NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

This thread is really showing where some priorities lie when it comes to what constitutes success.

1 league cup vs numerous trophies, including the European Cup and regular European football and yet FSG are the better owners. 🙄🙄

I assume he means in terms of increasing our revenue, in which case he has a point.

Where we have to thank them is the money from the stadium extension.

Any other revenue has basically gone up the same as all the other big club, with the exception of Man City, whos outside revenue has doubled or trebled compared to Us, Man U, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea.

I believe the big jump was when H/G took over with the help of Ian Ayre

You've known me a long time on here Stu - pretty disappointed you'd accuse me of any agenda when all I'm doing is trying to widen the way we look at comparative eras and achievements. I'm not saying the Moores era is a complete failure, but those comparing pure trophy hauls without looking at the landscape, what was achievable etc.

Don't accuse me of an agenda ever again. Poor form mate.

No offence intended mate, we all have agendas or premises up for discussion sometimes on an arena such as a forum, I am putting forward an agenda as you are.
I think maybe you are thinking about 'hidden agendas' which are F***ing shady.

As you say David we go back a long way on this forum and I know you're sound, would not consider bullshitting you.

Bullshit!!

We won the Champions League under Moores.

We've only won the League Cup under FSG.

Moores shelled out of his own pocket to buy Kuyt, Henry would have a F***ing heart attack if he had to do that.

More for the long term sustainability of the club, and bringing us into the 21st century, also catching up with the teams that overtook us.

Already had this conversation mate. 

Where we have to thank them is the money from the stadium extension.

Any other revenue has basically gone up the same as all the other big club, with the exception of Man City, whos outside revenue has doubled or trebled compared to Us, Man U, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea.

I believe the big jump was when H/G took over with the help of Ian Ayre

I'll thank them for the stadium extension if they take the money back in the form of increased equity from a sale, rather than a yearly dividend.
In other words, they increase the sale price by the amount they paid for the stadium upgrade, and recoup the money that way.

They also spent 10 million quid (of the clubs money) during the summer, for finishing tarting up the stadium, and the new pitch.

I would t

I'll thank them for the stadium extension if they take the money back in the form of increased equity from a sale, rather than a yearly dividend.
In other words, they increase the sale price by the amount they paid for the stadium upgrade, and recoup the money that way.

They also spent 10 million quid (of the clubs money) during the summer, for finishing tarting up the stadium, and the new pitch.

It would be great if they only take the money for the extension from the profit they make at the end. If they do that well on them!

If they start paying off the loan for the extension before they leave how will you feel?

I would tIt would be great if they only take the money for the extension from the profit they make at the end. If they do that well on them!

If they start paying off the loan for the extension before they leave how will you feel?

The way it's set up, I'd be very surprised if they took the money out as a dividend.
If I'm remembering correctly, Mike Gordon increased his stake and basically took control of LFC by putting in the money for the stadium expansion, so he only really has 2 choices, which is taking a yearly dividend from profits, or taking an extra cut when the club is sold (as it will be at some point).

I'd be disappointed if he took it as a dividend, because he doesn't need the money and that would also reduce his share when the club is sold, so it doesn't make much sense.

How I'd feel?
I'd feel the dividend from profit would be better used for players.

The dreams we have as children fade away eh

I remember growing up dreaming of winning trophies..
Oh to be a kid today dreaming of profit dividends and having posters of the ftse 500 graph on their wall 🙄

The dreams we have as children fade away eh

I remember growing up dreaming of winning trophies..
Oh to be a kid today dreaming of profit dividends and having posters of the ftse 500 graph on their wall 🙄

I'm all for financial stability, thankfully that is no longer an argument for poor transfer windows. When I remember the Liverpool of my childhood, we had Barnes, Beardsley, Rush, Aldridge, Hansen etc, no of which were purchased with the notion that we'd win titles with them, not with the thinking that one day we could make a profit on them!

The dreams we have as children fade away eh

I remember growing up dreaming of winning trophies..
Oh to be a kid today dreaming of profit dividends and having posters of the ftse 500 graph on their wall 🙄

I was never that bothered about the owners before h&g came along, and I said after that fiasco, that I would keep an eye on any new owners.

So it's not about admiring FSG or anything other than keeping an eye on them.
I download and go through the accounts each year, which isn't something I particularly enjoy, but it gives me an insight that perhaps others don't have.
For instance, as above, the way the new stand is being paid for.
Or the revolving interest free credit facility the club has.
Or the fact that we still carry debt on the books, because a certain level of debt is actually good for a business (any business).
Or the fact that money left over from previous windows has been earning more interest and not being liable for tax, because it is in a hedge fund managed by Henry, in much the same way as he makes his own money work for him.
It all helps understand that these blokes are not the shysters that h&g were.
I'm not happy that we are a long term investment vehicle for them, and nor am I happy that at some point we'll have new owners and have to go through the same sh*t all over again.
But, it is what it is, I can't change it, but I can keep a watch out.

The way it's set up, I'd be very surprised if they took the money out as a dividend.
If I'm remembering correctly, Mike Gordon increased his stake and basically took control of LFC by putting in the money for the stadium expansion, so he only really has 2 choices, which is taking a yearly dividend from profits, or taking an extra cut when the club is sold (as it will be at some point).

I'd be disappointed if he took it as a dividend, because he doesn't need the money and that would also reduce his share when the club is sold, so it doesn't make much sense.

How I'd feel?
I'd feel the dividend from profit would be better used for players.

I didn't ask about a dividend and personally I have never believed the owner would take money out of the club before the sale - the owner will not take any dividend!

What I asked about was paying off the loan for the stadium extension.

I didn't ask about a dividend and personally I have never believed the owner would take money out of the club before the sale - the owner will not take any dividend!

What I asked about was paying off the loan for the stadium extension.

As I said, the way the loan is structured only leaves 2 ways of paying it back.
1) via dividend taken out of yearly profits
2) via increased equity from a future sale.

So, dividend is relevant because that is one of the ways the "loan" can be paid back, and an important point to remember is that it has to come out of profit, and they can't just take it as they please, which is probably why it was structured in the way it was.

I was never that bothered about the owners before h&g came along, and I said after that fiasco, that I would keep an eye on any new owners.

So it's not about admiring FSG or anything other than keeping an eye on them.
I download and go through the accounts each year, which isn't something I particularly enjoy, but it gives me an insight that perhaps others don't have.
For instance, as above, the way the new stand is being paid for.
Or the revolving interest free credit facility the club has.
Or the fact that we still carry debt on the books, because a certain level of debt is actually good for a business (any business).
Or the fact that money left over from previous windows has been earning more interest and not being liable for tax, because it is in a hedge fund managed by Henry, in much the same way as he makes his own money work for him.
It all helps understand that these blokes are not the shysters that h&g were.
I'm not happy that we are a long term investment vehicle for them, and nor am I happy that at some point we'll have new owners and have to go through the same sh*t all over again.
But, it is what it is, I can't change it, but I can keep a watch out.

I mean  this with the greatest of respect but I couldn't give a F**k... Now I was as involved as any in the h&g stuff and I don't have any concerns that fsg are anything like them.

However what you said earlier which is great that they have bridged the gap financially with the other top clubs.. But what they aren't doing is closing any type of gap in the trophy stakes.

If you downloaded the 'What we won this year ' report it wouldn't take as much reading 😕

If we start winning under these I'll go from middle of the road to a big fan. However they haven't yet so the praise I'm afraid has to be put  on hold.

One trophy in 7 years isn't enough for me
It's by far the worst of the other top clubs

As I said, the way the loan is structured only leaves 2 ways of paying it back.
1) via dividend taken out of yearly profits
2) via increased equity from a future sale.

So, dividend is relevant because that is one of the ways the "loan" can be paid back, and an important point to remember is that it has to come out of profit, and they can't just take it as they please, which is probably why it was structured in the way it was.

Cant you just answer the question?

Cant you just answer the question?

I have answered it.

If you can't grasp what is a very simple explanation, that's your issue, not mine.

As I said, the way the loan is structured only leaves 2 ways of paying it back.
1) via dividend taken out of yearly profits
2) via increased equity from a future sale.

So, dividend is relevant because that is one of the ways the "loan" can be paid back, and an important point to remember is that it has to come out of profit, and they can't just take it as they please, which is probably why it was structured in the way it was.

I mean  this with the greatest of respect but I couldn't give a F**k... Now I was as involved as any in the h&g stuff and I don't have any concerns that fsg are anything like them.

However what you said earlier which is great that they have bridged the gap financially with the other top clubs.. But what they aren't doing is closing any type of gap in the trophy stakes.

If you downloaded the 'What we won this year ' report it wouldn't take as much reading 😕

If we start winning under these I'll go from middle of the road to a big fan. However they haven't yet so the praise I'm afraid has to be put  on hold.

One trophy in 7 years isn't enough for me
It's by far the worst of the other top clubs

Worse than Spurs?

regardless, yes, they need to start turning off field success into on field success, and as I have said before, I think they'll do that now that Klopp is in place.

I have answered it.

If you can't grasp what is a very simple explanation, that's your issue, not mine.

I would like to know how you know all the details of a loan between LFC and FSG - An intercompany loan.

Worse than Spurs?

regardless, yes, they need to start turning off field success into on field success, and as I have said before, I think they'll do that now that Klopp is in place.

Spurs aren't a big side, proven by the  fact they haven't been able to win anything in their purple patch.

I dont set spurs as a bar I want to reach and I don't think of what spurs has done as success.

I dont want to become a spurs.

The rest? Far behind in the winning things stages

I would like to know how you know all the details of a loan between LFC and FSG - An intercompany loan.

Explanatory notes in the accounts, and further information from Companies House.

For instance, the "Termination of Appointment of Ian Ayre as a Director on 24 Feb 2017"

It's all in there.
You just have to be able to find it.

Spurs aren't a big side, proven by tge fact they haven't been able to win anything in their purple patch.

I dont set spurs as a bar I want to reach and I don't think of what spurs has done as success.

I dont want to become a spurs.

The rest? Far behind in the winning things stages

Well, like it or not, Spurs are on a par with us at the moment as far as league placings go, and probably a bit better, so it doesn't really matter what you or I think.

I'd be the same, and set the bar higher than Spurs, but that's only where we aspire to be, not where we are yet.

Well, like it or not, Spurs are on a par with us at the moment as far as league placings go, and probably a bit better, so it doesn't really matter what you or I think.

I'd be the same, and set the bar higher than Spurs, but that's only where we aspire to be, not where we are yet.

Exactly...

Glad you agree 👍

Explanatory notes in the accounts, and further information from Companies House.

For instance, the "Termination of Appointment of Ian Ayre as a Director on 24 Feb 2017"

It's all in there.
You just have to be able to find it.

You're taking sh*t!

If the owners want they can go to a bank and borrow the the money to pay it back to themselves.

You're taking sh*t!

If the owners want they can go to a bank and borrow the the money to pay it back to themselves.

Yeah, and it would still have to show up on the accounts, both where it came from and where it went. 

I won't be replying again, because you try to pull this sh*t every time, and I really can't be arsed with it.

Go and read the accounts, then get back to me, other than that I have nothing more to say to you.