NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

So what you are saying that Ashley spent more money than FSG & made Newcastle less successful than LFC..

, good post, some of the crap that gets posted on here is absurd, its people arguing for the sake of arguing, desperate to find fault in the owners, now apparently got not being rich enough!!

Having owners that are confident, seriously confident in the knowledge that their asset is buoyant enough to repay any funds invested is essential.
Essential for the ultimate success of the asset and the bank balance of the owner.

That confidence is none existent as our owners are happy creaming LFC and taking a quick profit.

A quick profit?  Seriously man. What in the hell are you talking about?

….and creaming the profits.

They haven’t taken any money out the club, so you’re talking absolute sh*te, once again.

It’s clear you don’t understand a thing about business, despite all your ramblings about ‘viable business concern’ and ‘the asset which is Liverpool FC’.

You essentially want us to just load the club with debt and like the Glazers (as you have already mentioned). You’re going in circles and can’t keep up with your own nonsensical ramblings.

They haven’t taken any money out the club, so you’re talking absolute sh*te, once again.

It’s clear you don’t understand a thing about business, despite all your ramblings about ‘viable business concern’ and ‘the asset which is Liverpool FC’.

You essentially want us to just load the club with debt and like the Glazers (as you have already mentioned). You’re going in circles and can’t keep up with your own nonsensical ramblings.

Do you understand the concept of dividends to shareholders and the more money made from royalties, advertising etc the higher the dividends.
Apart from that there are the outrageous salaries executives award themselves.

This is an example of the myriad of examples where people make money on the back of LFC and nothing of any value goes back into the club.

You mention the Glazer control of the mancs where Glazer Snr now deceased, would borrow and buy top names under Ferguson and the club was and is in a comfortable position with the debt, the assured incomings more than cover the debt.
That situation still prevails although his siblings are not as eager to part with the dosh as their father, that explains their descent of the league in the last few years.
A lack of commitment from the owners of that club is now a liability.

Any more nonsensical comment?

A quick profit?  Seriously man. What in the hell are you talking about?

A quick profit in the context of none-investment and cream the asset as opposed to established owners backing their investment - man.

FSG have to be praised and admired for the way they have gone about things culminating in a serious transfer window this summer.

Cannot argue the point Skip although with some reservation as Klopp is deserving of the vast majority of appreciation.

You mention the Glazer control of the mancs where Glazer Snr now deceased, would borrow and buy top names under Ferguson and the club was and is in a comfortable position with the debt, the assured incomings more than cover the debt.

Can you simply imagine.. just sit back and think if these had come in and piled debt against the club to buy players on the back of the last lot?
Imagine the misgivings and panic let alone our reputation with the banks that would impact on that

That's more nonsensical than most things being said

As for the salaries paid to the executives it is absolutely in line with the people in the same roles at all the other big clubs.. yet you expect these to be different? Why would they?
They aren't here to do us a favour

You say you were happy to start with but then became sceptical and questioning...angry after a while

I've got to ask if it's for the reasons you laid out it makes no sense because you should have been angry from day 1 as that business model was laid out from day 1 and they've never veered from it

Makes no sense


I've questioned and been angry, still am at a fair bit they've done in their 8 years but what you're angry about makes so little sense.. especially as you said yourself you were happy with it initially

Reading the last couple of pages here, I couldn't care less what the club is worth now compared to when FSG bought it and I couldn't care less what wages Henry or anybody else takes from the club.  FSG are business men and they're here to make money. That's fine with me, of course it is, that's the whole point of business. It's not a hobby for them or a charity, they're here to make serious wedge and I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is going years without being competitive on the pitch and that's exactly what's happened under their ownership.

The squad and the players we have now is solely down to klopp. Rodgers tried to sign players such as Willian, Costa, Sanchez but they weren't interested. It's not FSG that have brought players here or convinced them to sign for us so I can't help but laugh when I see 'they've signed the worlds most expensive goalkeeper'.

The only reason alisson, Van Dijk, Keita etc are here is because klopp has convinced them to be part of his project rather than be a sell out and go to Man City or Chelsea. That's the only F***ing reason. Without klopp they wouldn't be here.

The best thing FSG have done for our club is sign klopp because without him we would be in all kinds of trouble. No other manager in the world could survive on a sell to buy policy, upgrade the players we have under that model and at the same time get the maximum out of the ones we already have. Even my two best mates Jordan Henderson and dejan Lovren have performed so much better under Jürgen. He's got them performing to the best they possibly can and no other manager could do that.

The day Klopp moves on is the day we're doomed. The players we have now won't want to stay because as stated, they're only here for klopp. So we will be selling off our best players but we won't have a manager who can convince other top players or even better ones to sign. So we go back to spending big on average premiership players - a bit like what Everton are doing now and how it was under Rodgers, and you can forget challenging for the title or even the top four, we will be back languishing around 7th - 8th.

Jürgen klopp is absolutely crucial to any success we might have. FSG aren't. Banging my head against a brick wall how people just can't see that. Completely baffles me.

Reading the last couple of pages here, I couldn't care less what the club is worth now compared to when FSG bought it and I couldn't care less what wages Henry or anybody else takes from the club.  FSG are business men and they're here to make money. That's fine with me, of course it is, that's the whole point of business. It's not a hobby for them or a charity, they're here to make serious wedge and I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is going years without being competitive on the pitch and that's exactly what's happened under their ownership.

The squad and the players we have now is solely down to klopp. Rodgers tried to sign players such as Willian, Costa, Sanchez but they weren't interested. It's not FSG that have brought players here or convinced them to sign for us so I can't help but laugh when I see 'they've signed the worlds most expensive goalkeeper'.

The only reason alisson, Van Dijk, Keita etc are here is because klopp has convinced them to be part of his project rather than be a sell out and go to Man City or Chelsea. That's the only f**king reason. Without klopp they wouldn't be here.

The best thing FSG have done for our club is sign klopp because without him we would be in all kinds of trouble. No other manager in the world could survive on a sell to buy policy, upgrade the players we have under that model and at the same time get the maximum out of the ones we already have. Even my two best mates Jordan Henderson and dejan Lovren have performed so much better under Jürgen. He's got them performing to the best they possibly can and no other manager could do that.

The day Klopp moves on is the day we're doomed. The players we have now won't want to stay because as stated, they're only here for klopp. So we will be selling off our best players but we won't have a manager who can convince other top players or even better ones to sign. So we go back to spending big on average premiership players - a bit like what Everton are doing now and how it was under Rodgers, and you can forget challenging for the title or even the top four, we will be back languishing around 7th - 8th.

Jürgen klopp is absolutely crucial to any success we might have. FSG aren't. Banging my head against a brick wall how people just can't see that. Completely baffles me.

Yep, this is where I'm at and always have been. 100% agree

The only thing I've been debating the last few pages is misguided and unneeded angst
People (stuey ) is just way off the mark with his line of (constant) criticism
It's like we have the only owners who work to that model whereas it's simply the norm at the vast majority of top clubs nowadays

I said the other day the same as you have, the only thing that's making the model work is the manager, he is key to it.

I have no issue pulling fsg up on a lot of stuff they have done and do do but stuey thinks they're here to do us a favour and just pour their cash into it which they just won't and never said they will

I don't like them much, well that's not true I simply don't give a F**k about them but we have to look at it is for what it is not what we think a simulation should work
I just don't get the view for criticising them for the wrong things when there is plenty to go at regardless if you wanted to

What we need to do is hope to F**k that we win the league under Klopp because it's our only chance in this modern world of football.
If we do and when he leaves there is a chance of building on that with getting the next appointment right as well

Do you understand the concept of dividends to shareholders and the more money made from royalties, advertising etc the higher the dividends.
Apart from that there are the outrageous salaries executives award themselves.

This is an example of the myriad of examples where people make money on the back of LFC and nothing of any value goes back into the club.

You mention the Glazer control of the mancs where Glazer Snr now deceased, would borrow and buy top names under Ferguson and the club was and is in a comfortable position with the debt, the assured incomings more than cover the debt.
That situation still prevails although his siblings are not as eager to part with the dosh as their father, that explains their descent of the league in the last few years.
A lack of commitment from the owners of that club is now a liability.

Any more nonsensical comment?

What dividends, how much are they, plus how much is John Henry paying himself? Are you also angry at how much we are paying the players manager and coaching staff, you do realise most of them are filthy rich yes? Perhaps in your socialist utopia football club, all players would just play for the share joy of it and everyone gets free entry to matches etc.

Tell me do you pay all your salary to a charity and forego any luxuries for yourself if not why would you expect the owners to do this? Your envy and jealous of the owners is palpable or is it the fact that they are American which really annoys you?

Reading the last couple of pages here, I couldn't care less what the club is worth now compared to when FSG bought it and I couldn't care less what wages Henry or anybody else takes from the club.  FSG are business men and they're here to make money. That's fine with me, of course it is, that's the whole point of business. It's not a hobby for them or a charity, they're here to make serious wedge and I'm fine with that.

What I'm not fine with is going years without being competitive on the pitch and that's exactly what's happened under their ownership.

The squad and the players we have now is solely down to klopp. Rodgers tried to sign players such as Willian, Costa, Sanchez but they weren't interested. It's not FSG that have brought players here or convinced them to sign for us so I can't help but laugh when I see 'they've signed the worlds most expensive goalkeeper'.

The only reason alisson, Van Dijk, Keita etc are here is because klopp has convinced them to be part of his project rather than be a sell out and go to Man City or Chelsea. That's the only f**king reason. Without klopp they wouldn't be here.

The best thing FSG have done for our club is sign klopp because without him we would be in all kinds of trouble. No other manager in the world could survive on a sell to buy policy, upgrade the players we have under that model and at the same time get the maximum out of the ones we already have. Even my two best mates Jordan Henderson and dejan Lovren have performed so much better under Jürgen. He's got them performing to the best they possibly can and no other manager could do that.

The day Klopp moves on is the day we're doomed. The players we have now won't want to stay because as stated, they're only here for klopp. So we will be selling off our best players but we won't have a manager who can convince other top players or even better ones to sign. So we go back to spending big on average premiership players - a bit like what Everton are doing now and how it was under Rodgers, and you can forget challenging for the title or even the top four, we will be back languishing around 7th - 8th.

Jürgen klopp is absolutely crucial to any success we might have. FSG aren't. Banging my head against a brick wall how people just can't see that. Completely baffles me.

Yes Jürgen is instrumental in attracting players to the club but someone still has to pay for the transfers and wages or do you imagine that Jürgen pays for it all out of his own piggy bank? Also I think its incredibly arrogant to flippantly disregard all the other people who work hard in the club to ensure players are happy fit and healthy, transfers are done, sponsorship deals signed, pitches maintained etc etc . Its not all down to Jürgen although he is of course a very important element.
I do however 100% agree that its fine and correct for the owners to take some dividends out of the club as long as it's not excessive but from what I can see it's not, they seem to invest the vast majority of profits back into the club and run it on a sustainable footing.

Yes Jürgen is instrumental in attracting players to the club but someone still has to pay for the transfers and wages or do you imagine that Jürgen pays for it all out of his own piggy bank? Also I think its incredibly arrogant to flippantly disregard all the other people who work hard in the club to ensure players are happy fit and healthy, transfers are done, sponsorship deals signed, pitches maintained etc etc . Its not all down to Jürgen although he is of course a very important element.
I do however 100% agree that its fine and correct for the owners to take some dividends out of the club as long as it's not excessive but from what I can see it's not, they seem to invest the vast majority of profits back into the club and run it on a sustainable footing.

I don't care what dividends Henry or anybody else takes from the club as long as we're competitive on the pitch - something which we haven't been under their ownership.

They invest in players but only when we sell them first. Look at our net spend. Before this summer was it negative?? I can't quite remember the figures at the top of my head but if it wasn't negative then it was bloody close to being so. And thats despite having all the tv deals and CL money on top of player sales too. A club of our size shouldn't be running on a negative net spend when it comes to transfers. It's ridiculous to be honest and it shows what a job klopp has done reaching the CL final and securing top four two years running while working under those restraints. He is absolutely vital to any success we have so it's not disrespectful at all, it's just pure fact. Without klopp, we wouldn't be anywhere close to our current position.

Van Dijk chose Liverpool because of klopp. Other clubs wanted him but he wanted klopp. He could have got more money elsewhere but he wasn't interested. All he wanted was to play for klopp. Keita was the same. Apparently Fabinho was too, he supposedly turned united down before signing for us. Alisson couldn't wait to come here either despite rumours Chelsea were about to come in for him and they probably already made contact with him.  Klopp is the attraction for LFC, nothing or nobody else.

I don't care what dividends Henry or anybody else takes from the club as long as we're competitive on the pitch - something which we haven't been under their ownership.

They invest in players but only when we sell them first. Look at our net spend. Before this summer was it negative?? I can't quite remember the figures at the top of my head but if it wasn't negative then it was bloody close to being so. And thats despite having all the tv deals and CL money on top of player sales too. A club of our size shouldn't be running on a negative net spend when it comes to transfers. It's ridiculous to be honest and it shows what a job klopp has done reaching the CL final and securing top four two years running while working under those restraints. He is absolutely vital to any success we have so it's not disrespectful at all, it's just pure fact. Without klopp, we wouldn't be anywhere close to our current position.

Van Dijk chose Liverpool because of klopp. Other clubs wanted him but he wanted klopp. He could have got more money elsewhere but he wasn't interested. All he wanted was to play for klopp. Keita was the same. Apparently Fabinho was too, he supposedly turned united down before signing for us. Alisson couldn't wait to come here either despite rumours Chelsea were about to come in for him and they probably already made contact with him.  Klopp is the attraction for LFC, nothing or nobody else.

Are you basically saying that the club is ALL about Jürgen now, that there is no other history than Jürgen. I acknowledge that Jürgen is a big draw for these players signing, of course he is, but do you think they would have signed for Burnely just because Jürgen was a manager there? The club can't function without everyone else and especially without the owners, who's money and vision have transformed the club from a sleeping slowly decaying giant into a modern footballing club with an international reach and which last year reached the final of the CL, which I would say is fairly competitive. We then went on to sign 4 very exciting players who should make us even more competitive

Are you basically saying that the club is ALL about Jürgen now, that there is no other history than Jürgen. I acknowledge that Jürgen is a big draw for these players signing, of course he is, but do you think they would have signed for Burnely just because Jürgen was a manager there? The club can't function without everyone else and especially without the owners, who's money and vision have transformed the club from a sleeping slowly decaying giant into a modern footballing club with an international reach and which last year reached the final of the CL, which I would say is fairly competitive. We then went on to sign 4 very exciting players who should make us even more competitive

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

We can no longer attract players based on our history. Footballs changed now and 99% of the time, money talks. Fortunately for us we are in that other 1% and players actually want to play for our manager regardless of money.

In my opinion, you're naive if you believe we can still pull players because of how dominant we were back in the 70s and 80s. If that was the case then why couldn't Rodgers sign anyone who was half decent? Kenny struggled too.

Using your example then I believe if klopp was manager of Burnley and they sold 300m worth of players but he still got them in the champions league, still got them to a champions league final, then he could still use that money and bring in top players to play for him yes. I think he's that much of a pull. It's irrelevant that burnley is a shithole, and they are a small club with little history. Players just want klopp.

Look at what he's doing at Liverpool now. We're signing players that other top clubs (with more money than us) want but they want to play for klopp. We wouldn't have Virgil or Keita if it wasn't for him, are you disagreeing?

So you can praise the owners all you want mate, but it's klopp who is the pull, not them, and without Jürgen we will be in a lot of trouble just like we were under Kenny and just like we were under Brendan.

FSG can't compete with other clubs. But Klopp can.

Can you simply imagine.. just sit back and think if these had come in and piled debt against the club to buy players on the back of the last lot?
Imagine the misgivings and panic let alone our reputation with the banks that would impact on that

That's more nonsensical than most things being said

As for the salaries paid to the executives it is absolutely in line with the people in the same roles at all the other big clubs.. yet you expect these to be different? Why would they?
They aren't here to do us a favour

You say you were happy to start with but then became sceptical and questioning...angry after a while

I've got to ask if it's for the reasons you laid out it makes no sense because you should have been angry from day 1 as that business model was laid out from day 1 and they've never veered from it

Makes no sense


I've questioned and been angry, still am at a fair bit they've done in their 8 years but what you're angry about makes so little sense.. especially as you said yourself you were happy with it initially

Of course I was relieved and grateful at the outset but then misgivings set in and at one point the shadow of those other frauds appeared. That pervaded for some years with the admitted mistakes by JWH himself.

With the arrival of Klopp comes a breath of fresh air with his footballing genius and decisive management, I ask you to imagine the F**k up if FSG had not brought him in and appointed a  man like some of his ruinous predecessors.
Our man seems happy with the unrelenting workload of discovering footy legends, he has little choice because buying established stars would raise budget concerns.
The record fee for the keeper was an absolute necessity in view of the farcical incumbents presently on board, some would say as a result of FSG's financial restrictions coming back and biting are, as has so often been the case over the years.

We were promised "success in the long term" over and over but our only saviour at this time is Klopp, if one man does it for you as a credible long term solution go with it.
The bootroom is a memory as is credible strength in depth to compete credibly in the tournaments success brings.

As a lifelong LFC supporter of more decades than I care to remember of course I am elated with the genius of Herr Klopp however that cannot mask the reservation held for JWH&Co.

A quick profit in the context of none-investment and cream the asset as opposed to established owners backing their investment - man.

Non-investment? Not backing their investment?

- Stadium Expansion
- Re-building the training complex
- Complete overhall of the main club shop
- Possibly further stadium expansion at Anfield Road end

What I'm not fine with is going years without being competitive on the pitch and that's exactly what's happened under their ownership.

The squad and the players we have now is solely down to klopp. Rodgers tried to sign players such as Willian, Costa, Sanchez but they weren't interested. It's not FSG that have brought players here or convinced them to sign for us so I can't help but laugh when I see 'they've signed the worlds most expensive goalkeeper'.

The only reason alisson, Van Dijk, Keita etc are here is because klopp has convinced them to be part of his project rather than be a sell out and go to Man City or Chelsea. That's the only f**king reason. Without klopp they wouldn't be here.

It's got to be a combination of both, surely. Klopp is clearly very good at getting the best out of players and getting to the final of the Champions League had virtually nothing to do with FSG directly, and was down to Klopp's management of the players. Things like us reaching the final of the Champions League will definitely have helped persuade players who might have otherwise wanted to go elsewhere that they should come and play for us.

However, the players cost money. FSG have set up systems within the club to raise more money so that we can spend more on transfer fees and on player wages. We can now offer clubs more money to sign players and can now offer those players more competitive wages than we were able to previously. Klopp didn't sanction the stadium expansion, he didn't sanction the extremely lucrative pre-season tours, the various sponsorship deals etc - that was FSG's work.

We're in a very strong position right now and, for me, that's a result of having a brilliant manager and a very competent group of owners.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

We can no longer attract players based on our history. Footballs changed now and 99% of the time, money talks. Fortunately for us we are in that other 1% and players actually want to play for our manager regardless of money.

In my opinion, you're naive if you believe we can still pull players because of how dominant we were back in the 70s and 80s. If that was the case then why couldn't Rodgers sign anyone who was half decent? Kenny struggled too.

Using your example then I believe if klopp was manager of Burnley and they sold 300m worth of players but he still got them in the champions league, still got them to a champions league final, then he could still use that money and bring in top players to play for him yes. I think he's that much of a pull. It's irrelevant that burnley is a shithole, and they are a small club with little history. Players just want klopp.

Look at what he's doing at Liverpool now. We're signing players that other top clubs (with more money than us) want but they want to play for klopp. We wouldn't have Virgil or Keita if it wasn't for him, are you disagreeing?

So you can praise the owners all you want mate, but it's klopp who is the pull, not them, and without Jürgen we will be in a lot of trouble just like we were under Kenny and just like we were under Brendan.

FSG can't compete with other clubs. But Klopp can.

Oh so he could attract them as Burnley manager but only if he had lots of cash and was in the CL, so not really ONLY about Jürgen then is it. :-)

BTW I am fairly sure that Alisson said in his interview that he was amazed by the atmosphere at Anfield when he played here with Roma, so do you not think that might have been a little part of the reason why he joined us. I think you are being quite arrogant and dismissive of all the other factors that make this club so special and I find it a bit confusing to be honest, are you perhaps one of those slightly insecure people who refuse to change their mind or opinion as they think it makes them look weak? In reality the opposite is true, having an open mind is good, and plenty of times people have changed my opinion on this forum, its why I like it so much, the exchange of ideas.

Of course I was relieved and grateful at the outset but then misgivings set in and at one point the shadow of those other frauds appeared. That pervaded for some years with the admitted mistakes by JWH himself.

With the arrival of Klopp comes a breath of fresh air with his footballing genius and decisive management, I ask you to imagine the f**k up if FSG had not brought him in and appointed a  man like some of his ruinous predecessors.
Our man seems happy with the unrelenting workload of discovering footy legends, he has little choice because buying established stars would raise budget concerns.
The record fee for the keeper was an absolute necessity in view of the farcical incumbents presently on board, some would say as a result of FSG's financial restrictions coming back and biting are, as has so often been the case over the years.

We were promised "success in the long term" over and over but our only saviour at this time is Klopp, if one man does it for you as a credible long term solution go with it.
The bootroom is a memory as is credible strength in depth to compete credibly in the tournaments success brings.

As a lifelong LFC supporter of more decades than I care to remember of course I am elated with the genius of Herr Klopp however that cannot mask the reservation held for JWH&Co.

Your main criticisms are misdirected though

You constantly go on about only investing what we earn and not spending their own money when that was said from day dot and is the model used by not only most clubs worldwide now but throughout history.

Go back to Shanks... he used to offer his resignation at least once a year over the board not signing the players he wanted, used to have digs about them only being there to sign the cheques and the holy trinity not including the board

This way has always been the way yet you are obsessed over it being the Achilles heal under fsg only

Go after them for the mistakes they have made but this constant drone about them not putting their own money in is misdirected and tiresome

Non-investment? Not backing their investment?

- Stadium Expansion
- Re-building the training complex
- Complete overhall of the main club shop
- Possibly further stadium expansion at Anfield Road end

Jesus wept how many times!!!
All by way of loans to the club or paid for out of club funds.

Your main criticisms are misdirected though

You constantly go on about only investing what we earn and not spending their own money when that was said from day dot and is the model used by not only most clubs worldwide now but throughout history.

Go back to Shanks... he used to offer his resignation at least once a year over the board not signing the players he wanted, used to have digs about them only being there to sign the cheques and the holy trinity not including the board

This way has always been the way yet you are obsessed over it being the Achilles heal under fsg only

Go after them for the mistakes they have made but this constant drone about them not putting their own money in is misdirected and tiresome

Fairy muff, as well as other mistakes FSG fail to take advantage of a proven tangible asset by under investment.
Will that do ya or do I have to disappear up my own arsehole?

Look at our net spend. Before this summer was it negative?? I can't quite remember the figures at the top of my head but if it wasn't negative then it was bloody close to being so. And thats despite having all the tv deals and CL money on top of player sales too.

Do those net spend calculations include the money spent on developing the stadium, the training facilities etc?

We were never going to be able to spend as much as we would have liked with all that work going on but it's misleading to not include it when looking at how much the owners have spent. Even if they decided to sell up tomorrow, that work will still be there and we'll still reap the benefits from it.

All by way of loans to the club or paid for out of club funds.

How else would it be paid?