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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20792: Sep 01, 2016 05:33:06 pm
      Worse are the comparisons to Hicks and Gillett.

      Much, much worse is the perception other teams and the majority have of LFC being has-beens and a mid-table club thanks to H&G and the arseways about NESV.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20793: Sep 01, 2016 05:34:29 pm
      Yep, managers are damned if they do and damned if they don't at this club.

      'Buck stops with Jürgen' 'It's Jurgens full responsibility' etc - nice to see folk already preparing their scapegoats.

      The way some folk are talking it's as if Jürgen has dismantled a team of potential league champions (ha ha, a long way away from league champions this squad - and that's hardly Jurgens fault) and recklessly left blank spaces in the squad. Always looking for a grievance some folk.

      There's absolutely nothing in the last few years to suggest we would get it right by panic buying - why the f**k should Jürgen panic buy at the whims of couch potatoes who know sweet f**k all? If the right player isn't in the market, then the player isn't on the market. I have my doubts as to what Jürgen can do with the left back situation but whose to say he doesn't have a plan for that position?

      The bottom line is if things don't work out, then it's an indictment on the squad building of the last few years and the club's haphazard approach to it - not specifically the actions of Jürgen or FSG's attitude in the summer, but merely problems that inevitably still linger from the past. That's hardly Jurgens fault considering the short time he's been here. FSG may provide the funds and may very well welcome any strategy Jürgen proposes but it's refreshing to see a manager in charge who is keeping his cool and isn't throwing everything at the squad in the desperate hope it sticks.

      Personally, I think Klopp has made an excellent start by getting rid of fringe players or players he didn't want.
      He still has work to do, as our first team squad is 29 players, and that's pretty big by any standard.

      A "negative" net spend has been used to try and promote a narrative that will no doubt continue, because the same people do the same thing every season on here.

      My understanding is that Klopp works closely with Mike Gordon, who has taken over much of the running of the club while JH concentrates on baseball, and has also increased his stake in FSG.
      He's basically Klopps point of contact and spends a lot of time over here.
      Since he took over negotiations from Ayre, we've seen a huge improvement in how quickly we acquire our targets, which again, is a good thing.

      Klopp will make mistakes, Gordon will make mistakes, but even minor issues get blown out of all proportion on here by some people.

      Our sponsorship has expanded massively, we have a new stand, one of the most sought after managers in world football, and financial stability.

      We don't have great owners, but they are far from the villains some like to cast them as.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20794: Sep 01, 2016 05:36:33 pm
      They invested £244 million when the bought the club after that it has all been loans

      Loans are not investment

      Interest free loans, when that money could have been earning for them?
      That's a loss for them straight off, and has saved the club a shitload of money.
      Also, the new stand has been paid for and will only be repaid (by the club) in the form of equity.

      Investment.
      All of the above, and more besides.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20795: Sep 01, 2016 05:39:35 pm
      They invested £244 million when the bought the club after that it has all been loans

      Loans are not investment

      What is that £244m outlay worth now?
      To make money you've got to spend money.
      The owners seem to have grasped the basics of that adage on a personal level only.
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20796: Sep 01, 2016 05:53:17 pm
      Interest free loans, when that money could have been earning for them?
      That's a loss for them straight off, and has saved the club a shitload of money.
      Also, the new stand has been paid for and will only be repaid (by the club) in the form of equity.

      Investment.
      All of the above, and more besides.

      You know a loan is not an investment.

      The interest rate is is 0.5%. Its hardly sh*t loads of money when they are sitting on a profit of over £500 million 

      You support Liverpool ! How can you defend them making so much money and not investing, Please don't try to claim a loan is an investment, it's not and you know it's not

      They are sitting on at least £500 million profit - How the F**k can you defend them loaning us money ?
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20797: Sep 01, 2016 05:59:19 pm
      You know a loan is not an investment.

      The interest rate is is 0.5%. Its hardly sh*t loads of money when they are sitting on a profit of over £500 million 

      You support Liverpool ! How can you defend them making so much money and not investing, Please don't try to claim a loan is an investment, it's not and you know it's not

      They are sitting on at least £500 million profit - How the F**k can you defend them loaning us money ?

      I know that a loan at the time would have cost anywhere from 5% to 18-20%. (H&G were paying 18% at the time).
      That was the market they entered.
      They saved the club a sh*t ton of money in interest payment alone, and lost money into the bargain.
      £30 million quid a year saved on interest alone.
      That's investment.

      Please show me where this £500 million quid is they're supposedly sitting on.
      No sign of it on the books.
      Where is it?
      Could it be a mere fantasy figure plucked out of the air?
      Why yes by crikey, I think it is.

      Todays Top Tip, a "valuation" is not a profit, and nor is it necessarily accurate. In fact, it's little more than a guess.
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20798: Sep 01, 2016 06:03:44 pm
      What is that £244m outlay worth now?
      To make money you've got to spend money.
      The owners seem to have grasped the basics of that adage on a personal level only.

      At a minimum they have trebled the investment. At a minimum they have made £500 million.

      They might have quintupled their money, meaning they are a billion pounds in profit     
      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20799: Sep 01, 2016 06:07:53 pm
      I know that a loan at the time would have cost anywhere from 5% to 18-20%. (H&G were paying 18% at the time).
      That was the market they entered.
      They saved the club a sh*t ton of money in interest payment alone, and lost money into the bargain.
      £30 million quid a year saved on interest alone.
      That's investment.

      Please show me where this £500 million quid is they're supposedly sitting on.
      No sign of it on the books.
      Where is it?
      Could it be a mere fantasy figure plucked out of the air?
      Why yes by crikey, I think it is.

      Todays Top Tip, a "valuation" is not a profit, and nor is it necessarily accurate. In fact, it's little more than a guess.

      Forbes

      http://www.forbes.com/teams/liverpool/





      TheRedMosquito
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      • Elmore James got nothin' on this baby!
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20800: Sep 01, 2016 06:08:30 pm
      I love these debates because there's wailing and gnashing of teeth that FSG aren't spending and then there's wailing and gnashing of teeth when we drop a combined £55m for Wijnaldum and Mane :laugh:
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20801: Sep 01, 2016 06:09:03 pm
      I'm not saying their the worst owners in the world , as quite clearly there's worse , but this is the bit I don't get , they own us lock stock and barrel , I get that but all I hear is claims that they have invested in the club ,and counter claim they haven't , people throw up the interest free loan , well if I've got it right here and I stand to be corrected,
      They gave themselves an interest free loan to do up something they already own , then get us to pay all that money back interest free of course ,(us as in lfc football club) only now we have added quadruple value to what they already own thus making them a sh*t load of cash if/ when they decide to cash in ,

      I'm not against them making money after all their a business but to dress it up and say they have invested money in us is not quite true , they lent themselves money not us to make even more money on something they already owned .
      Roddenberry
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20802: Sep 01, 2016 06:09:48 pm

      Apart from West Ham, and boy do I have issues with that, which club hasn't? Stupid, petty thing to be annoyed about.

      Quote
      Suarez and Sterling are good examples - £130+m and mediocrity signed as replacement, JW Henry & Co are unwilling to pay for quality to the detriment of the side - check.

      Suarez is irreplaceable, even now, both players pushed for moves, as for the latter, still don't think he'll ever be consistent to be considered great.

      Quote

      Torres, Suarez, Sterling, all replaced with mediocracy or potential. Where did the money saved go?

      Check the books and have a look where the money went. They release them.



      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20803: Sep 01, 2016 06:16:46 pm
      At a minimum they have trebled the investment. At a minimum they have made £500 million.

      They might have quintupled their money, meaning they are a billion pounds in profit     

      My house has tripled in value since my renovation work started 4 years ago, I'm not about to take out the equity & treat myself to a new Porsche & exotic holidays just because of current value,it also can drop in value quickly too...

      If we continue on the path of not qualifying for the elite competition in Europe we may end up being worth a third of current value...

      FSG have given the managers money,it's not FSG fault it's been spent on the wrong type of player...

      Klopp has had a very close look at the squad since his arrival & has moved on the deadwood, Klopp has bought shrewdly with the likes of Karius,Matip,Klavan,Grujic,Mane, these players have not broken the bank but have & will instil a winning mentality...
      mcarz
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20804: Sep 01, 2016 06:28:25 pm
      Regardless of all the above, they're the owners at the moment and all the bandying about of loans, net spend, club value means F**k all and won't till we see where we stand as a club come next summer.

      We win the league this year and pop in the FA Cup just for shits and giggles then the issue becomes moot.

      I'll attempt to climb Everest blind folded and with my arms tied behind my back if that happens! :D
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20805: Sep 01, 2016 06:29:37 pm
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20806: Sep 01, 2016 06:30:49 pm
      Regardless of all the above, they're the owners at the moment and all the bandying about of loans, net spend, club value means F**k all and won't till we see where we stand as a club come next summer.

      We win the league this year and pop in the FA Cup just for shits and giggles then the issue becomes moot.

      Without doubt mate and I for one hope that scenario materialises.
      s@int
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20807: Sep 01, 2016 06:31:04 pm
      FSG have given the managers money,it's not FSG fault it's been spent on the wrong type of player...

      Not sure that's entirely true. The restrictive policies which they have implemented (wages /age/ value for money) have made it more difficult to buy the quality we need, while it is FSG that appointed and sacked the managers, and brought in the transfer committee.

      For example Mane could have been ours at a fraction of the cost but for the computer saying no. http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/657613/Liverpool-Rejected-Transfer-Deal-Sadio-Mane-Red-Bull-Salzburg-Southampton

      All clubs make mistakes in the transfer market...we just seem to be better than most at making them.

      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20808: Sep 01, 2016 06:34:30 pm
      Not sure that's entirely true. The restrictive policies which they have implemented (wages /age/ value for money) have made it more difficult to buy the quality we need, while it is FSG that appointed and sacked the managers, and brought in the transfer committee.

      For example Mane could have been ours at a fraction of the cost but for the computer saying no. http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/657613/Liverpool-Rejected-Transfer-Deal-Sadio-Mane-Red-Bull-Salzburg-Southampton

      All clubs make mistakes in the transfer market...we just seem to be better than most at making them.

      Ian Doyle insists it was BR who rejected Mane.

      Plus I thought that argument about age etc had been put to bed?
      We DO sign players over 24, we DO pay high wages to those that merit it, and surely value for money is a given?
      Or would people rather we spent like drunken sailors in a brothel?
      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20809: Sep 01, 2016 06:34:55 pm
      Not sure that's entirely true. The restrictive policies which they have implemented (wages /age/ value for money) have made it more difficult to buy the quality we need, while it is FSG that appointed and sacked the managers, and brought in the transfer committee.

      For example Mane could have been ours at a fraction of the cost but for the computer saying no. http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/657613/Liverpool-Rejected-Transfer-Deal-Sadio-Mane-Red-Bull-Salzburg-Southampton

      All clubs make mistakes in the transfer market...we just seem to be better than most at making them.



      Was Rodgers who turned down Mane not FSG or the transfer committee..

      According to Kristian Walsh of the Liverpool Echo, the Liverpool transfer committee identified Mane as a transfer target during his Red Bull Salzburg days.

      The Senegal forward had shone during the 2013/14 season, scoring 13 of his side’s 110 goals, in what was a hugely impressive campaign for the Austrian club.

      Although the collective transfer committee at Liverpool felt Mane was the ideal fit for Rodgers’ fluent, attacking side, the Ulsterman himself was not convinced.


      Mane instead moved to Southampton for £12 million in the summer of 2014, where he has enjoyed two excellent seasons.

      Now, two years down the line, Jürgen Klopp is closing in on the signing of a player he has admired since his time at Borussia Dortmund – but at triple the price.

      http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/06/brendan-rodgers-turned-chance-bring-sadio-mane-liverpool/

      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20810: Sep 01, 2016 06:35:06 pm
      Not sure that's entirely true. The restrictive policies which they have implemented (wages /age/ value for money) have made it more difficult to buy the quality we need, while it is FSG that appointed and sacked the managers, and brought in the transfer committee.

      For example Mane could have been ours at a fraction of the cost but for the computer saying no. http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/657613/Liverpool-Rejected-Transfer-Deal-Sadio-Mane-Red-Bull-Salzburg-Southampton

      All clubs make mistakes in the transfer market...we just seem to be better than most at making them.


      Who appointed the serial mistake-makers?

      Eddieo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20811: Sep 01, 2016 06:36:30 pm
      My house has tripled in value since my renovation work started 4 years ago, I'm not about to take out the equity & treat myself to a new Porsche & exotic holidays just because of current value,it also can drop in value quickly too...

      If we continue on the path of not qualifying for the elite competition in Europe we may end up being worth a third of current value...

      FSG have given the managers money,it's not FSG fault it's been spent on the wrong type of player...

      Klopp has had a very close look at the squad since his arrival & has moved on the deadwood, Klopp has bought shrewdly with the likes of Karius,Matip,Klavan,Grujic,Mane, these players have not broken the bank but have & will instil a winning mentality...
      We have only qualified one for the CL in the last six year and our value has tripled

      I'm not taking about the manager, the net spend, players in or players out. I'm taking about the owners and asking if its right that their investment can increase by so much and yet they are not investing.

      You are a Liverpool supporter ! at what point do you think they should use some equity to give the football team a chance of making it to the elite composition ?   
      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20812: Sep 01, 2016 06:38:55 pm
      We have only qualified one for the CL in the last six year and our value has tripled

      I'm not taking about the manager, the net spend, players in or players out. I'm taking about the owners and asking if its right that their investment can increase by so much and yet they are not investing.

      You are a Liverpool supporter ! at what point do you think they should use some equity to give the football team a chance of making it to the elite composition ?   

      When Klopp decides he needs the players to & at present he believes we are equipped in doing so.
      s@int
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20813: Sep 01, 2016 06:41:06 pm
      Was Rodgers who turned down Mane not FSG or the transfer committee..

      According to Kristian Walsh of the Liverpool Echo, the Liverpool transfer committee identified Mane as a transfer target during his Red Bull Salzburg days.

      The Senegal forward had shone during the 2013/14 season, scoring 13 of his side’s 110 goals, in what was a hugely impressive campaign for the Austrian club.

      Although the collective transfer committee at Liverpool felt Mane was the ideal fit for Rodgers’ fluent, attacking side, the Ulsterman himself was not convinced.


      Mane instead moved to Southampton for £12 million in the summer of 2014, where he has enjoyed two excellent seasons.

      Now, two years down the line, Jürgen Klopp is closing in on the signing of a player he has admired since his time at Borussia Dortmund – but at triple the price.

      http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/06/brendan-rodgers-turned-chance-bring-sadio-mane-liverpool/


      Was just an example mate, could have as easily mentioned Markovic, Balotelli, Aspas , Alberto, Ilori etc etc 

      For me their restrictive policies have been as much at fault for our failures as the Managers and transfer committee they appointed.

       
      5timesacharm
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #20814: Sep 01, 2016 06:59:39 pm
      I love these debates because there's wailing and gnashing of teeth that FSG aren't spending and then there's wailing and gnashing of teeth when we drop a combined £55m for Wijnaldum and Mane :laugh:

      It was £55 million gross. We're £17 million in the black this Summer ;)

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