Fernandez Suso (Liverpool > AC Milan)

Pacheco was never really given a chance.  Not saying he was going to be the next Messi or anything but each pre-season he came back and did well but then was sent right back out on loan.  Maybe he had an attitude problem or something but there's nothing he did on the pitch to suggest he wasn't up to scratch.

The summer Rodgers came in Pacheco did VERY well in some of the pre-season games.  Ran the show.  Result?  Sent out on loan.

Pacheco may or may not have been good enough.  But he never had a run if games to show his worth, whatever it may have been.

I just don't understand why we buy foreign kids for the youth team, nurture and then discard them without giving them an opportunity.

I never rated Pacheco, but I agree, we never gave him a chance. Same with San Jose, Barragan, Peterson and now, Suso. I suspect Canos and Chirivella will be next.

I just feel we are favouring home grown players more (which I actually agree and want) than looking to give the foreign youth players an opportunity, so why waste money on overseas youngsters? I don't get it.

I just don't understand why we buy foreign kids for the youth team, nurture and then discard them without giving them an opportunity.

I never rated Pacheco, but I agree, we never gave him a chance. Same with San Jose, Barragan, Peterson and now, Suso. I suspect Canos and Chirivella will be next.

I just feel we are favouring home grown players more (which I actually agree and want) than looking to give the foreign youth players an opportunity, so why waste money on overseas youngsters? I don't get it.

We sign them because they have the talent. We then either dont nurture them right (Ive already said how I feel our academy gets high praise for actually producing very little) or when they get here they dont settle or arent able to cope with he different style

Dont be surprised if Suso turns out to be a class act with Milan or when he goes back to one of Spains top clubs.

there's nothing he did on the pitch to suggest he wasn't up to scratch.

I hate to look with hind site and a dusting of facts but he is currently playing in the Spanish second division











Suso always struck me as a lad with talent but the simple facts are that we don't see them day in day out.. The manager here gave the young lads a chance in his first season including Suso and he did ok, not great like but ok.. Some grabbed their chance like Raheem and Flanno, some didn't, some were unfortunate like Kelly with injuries.
We don't see what's happening in training, we don't know if he just isn't up to it, I know we haven't really seen him to judge but the manager has and we have to take that judgement for what it is..
The manager here isn't going to sign worldies as we know so he wants to develop them into that and I know for a fact if he thought Suso could make that step he would be using him.

He hasn't so I'm afraid that's good enough for me for whatever reason.

Talented kids don't always make it.

Time will tell in the future, my bet with him is he has a good career but it won't be here and that's been clear for a while.

There could be contract issues and demands but I think the simple fact that Rodgers has hardly used him as a coach who prides himself on working with kids speaks volumes

We sign them because they have the talent. We then either dont nurture them right (Ive already said how I feel our academy gets high praise for actually producing very little) or when they get here they dont settle or arent able to cope with he different style

Dont be surprised if Suso turns out to be a class act with Milan or when he goes back to one of Spains top clubs.

Or not given an opportunity. Players like Suso & Peterson joined us when they were young, so they had time to acclimatise to our weather, the football (youth & U21/reserves) & culture. Both, especially Suso clearly have the talent as shown in U21 games, on loan or in pre season, then discarded. Would they had had a chance if they were British?

Or not given an opportunity. Players like Suso & Peterson joined us when they were young, so they had time to acclimatise to our weather, the football (youth & U21/reserves) & culture. Both, especially Suso clearly have the talent as shown in U21 games, on loan or in pre season, then discarded. Would they had had a chance if they were British?

Not all British kids get a chance in the first team

Look mate I'm not saying I think he's sh*te, I don't know.. I think he's a talent from what I've seen but what I'm saying is the manager sees him everyday and is obviously not convinced or he would have given him more than the 14 first team games he gave him

Not all British kids get a chance in the first team

Look mate I'm not saying I think he's sh*te, I don't know.. I think he's a talent from what I've seen but what I'm saying is the manager sees him everyday and is obviously not convinced or he would have given him more than the 14 first team games he gave him

I just feel the British kids get more of a chance than the foreign youth we have/had. I am actually for that because we're in an English league and I would prefer us to churn out British/scouse youth, but with the talented overseas youth we have, we should be giving then an opportunity, or should have given them a chance.

As for us not seeing Suso in training, yes, I agree we don't see what goes on in training, but that shouldn't always determine whether you get an opportunity or a first team spot. The only way to truly convince Rodgers is if he gave him a run in the first team, like how he took a chance with Sterling & Flanno.

Looks a talented kid but possibly never showed Brendan enough.

I'll not lose much sleep over it if I'm honest save from we probably should have got more for him.

All the best Suso. Hope you turn out be a world class player as we expected.

Talented kid but always seemed a bit lightweight to me.

Hard to call it a loss when he's contributed so little. Unfulfilled potential perhaps.

I just feel the British kids get more of a chance than the foreign youth we have/had. I am actually for that because we're in an English league and I would prefer us to churn out British/scouse youth, but with the talented overseas youth we have, we should be giving then an opportunity, or should have given them a chance.

As for us not seeing Suso in training, yes, I agree we don't see what goes on in training, but that shouldn't always determine whether you get an opportunity or a first team spot. The only way to truly convince Rodgers is if he gave him a run in the first team, like how he took a chance with Sterling & Flanno.

Suso got games as Sterling and Flanno did though when Brendan came in

It not like he never played him.

Remember him starting the Derby in that run

I like Suso a lot and it's a damn shame if he is indeed leaving -- just rumors at this point, of course -- because he clearly has a lot of talent.

But I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason for why he should start ahead of Coutinho or Lallana or Sterling. Suso doesn't seem to have the high work rate Brendan's system demands. Good player but maybe not the right one for what Brendan wants?

Suso got games as Sterling and Flanno did though when Brendan came in

It not like he never played him.

Remember him starting the Derby in that run

The weird thing was, he got those games when his contract was running out, then he extended and he stopped getting games.

Suso got games as Sterling and Flanno did though when Brendan came in

It not like he never played him.

Remember him starting the Derby in that run

But how many games did he have as a starter in comparison to Flanno or Sterling? Suso did well enough coming off the bench in his break through, and did well in La Liga. Should have been treated the same way as Sterling and Flanno in my opinion.

But I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason for why he should start ahead of Coutinho or Lallana or Sterling. Suso doesn't seem to have the high work rate Brendan's system demands. Good player but maybe not the right one for what Brendan wants?

True to some extent, but with a good season in La Liga and coming back to play well in the little he played in pre season, surely he deserved game time? He didn't even start vs Boro, .  Also, remember, we were absolutely dire in midfield and we lacked creativity and possession play in the team for the majority of the first half of the season?

Anyway, as Scotia said, he won't be a loss as he hasn't contributed to the first team, so I wish him the best of luck and hope he can fulfill his potential elsewhere.

I just feel the British kids get more of a chance than the foreign youth we have/had. I am actually for that because we're in an English league and I would prefer us to churn out British/scouse youth, but with the talented overseas youth we have, we should be giving then an opportunity, or should have given them a chance.

As for us not seeing Suso in training, yes, I agree we don't see what goes on in training, but that shouldn't always determine whether you get an opportunity or a first team spot. The only way to truly convince Rodgers is if he gave him a run in the first team, like how he took a chance with Sterling & Flanno.

Re: training

It is certainly quite telling that in the "meet the players" segments, in every single one I've seen which has had a "who do you think is the laziest player in training" question (about 3 have had the question), all the players have answered that Suso is.

Re: training

It is certainly quite telling that in the "meet the players" segments, in every single one I've seen which has had a "who do you think is the laziest player in training" question (about 3 have had the question), all the players have answered that Suso is.

I still believe training shouldn't reflect so much on whether you get an opportunity or not. It's what you do on the pitch that matters. I would rather have a lazy Sturridge in training on the pitch than a hard working Borini, Lambert or Balo in training playing for the first team.

As long as a player is fit, knows what's needed of him and shows desire and determination on the pitch, that's all that matters.

But how many games did he have as a starter in comparison to Flanno or Sterling? Suso did well enough coming off the bench in his break through, and did well in La Liga. Should have been treated the same way as Sterling and Flanno in my opinion.

I can't recall mate.

My point though being Brendan is the gaffer, he's seen him for a fairly long time, has seen him in the first team and is willing to let him go

He simply doesn't rate him, our opinions don't really matter at times, yes we can judge players that we see and have opinions, on ones we don't I'm happy to let the manager have his reasons he must have for not keeping him

I can't recall mate.

My point though being Brendan is the gaffer, he's seen him for a fairly long time, has seen him in the first team and is willing to let him go

He simply doesn't rate him, our opinions don't really matter at times, yes we can judge players that we see and have opinions, on ones we don't I'm happy to let the manager have his reasons he must have for not keeping him

I agree with this and only wished we'd have given him more of a chance, same with Peterson. Anyway, I shall leave it at this, been in this thread for too long and I'm sounding like a broken record

I still believe training shouldn't reflect so much on whether you get an opportunity or not.

Sorry but I had to comment on this bit. I can't even believe I've read this. I've played organized sports for a long time (better part of 25 years) and I've coached for the last 7 or 8 and I can tell you that not only as a player but as a coach, what you do in practice has an immediate and DIRECT impact on whether you get a chance in a game. If Suso is lazy in training, why on Earth would Brendan think he would just "turn it on" in the game?

The greatest athlete of all time (Michael Jordan) took practice as or more seriously than game situations...and it showed in his gameday performance.

If I have a kid that's dogging it in practice...he's not going to get to play.

I still believe training shouldn't reflect so much on whether you get an opportunity or not. It's what you do on the pitch that matters. I would rather have a lazy Sturridge in training on the pitch than a hard working Borini, Lambert or Balo in training playing for the first team.

As long as a player is fit, knows what's needed of him and shows desire and determination on the pitch, that's all that matters.

Of course training matters mate especially if you're not a regular, it's the main place you get to stake a claim.  If you're trying to instill some new tactics during training and fringe players aren't taking it seriously why should they get a chance, he should be busting a gut to get in the team, then busting another when/if he gets a chance.  From the comments off his team mates, Suso doesn't.

Suso is what is known around the Academy as a "gold standard player" in that he has all the talent in the world but he's never had to fight to stake a claim as he's always been so good.  From a very young age he's always been selected and never had to work too hard to keep his place so never learnt how to be competetive or why he needed to be. 

Most coaches prefer the "silver standard players", they're not always the most prodigious talents but they work damned hard at all times as they know if they slip up somebody else will take their place.  Carra was like this all through his playing career, Flanno is another. 

Sorry but I had to comment on this bit. I can't even believe I've read this. I've played organized sports for a long time (better part of 25 years) and I've coached for the last 7 or 8 and I can tell you that not only as a player but as a coach, what you do in practice has an immediate and DIRECT impact on whether you get a chance in a game. If Suso is lazy in training, why on Earth would Brendan think he would just "turn it on" in the game?

The greatest athlete of all time (Michael Jordan) took practice as or more seriously than game situations...and it showed in his gameday performance.

If I have a kid that's dogging it in practice...he's not going to get to play.

Depends on your definition on lazy training. If a player doesn't do the tasks asked in training, fair enough, doesn't deserve to play, however, if he applies, listens and show enough, I think that player should be given an opportunity.

I too have played in organized sports, from semi professional rugby and to this day, football for 20 years and counting. I trained harder than 2 of my friends (who turned professional) and on the training field, I was far better than them, yet, come match day, they would score for fun and I would struggle and end up getting subbed for the majority of games.

Like I said, I feel the training aspect shouldn't be determined on how hard you train, but whether you apply yourself to the tasks asked and show enough promise.

Of course training matters mate especially if you're not a regular, it's the main place you get to stake a claim.  If you're trying to instill some new tactics during training and fringe players aren't taking it seriously why should they get a chance, he should be busting a gut to get in the team, then busting another when/if he gets a chance.  From the comments off his team mates, Suso doesn't.

Most coaches prefer the "silver standard players", they're not always the most prodigious talents but they work damned hard at all times as they know if they slip up somebody else will take their place.  Carra was like this all through his playing career, Flanno is another.

I agree, training does matter as it allows you to understand the game more and know what's needed of you, but there's too much emphasis in having to apply yourself in terms of desire and determination in training in this country. Personally, I don't think that should be the main focus and it seems like most coaches here believe that should be the case which I would have to disagree.

Brendan as manager though has the benefit of knowing his personality, seeing him train every day and watching him play, both here, in the 21s and I'm sure DVDs of every game he had on loan


Hard for any of us to really judge when we haven't seen more than snippets of him

I agree, training does matter as it allows you to understand the game more and know what's needed of you, but there's too much emphasis in having to apply yourself in terms of desire and determination in training in this country. Personally, I don't think that should be the main focus and it seems like most coaches here believe that should be the case which I would have to disagree.

I don't think it's the main focus once you've proved your worth to the team but as a young player trying to break into the 1st team it's vital mate.  Without that drive and determination you'll never succeed at the highest level, in any walk of life.

Just for an example, Suso was sent out on loan last season to a league that he's familiar with.  He went to a team where there were no expectations of him or the team, no real pressure to perform and where he was probably the most talented player in the squad.  He should have found it easy to dazzle, he should have been orchestrating their midfield, he should have left his mark.  He started very well, he had stats comparable with Messi in the first few months then after Xmas he became a non entity. 

He should have come back here as a superstar, he should have had a similar season to Raheems in terms of showcasing his undoubted talent, if he had we probably wouldn't have needed to buy Lallana or Markovic.  That is why we send young players on loan, to see what they can do, to see how much they push themselves, to see if they've got the determination needed to become the very best they can and to see if they can be of use to us.