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      Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread

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      HScRed1
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9959: Sep 25, 2018 08:37:57 pm
      The money back then is vastly different from the money Clubs get in TV rights, So saying Klopp has more more now is in one way correct, But players cost a lot less back then so it evens it out...
      Klopp does not spend money for the sake of spend it...The difference between Klopp and Rafa in that respect is that Klopp tries to buy quality players and if he can not get his target he will sit on the money. Rafa on the other hand will buy players even if they are poor just to spend the money, then moan that he as not been given the money he needs...

      Like it or not the simple fact is Rafa was given the money to buy players but spent it poorly

      What a load of steaming horse manure.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9960: Sep 25, 2018 09:14:34 pm
      The money back then is vastly different from the money Clubs get in TV rights, So saying Klopp has more more now is in one way correct, But players cost a lot less back then so it evens it out...
      Klopp does not spend money for the sake of spend it...The difference between Klopp and Rafa in that respect is that Klopp tries to buy quality players and if he can not get his target he will sit on the money. Rafa on the other hand will buy players even if they are poor just to spend the money, then moan that he as not been given the money he needs...

      Like it or not the simple fact is Rafa was given the money to buy players but spent it poorly

      Sorry but thatā€™s complete bull

      But you can try and back up your statement that he bought players just to spend money by naming the players

      Every single player bought was done to fill a spot in the squad or replace someone - so go ahead and name the players he bought just to spend money
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9961: Sep 25, 2018 09:37:27 pm
      waltonl4
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9962: Sep 25, 2018 10:14:01 pm

      and maybe use your brain just a little bit and take your prejudice out of it and maybe Rafa was just trying to wind up Chelsea and Maureen did you ever consider that.
      Are you sure it wasn't 2007
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9963: Sep 25, 2018 10:29:17 pm
      ;D no it doesnt "even out". Rafa never had the chance to have the most expensive goalkeeper and defender in the world signed on the same year.

      Most expensive does not necessarily mean the best, and as i keep saying, it was about not wasting the money, had he not wasted so much he would have had more to spend and been able to buy player with higher price tags, does not mean that they would have been better just more expensive

      Liverpool's most expensive central defender up until the end of Rafa's years was Martin Skrtel who cost Ā£6.5m in 2008.

      Our rivals at the time had the likes of Rio Ferdinand, signed for Ā£22.5m more (Ā£30m) six years earlier (2002) and Ricardo Carvalho, signed for Ā£13.5m more (Ā£20m), four years earlier (2004).

      I think that had more to do with players wanting to go to Utd than wanting to come to Liverpool, hence we looked for player at the cheaper end who would entertain signing for us

      I believe the Skrtel transfer fee would only go on to be beaten at LFC 5 years later when Rodgers signed Sakho for about Ā£18m in 2013, by which time all of United, Chelsea and Man City would have other more expensive defenders on their squads too.

      So it most definitely does not even out, you have to be deeply invested in revisionist history to seriously believe that.

      Again these club were willing things and willing to pay thier players top money, we only matched that now because we sold  three players that top clubs want for big money and Klopp getting us to two finals in Europe, we are once again look to be on the rise
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9964: Sep 25, 2018 10:35:24 pm
      Buddy i don't know You and i was not a supporter when Rafa was at the club so i honestly don't have any skin in the game.

      Saying it's not personal while posting as much as You do about him fly's in the face of any logic.

      It's definitely personal...why i don't know but it most certainly is.
      When since tell the truth about how things were is personal...?
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9965: Sep 25, 2018 10:39:19 pm
      When since tell the truth about how things were is personal...?

      Bro.. take a break..
      waltonl4
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9966: Sep 25, 2018 10:42:00 pm

      whenever I make a c**t out of myself as I sometimes do I always take a break for a day or two and the good thing about this forum is nobody holds grudges well apart from the bloke from Birkenhead as across the water is properly known
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9967: Sep 25, 2018 11:28:06 pm
      Sorry but thatā€™s complete bull

      But you can try and back up your statement that he bought players just to spend money by naming the players

      Every single player bought was done to fill a spot in the squad or replace someone - so go ahead and name the players he bought just to spend money

      Josemi 04/05 Exchange in 05/06 Kromkamp, Miki Roque, Nunez in 04/05 sold 05/06:
      Barragan 05/06: sold 06/07:  Idriza, Gonzalez, 05/06: sold 07/08:  Martin, Palletta, 06/07: sold 07/08:  El Zhar; Ajdarevic, Padelli, Nemeth, Itandje, Dossena, Aquilani, Brouwer Jose Dominguez; Leto; Sissoko

      On a free Voronin, Degen

      19 players that had no right being near this club and somewhere between Ā£41-42M wasted plus signing on fees and wages

      First season Rafa bough in7 with 4 going out, could of and should of kept Danny Murthy and not have bought Nunez

      05/06 14 players come in and 8 go out amongst them both Baros and Smicer

      06/07: 11 players in 11 out

      07/08: 12 players in 12 including Bellamy who he bought the season before

      08/09: 6 players in 9 players out

      09/10: 5 in 8 out

      With the exception of the last two seasoning in charge Rafa either bought in more player than he sold or as many as he soldā€¦ The last two season I believe the owner told him to sell to buy
      waltonl4
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9968: Sep 25, 2018 11:41:36 pm
      total net spend of Ā£78mil his last two seasons made Ā£2mil profit and this didn't include selling Torres for Ā£50mil.
      2009/10
      2009/10:
      IN: Ā£17.5m Johnson; Ā£17.1m Aquilani; Ā£2m Kyrgiakos; Ā£160,000 Ayala; Ā£1.5m Maxi Rodriguez. Total: Ā£38.26m.
      OUT: Ā£250,000 Anderson; Ā£3m Leto; Ā£3.5m Arbeloa; Ā£30m Alonso; Ā£4.4m Dossena; Ā£1.5m Voronin; Free Pennant, Miki Roque. Total: Ā£42.65m.
      NET SPEND: -Ā£4.39m
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9969: Sep 26, 2018 05:59:18 am
      Josemi 04/05 Exchange in 05/06 Kromkamp, Miki Roque, Nunez in 04/05 sold 05/06:
      Barragan 05/06: sold 06/07:  Idriza, Gonzalez, 05/06: sold 07/08:  Martin, Palletta, 06/07: sold 07/08:  El Zhar; Ajdarevic, Padelli, Nemeth, Itandje, Dossena, Aquilani, Brouwer Jose Dominguez; Leto; Sissoko

      On a free Voronin, Degen

      19 players that had no right being near this club and somewhere between Ā£41-42M wasted plus signing on fees and wages

      First season Rafa bough in7 with 4 going out, could of and should of kept Danny Murthy and not have bought Nunez

      05/06 14 players come in and 8 go out amongst them both Baros and Smicer

      06/07: 11 players in 11 out

      07/08: 12 players in 12 including Bellamy who he bought the season before

      08/09: 6 players in 9 players out

      09/10: 5 in 8 out

      With the exception of the last two seasoning in charge Rafa either bought in more player than he sold or as many as he soldā€¦ The last two season I believe the owner told him to sell to buy

      I think your lack of knowledge about the club is starting to shine through and just using google

      Nunez was part of the Owen deal
      Josemi was someone to beef up the squad
      Kronkamp was a no cost swap and played in the FA Cup winning squad
      Sissoko was superb for us until the eye injury

      A lot of the others are youngsters that every club buys looking to see if they develop

      Rafa at the time was shopping against a team suddenly flooded with money

      Yep Rafa bought some players for the first team that didnā€™t work but he also bought some of the best the club has seen

      90% of the players you highlight all went into the youth teams

      And the last season is when we all realised the club was financially screwed
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9970: Sep 26, 2018 08:47:44 am
      total net spend of Ā£78mil his last two seasons made Ā£2mil profit and this didn't include selling Torres for Ā£50mil.
      2009/10
      2009/10:
      IN: Ā£17.5m Johnson; Ā£17.1m Aquilani; Ā£2m Kyrgiakos; Ā£160,000 Ayala; Ā£1.5m Maxi Rodriguez. Total: Ā£38.26m.
      OUT: Ā£250,000 Anderson; Ā£3m Leto; Ā£3.5m Arbeloa; Ā£30m Alonso; Ā£4.4m Dossena; Ā£1.5m Voronin; Free Pennant, Miki Roque. Total: Ā£42.65m.
      NET SPEND: -Ā£4.39m
      Mate good on him if he had a low net spend, it was either that or give away the players  for nothing, but net spend doesn't really come into it. The point is that they were the player Rafa choose to buy... When we were getting further  and further away from winning thorphies the team being put together way become more Rafa's team... players he had chosen... The reason I bought the money wasted in to it was to show that he could have sat on that money until he found one or two players worth investing that money in, one or two real Quality players
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9971: Sep 26, 2018 08:51:58 am
      I think your lack of knowledge about the club is starting to shine through and just using google
      It has nothing to do with who has greater knowledge about the club. It is about how you view or interpret what actually took place at the club

      Nunez was part of the Owen deal
      Josemi was someone to beef up the squad
      Kronkamp was a no cost swap and played in the FA Cup winning squad
      Sissoko was superb for us until the eye injury

      A lot of the others are youngsters that every club buys looking to see if they develop

      Rafa at the time was shopping against a team suddenly flooded with money

      Yep Rafa bought some players for the first team that didnā€™t work but he also bought some of the best the club has seen

      90% of the players you highlight all went into the youth teams

      And the last season is when we all realised the club was financially screwed


      And tell me how did the players you just need turn out...?? and if so good why were they sold so quickly...??

      Yep Rafa bought some players for the first team that didnā€™t work but he also bought some of the best the club has seen

      It is not just about the player he bought in, it is about the players he sold as well Danny Murphy,Bellamy ,Baros and Smicer.
      And more often than not the players bought in were no better than the ones he sold. Just look at the player turn over during Rafa's time in charge, and i mean players he bought into the club only to be sold a season, or two later, and ys the players I named were predominantly youth players, money wasted when he should have been concentrating that cash on one or two quality players

      I am done here... Said my piece I'll leave you and your love affair with Rafa in peace now
      « Last Edit: Sep 26, 2018 09:14:58 am by The Real Donavan Ried »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9972: Sep 26, 2018 09:12:55 am
      And tell me how did the players  you just need turn out...?? and if so good why were they sold so quickly...??

      Tell me one manager who has managed to buys players and every single one work out - the answer is NONE

      If you are going to judge Rafa on his purchases that didnā€™t work out then at least balance it with the ones that did

      There is zero guarantee when players are bought - some will work out straight away , some will take time and some wonā€™t

      When Rafa arrived our youth set up was poor - there was a lack of real talent looking to get through so he went and got a lot of young talented players with potential to see how they work out - some just donā€™t progress enough for the Prem and find their level elsewhere and then the odd gem finds its way through

      Rafa wasnā€™t ever shopping at the top level - he had to find players on the next rung down because we didnt have the money of teams like Chelsea

      When he bought players we all thought 99% of the time they were good buys and he had a good success rate

      Garcia
      Xabi
      Pepe
      Kuyt
      Agger
      Skrtel
      Lucas
      Crouch
      Masher
      Torres
      Yossi
      Arbeloa
      Sissoko
      Bellamy
      God
      Aurelio
      Maxi
      Johnson

      Even players like Pennant , Keane , Dossena , Babel and Reira had limited success

      But to point fingers at his spending because of the youth players he brought in just shows a lack of understanding of the situation when Rafa was manager.

      His biggest net transfer spend was Ā£40 mil - Chelsea were spending that on one player.

      Rafa worked with very limited amount of disposable income - he was working with budget based on leveraged debt - he had a high turn over because he wasnā€™t working on a budget the likes of Chelsea and Utd had

      And players like Smicer and Baros ?!? Christ they showed before and since they just werenā€™t at the level required - Murphy did ok but again he was just a good mid table player at the end and Bellamy had issues off the field as well as injury problems.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9973: Sep 26, 2018 09:20:02 am
      Tell me one manager who has managed to buys players and every single one work out - the answer is NONE

      If you are going to judge Rafa on his purchases that didnā€™t work out then at least balance it with the ones that did

      There is zero guarantee when players are bought - some will work out straight away , some will take time and some wonā€™t

      When Rafa arrived our youth set up was poor - there was a lack of real talent looking to get through so he went and got a lot of young talented players with potential to see how they work out - some just donā€™t progress enough for the Prem and find their level elsewhere and then the odd gem finds its way through

      Rafa wasnā€™t ever shopping at the top level - he had to find players on the next rung down because we didnt have the money of teams like Chelsea

      When he bought players we all thought 99% of the time they were good buys and he had a good success rate

      Garcia
      Xabi
      Pepe
      Kuyt
      Agger
      Skrtel
      Lucas
      Crouch
      Masher
      Torres
      Yossi
      Arbeloa
      Sissoko
      Bellamy
      God
      Aurelio
      Maxi
      Johnson

      Even players like Pennant , Keane , Dossena , Babel and Reira had limited success

      But to point fingers at his spending because of the youth players he brought in just shows a lack of understanding of the situation when Rafa was manager.

      His biggest net transfer spend was Ā£40 mil - Chelsea were spending that on one player.

      Rafa worked with very limited amount of disposable income - he was working with budget based on leveraged debt - he had a high turn over because he wasnā€™t working on a budget the likes of Chelsea and Utd had

      And players like Smicer and Baros ?!? Christ they showed before and since they just werenā€™t at the level required - Murphy did ok but again he was just a good mid table player at the end and Bellamy had issues off the field as well as injury problems.
      This is my last post on the matter, we keep going over the same ground... I have always maintained Rafa put together some great teams and signed some great players... I have also equally maintained that Rafa wasted a lot of money
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9974: Sep 26, 2018 09:26:08 am
      This is my last post on the matter, we keep going over the same ground... I have always maintained Rafa put together some great teams and signed some great players... I have also equally maintained that Rafa wasted a lot of money

      Sorry but the fact you put the youngsterā€™s into the mix and wasting money just makes your point laughable and also desperate.

      Rafa didnā€™t ā€œwasteā€ money - he bought players that didnā€™t work out - every manager does the same.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9975: Sep 26, 2018 09:37:34 am
      We are never going to get behind the reason people some limited number of people keep on sullying the memory of Rafa and all those wonderful memories.
      He spent less over 6 season than we spent on VVD and that was before we sold Torres for Ā£50mil.
      He is a legend of a manager one of only 3 to lift the great prize in football in the most incredible circumstances.
      Keep on posting your negativity if you like but plenty will attack you for it.
      Dmasta
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9976: Sep 26, 2018 09:53:56 am
      Did I just read someone having a go at Rafa for bringing in Xabi Alonso at the expense of Danny F***ing Murphy?

      F**k me there's some special individuals who frequent this thread.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9977: Sep 26, 2018 12:15:58 pm
      Did I just read someone having a go at Rafa for bringing in Xabi Alonso at the expense of Danny F***ing Murphy?

      F**k me there's some special individuals who frequent this thread.

      Amazing isn't it?
      waltonl4
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9978: Sep 26, 2018 12:21:24 pm
      Did I just read someone having a go at Rafa for bringing in Xabi Alonso at the expense of Danny f**king Murphy?

      F**k me there's some special individuals who frequent this thread.

      I think its further evidence that Aliens are indeed amongst us and try as they might to fit in they post sh*t like that and blow their cover
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9979: Sep 27, 2018 07:41:24 pm
      Quote from The Real Donavan Ried
      This is my last post on the matter, we keep going over the same ground... I have always maintained...

      If you're a Rafasceptic, you're going to have to learn to go over the same ground again and again, in order to survive on this thread. Because the same arguments get thrown back at you all the time, and you then have to go and set the record straight.

      It would be great if that wasn't the case, but he ruled by conflict whether it be players, officials, staff, fans, and even turned the fans against each other in his last season here. He was and still is, a polarising figure, and there was a lot more than 2 dissenters about him back then.

      His mouth has just got him into more trouble though, this time it's a ref on the receiving end and a touchline ban the probable outcome. How long is he coaching in this league? You don't talk about refs, period.

      Quote from waltonl4
      We are never going to get behind the reason people some limited number of people keep on sullying the memory of Rafa and all those wonderful memories.
      He spent less over 6 season than we spent on VVD and that was before we sold Torres for Ā£50mil.

      We spent ā‚¬80 million on VVD, he spent 300 odd million over 6 seasons, which was a lot of money in those days. And yet he still demanded more.

      Quote
      The good thing about this forum is nobody holds grudges well apart from the bloke from Birkenhead as across the water is properly known

      Like I said it's nothing personal. I don't attack you, I don't attack any other fan of the club either, we all have a common goal, to see Liverpool FC be successful. I don't attack him either, I attack his record, because 90% of the time it's crap. He is also a significant reason why we've only won the number of trophies we have won since Cardiff. When someone fails to succeed at this club, they should be held accountable, and he failed here a lot of the time, so he is. Well I will anyway.

      I've been to Liverpool 16 times. But I've never seen Birkenhead. Or Walton. Or Huyton. Or even Aintree. I'm sure they're all nice places with sound people though.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9980: Sep 27, 2018 10:19:31 pm
      and you then have to go and set the record straight.

      I've been to Liverpool 16 times.

      Except you keep getting sh*t wrong!!

      I've been going for 35 years, hence why I will keep arguing with you when you start with your untrue bullshit.

       

      waltonl4
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      Re: Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread
      Reply #9981: Sep 27, 2018 11:15:50 pm
      Let me tell Birkenhead which is "across the water" you wouldn't get away with talking sh*t like this in Walton or Huyton.
      Its is nothing more than attention seeking and winding up fellow forum members knowing full well people will defend him.
      My first game I remember going to was Roger Hunt's testimonial having Charlie George break my heart watching Kevin Keegan play for Scunthorpe and then having to read pile crap from someone who calls himself a supporter . That is not I would call him but I reckon most people who do support this club can guess what it would be,


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