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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21850: Feb 25, 2017 11:13:01 am

      People have woke up mate, in huge numbers, but there are some who believe that because we could have worse owners, we should settle for owners that won't bankrupt us!
      We should have higher expectations for those running the club than just being financially stable.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21851: Feb 25, 2017 11:42:24 am
      Someone tell me who these mythical owners are who just pump hundreds of millions into a club.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21852: Feb 25, 2017 11:47:24 am
      Did wonder when that old nutmeg would appear.
      Yet more distraction.

      If all else fails resort to abuse.

      Blow it out your arse soft lad. You're the joke.
      The topic is JWH&Co if you want to engage just PM me you'll get as good as you give.

      Blow it out of your arse nobhead.

       :lmao:
      Magillionare
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21853: Feb 25, 2017 11:52:29 am
      This seems to be the fall back position for those backing FSG, that The owners of City and Chelsea will get board and leave them with huge debts. What is this based on? Roman has been here for years and really seems to be intent on bringing Chelsea continued success, he has invested his own money to get them to the level they're at today, and now they don't need to get into huge debt to bring in the best players. They dont because of the money they can generate due to the success they've had brought on by Roman putting his money wether his mouth is.
      City owners are doing everything they can to bring about success, not much more can be asked if them, which is more that can be said of our "Safe" owners. No risk, huge financial reward for themselves, no on field success.

      I went out of my way to not mention Roman, he's one of the longest serving owners in the game now and has paid off all of Chelsea's debt, he's the best owner in the game in my opinion. City on the other hand, I'm not so sure about.

      I've said it before, and I know others will disagree. I don't want our owners to throw money at it, I have spend my entire life slagging off City, United and Chelsea for trying to buy the league by throwing money at it, and so have the majority on here I would imagine. That's not what I want from this club. I could not back owners who are a mirror image of all that I hate, FSG are not those people and I for one am pretty happy about that.

      I'm not saying they are perfect, but I'm not getting the hatred. For lack of a better word, they're alright.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21854: Feb 25, 2017 11:57:20 am
      I went out of my way to not mention Roman, he's one of the longest serving owners in the game now and has paid off all of Chelsea's debt, he's the best owner in the game in my opinion. City on the other hand, I'm not so sure about.

      I've said it before, and I know others will disagree. I don't want our owners to throw money at it, I have spend my entire life slagging off City, United and Chelsea for trying to buy the league by throwing money at it, and so have the majority on here I would imagine. That's not what I want from this club. I could not back owners who are a mirror image of all that I hate, FSG are not those people and I for one am pretty happy about that.

      I'm not saying they are perfect, but I'm not getting the hatred. For lack of a better word, they're alright.

      That's you're right mate, we ask have our views on what's best for the club, it's just that yours is wrong 😉
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21855: Feb 25, 2017 11:58:56 am
      I went out of my way to not mention Roman, he's one of the longest serving owners in the game now and has paid off all of Chelsea's debt, he's the best owner in the game in my opinion. City on the other hand, I'm not so sure about.

      I've said it before, and I know others will disagree. I don't want our owners to throw money at it, I have spend my entire life slagging off City, United and Chelsea for trying to buy the league by throwing money at it, and so have the majority on here I would imagine. That's not what I want from this club. I could not back owners who are a mirror image of all that I hate, FSG are not those people and I for one am pretty happy about that.

      I'm not saying they are perfect, but I'm not getting the hatred. For lack of a better word, they're alright.

      The debt's still there, they just owe it to Abramovich instead of a bank.
      Tayls
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21856: Feb 25, 2017 12:02:26 pm
      This seems to be the fall back position for those backing FSG, that The owners of City and Chelsea will get board and leave them with huge debts. What is this based on? Roman has been here for years and really seems to be intent on bringing Chelsea continued success, he has invested his own money to get them to the level they're at today, and now they don't need to get into huge debt to bring in the best players. They dont because of the money they can generate due to the success they've had brought on by Roman putting his money wether his mouth is.
      City owners are doing everything they can to bring about success, not much more can be asked if them, which is more that can be said of our "Safe" owners. No risk, huge financial reward for themselves, no on field success.

      I'd disagree with the bit about Abramovich and Chelsea - the reason they are no longer saddled with debt is because he wrote *some* of it off.

      Why can he write it off? Because he's a fair amount richer than FSG. Unfortunately that is the nub of the issue here. We do not have an owner with the financial power of Abramovich or Mansour. In fact FSG/JWH rank below loads of other Premiership owners in terms of net worth, go check it out. City in particular are an anomaly - they are backed by a near bottomless pit in effect. Buying City and dropping a few hundred million over a couple of transfer windows is like a drop in the ocean to them.

      It's not like they're withholding funds to improve the team on and off the field (stadium expansion, Kirby move). Unfortunately we have to accept mistakes have been made in the transfer market, and fairly costly ones at that. We have however spent, and we've recouped some from sales (I won't go into the fact that net spend is influenced by how well we market the players we don't want. So selling Jordon Ibe and Brad Smith for £21m knocks off that amount in the figures but is that a bad thing? Or does it show we're able to get a good price for players no longer wanted?).

      If you want the kind of investment that Mansour, Abramovich and the likes of Monaco & PSGs owners can provide we need a Chinese billionaire or something. For now I'm content with FSG as they've hired a world class manager and seem to have let him and his team take control and influence our direction on and off the pitch. This summer is a big one in terms of our progression and I expect FSG to back Klopp to get whatever he needs.

      *Edit - wrong bout Roman, he only wrote some of the debt off.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21857: Feb 25, 2017 12:38:28 pm
      If you look at the long term, which I think is important, What happens when City and Chelsea owners f*ck off? Who can afford to keep them running? dangerous game me thinks, be careful what you wish for!

      Given the value of those clubs, if they do sell, it will be to another rich owner, so I think they'll be ok.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21858: Feb 25, 2017 12:42:55 pm
      This seems to be the fall back position for those backing FSG, that The owners of City and Chelsea will get board and leave them with huge debts. What is this based on? Roman has been here for years and really seems to be intent on bringing Chelsea continued success, he has invested his own money to get them to the level they're at today, and now they don't need to get into huge debt to bring in the best players. They dont because of the money they can generate due to the success they've had brought on by Roman putting his money wether his mouth is.
      City owners are doing everything they can to bring about success, not much more can be asked if them, which is more that can be said of our "Safe" owners. No risk, huge financial reward for themselves, no on field success.

      I 100% get that. But on the other hand, why buy a club just to blow your money. I think it's good we have measured owners who know what they are doing with money. That way we won't end up like City and be in the sh*t when their owners get board and leave them with crippling debts
      Sorry Mill'and RED had to ;D, So it is not just my predictive text that put out the wrong words...bored


      You both make valid points...although I am leaning in favour of RED on this one
      « Last Edit: Feb 25, 2017 02:07:46 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21859: Feb 25, 2017 12:53:13 pm
      I'd disagree with the bit about Abramovich and Chelsea - the reason they are no longer saddled with debt is because he wrote *some* of it off.

      Why can he write it off? Because he's a fair amount richer than FSG. Unfortunately that is the nub of the issue here. We do not have an owner with the financial power of Abramovich or Mansour. In fact FSG/JWH rank below loads of other Premiership owners in terms of net worth, go check it out. City in particular are an anomaly - they are backed by a near bottomless pit in effect. Buying City and dropping a few hundred million over a couple of transfer windows is like a drop in the ocean to them.

      It's not like they're withholding funds to improve the team on and off the field (stadium expansion, Kirby move). Unfortunately we have to accept mistakes have been made in the transfer market, and fairly costly ones at that. We have however spent, and we've recouped some from sales (I won't go into the fact that net spend is influenced by how well we market the players we don't want. So selling Jordon Ibe and Brad Smith for £21m knocks off that amount in the figures but is that a bad thing? Or does it show we're able to get a good price for players no longer wanted?).

      If you want the kind of investment that Mansour, Abramovich and the likes of Monaco & PSGs owners can provide we need a Chinese billionaire or something. For now I'm content with FSG as they've hired a world class manager and seem to have let him and his team take control and influence our direction on and off the pitch. This summer is a big one in terms of our progression and I expect FSG to back Klopp to get whatever he needs.

      *Edit - wrong bout Roman, he only wrote some of the debt off.

      The reason Roman wrote of some of the debt, is because he is prepared to put his own money into the club. That's the sign of a man who is committed to his club.

      I would like to see something from our owners that prove to me that everything they do isn't geared to towards the final sale price of the club.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21860: Feb 25, 2017 12:56:31 pm
      Someone tell me who these mythical owners are who just pump hundreds of millions into a club.

      Pumping 100s of millions into the club is not what I'm asking for, of course off the owners wanted to spend their own money up to the level they're allowed I'd be happy with that, as it would show that they're not just here fit the profit.
      Tayls
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21861: Feb 25, 2017 12:59:50 pm
      The reason Roman wrote of some of the debt, is because he is prepared to put his own money into the club. That's the sign of a man who is committed to his club.

      I would like to see something from our owners that prove to me that everything they do isn't geared to towards the final sale price of the club.


      I get what you're saying mate but I think that it's more a sign of a man with more money to spend. FSG just aren't in the same bracket of wealth as Abramovich and Mansour. I understand you feel that redeveloping the stadium and perhaps the new Kirkby project are just ways to increasing the financial worth of the club, but I personally think it would indicate they are investing money in areas that will improve the club off the pitch, whilst giving Klopp full control over the squad and transfers - as they have if you take Klopp's word for it.

      If you want those levels of investment, you'll have to wait for another Sheikh or oil tycoon who wants a new plaything. Until then we still have the capability to spend £20-25m or £35m + on a single player, but we need more Sadio Mane's and less Andy Carroll's, because we don't have the financial capability of Chelsea or Man City, who can afford a few £30m mistakes.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21862: Feb 25, 2017 01:07:36 pm
      I actually don't take Klopp's word for it a he still has to work within the parameters set out by FSG and the transfer committee, Sure he didn't even know how much money he had available!
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21863: Feb 25, 2017 01:20:13 pm
      The debt's still there, they just owe it to Abramovich instead of a bank.

      So Roman owe's money to himself now technically...

      Glad I don't have to deal with a club's finances, no wonder most of them are in debt, entire thing is confusing.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21864: Feb 25, 2017 01:43:38 pm
      The debt's still there, they just owe it to Abramovich instead of a bank.

      So therefore, Chelsea have no debt and are about to win another PL title due to Roman investing money.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21865: Feb 25, 2017 01:46:54 pm
      I 100% get that. But on the other hand, why buy a club just to blow your money. I think it's good we have measured owners who know what they are doing with money. That way we won't end up like City and be in the sh*t when their owners get board and leave them with crippling debts

      The thing is though, their owners aren't getting bored so they're far from being in the sh*t.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21866: Feb 25, 2017 01:49:46 pm
      So Roman owe's money to himself now technically...

      Glad I don't have to deal with a club's finances, no wonder most of them are in debt, entire thing is confusing.

      Technically, yes, although my understanding is that it's a lot more complex than that, involving tax write offs, FFP, Chelsea Village, new stadium etc etc
      So he "lends the club money" then he pays interest to himself on the loan(s), and then writes off a percentage for tax purposes, and compliance.
      He's a bit of a charlatan and a bit of a crook is Roman, considering where his money came from, and it's no coincidence that the biggest clubs use KPMG (including us) who are pretty good at finding loopholes, like our previous profit being offset against future losses.

      I'm pretty sure it would take even a forensic accountant a good deal of time to unravel Abramovich's role and input at Chelsea, and every time he loans them money, he gets richer.
      Sooner or later it'll implode, or one of his many enemies will catch up with him, then chelsea will be deep in the sh*t.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21867: Feb 25, 2017 01:51:37 pm
      So therefore, Chelsea have no debt and are about to win another PL title due to Roman investing money.

      A simplistic view which is actually untrue.
      Just because the Club owes the money to its owner, doesn't mean there is no debt.

      Debt is usually a good thing for any business to have, provided it is structured in the right way.
      Chelsea's debt is not sustainable.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21868: Feb 25, 2017 02:01:00 pm
      A simplistic view which is actually untrue.
      Just because the Club owes the money to its owner, doesn't mean there is no debt.

      Debt is usually a good thing for any business to have, provided it is structured in the right way.
      Chelsea's debt is not sustainable.

      Had Roman came out and said that he wants this money back? Anyway he has taken Chelsea to a level that they are self sustainable and do not need to spend 100s of millions to be competitive now.
      I don't see him leaving him anytime soon, so he could take his money back over time without damaging Chelsea competitiveness, but this is only because he showed the his willingness to get them there.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21869: Feb 25, 2017 02:06:36 pm
      Given the value of those clubs, if they do sell, it will be to another rich owner, so I think they'll be ok.

      Roman Abramovich reportedly paid £60m for Chelsea, invested in players and Stanford bridge and now not only are they leaving us behind on the pitch in regular CL football, Cups and titles, the club is reportedly worth somewhere in the region of £826m should he choose to sell Chelsea, so he as managed his investment very well in my eyes, while FSG continues to try and do it on the cheap... We (LFC) btw are valued in the region of £537m...

      In 2005 when LFC had won the CL we (LFC) were worth  a reported £297m according to Forbes meaning that the Club has increased in value by just under 45% at the same time Chelsea (£408m) has increased in value by just shy of 51%....

      Yes there are other factors, But in short that comes from having a higher profile, CL,Titles,Cup etc... Yes we would like to do things in the old way (Feel that we have earned the Title instead of buying it) But the reality is that this is not the world that we (LFC) now live in, and as long as we have FSG as owners, get use to sporadic successes... We could do a Leicester City...Win the Title one season and be fighting out relegation the next...
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21870: Feb 25, 2017 02:07:11 pm
      Had Roman came out and said that he wants this money back? Anyway he has taken Chelsea to a level that they are self sustainable and do not need to spend 100s of millions to be competitive now.
      I don't see him leaving him anytime soon, so he could take his money back over time without damaging Chelsea competitiveness, but this is only because he showed the his willingness to get them there.

      Tell me in what way they are sustainable?
      Without loans from Abramovich they couldn't buy players, and could only just afford their massive wage bill.

      You DO know he has been investigated several times don't you, by the authorities in Russia?
      If the Kremlin get pissed off enough with him, everything he owns is confiscated, and they're pretty pissed off with him already.

      Might be worth doing some background before declaring all is well in Chav Land.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21871: Feb 25, 2017 02:09:17 pm
      I 100% get that. But on the other hand, why buy a club just to blow your money. I think it's good we have measured owners who know what they are doing with money. That way we won't end up like City and be in the sh*t when their owners get board and leave them with crippling debts

      Why buy a football club and not invest sufficiently for which you could profit even more than what you are already,
      The value of the club has went through the roof without us actually winning anything,
      Imagine therefore the potential profits to be had if and when the titles and tin arrive,
      FSG & Co are said to be astute business men so surely they can see that with a considerable amount of investment in quality individuals and the wages that come with them,  makes sound business sense, no?

      So why don't they???????


      YNWA
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21872: Feb 25, 2017 02:11:22 pm
      Tell me in what way they are sustainable?
      Without loans from Abramovich they couldn't buy players, and could only just afford their massive wage bill.

      You DO know he has been investigated several times don't you, by the authorities in Russia?
      If the Kremlin get pissed off enough with him, everything he owns is confiscated, and they're pretty pissed off with him already.

      Might be worth doing some background before declaring all is well in Chav Land.

      I tell you what you keep an eye on the Russian authorities, while the rest of us watch Chelsea winning trophies!
      They are sustainable because the bring in enough money to cover their outgoings. Simples.

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