Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread

Wonder if 10 years from now everyone will still be arguing over all this crap; one of the biggest strengths and weaknesses of being a supporter of LFC is the past....either by using it inspiration or ever being able to just let it go and move forward.

I swear some spend more time arguing about every little detail of every thing that has ever happened its amazing they can time to support in the now.

People support in the now ?

supports the theory we should not be buying players under a certain age or of a certain value as we already players of the same capability in the Academy.

Here's a few more to show he was doing similar with youth.

Antonio Barragan    Sevilla    £240,000    4 July 2005

Antonio Barragan    Deportivo    £675,000    3 August 2006

Mikel San Jose    Athletic Bilbao    £270,000    28 June 2007

Mikel San Jose    Athletic Bilbao    £2,600,000    19 May 2010

Sebastian Leto    Lanús    £1,800,000    1 July 2007

Sebastian Leto    Panathinaikos    £3,000,000    1 July 2009

Then we have the likes of.

Shelvley
N'gog
Suso
Ayala

Rafa purchases that sold following him leaving for more than we paid.

Now I'm not saying he didn't have any bad transfers but in 6 seasons he spent £229,340,000 and recouped £151,000,000. giving him a net spend of £78,340,000.

That's effectively £13.056m a year net or £6.528m per transfer window.

Figures that unfortunately show you to be talking out of your proverbial rusty hoop.

Missing the point.... Look at all the players we let go for f**k all under Rafa, even those I named (and there were many more) If we had sold for a £1m each there's £11m plus...

£13.056 Less signing on fees and wages

And as for that old chestnut the "Net Spend" He change the whole team we exception of Gerrard and Carragher and after winning the CL year one the FA Cup year two Rafa and Liverpool won F**k all from year three on wards... And where were we in the table when he departed?...

Now I will be amongst the first to say Rafa brought in some great players, but his first thought when it came to a game was how not  to lose it, as opposed to How do i go about winning... The year we finished second with Rafa at the helm, Had it been, Martin O'Neil, Harry Redknapp, even Big Sam, with the players Rafa had we win the Title...You will disagree and laugh at the managers I have named but they would have approached every game trying to win, instead of trying not to lose... Nuff Said sick of talking about Rafa... Feel free to reply, I will read but sorry will not reply

Missing the point.... Look at all the players we let go for f**k all under Rafa, even those I named (and there were many more) If we had sold for a £1m each there's £11m plus...

Not missing the point at all, I answered you in a factual manner, if you want to get Hysterical over allowing players who were at the end of their contracts/twighlight of their career to move on a free (The former, contractual law) then crack on, me I'll just laugh at you for being a Drama Queen.

The reality here is, you said Rafa was terrible at sales, i've shown that to be incorrect.

The reality here is, you said Rafa was terrible at sales, i've shown that to be incorrect.

Throw as many insults as you like, the real reality is you have not shown me to be incorrect at all

You seem to believe you can justify Rafa inept actions in the transfer market by pointing out most of the player were Houllier signing in twilight of career and/or they were sh*t… A £1m for a player is such a minuscule amount and Rafa fail to get even that…. The fact that  Man city was willing to pay £400,000 compensation to Bolton who wanted to sign Didi Hamann and sign for City instead Rafa go rid of him on a free
Pennant sign for Real Zaragoza on a free Stoke sign him for £2.8m another player Rafa let go for free

Dudek    another freebie who when on to play for Real for three years signing a years contract extension

Markus Babble played for two club and another three years after leaving Liverpool

Stephane Henchoz played for three club and another three years after leaving Liverpool 

Vladmir Smicer played for two clubs and for another four years

Igor Biscan played for two more club and another seven years

Zenden yet another who when on to play for two more clubs and three more years

Hyypia two years with Bayern L

He could have tried to sell these players if even for a £1m each or the £400,000 City paid for Didi Hamann but chose not to, judging by Hamann and City, Pennant and Stoke and Dudek and Real

But you have only addressed the Free Transfer in your fail attempts to prove that Rafa was not inept when it came to getting value from his buying and selling of player what about these player I also mentioned

Josemi   £2m plus signing on fee and wages          Swapped
Nunez    £1.5m plus signing on fee and wages        £2m
Garcia    £6m plus signing on fee and wages           £4m
Pellegrino Free plus signing on fee and wages          Free
Morientes £6.3m plus signing on fee and wages       £3m
Paletta      £2m plus signing on fee and wages         Free
Dossena    £7m plus signing on fee and wages         £4.7m
Keane       £19m plus signing on fee and wages        £16m
Riera         £8m plus signing on fee and wages         £4m
R. Babel   £11.5m plus signing on fee and wages      £7m-£8.5m     

And yes all clubs have signing on fees, but as in the case of Nunez if you buy a player for £1.5m and sell him for £2m you can hardly call that making a profit can you…
And again The Suarez, Torres, and Sterling Have nothing to do with Rafa, he merely bought them and was no instrumental in their sales

Didi Hamann

Left on A bosman as his contract expired.

He signed a 2 year deal 2004/2005

Sissoko signed 2005/2006

Didi left 2006/2007 when his contract expired on a Bosman

You can't charge a fee on a Bosman

You getting it yet ?

Dudek    another freebie who when on to play for Real for three years signing a years contract extension

Left on A bosman as his contract expired 01.07.2007

You can't charge a fee on a Bosman

Registering yet ?

Markus Babble played for two club and another three years after leaving Liverpool

Left on A bosman as his contract expired 16.07.2004 summer Rafa took over Houllier never extended his contract.


You can't charge a fee on a Bosman

Sinking in yet ?

Like talking to a F***ing child.

Check your facts before you post, your making a fool of yourself.

Left on A bosman as his contract expired.

He signed a 2 year deal 2004/2005

Sissoko signed 2005/2006

Didi left 2006/2007 when his contract expired on a Bosman

You can't charge a fee on a Bosman

You getting it yet ?

Left on A bosman as his contract expired 01.07.2007

You can't charge a fee on a Bosman

Registering yet ?

Left on A bosman as his contract expired 16.07.2004 summer Rafa took over Houllier never extended his contract.


You can't charge a fee on a Bosman

Sinking in yet ?

Like talking to a f**king child.

Check your facts before you post, your making a fool of yourself.

The facts remain that there was a market for those players and he fail to take advantage of it....

You you are still refusing to address These Players and Rafa's transfer dealings with them....

Josemi   £2m plus signing on fee and wages          Swapped
Nunez    £1.5m plus signing on fee and wages        £2m
Garcia    £6m plus signing on fee and wages           £4m
Pellegrino Free plus signing on fee and wages          Free
Morientes £6.3m plus signing on fee and wages       £3m
Paletta      £2m plus signing on fee and wages         Free
Dossena    £7m plus signing on fee and wages         £4.7m
Keane       £19m plus signing on fee and wages        £16m
Riera         £8m plus signing on fee and wages         £4m
R. Babel   £11.5m plus signing on fee and wages      £7m-£8.5m 

But as you will no doubt throw more insults in hope that you can defect from addressing this I really am do here

  

The facts remain that there was a market for those players and he fail to take advantage of it....

How could he take F***ing advantage of it when their contracts had F***ing expired ?

PLEASE FOR THE F***ing LOVE OF GOD EXPLAIN THIS TO ME?

Josemi   £2m plus signing on fee and wages          Swapped £500k loss when Kronkamp was sold
Nunez    £1.5m plus signing on fee and wages        £2m Profit
Garcia    £6m plus signing on fee and wages           £4m 3 years good service for £2m loss
Pellegrino Free plus signing on fee and wages          Free contract expired 17.06.2005 108 year old or something returned as coach
Morientes £6.3m plus signing on fee and wages       £3m performed poorly
Paletta      £2m plus signing on fee and wages         Free wasnt great
Dossena    £7m plus signing on fee and wages         £4.7m headless chicken
Keane       £19m plus signing on fee and wages        £16m didn't click
Riera         £8m plus signing on fee and wages         £4m assaulted youth player & duly shipped
R. Babel   £11.5m plus signing on fee and wages      £7m-£8.5m headless chicken.

Transfers are a gamble, some work out, some don't.

Fee's received are normally relative to contract length, how a player performs, age.

Rafa could have asked for more for any of the above, doesn't mean we'd have got it.

Bayern signed Gotze for £32m, its said he's available for £15m-£20m, is that Bayern bad at sales or Bayern trying to recoup as much as they can for a player who hasn't worked out with a year remaining on his contract ?

Transfers aren't an exact science.

But Rafa did a lot better than you imply as ive already shown and any one with half a brain can see that.

Just a few to prove you wrong.

Antonio Nunez    Real Madrid    £1,500,000    17 August 2004
Antonio Nunez    Celta Vigo    £2,000,000    29 July 2005

Mark Gonzalez    Albacete    £1,500,000    20 October 2005
Mark Gonzalez    Real Betis    £3,500,000    17 July 2007

Momo Sissoko    Valencia    £5,600,000    14 July 2005
Momo Sissoko    Juventus    £8,200,000    28 January 2008

Craig Bellamy    Blackburn    £6,000,000    1 July 2006
Craig Bellamy    West Ham    £7,500,000    10 July 2007

Peter Crouch    Southampton    £7,000,000    20 July 2005
Peter Crouch    Portsmouth    £11,000,000    11 July 2008

Scott Carson    Leeds    £1,000,000    21 January 2005
Scott Carson    West Brom    £3,250,000    18 July 2008

Yossi Benayoun    West Ham    £5,000,000    12 July 2007
Yossi Benayoun    Chelsea    £6,000,000    2 July 2010

Our top 5 highest transfer fee's received are 4 of Rafa's signings.

Suarez
Torres
Sterling
Alonso
Mascherano

Here's a few more to show he was doing similar with youth.

Antonio Barragan    Sevilla    £240,000    4 July 2005

Antonio Barragan    Deportivo    £675,000    3 August 2006

Mikel San Jose    Athletic Bilbao    £270,000    28 June 2007

Mikel San Jose    Athletic Bilbao    £2,600,000    19 May 2010

Sebastian Leto    Lanús    £1,800,000    1 July 2007

Sebastian Leto    Panathinaikos    £3,000,000    1 July 2009

Then we have the likes of.

Shelvley
N'gog
Suso
Ayala

Rafa purchases that sold following him leaving for more than we paid.

Now I'm not saying he didn't have any bad transfers but in 6 seasons he spent £229,340,000 and recouped £151,000,000. giving him a net spend of £78,340,000.

That's effectively £13.056m a year net or £6.528m per transfer window.

Figures that unfortunately show you to be talking out of your proverbial rusty hoop.

won F**k all from year three on wards... And where were we in the table when he departed?...

Ironic really. We won the CL with arguably one of the worst teams to proceed beyond the group stages. Won the FA Cup with a slightly better team but still one with a lot of weak areas.
Then go to 2008, 2009, we had arguably one of the best and most complete teams in Europe full of top class players, played our best football for a long time and was just our luck that the year we hit a massive points total, lose fewer games than anyone, score more goals than anyone and we still end up coming 2nd with a total that more often than not would win us the league. We were dispatching teams in the Champions League with confidence too. Even though we didn't win anything that year, it has been one of our best seasons in terms of performances and consistency for a long time, we certainly haven't had one since. We went into every game with confidence that we would win and we went on a ridiculous run of games without losing, winning virtually every single one at one point. Even when we had Suarez, I still didn't have that confidence about us because of how weak we were in defence and in goal.

Ironic really.

I'd try talking to The Imposter/fake Donavan Ried, you'll probably get more sense.

Ironic really. We won the CL with arguably one of the worst teams to proceed beyond the group stages. Won the FA Cup with a slightly better team but still one with a lot of weak areas.
Then go to 2008, 2009, we had arguably one of the best and most complete teams in Europe full of top class players, played our best football for a long time and was just our luck that the year we hit a massive points total, lose fewer games than anyone, score more goals than anyone and we still end up coming 2nd with a total that more often than not would win us the league. We were dispatching teams in the Champions League with confidence too. Even though we didn't win anything that year, it has been one of our best seasons in terms of performances and consistency for a long time, we certainly haven't had one since. We went into every game with confidence that we would win and we went on a ridiculous run of games without losing, winning virtually every single one at one point. Even when we had Suarez, I still didn't have that confidence about us because of how weak we were in defence and in goal.

Yes no one can deny he put together a great team by the 08/09 season, just wish that he had been more adventurous in the way he approached games. I always got the feeling that Rafa first thoughts was about winning the CL, and the title was secondary to him and had he approach both with the same vigor we would have been Champions of England once again

just wish that he had been more adventurous in the way he approached games.

No real substance to that IMO and is mentioned far too often. How can you not be adventurous when you are smashing 4 goals past the likes of United and Madrid, 5 past Arsenal etc.
But, if the argument is there then maybe if Rodgers had taken that approach instead of trying to blow every team away we would have ended up getting those 7 points we needed to secure the league title when it was in our own hands... Maybe there is a lot to be said for having a more cautious approach.

I always got the feeling that Rafa first thoughts was about winning the CL, and the title was secondary to him and had he approach both with the same vigor we would have been Champions of England once again

At first I think that maybe have been the case but by 08 we were going for that league title, there was a real determination through the entire team that they would win the league and like I said, had we gotten that points tally in near enough any other season, we would have won the league. We done everything we could and had it not been for that tw*t Macheda, we would have won the league.

had we gotten that points tally in near enough any other season, we would have won the league.

Not really mate

year    pts
2005 - 95
2006 - 91
2007 - 89
2008 - 87
2009 - 90 We got 86 points
2010 - 86 close but no cigar we would have lost on GD.
2011 - 80 The only year we would have won it with 86 points around that time.
2012 - 89
2013 - 89
2014 - 86 again close but no cigar we would have lost on GD (Brendan got 84 points closest we have been)

I've never really subscribed to getting overly excited by the number of points.  It can be 70 for all I care, long as it's 1 more than everyone else that's all that matters.

Every time I look at the recent posts section and I see this thread has been posted in my finger hovers over the link in trepidation and then the masochistic on my left shoulder pushes my finger down.

Same

People will still be doing the Rafa debate when Dirk Kuyt is old and has grey hair (but still going for a run).

People will still be doing the Rafa debate when Dirk Kuyt is old and has grey hair (but still going for a run).

what debate mate the man is a legend .

what debate mate the man is a legend .

End topic, no more needs to be said.

*you're

Reports that  people were queuing to renew their season tickets and the online website crashing.

Looks like they may have higher attendances in the Championship than the premier league!

The Rafa Effect......

https://twitter.com/pjoyceexpress/status/754250152270041088

Two games, two defeats. Poor start.

Another defeat in the next game and doubts will creep in with the fans.

He's brought in a lot of new players, it will probably take some time to make them into a team. Hopefully the Newcastle fans will have a bit of patience as tbh they have no where to go after Rafa... although Mourinho will be looking for a job by Christmas