NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

West Brom

When we were going for a clean sheet record of some sort

Cheers! Had a feeling it was WBA

West Brom

When we were going for a clean sheet record of some sort

Wasn't it for Reina & the golden glove award or something?.

Wasn't it for Reina & the golden glove award or something?.

That's the one Shabs.

But Carra as a true leader?
Mr "Make a mistake, then shout at someone else to deflect attention"?

Not for me.
I don't, and never did doubt his application and passion, but not a true leader for me.

...so basically money can buy you a leader

I have never ever said it is easy!

And I don't expect them to get every transfer right!

But what I do expect is when it is blindingly obvious that changes are needed something should be done. It's not as if this problem has just happened, you said "Blind men can see we haven't been good defensively for YEARS"

So we aren't talking about one or two transfers windows, we are talking about several.

Years of the same problem

YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!

Well if we're talking years of transfer windows - sorry, YEARS!!!!!!! - then go back through those years and you'll note there's a fair few defensive players in our 'INS'

You get it yet? Just like the unheralded Sami's and co, it's a crapshoot sometimes as to who actually lives up to expectations. Lovren was bought with every hope he'd be that guy. Hasn't turned out that way. Sakho, headcase that ruined his chance to be a legend here. Etc all.

That's the one Shabs.

But Carra as a true leader?
Mr "Make a mistake, then shout at someone else to deflect attention"?

Not for me.
I don't, and never did doubt his application and passion, but not a true leader for me.

Maybe there was a bit of that, but there was a culture of fear (trying to think of a better word) around conceding a sloppy goal that doesn't exist anymore.

Against Watford, Moreno was having a good laugh after we conceded our first goal and he wouldn't be doing that 10 years ago or Carra would have strangled him.

Maybe there was a bit of that, but there was a culture of fear (trying to think of a better word) around conceding a sloppy goal that doesn't exist anymore.

Against Watford, Moreno was having a good laugh after we conceded our first goal and he wouldn't be doing that 10 years ago or Carra would have strangled him.

To be fair, you're talking about a Rafa approach vs a Klopp approach.

We know Rafa liked to micro manage and coach players, and placed more emphasis on defense, whereas Klopp likes his players to express themselves more, and plays a very high attacking line which naturally leaves gaps.

Personally, I think Carra would struggle in a Klopp team, playing a high line.
The only question is, would he be good enough to adapt, bearing in mind his lack of pace.
Yes, we'd probably be better at defending set pieces, but we concede more from the 2nd or even 3rd ball than we do straight from a corner or free kick, so I'm not really sure.

Maybe there was a bit of that, but there was a culture of fear (trying to think of a better word) around conceding a sloppy goal that doesn't exist anymore.

Against Watford, Moreno was having a good laugh after we conceded our first goal and he wouldn't be doing that 10 years ago or Carra would have strangled him.

Carra was no Maldini himself... Contributed to his fair share of mistakes..

The fact that southampton state they had ZERO bids for VVD totally blows that theory out of the water really, basically VVD was NEVER for sale, to us or anybody.

Plus it didn't help us actually getting caught tapping him up, hence why we never bid for him this summer.

Imagine the pure F***ing fume had we got done and banned from making ANY transfers!!

Carra was no Maldini himself... Contributed to his fair share of mistakes..

For a two or three year period he was up there with the best centre-backs in European footy, thanks to Rafa.

For a two or three year period he was up there with the best centre-backs in European footy, thanks to Rafa.

& Hyypia

Well if we're talking years of transfer windows - sorry, YEARS!!!!!!! - then go back through those years and you'll note there's a fair few defensive players in our 'INS'

You get it yet? Just like the unheralded Sami's and co, it's a crapshoot sometimes as to who actually lives up to expectations. Lovren was bought with every hope he'd be that guy. Hasn't turned out that way. Sakho, headcase that ruined his chance to be a legend here. Etc all.

Mate. I honestly think we are agreeing on some things.

No one can complain about buying Lovern. There was a chance he would become a world class defended.but now  I think we both agree he isn't good enough for a team with expectations of winning the Premier League or the Cl

Yet we still continue with him being our second best central defender. We also extended his contract.

Don't you thing he should be gone from here and we should have another central defender in his place?

I find it really difficult to look at some of the players in our defence and believe we shouldn't of replaced them.

Yet we still continue with him being our second best central defender. We also extended his contract.

We also extended Migs contract and he's crap.

The simple fact is that FSG have done more for the club in less than 7 years than Moores did in 16.

The simple fact is that FSG have done more for the club in less than 7 years than Moores did in 16.

Mmm not sure there..
 3 FA cups
3 league cups
1 UEFA cup
1 CL

Plus
2 super cups
2 charity shields
3 FA youth cups

Against
1 league cup

Trophies mean alot to me

Both only spend what the club generates on transfers

I'd say the only thing fsg have done that Moores didn't or couldn't is the rebuild on the  main stand, as a new stadium or upgrade was one of the  main   reasons he sold.

I'm not a hater of fsg personally but I'm not sure they've done much he didn't and we certainly had more days out that ended in shiny things at the end of them 

Mmm not sure there..
 3 FA cups
3 league cups
1 UEFA cup
1 CL

Plus
2 super cups
2 charity shields
3 FA youth cups

Against
1 league cup

Trophies mean alot to me

Both only spend what the club generates on transfers

I'd say the only thing fsg have done that Moores didn't or couldn't is the rebuild on the  main stand, as a new stadium or upgrade was one of the  main   reasons he sold.

I'm not a hater of fsg personally but I'm not sure they've done much he didn't and we certainly had more days out that ended in shiny things at the end of them

Moores left us to stagnate, while he swanned about giving it billy big bollocks, man U, Arsenal, chelsea and city all overtook us under his tenure, which was so disastrous we have only now begun to catch up.
It's a sorry fact of life that the commercial aspects of a club are so important, but Moores (and Parry) completely neglected them, leaving us less money to compete with richer clubs, which were getting richer all the time.
It's also a sad fact of life that money speaks in football these days, and if Moores had been a better owner, we would not be in the position of not only playing catch up, but having to spend years fixing the mess left by his disastrous sale to h&g.

No, we haven't yet won the number of trophies that we did under his tenure, but consider the fact that we are in a far healthier position, with one of the best managers in the world, and they have 8/9 years in hand to match or overtake that trophy haul, after building a healthy sustainable base from which to work.

Moores left us to stagnate, while he swanned about giving it billy big bollocks, man U, Arsenal, chelsea and city all overtook us under his tenure, which was so disastrous we have only now begun to catch up.
It's a sorry fact of life that the commercial aspects of a club are so important, but Moores (and Parry) completely neglected them, leaving us less money to compete with richer clubs, which were getting richer all the time.
It's also a sad fact of life that money speaks in football these days, and if Moores had been a better owner, we would not be in the position of not only playing catch up, but having to spend years fixing the mess left by his disastrous sale to h&g.

No, we haven't yet won the number of trophies that we did under his tenure, but consider the fact that we are in a far healthier position, with one of the best managers in the world, and they have 8/9 years in hand to match or overtake that trophy haul, after building a healthy sustainable base from which to work.

But your statement is right here right now.. and that they have achieved more than he did.. Right now that's not correct I  my opinion.
By achieving things for the club should be success as well as the off field things

Look I hated the H&G era as much as anyone and with hindsite it was a collosal f**k up but I heard an interview with Party not so long ago where he was asked if he regretted it. He said with hindsite of course but you can't answer with hindsite and you can only answer with the information  you had at that time and if you'd make that same choice again with the same evidence and information.

It turned out a crap one but we didn't have multiple offers on  the table, and they were led to believe that the h&g offer was different to what it was.
There was DIC but they faffed around and again with hindsite they went  bust a year after

If anything Moore's was slow to react to the changing of football, it caught most out apart from Utd but they were coming from a low base at that point and had to do something different and drastic, they were also lucky at where old Trafford is that they had space to build around them unlike we do so they could massively increase stadium capacity without the stumbling blocks we have/had. They also won the league at the absolute perfect time
Chelsea and city can't be used as a measuring stick because they have been falsely blown up by oil money, it wasn't a natural progression like Utd did and as much as I dislike them as rivals you have to top your hat at the way they organically grew.

Money is in the game  now, but you dont have to work that hard to receive it.

Fsg have stabilised us and fair play to them for that but I wouldn't personally say that their tenure has been a success because ultimately I will judge that by the  trophy cabinet and that has been truly lacking.

They have learnt on the  job and I personally think if they had a better idea of the game when they took over rather than saw it as a great business opportunity that they couldn't let pass by then we would maybe have been where we are now quicker and possibly have had more shiny things to feel proud of. As much as money rules the game I can't get as excited about a western union sponsorship as I do even in the league cup win they had.
You mention Klopp, yes he is a world class manager and I'm so pleased he's here but they've had the same amount of managers as Moore's did in his tenure... again that's not the stability I expect from my club and if they had more of an idea of the game then maybe the stability would be there which in my opinion goes hand in hand with the success. Not only managers but the off field churn like Comolli etc that just leads to different ideas and starting again and again and again every couple of years which won't lead to success.

Personally im very much middle of the road with the owners, the best owners you dont really care about because they do their stuff I  the back ground, they've made mistakes as did Moore's, and they've do e great things, as did Moore's.
But so say they have achieved more than him? I can't agree sorry

But your statement is right here right now.. and that they have achieved more than he did.. Right now that's not correct I  my opinion.
By achieving things for the club should be success as well as the off field things

Look I hated the H&G era as much as anyone and with hindsite it was a collosal f**k up but I heard an interview with Party not so long ago where he was asked if he regretted it. He said with hindsite of course but you can't answer with hindsite and you can only answer with the information  you had at that time and if you'd make that same choice again with the same evidence and information.

It turned out a crap one but we didn't have multiple offers on  the table, and they were led to believe that the h&g offer was different to what it was.
There was DIC but they faffed around and again with hindsite they went  busy a year after

If anything Moore's was slow to react to the changing of football, it caught most out apart from Utd but they were coming from a low base at that point and had to do something different and drastic, they were also lucky at where old Trafford is that they had space to build around them unlike we do so they could massively increase stadium capacity without the stumbling blocks we have/had.
Chelsea and city can't be used as a measuring stick because they have been falsely blown up by oil money, it wasn't a natural progression like Utd did and as much as I dislike them as rivals you have to top your hat at the way they organically grew.

Money is in the game  now, but you dont have to work that hard to receive it.

Fsg have stabilised us and fair play to them for that but I wouldn't personally say that their tenure has been a success because ultimately I will judge that by the  trophy cabinet and that has been truly lacking.

They have learnt on the  job and I personally think if they had a better idea of the game when they took over rather than saw it as a great business opportunity that they couldn't let pass by then we would maybe have been where we are now quicker and possibly have had more shiny things to feel proud of. As much as money rules the game I can't get as excited about a western union sponsorship as I do even in the league cup win they had.
You mention Klopp, yes he is a world class manager and I'm so pleased he's here but they've had the same amount of managers as Moore's did in his tenure... again that's not the stability I expect from my club and if they had more of an idea of the game then maybe the stability would be there which in my opinion goes hand in hand with the success. Not only managers but the off field churn like Comolli etc that just leads to different ideas and starting again and again and again every couple of years which won't lead to success.

Personally im very much middle of the road with the owners, the best owners you dont really care about because they do their stuff I  the back ground, they've made mistakes as did Moore's, and they've do e great things, as did Moore's.
But so say they have achieved more than him? I can't agree sorry

Middle of the road here as well, but on here that's seen as an extreme view and people get labelled "apologists" by the sh*t stirrers, and also those that hate FSG, or just those who know that posting something slagging the owners will give them a few pluses.

Moores own words were that he "looked him in the eye and made him promise not to put debt on the club".
Now, I've spoken before about FSG's somewhat naive statements, but the above takes the biscuit, and H&G must have been pissing themselves laughing behind Moores back.
Regardless of that, and the alleged rescue from administration, the club is in a far healthier position than it has ever been, and we have a base on which to build, both on and off the pitch.

The owners wanted Klopp from the start.
They listened to the fans when they wanted hodgson gone, they listened when we wanted KK brought in, but then they committed the apparently unforgivable sin of sacking him (after he gave them an ultimatum, and had failed to hit his targets).
BR was a poor mans Klopp, and I think a few people said that at the time.
Still they got their man in the end, and have backed him.
One of the reasons why we have failed to achieve has been the lack of continuity in management.
You know how it goes; new manager comes in, wants to "make his mark", gets rid of a load of players and buys new ones, meaning low net spend, and another lack of continuity, this time amongst the players.
If they'd got Klopp when they first came, I have little doubt we'd have celebrated a few trophies by now.

I'm not "excited" by new sponsorship deals, and if truth be told, I'd rather not go down the road of players looking like F1 drivers.
I can see the benefit of them though, and I take the off field and commercial activity as part of the whole, acknowledging that we need it in order to achieve on the field.
The problem has been translating that off field and commercial activity into on field success, and now that we have a manager with vision, I'm confident that will happen.

Be interesting to see what their stance is regarding the Red Sox cheating at baseball in contrast to how they've dealt with our transgressions in the past.

Be interesting to see what their stance is regarding the Red Sox cheating at baseball in contrast to how they've dealt with our transgressions in the past.

Who gives a F**k, it's only f***in rounders with a harder ball, a kids game made complicated by dumbass dimwits who bring in technology to cheat their way through the monotony, how f***in sad is that?

CATCH IT   !!

Be interesting to see what their stance is regarding the Red Sox cheating at baseball in contrast to how they've dealt with our transgressions in the past.

Should have given VVD an Apple watch to tap him up

Boston Red Sox 'used Apple Watch to cheat' against Yankees


It is claimed someone watching video of the catcher's signals used the device to quickly pass them on to the dug-out.

An Apple Watch has allegedly been used to gain the upper hand in a baseball game between two of the sport's biggest teams.


It is claimed the device was used by the Boston Red Sox to let a batter know what sort of ball to expect from a pitcher.

During a game the catcher will typically hold up a number of fingers to tell the pitcher what sort of ball to deliver.

Because the batter is in front of the catcher, he cannot see the signals.

A certain velocity or trajectory may be chosen.

The signals, known as signs, are sometimes 'stolen' by a member of the batting team who sees them and quickly manages to relay them to the batter.

This is within the rules, but using technology is not.


Image:
Mookie Betts and Starlin Castro (left) during a game on 31 August
An investigation by Major League Baseball found the Red Sox had received information from someone watching video of the catcher, the New York Times reported.

That person would then get in touch with the trainers in the dug-out via an Apple Watch, and they would somehow pass the message on to players on the field.

An investigation began after the New York Yankees complained about the conduct of the Red Sox during a three-game series in Boston last month, the newspaper said.

Yankees' general manager, Brian Cashman, filed a detailed complaint with the Commissioner of Baseball's office, it added.

In the American League East, the Red Sox are in first place, the Yankees in second.

The Red Sox have apparently filed a complaint against the Yankees, alleging they use a camera from their YES television network to steal signs during games.

It is something the Yankees have denied.

Posted in: UNITED STATES

http://news.sky.com/story/boston-red-sox-used-apple-watch-to-cheat-against-yankees-11022911

Be interesting to see what their stance is regarding the Red Sox cheating at baseball in contrast to how they've dealt with our transgressions in the past.

I say this as a Yankees fan -  they've bent the rules, not cheated in the worst possible way, IMO. You're allowed to steal signs, what you're not allowed to do is use technology to transmit the signs you've stolen faster than what the human element allows. Yes, it is cheating in a sense, and I do agree they should be punished for it. But just wanted to give context to the discussion, so that it's not just OMG THEY'RE CHEATERS THE SOULLESS bas**rds. 21st Century tech in an old mans game is an interesting quagmire that the sport has to deal with. I'm sure they knew it was wrong, but it is by no means the worst transgression you could do in baseball, for mine. For those that might read the above statement without any knowledge of baseball and think the worlds falling apart, don't.

I think the most interesting thing is they've thrown an accusation straight back at the Yankees. Slightly off topic to say this but, rivalry baby. I hope this means it's back, as dirty and fu**ed up as it ever was

Who gives a f**k, it's only f***in rounders with a harder ball, a kids game made complicated by dumbass dimwits who bring in technology to cheat their way through the monotony, how f***in sad is that?

CATCH IT   !!

I'm sure you find it cringeworthy to hear a yank talk footy when they know F**k all about it. So do us a favour, don't talk about something you know F**k all about.

Mmm not sure there..
 3 FA cups
3 league cups
1 UEFA cup
1 CL

Plus
2 super cups
2 charity shields
3 FA youth cups

Against
1 league cup

Trophies mean alot to me

Both only spend what the club generates on transfers

I'd say the only thing fsg have done that Moores didn't or couldn't is the rebuild on the  main stand, as a new stadium or upgrade was one of the  main   reasons he sold.

I'm not a hater of fsg personally but I'm not sure they've done much he didn't and we certainly had more days out that ended in shiny things at the end of them 

FSG didn't manually build the stand or actually pay for it, loaning LFC the monies as they did.
By my reckoning that puts Moores' contribution to LFC way above FSG when the trophies won tally is taken into account.

In a business sense that premise is up for debate.
18 trophies under Moore's v 1 under FSG suggests no debate in a footy context.

FSG didn't manually build the stand or actually pay for it, loaning LFC the monies as they did.
By my reckoning that puts Moores' contribution to LFC way above FSG when the trophies won tally is taken into account.

In a business sense that premise is up for debate.
18 trophies under Moore's v 1 under FSG suggests no debate in a footy context.

If Moores continues, all due respect to his contribution to his point of sale, where is this club today.

No one seems to really take into account the splash of cash into rival clubs over the last decade. We're competing against much more than we ever have in the PL era. The repeated failed opportunities to win the league under Moores should also be taken into account if we're talking trophies.