NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

Any owner of any club/franchise/business wants to make money. They'd be sh*t businessmen and they'd be broke if they didn't.

I think we've got it good regarding the stadium, too. No interest payments on a loan is a bloody significant thing. When you look at Arsenal building the Emirates, it took a couple of seasons before they were profiting on it due to interest payments and it would've been longer if they didn't sell the naming rights to the Emirates.

Regardless of that, if they were in it for money - purely and simply, just money - they're beyond stupid because clubs don't make as much as you'd think they do. ROI's on their investment can be much higher in other fields, or it can be safer in another field. They could put hundreds of millions and still come out with a loss at the end of the day.

The take away from this, at least in my eyes, is we have owners that want to win and have brought in a manager they think can lead us to that. They have put their own money in, looked to build our infrastructure and facilities, spent on the squad and now reneged on a pricing system their fans thought was unfair. Of course, the result of this is not much progress on the pitch (largely thanks to a manager that proved to be largely incompetent and that is a fault of theirs as well as Brendan's and the committee) but i don't think we're that far off right now. All it takes is smarter business in the market and all of a sudden things look much better than right now.

All of what i have said could end up going to shits and we see another 5 years of underachieving but to this stage, i don't think i can fault them too much. And right now the team is in Jürgen Klopp's hands. There's plenty to be positive about in the near future.

Of course. But every action they make has a PR side to it. This being a positive PR move is only beneficial and i think they should be given credit for doing so because they didn't have to.

They could've kept the prices up and people would still pay whatever the price. The reaction would be negative towards them but it would still result in more money in the bank but they overturned.

Note - i still don't think their initial plan to increase the prices was a horrible thing to do. It is almost a guaranteed move from any club that improves their facilities but it was just poor timing given the discussion on ticket prices, as well as the TV deal coming in. Right move at the wrong time. They learned, overturned and the fans are the winners in this.

I look like a massive arse licker but i wouldn't say it if i didn't truly think we are in good hands. Especially being a cynical little sh*t like i am

I still believe we are in safe hands rather than good hands. I don't think we will ever be in danger of going bankrupt, but I don't believe they would/will go the extra mile to bring us success on the pitch.

Some will see the fact that they have changed manager 4 times as chasing success, but for me it is more down to them seeing poor investment and return on players. Obviously Comilli and Kenny were sacked before Suarez became a £75 million sale or maybe they would have judged his reign differently.

Brendan and the TC blew that legacy and for me that is the reason he had to go, not his failure to achieve success. Similarly with Klopp, I think it will be more about transfer values rather than success on the field that will seal his fate.

They have made some good decisions, but until they see success on the field as an essential rather than a peripheral requirement they will never be "good owners." 

 

I don't think so mate. I think Ayre as CEO would have been in charge of ticket prices and it's his fuckup that has meant FSG have had to step in.

At that level of management Gary it is inconceivable that Ayre should take it upon himself to conceive and apply such measures without approval from the powers that be.
In that case FSG had the say so to veto the proposal before any announcement was made.
 
If Ayre has indeed had an attack of amnesia and forgotten who pays him he should be dismissed out of hand, if he doesn't get the bullet the implication is obvious.   

their initial investment of £300mil in now worth between £600-£700million by the time the stadium is complete and with the huge TV deal that will go past a £billion. Someone commented on the Stadium should have been redeveloped 25 years ago when we were actually a successful football team. But we built the Centenary Stand we rebuilt the Kop and the Anfield road end that's three quarters of the ground and we continued to be a successful club until 2007. My problem with FSG is based around two issues 1) what was the motivation for buying the club and 2 they haven't a clue about the running of a football club and this is based on them having had 4 managers in 5 years and a transfer policy which has wasted valuable time and money and no hopers like Balotelli. They got out of jail with Suarez and Sterling but unless we are going to be a selling club this has to stop in order to be successful on the pitch.

At that level of management Gary it is inconceivable that Ayre should take it upon himself to conceive and apply such measures without approval from the powers that be.
In that case FSG had the say so to veto the proposal before any announcement was made.
 
If Ayre has indeed had an attack of amnesia and forgotten who pays him he should be dismissed out of hand, if he doesn't get the bullet the implication is obvious.   

I agree mate, I think Ayre should either go or be moved back to commercial manager. It's one thing ripping off  big business, another ripping off the people who pay his wages.

their initial investment of £300mil in now worth between £600-£700million by the time the stadium is complete and with the huge TV deal that will go past a £billion. Someone commented on the Stadium should have been redeveloped 25 years ago when we were actually a successful football team. But we built the Centenary Stand we rebuilt the Kop and the Anfield road end that's three quarters of the ground and we continued to be a successful club until 2007. My problem with FSG is based around two issues 1) what was the motivation for buying the club and 2 they haven't a clue about the running of a football club and this is based on them having had 4 managers in 5 years and a transfer policy which has wasted valuable time and money and no hopers like Balotelli. They got out of jail with Suarez and Sterling but unless we are going to be a selling club this has to stop in order to be successful on the pitch.

There are better owners Walt, there are worse...but they are not going anywhere anytime soon.

Again this is a pretty reasoned article on the ownership....  https://tomkinstimes.com/2015/07/fsgs-future-with-liverpool-fc/

There are better owners Walt, there are worse...but they are not going anywhere anytime soon.

Again this is a pretty reasoned article on the ownership....  https://tomkinstimes.com/2015/07/fsgs-future-with-liverpool-fc/

The reason for Moore's  leaving was  he could see the like of Abramovich coming in and felt he could not compete with them and that the club needed more investment in the team and he could not afford to do it.
He virtually rebuilt the ground 3 sides of it is reasonably new and on top of that he produced winning teams culminating in a fifth European Cup.
Now we have a similar position with FSG they will not put their own money into developing the team or club stating it will be self financing so how is that any better than the Moore's position other than in 9 years since he left we have had 1 trophy and in the last 5 years we have had 1 Cl campaign if you could actually call it that. What bothers me with FSG is not them as people because I don't know them but they don't really care if we win lose or draw as long as the Stadium is full and the Sponsors still want to be associated with us, the football is secondary to them and I find that unacceptable for this club.  We are in a sort of limbo Jürgen has got a massive job on his hand
 he might just be perfect for the club as it is now but then again he may not we will have to see

Now we have a similar position with FSG they will not put their own money into developing the team or club stating it will be self financing so how is that any better than the Moore's position other than in 9 years since he left

I don't know Walton but there are few solutions

1. (Supporter ownership) This gets bandied around quite a bit, I really don't know how it works to be honest...how do the fan owned clubs pay for competing with the likes of Abramovich and the Sheik?  Do they raise ticket prices on themselves..do they put in they're own money? or do they borrow from the banks?  I honestly don't know how they work; and would it work in a league where it does not exist at any other club?

2. (Change of Owner) This also get's talked about a lot but what kind of owner?  Seems like we need an owner that will put in his own money  and can compete with Abromovich...so what we are talking is a someone similar to him and the Sheik in wealth. The question I have here as people ask for this person to step forward nobody seems too...where are they?...where is this Bill Gate/Sultan of Brunei character and why does he not swoop in and make FSG and offer they can't refuse?

As I said Walton there are better and there are worse...until that Sultan comes walking through the front door of Anfield it might be the case of better the devil you know.

I don't know Walton but there are few solutions

1. (Supporter ownership) This gets bandied around quite a bit, I really don't know how it works to be honest...how do the fan owned clubs pay for competing with the likes of Abramovich and the Sheik?  Do they raise ticket prices on themselves..do they put in they're own money? or do they borrow from the banks?  I honestly don't know how they work; and would it work in a league where it does not exist at any other club?

They elect a Chairman and a committee. The truth is that the only real short term difference would be the ambition of the owners. We would still have to work within the same limitations as FSG choose to do, but with much more interest in the day to day running of the club and with the aim of success on the field being a priority. Certainly 99% of big businesses are owned in a similar fashion, only they are called shareholders not supporters.   

2. (Change of Owner) This also get's talked about a lot but what kind of owner?  Seems like we need an owner that will put in his own money  and can compete with Abromovich...so what we are talking is a someone similar to him and the Sheik in wealth. The question I have here as people ask for this person to step forward nobody seems too...where are they?...where is this Bill Gate/Sultan of Brunei character and why does he not swoop in and make FSG and offer they can't refuse?

Sadly the people who buy football clubs look at the infrastructure rather than at the history of a club. Abromovich was one game away from not buying Chelsea. If Chelsea had lost (ironically to Liverpool) they would not have been in the CL and Abromovich has stated he would not have bought them.

Citeh got their Sheikh because they got an amazing deal on a new stadium and unlike Maine Road it had plenty room for expansion and development.

This is one of the reasons I wanted Liverpool to build a new stadium rather than expand the old one. We could have offered space and room for further development to any prospective buyer rather than "what you see is what you get."

Big money owners aren't worried about the team, that is easily fixed if you are willing to spend, but hassle is something they can afford to avoid and will just look elsewhere.

As I said Walton there are better and there are worse...until that Sultan comes walking through the front door of Anfield it might be the case of better the devil you know.

The truth is we are no better off under FSG than we were under Moores. Moores ran the club as a corner shop, FSG run it as a franchise, but the focus has changed from success on the field generating income, to Commercial success generating income with success taking a back seat. 

We are not looking for another devil we are looking for a guardian Angel with deep pockets and a burning ambition for success.

They elect a Chairman and a committee. The truth is that the only real short term difference would be the ambition of the owners. We would still have to work within the same limitations as FSG choose to do.

Big money owners aren't worried about the team

we are looking for a guardian Angel with deep pockets and a burning ambition for success.

Don't know Gary sounds like unicorn hunting to me.

Don't know Gary sounds like unicorn hunting to me.

It is mate, but so is finding a world class player for £3.50 and a bag of pork scratchings but we live in hope.

It is mate, but so is finding a world class player for £3.50 and a bag of pork scratchings but we live in hope.

Toss in a tin of Fray Bentos and we might get somewhere.

Toss in a tin of Fray Bentos and we might get somewhere.

You must have gone to private school with that pastime 

You must have gone to private school with that pastime 

Yeah, I thought Americans always used pies for those purposes.

Toss in a tin of Fray Bentos and we might get somewhere.

You must have gone to private school with that pastime 

I've no idea why it did but that made me proper giggle. 

Cheers guys I needed to have a really good laugh.

How the F**k does a tin of frey bentos become a pastime at private school?  I can't begin to describe the visuals that sped through my mind 

1. (Supporter ownership) This gets bandied around quite a bit, I really don't know how it works to be honest...how do the fan owned clubs pay for competing with the likes of Abramovich and the Sheik?  Do they raise ticket prices on themselves..do they put in they're own money? or do they borrow from the banks?  I honestly don't know how they work; and would it work in a league where it does not exist at any other club?

I guess like most businesses - we purchase shares in the company to buy out the current owners. Then each year the club makes money they offer us who have shared a dividend. Which we all reject (in theory) and the money remains at the club as a surplus to be used for transfers ect.

In reality a lot more complex than that - but its the crux of it. However, the club has to turn a profit in the first place and the shareholders have to decline the annual pay out. Two things, that I think would be very tough to do in the current climate.

Is it possible yes, will it happen and work - I would say no... Best hope is for either us to start turning a significant profit each year - the Premiership to put in a wage cap (well overdue) or a rich owner to come in.

One thing though, whilst many are applauding Leicesters form (and rightly so) the money men at the top will use this as an excuse to not change the model we have for the better. See, if Leicester can do it against City and Chelsea anyone can - so no wage cap, no FFP and no change for us - the fans...

Then each year the club makes money they offer us who have shared a dividend. Which we all reject (in theory) and the money remains at the club as a surplus to be used for transfers ect.

That is what we are doing now and still £60 million/year in payroll alone behind them not even counting transfer fees.

forgetting how much they bought the club for or how much they will sell it for lets just look at how the club has fared not just under them but under the other muppets.
June will see the 9th full year in "overseas" ownership. The signings made have been woeful for every Suarez or Torres their is a list as long as your arm of complete duds. But we did sell Torres,Suarez and Sterling for a combined fee of approx. £170million. From the famous "spade in the ground" for a New Stadium, 9 years on we are building an "extension" on the main stand and if you don't like heights or you do not enjoy good eyesight it will not be the place for you.
from 1959 to 2010 we had 8 managers since then in just over 5 years we have had 4. Since 2007 we have had one trophy the league Cup in 2012 and enjoyed another Cup final that year but then FSG sacked that manager not even acknowledging him on the day.
What they do in the next 6 or 7 months could make or break this club and unless they listen to Jürgen and back him in the summer and get rid of the dross THEIR committee have bought we are going to be planted mid table for many years to come.

forgetting how much they bought the club for or how much they will sell it for lets just look at how the club has fared not just under them but under the other muppets.
June will see the 9th full year in "overseas" ownership. The signings made have been woeful for every Suarez or Torres their is a list as long as your arm of complete duds. But we did sell Torres,Suarez and Sterling for a combined fee of approx. £170million. From the famous "spade in the ground" for a New Stadium, 9 years on we are building an "extension" on the main stand and if you don't like heights or you do not enjoy good eyesight it will not be the place for you.
from 1959 to 2010 we had 8 managers since then in just over 5 years we have had 4. Since 2007 we have had one trophy the league Cup in 2012 and enjoyed another Cup final that year but then FSG sacked that manager not even acknowledging him on the day.
What they do in the next 6 or 7 months could make or break this club and unless they listen to Jürgen and back him in the summer and get rid of the dross THEIR committee have bought we are going to be planted mid table for many years to come.

Great post Walt, a lot of sense in your reply. They not only need to back Jürgen big time, but let him have full control of who he wants, no more transfer committee deciding who he is allowed to have.
Hopefully then we can take steps back to being a successful club in the the trophy cabinet department and not in saving money.

they are asking £90mil for naming rights wonder how they got that valuation it is certainly not because how the team have performed on their watch is it trading on the history of a club they haven't got a clue about

they are asking £90mil for naming rights wonder how they got that valuation it is certainly not because how the team have performed on their watch is it trading on the history of a club they haven't got a clue about

Would you rather they asked for £9M Walt?

This sounds like a winge about nothing.

Details on the 90m deal.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-set-tie-up-10918771

Apologies if it's already been posted  elsewhere on the forum.

forgetting how much they bought the club for or how much they will sell it for lets just look at how the club has fared not just under them but under the other muppets.
June will see the 9th full year in "overseas" ownership. The signings made have been woeful for every Suarez or Torres their is a list as long as your arm of complete duds. But we did sell Torres,Suarez and Sterling for a combined fee of approx. £170million. From the famous "spade in the ground" for a New Stadium, 9 years on we are building an "extension" on the main stand and if you don't like heights or you do not enjoy good eyesight it will not be the place for you.
from 1959 to 2010 we had 8 managers since then in just over 5 years we have had 4. Since 2007 we have had one trophy the league Cup in 2012 and enjoyed another Cup final that year but then FSG sacked that manager not even acknowledging him on the day.
What they do in the next 6 or 7 months could make or break this club and unless they listen to Jürgen and back him in the summer and get rid of the dross THEIR committee have bought we are going to be planted mid table for many years to come.

Sobering analysis.

forgetting how much they bought the club for or how much they will sell it for lets just look at how the club has fared not just under them but under the other muppets.
June will see the 9th full year in "overseas" ownership. The signings made have been woeful for every Suarez or Torres their is a list as long as your arm of complete duds. But we did sell Torres,Suarez and Sterling for a combined fee of approx. £170million. From the famous "spade in the ground" for a New Stadium, 9 years on we are building an "extension" on the main stand and if you don't like heights or you do not enjoy good eyesight it will not be the place for you.
from 1959 to 2010 we had 8 managers since then in just over 5 years we have had 4. Since 2007 we have had one trophy the league Cup in 2012 and enjoyed another Cup final that year but then FSG sacked that manager not even acknowledging him on the day.
What they do in the next 6 or 7 months could make or break this club and unless they listen to Jürgen and back him in the summer and get rid of the dross THEIR committee have bought we are going to be planted mid table for many years to come.

And, just for funsies, how was the previous 10+ years, without a title, any better? For me it was far worse, as that is when we should have been and could have easily afforded to revamp the clubs infrastructure, that's when we fell behind and that period is why we have been playing at catch up ever since.