybags club looking for a manager in the close season would be fools not to employ Benitez as he is THE outstanding candidate. It's a matter of opinion obviously, but I think recent history would indicate that there are other alternatives. No doubt the Benitez fan club on here may be correct and he may land another top European job, but then again he may not.

No trophies for the last four seasons at Liverpool leaving us in our lowest finish for years in the league, taking Chelsea from 2nd to third in the league but winning the Europa League (as well as matching his achievement in the World Club Cup with us), followed by two seasons at Napoli where he's taken them 2nd to 3rd in the league but won the Italian Cup last season (with obviously the cup competitions this season still to play for), with their people making it clear they will be looking for a new manager next season. It's not a terrible record by any means (and there is certainly kudos in his achievements with us and Valencia a decade or so ago), but the best there is available? We'll see.

A couple of other points. If he ever were appointed our manager again (and if we completely stupidly were to sack our current manager I hope it DOES happen) I'd provide far better backing for HIM than many of our fans do our current manager.

The asterisks:

*I said it twice. Please re-read these sentences again and again if you're a mouth-foamer.

**I mean it when I say "from memory". I must have had this discussion 50 times.

Don't be daft mate nobody is denying Benitez won La Liga twice with Valencia (and the UEFA Cup), it's not an opinion it's a fact. I'm merely trying to introduce a little reality into the discussion, as when people are left to their own devices on our former manager sometimes they can get carried away with themselves and start inventing history. A couple of weeks ago we had Benitez winning three trophies when he was our manager (not the two which he did), and left unchecked people can bury themselves in mouth foam and silliness.

Benitez did an excellent job as Valencia manager*. As I've mentioned before however, in both the previous seasons before he arrived they'd reached the Champions League final under Hector Cuper so they were hardly mugs. In at least one of the seasons they won the title neither Madrid nor Barca made it into the top two (Deportivo La Coruna were second from memory**) so I think it's fair to summise neither were historically at their best. That doesn't matter though, because as I say he did an excellent job*.

The point (if there ever is one) here was when the inference was made that any moneybags club looking for a manager in the close season would be fools not to employ Benitez as he is THE outstanding candidate. It's a matter of opinion obviously, but I think recent history would indicate that there are other alternatives. No doubt the Benitez fan club on here may be correct and he may land another top European job, but then again he may not.

No trophies for the last four seasons at Liverpool leaving us in our lowest finish for years in the league, taking Chelsea from 2nd to third in the league but winning the Europa League (as well as matching his achievement in the World Club Cup with us), followed by two seasons at Napoli where he's taken them 2nd to 3rd in the league but won the Italian Cup last season (with obviously the cup competitions this season still to play for), with their people making it clear they will be looking for a new manager next season. It's not a terrible record by any means (and there is certainly kudos in his achievements with us and Valencia a decade or so ago), but the best there is available? We'll see.

A couple of other points. If he ever were appointed our manager again (and if we completely stupidly were to sack our current manager I hope it DOES happen) I'd provide far better backing for HIM than many of our fans do our current manager.

The asterisks:

*I said it twice. Please re-read these sentences again and again if you're a mouth-foamer.

**I mean it when I say "from memory". I must have had this discussion 50 times.

But isn't that the whole point; the fact that Rafa is a manager that's successful in winning leagues and cups even with mediocre players and teams? That he's capable and (here's the key word) proven in making an immediate impact!

The "opinion" that's being inferred to here is that Rafa (bar Guardiola and Ancelotti perhaps) would be the most likeliest manager to succeed short time wise in Citeh's quest for CL glory. 

But isn't that the whole point; the fact that Rafa is a manager that's successful in winning leagues and cups even with mediocre players and teams? That he's capable and (here's the key word) proven in making an immediate impact!

The "opinion" that's being inferred to here is that Rafa (bar Guardiola and Ancelotti perhaps) would be the most likeliest manager to succeed short time wise in Citeh's quest for CL glory.

Disagree, and the reason being after all the interviews with players coaches who have worked under Rafa is that he squeezes the life out of a club. What i mean is if you look at the likes of City Barca, and madrid they first and foremost express themselves on the pitch but also work like trojans for the team. Rafa has always set his teams up to work like trojans first and maybe express themselves if the situation allows. Small difference but its massive to the dressing room, only coach out there who has perfected Rafas method is Maureen as hes a great man manager.

if you look at the likes of City Barca, and madrid

here is your problem.

here is your problem.

Struggling to see the problem....He had more than enough to play the same type of football at Chelsea but didnt and lost the dressing room due to his style and management technique.