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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. Who would you have as our first choice right back?

      Glen Johnson
      57 (30%)
      Martin Kelly
      133 (70%)

      Total Members Voted: 188

      Johnson or Kelly

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      *LFC 4EVA*
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #506: Apr 11, 2011 10:38:50 pm
      might want to add flanagan to the poll :)

      thought he played really well tonight 
      reddebs
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #507: Apr 11, 2011 11:05:24 pm
      Instead of arguing, shouldn't we all be happy that we have the choice of these two and now also Flannagan.

      How many times in recent years have we had this type of quality in depth, in any position?

      Competition for places is a healthy thing, it raises players games, makes them determined to do better.  For Gods sake people this is what we've been missing for far, far too long!

      Don't knock it  :f_steam:
      little-Luis:)
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #508: Apr 11, 2011 11:12:42 pm
      Instead of arguing, shouldn't we all be happy that we have the choice of these two and now also Flannagan.

      hear hear.
      IrishRed_IO
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      • Formerly InertObject
      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #509: Apr 11, 2011 11:17:21 pm
      paulrobbo
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #510: Apr 11, 2011 11:18:07 pm
      I think over the next three or four seasons we'll see Kelly move into centre back when Carra retires and Flanagan take up the right back spot.
      Tayls
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #511: Apr 11, 2011 11:26:25 pm
      I think over the next three or four seasons we'll see Kelly move into centre back when Carra retires and Flanagan take up the right back spot.

      This is what I think should happen. I know Kelly's said he's happy at RB, but I think he's more of a natural CB with his height and power.

      I'm very impressed with how comfortable the young lads look on the ball. It's great to see defenders moving the ball around well at the back. Having good ball playing defenders gives the whole team a good base to attack from.
      Red5man
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #512: Apr 11, 2011 11:28:55 pm
      This is what I think should happen. I know Kelly's said he's happy at RB, but I think he's more of a natural CB with his height and power.

      I'm very impressed with how comfortable the young lads look on the ball. It's great to see defenders moving the ball around well at the back. Having good ball playing defenders gives the whole team a good base to attack from.

      The way their bring brought up, all of our young lads have great confidence in their ball playing skills.
      racerx34
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #513: Apr 12, 2011 05:16:46 am
      Neither. . . Ok well maybe not, but at least right back is looking solid for the years ahead. So we can all be happy about that ;)
      vitez
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #514: Apr 12, 2011 06:37:41 am
      Fullbacks comparison (Johnson & Kelly) Part II

      The first part of this two part series concentrated on defending and some shooting stats. In this second instalment we’re going to be concentrating on the creative aspects of Glen Johnson and Martin Kelly’s play. We’ll be covering passing, chances created, crossing and successful dribbles. (Click here for Part One: “Glen Johnson and Martin Kelly Full Back Comparison“)

       
      Successful Dribbles

      We’ll start with the successful dribbles from the players. The statistics displayed below are a little misleading as Opta have only provided the successful dribble stats and not total dribbles attempted. Still we’ll be able to see how many times either player has successfully gone past players and made a pass or cross. A successful dribble can also be in any part of the pitch. These are not exclusive to just attacking areas of the pitch. These can also be in defence and central areas of the pitch.

      As shown below Glen Johnson is far superior in this field. At right back he’d managed a total of 23 successful dribbles which is a successful dribble every 55 minutes. He’s done even better at left back though, managing a successful dribble every 48 minutes (19 in total). The ability to cutting in on his right may be helping Glen Johnson here although we’d have expected him to have a few more shots with his right foot from left back (stats displayed in part one).

      Martin Kelly only has five successful dribbles. It may seem as though he’s done many more than this but the stats are based on a dribble that ends up with a successful pass or cross which isn’t always possible. Martin’s definitely done better than the stats suggest which state that he’s made a successful dribble every 172 minutes. Let’s not forget that Martin, first and foremost, is a centre back so expecting him to do really well with these attacking stats is a little unfair. He’s still done brilliantly as a full back regardless of the statistics.


      Comparison of Martin Kelly and Glen Johnson's passing and creativity
      Passing / Crossing

      The pass completion statistic is the headline statistic for many of our readers. Lots of people believe it’s the real barometer of judging how a player has done in the season as it shows whether they’re able to keep the ball or not. It’s definitely a good statistic to have but shouldn’t be used against players. For example Steven Gerrard hasn’t had impressive statistics in some games with his pass completion percentage because he’s always trying to play the difficult pass, which if successful, could unlock a defence so it also has a high chance of being intercepted. Should this be held against a player? I don’t think so. It’s important to add context to each stat.

      The reason we’ve given the explanation above is because Martin Kelly’s pass completion percentage is at 68%. This statistic shouldn’t be taken as a negative. It’s Martin’s first season where he’s had a run with the team and he has impressed everyone. At full back he’s overlapped Dirk Kuyt and got forward at every opportunity to put in plenty of crosses. Out of his 408 passes, 31 were crosses representing around 7.5% of his total passes. Martin averaged a cross, approximately, every 28 minutes. That’s not a bad statistic in comparison to Glen Johnson’s performance at right back.

      Glen Johnson’s pass completion percentage, at right back, was 74% (638 successful passes out of 858). Glen managed 59 crosses out of the 858 passes attempted at right back. The crosses represented 14.5% of Glen’s total passes. England’s right back managed a cross every 21 minutes under Roy Hodgson, which is quite an impressive statistic.
       As a left back, whilst playing under Kenny Dalglish, Glen Johnson’s pass completion percentage has improved to 76% (342 successful passes out of 450 attempted). Only 5% of Glen’s passes were crosses at left back. He has only managed 23 crosses at left back at a rate of one cross per 39 minutes. This is almost a third of the number of crosses managed at right back and almost doubled the length of time per cross delivered.

      The number of passes per game has also decreased, as shown in the stats above, with Glen managing 46 successful passes as a right back and 31 as a left back. We cannot really compare total number of passes (accurate) as Glen has played more as a right back this year, which is why we’ve used the passes per game statistic. Whilst Glen’s defending has improved at left back his attacking play has diminished significantly.

      Now that we’ve covered the total crosses made by either player let’s analyse how successful these crosses were and what percentage of these crosses were met by their colleagues.

      Martin Kelly’s successful crossing stats are pretty impressive as 26% of Martin’s crosses have found a Liverpool player (8 out of 31). However the same cannot be said about Glen’s accuracy from the attacking full back position. As a right back, Glen Johnson managed 8 successful crosses out of 59 (13.6%) which is much lower than Martin Kelly’s performance. At left back only 13% of Glen’s 23 passes found a red shirt. So whilst Glen Johnson’s crossing accuracy has been consistent as a left or right full back, he has been half as accurate as Martin Kelly. As Rafa would say, interesting no?
      Creativity

      At right back, both Glen Johnson and Martin Kelly have created 10 chances each. However Kelly has played over 400 minutes of football less than Glen Johnson. Martin Kelly managed to create a chance every 86 minutes whilst Glen Johnson rate was a chance every 126 minutes making this a very impressive snippet of information for Martin Kelly seeing as though his favoured position is centre back.

      The surprising statistic is that Glen Johnson creativity has been much better at left back. He has created 12 chances with each chance coming, approximately, every 76 minutes which betters his 126 minutes and Martin Kelly’s 86 minutes per created chance, both at right back. It’s interesting that despite passing and crossing the ball less than at right back Glen Johnson has been more creative at left back. Martin Kelly has also been much more creative than Glen Johnson at right back.

      One of the most important stats displayed above is that Martin Kelly has one assist this season, it came at Blackpool for Torres, whilst Glen Johnson has none at all. Pretty disappointing from Glen.
      Summary

      Looking at the stats from both parts of this article it’s safe to say that Martin Kelly has had an impressive eleven appearances for Liverpool (10 if you disregard his six minutes against Aston Villa at Anfield) and has had a very high tackle win percentage as well as impressing with his creativity from the right back role. A successful cross percentage of 26% was double that of the more experienced and English International Glen Johnson. A super effort from Kelly this season but that being said there are a lot of aspects that can be improved. Aerial duel win percentages were pretty low for his height as well as possession 50/50′s. If Martin is to continue at right back he will need to increase the number of shots attempted as he’s only had one on target this season.

      Glen Johnson’s stats are intriguing because he’s improved in creativity on the left whilst his shooting has decreased from this position. We’d expect Glen to cut inside on his right foot and shoot more often as he’s more comfortable on his right foot. The stats do show that his shot accuracy has improved whilst playing on the left even though the frequency and amount of shots decreased. Apart from that there were quite a few statistics which showed that Glen was quite consistent on both sides with tackle win percentages and 50-50 duel wins being in close proximity whilst he improved in the aerial duel statistic. It could be said that his reading of the game is not as good at left back judging by his interception statistics, as stated in part one.

      Overall both players have been pretty impressive in totally different areas since Kenny Dalglish arrived at the club earlier this year.

      A summary of Liverpool FC’s performances depending on where Glen has played at fullback (when played at least 45 mins):

      Glen Johnson at Right Back:
       P14 W4 D3 L7 GF18 GC21 PTS15 1.07 points per game (28.5% clean sheets)

      Glen Johnson at Left Back:
       P10 W6 D2 L2 GF18 GC8  PTS20 2 points per game (40% clean sheets)

      A summary of Liverpool FC’s performances when Martin Kelly has played (when played at least 45 mins):
       P10 W5 D3 L2 GF14 GC9 PTS18 1.8 points per game (50% clean sheets)

      A summary of Liverpool FC’s performances when both have played together (full 90 minutes each):
       P7 W4 D2 L1 GF11 GC5 PTS14 2 points per game (57% clean sheets)

      The improvement in results is there to see when both Kelly and Johnson have played in the same side with 57% of the games having cleansheets. Although we cannot attribute the improvement in results solely to the change in Glen Johnson’s position or the addition of Martin Kelly at right back, what we can say is that these changes combined are ONE of the reasons that improved Liverpool FC considerably when Kenny first came in. Add the improvement in Meireles’ form and the solidity of the Agger/Skrtel central defensive partnership and you’ll have the main reasons why Liverpool improved in January/early February under the stewardship of Kenny Dalglish.

      Coming back to the fullbacks in question, Liverpool FC will miss these two players considerably against Manchester City tomorrow night. Let’s hope they don’t miss them too much and that they can recover from their injuries fast enough to help us in our quest, however slim the chances are, for fifth.

      http://www.anfieldindex.com/fullbacks-comparison-johnson-kelly-part-ii/

      Again the tables are missing, so just click the link if you want to see them.
      fletch_rox
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      • JFT96
      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #515: Apr 12, 2011 08:05:26 am
      Quote
      Glen Johnson at Right Back:
       P14 W4 D3 L7 GF18 GC21 PTS15 1.07 points per game (28.5% clean sheets)

      Glen Johnson at Left Back:
       P10 W6 D2 L2 GF18 GC8  PTS20 2 points per game (40% clean sheets)

      This is a terrible statistic. It just measures the success of LFC under Roy hodgson vs Kenny dalglish. Doesn't prove anything.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #516: Apr 12, 2011 09:19:40 am
      The assist one is so F***ing funny it's unreal. Everyone is banging on about Johnson being great going forward and that being the area Kelly needs to improve on yet Kelly has an assist to his name while Johnson doesn't. Also Kelly has created as many chances, according to this, as Johnson at right back but according to some Johnson is the next Cafu and Kelly is sh*t going forward.
      TKIDLLTK
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #517: Apr 12, 2011 09:39:45 am
      This is a terrible statistic. It just measures the success of LFC under Roy hodgson vs Kenny dalglish. Doesn't prove anything.

      Indeed. Lies, damn lies and statistics :)
      Poko
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #518: Apr 12, 2011 10:07:54 pm
      I would tell Glen that Kelly has the RB position and he could serve as a rotation player or we could sell him. I would have no problems selling him, and using Flanno and Robinson as backups.
      skolRED
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #519: Apr 16, 2011 07:29:36 am
      Only one thing I'm very much worry about Martin Kelly is his injury records. I'd say he seemed a very injury prone player. Hopefully we can manage to improve this for him otherwise this injuries for sure can destroy his footballer career.
      Big Andy
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #520: Apr 17, 2011 08:22:13 am
      Johnson when you want to play attacking and Kelly when defensive or the opposive team is good going wide.
      corballyred
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #521: Apr 17, 2011 12:53:06 pm
      Madness talking of selling Johnson to be honest, a lad who is happy here and has shown a great attitude and is happy to play whether Kenny asks him. I've no doubt if we buy a regular left back Johnson will be our right back next season
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #522: Apr 17, 2011 01:14:02 pm
      No matter where you fall in the Johnson/Kelly, RB is probably the only area of the pitch, currently. we can even have this kind of debate.
      gazza31
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #523: Apr 17, 2011 01:17:30 pm
      No matter where you fall in the Johnson/Kelly, RB is probably the only area of the pitch, currently. we can even have this kind of debate.

      Apart from Subs :P

      Glad 70% on here are showing faith in the young Kelly, it must be a very exciting time to be playing in the youth and ressies with the manager and his assistant turning up to watch most games.
      predSJUUUUK
      • Forum David Johnson
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #524: Apr 17, 2011 01:25:44 pm
      Easy way to solve this debate, Johnson RM Kelly RB.
      zaroni
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #525: Apr 17, 2011 01:32:18 pm
      why should martin kelly start  so that glen will be on the bench
      because glen is more confident on the ball because
      he is more  experienced than martin
      zaroni
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #526: Apr 17, 2011 01:33:53 pm
      glen is more attacking than martin
      becase glen overlaps and recovers very well
      than kelly
      Don77
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #527: Apr 17, 2011 07:28:11 pm
      With the emergence of flanno...kelly will have to work to get his place back. And with Robinson coming through on the other side its just great times at the moment. And kenny is the man to instill confidence and belief in these lads and take them to the next level !!
      gazza31
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      Re: Johnson or Kelly
      Reply #528: Apr 17, 2011 07:30:17 pm
      With the emergence of flanno...kelly will have to work to get his place back. And with Robinson coming through on the other side its just great times at the moment. And kenny is the man to instill confidence and belief in these lads and take them to the next level !!

      Agree with this 100%

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