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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      MarkMitt
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27075: Feb 22, 2021 08:38:30 pm
      The value of their assets has increased.
      That means their personal worth has increased.

      That's why wealthy people buy assets that will increase in value instead of keeping their money in a bank.

      JH was an asset billionaire before he took over LFC.

      Mike Gordon is also an asset billionaire who bought 12% of the whole group, and runs LFC (JH concentrates on the Red Sox).

      So, as the value of LFC increases, their paper worth or asset worth increases.
      Same goes for their other assets.

      That worth will only be realised when they sell the club, but for now, on paper, as the owners, it increases their worth.
      This is inline with JH's trading strategy, which made his vast fortune, of finding undervalued assets and building them up over the long term.

      The accounts, prepared and signed off by KPMG show they don't take any money apart from loan repayments.
      If you think it's the same as the bloke who owns the cornershop, knocking out a spreadsheet every year for the taxman, you'd be wrong.

      So, to recap: Their assets (including LFC) have increased in value, which gives them a higher worth on paper.
      They won't make any profit until they sell the club, and don't take any money out of the club (apart from loan repayments, and even then the loan mostly rolls over, interest free).

      Now, you can debate the ethics, business practice or long term viability of buying a club for £300 million, increasing the value of it to $1.34 billion dollars (call it a billion quid), and then selling it (which they haven't done yet), but just gobbing off about them "nicking money" from something they own, is pretty wide of the mark.

      A million quid is pocket change to these blokes.
      They don't give a f**k about taking a few quid out.
      They're in it for the long haul, and success means they make more money when they eventually sell.



      And of course financial fraud on a much grander scal
      The value of their assets has increased.
      That means their personal worth has increased.

      That's why wealthy people buy assets that will increase in value instead of keeping their money in a bank.

      JH was an asset billionaire before he took over LFC.

      Mike Gordon is also an asset billionaire who bought 12% of the whole group, and runs LFC (JH concentrates on the Red Sox).

      So, as the value of LFC increases, their paper worth or asset worth increases.
      Same goes for their other assets.

      That worth will only be realised when they sell the club, but for now, on paper, as the owners, it increases their worth.
      This is inline with JH's trading strategy, which made his vast fortune, of finding undervalued assets and building them up over the long term.

      The accounts, prepared and signed off by KPMG show they don't take any money apart from loan repayments.
      If you think it's the same as the bloke who owns the cornershop, knocking out a spreadsheet every year for the taxman, you'd be wrong.

      So, to recap: Their assets (including LFC) have increased in value, which gives them a higher worth on paper.
      They won't make any profit until they sell the club, and don't take any money out of the club (apart from loan repayments, and even then the loan mostly rolls over, interest free).

      Now, you can debate the ethics, business practice or long term viability of buying a club for £300 million, increasing the value of it to $1.34 billion dollars (call it a billion quid), and then selling it (which they haven't done yet), but just gobbing off about them "nicking money" from something they own, is pretty wide of the mark.

      A million quid is pocket change to these blokes.
      They don't give a f**k about taking a few quid out.
      They're in it for the long haul, and success means they make more money when they eventually sell.



      It’s not “gobbing off” as you put it, it’s what I see and believe. Same way the worlds richest people and corporations find ways of evading taxation on a massive scales, that makes the LFC accounts sheet look like pocket money. So to assume because something has been signed off as cochure, is pretty mad actually.

      Going round in circles with this debate, believe what you like and I’ll have my views on it and leave it at that.



      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27076: Feb 22, 2021 08:42:08 pm
      Just waffle I’m afraid and doesn’t prove a thing. Not really any different to City falling foul of FFP regs and then magically not guilty of a breach.

      And of course you’ve read all of the hundreds of pages of accounts no doubt?

      That’s your official accounts filed to the HMRC due to club being public limited
      MarkMitt
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27077: Feb 22, 2021 08:44:11 pm
      That’s your official accounts filed to the HMRC due to club being public limited

      Read above. All true.

      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27078: Feb 22, 2021 08:47:41 pm


      If you think the club are lying or doctoring the accounts then there is no hope for you 🤦‍♂️
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27079: Feb 22, 2021 08:55:11 pm
      And of course financial fraud on a much grander scal
      It’s not “gobbing off” as you put it, it’s what I see and believe. Same way the worlds richest people and corporations find ways of evading taxation on a massive scales, that makes the LFC accounts sheet look like pocket money. So to assume because something has been signed off as cochure, is pretty mad actually.

      Going round in circles with this debate, believe what you like and I’ll have my views on it and leave it at that.

      The parent company is registered in Delaware, so no need to "evade taxes".

      You can see how much UK taxation is paid, in the accounts.

      Oh, and how much isn't paid, hence the rolling loan.

      You say you "see and believe", so please direct me to the relevant page in the accounts that shows money being taken out.
      Thanks


      On a wider note, that's why this covid response is so fu**ed up: people think their beliefs carry more weight than facts.
      They don't.
      Facts are facts.
      MarkMitt
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27080: Feb 22, 2021 09:03:58 pm
      The parent company is registered in Delaware, so no need to "evade taxes".

      You can see how much UK taxation is paid, in the accounts.

      Oh, and how much isn't paid, hence the rolling loan.

      You say you "see and believe", so please direct me to the relevant page in the accounts that shows money being taken out.
      Thanks


      On a wider note, that's why this covid response is so fu**ed up: people think their beliefs carry more weight than facts.
      They don't.
      Facts are facts.

      Until such a time as proves otherwise...
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27081: Feb 23, 2021 12:14:27 pm
      Difference is at those times we were the dominant force in English football and kept things fresh. Slightly different scenario then as well. Don’t forget John Barnes was the first 10k a week player IIRC, which showed we were willing to pay out to stay ahead of the pack.



      And FSG sanctioned the purchase of VVD making him the most expensive defender in history. Clearly they do commit to spending if and when required.

      I get what you're saying about Matip's injury record, but having 3 senior fit CBs, with two under studies (plus 3rd understudy Sep Van den Berg out on loan) seemed like decent cover in the summer. I don't think they could have foreseen any of this. Hindsight is a great thing. I can perhaps understand the criticism of letting Lovren go, this was short sighted. I think he wanted to go though to get regular games.

      I think FSG are playing, and indeed they usually do, the long game. The three consecutive years of huge success clearly buys Klopp breathing space to have one off season. After three years of relentless pace, it's bound to catch up with the team and my guess is that FSG are willing to see how things are in summer with players coming back before assessing whether it's time to invest again. If the squad is in poor shape then I'm willing to bet that we would see 2 or 3 big signings in the summer - and you can quote me on that.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27082: Feb 23, 2021 02:06:30 pm
      Until such a time as proves otherwise...

      It's proven now.
      The accounts prove it, and all the bullshit in the world won't change that.

      Just because you don't understand this, doesn't make it any less true.
      MarkMitt
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27083: Feb 23, 2021 03:09:46 pm
      It's proven now.
      The accounts prove it, and all the bullshit in the world won't change that.

      Just because you don't understand this, doesn't make it any less true.

      Whatever you say...

      Arab Scouse
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27084: Feb 23, 2021 04:16:32 pm
      Stop talking out of your arse will you? JWH personal wealth has shot up massively. So like I said, does his profit come only from Red Sox or NASCAR, because according to you, he takes no money from LFC. Let’s face it, I’m sure accounts have NEVER been fabricated before have they?!

      By sound of it, you think he’s whiter than snow and sun shines out of his arse.


      You can't fabricate accounts and not get away with it. You get caught in a country like the UK

      Liverpool FC is not in some 3rd world country with poor governance.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27085: Feb 23, 2021 04:25:34 pm
      Until such a time as proves otherwise...


      the burden is on you to prove otherwise

      You claimed that FSG took money from LFC.

      back your claim and show us where and when they did it.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27086: Feb 23, 2021 05:19:46 pm

      Can you prove that the accounts are false and that the owners are taking money from the club ?
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27087: Feb 23, 2021 05:48:02 pm
      Can you prove that the accounts are false and that the owners are taking money from the club ?

      The owners are not taking money from LIVERPOOL FC, neither are they putting money into it.
      LFC are self-sustaining whether they head the league or not, thanks to their loyal support base.

      NESV are only too well aware of the fact and are grateful as the market value hits £2bn from a £4m input.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27088: Feb 23, 2021 05:53:08 pm
      The owners are not taking money from LIVERPOOL FC, neither are they putting money into it.
      LFC are self-sustaining whether they head the league or not, thanks to their loyal support base.

      NESV are only too well aware of the fact and are grateful as the market value hits £2bn from a £4m input.

      This is basically moaning that they've made us a success.

      Utterly mind boggling.
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27089: Feb 23, 2021 06:12:56 pm
      My head hurts reading this thread
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27090: Feb 23, 2021 06:19:41 pm
      The owners are not taking money from LIVERPOOL FC, neither are they putting money into it.
      LFC are self-sustaining whether they head the league or not, thanks to their loyal support base.

      NESV are only too well aware of the fact and are grateful as the market value hits £2bn from a £4m input.


      We all know it’s self sustaining, that’s nothing new

      Did they buy the club for £4mil 🤷‍♂️


      Market value irrelevant unless they are selling the club or a stake in the club
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27091: Feb 23, 2021 06:21:08 pm

      If the squad is in poor shape then I'm willing to bet that we would see 2 or 3 big signings in the summer - and you can quote me on that.

      You’re dreaming lad!!
      Why didn’t we build on our success last season after our unbelievable luck with injuries, that failure in not acquiring quality back up is wholly to blame for our predicament this season.

      Irrespective of Klopp’s loyalty he must have been aware of the situation and had reservations with the team’s strength in depth.

      The need for quality back up is now a major issue but like all problems if not addressed initially the implications are disastrously multiplied.

      Unless we sell an outstanding player the situation looks bleak for quality signings anytime soon.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27092: Feb 23, 2021 06:22:27 pm

      We all know it’s self sustaining, that’s nothing new

      Did they buy the club for £4mil 🤷‍♂️


      Market value irrelevant unless they are selling the club or a stake in the club

      Give your arse a chance ffs.

      Shabs
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27093: Feb 23, 2021 06:24:25 pm
      Are the owners taking a wage or dividend out the business..?
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27094: Feb 23, 2021 06:30:57 pm





      Did they buy the club for £4mil 🤷‍♂️

      Obviously a typo soft lad.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27095: Feb 23, 2021 06:33:28 pm
      Are the owners taking a wage or dividend out the business..?

      Only when they sell up.
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27096: Feb 23, 2021 06:43:52 pm

      So they buy the club, increase revenues, build new stands, new training facilities, increase the value of the playing squad.

      All while lifting the European Cup, Super Cup, Club World Cup and Premier League.

      The problem is what exactly?
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27097: Feb 23, 2021 06:45:01 pm
      Are the owners taking a wage or dividend out the business..?

      No
      MarkMitt
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27098: Feb 23, 2021 07:13:56 pm
      You can't fabricate accounts and not get away with it. You get caught in a country like the UK

      Liverpool FC is not in some 3rd world country with poor governance.

      Funny how the worlds richest people and corporations get away with fleecing the tax systems all over the world, but don’t let that fact stand in the way of your agenda...

      MarkMitt
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27099: Feb 23, 2021 07:18:17 pm
      Can you prove that the accounts are false and that the owners are taking money from the club ?

      Not at all and never said I could. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen though. Accounts  all over the world are falsified and taxation systems torn to shreds  by “loopholes” on behalf of the worlds richest people and corporations.

      I suppose that is fantasy too...

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