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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29150: Sep 06, 2021 01:11:24 pm
      I'd love to know how exactly we have been 'left in the wake of our rivals'?

      18/19
      European Cup Winners
      2nd Premier League with 97 points. Fourth highest points total in league history.

      19/20
      Premier League Champions.
      European Super Cup Winners
      World Club Cup Winners

      20/21
      3rd place Premier League.

      22/22
      Unbeaten so far and last league defeat 14 games ago. Current form averaging as a 97 point season.

      Where exactly are we being left in our rivals wake??

      If you are simply talking about how much they are spending on players then we never really have competed at that level and also I must have missed the trophy they give out for the biggest transfer spend.

      Pre-Klopp and failing to compete consistently with our rivals.
      We are not some 2nd rate outfit that is not worth backing why don’t the owners splash the cash OCCASIONALLY??
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29151: Sep 06, 2021 01:18:08 pm
      Pre-Klopp and failing to compete consistently with our rivals.
      We are not some 2nd rate outfit that is not worth backing why don’t the owners splash the cash OCCASIONALLY??

      Ah again you weren't clear.

      So just so I've got it we have been 'left in the wake of our rivals' before they appointed Jürgen?

      If that's the case I'm not sure the relevance as surely then we have progressed the club and caught up with said rivals??

      Unless you are suddenly changing the narrative again to suit the nonsense you're spouting?

      When you said about being left in the wake of our rivals I thought you meant now, or at least in the last few years not almost 6 years ago which I'm not sure is anyway relevant.
      « Last Edit: Sep 06, 2021 01:23:54 pm by srslfc »
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29152: Sep 06, 2021 02:12:48 pm
      Ah again you weren't clear.

      So just so I've got it we have been 'left in the wake of our rivals' before they appointed Jürgen?

      If that's the case I'm not sure the relevance as surely then we have progressed the club and caught up with said rivals??

      Unless you are suddenly changing the narrative again to suit the nonsense you're spouting?

      When you said about being left in the wake of our rivals I thought you meant now, or at least in the last few years not almost 6 years ago which I'm not sure is anyway relevant.

      We failed to hold on to the title last season, our luck with injuries ran out and a lack of quality back up kicked in, as is the case this season where no signings have been made.

      It’s plain as day the owner’s economic prudence is preventing the best manager in the world from realising his full potential, for the good of LFC the man would not agree but he will continue to do his utmost for the club.

      Our best before Klopp was 2nd, that is literally and factually in the wake of our rivals!
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29153: Sep 06, 2021 03:14:03 pm
      We failed to hold on to the title last season, our luck with injuries ran out and a lack of quality back up kicked in, as is the case this season where no signings have been made.

      It’s plain as day the owner’s economic prudence is preventing the best manager in the world from realising his full potential, for the good of LFC the man would not agree but he will continue to do his utmost for the club.

      Our best before Klopp was 2nd, that is literally and factually in the wake of our rivals!

      But we have made a signing, a signing in a position you are complaining didn't have enough quality last season.

      What you fail to acknwoledge is that there isn't a team in the league that would have coped with the CB injuries. No team has 6 first team, top quality CB's going into a season, yet that is what we needed last season. Can complain about a lack of signings, funds or whatever, but the fact doesn't change that unless we'd have had 6 first team quality CB's, we were always going to be up the creek.

      A team generally prepares with 4 CB's. We had 3 but Fab has played there before and has been training to play CB so that's essentially the 4 and under normal circumstances it would have been fine. We couldn't have accounted for losing the CB's, Fab, Hendo and Thiago pretty much all at the same time, whilst also having spells where Alisson was out too.

      The amount of injuries in set areas last season couldn't possibly have been predicted and unless we went into the season with a 35 man squad, it was always going to be near on impossible to retain the title.

      City struggled massively a couple of years ago when they lost Laporte. We lost an entire team of CB's, I don't think there is a team in the world that could possibly have handled the situation. The fact that we still came 3rd, 5 points behind 2nd is a testament to just how good this team is.

      « Last Edit: Sep 06, 2021 03:21:54 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29154: Sep 06, 2021 03:34:03 pm
      But we have made a signing, a signing in a position you are complaining didn't have enough quality last season.

      What you fail to acknwoledge is that there isn't a team in the league that would have coped with the CB injuries. No team has 6 first team, top quality CB's going into a season, yet that is what we needed last season. Can complain about a lack of signings, funds or whatever, but the fact doesn't change that unless we'd have had 6 first team quality CB's, we were always going to be up the creek.

      A team generally prepares with 4 CB's. We had 3 but Fab has played there before and has been training to play CB so that's essentially the 4 and under normal circumstances it would have been fine. We couldn't have accounted for losing the CB's, Fab, Hendo and Thiago pretty much all at the same time, whilst also having spells where Alisson was out too.

      The amount of injuries in set areas last season couldn't possibly have been predicted and unless we went into the season with a 35 man squad, it was always going to be near on impossible to retain the title.

      City struggled massively a couple of years ago when they lost Laporte. We lost an entire team of CB's, I don't think there is a team in the world that could possibly have handled the situation. The fact that we still came 3rd, 5 points behind 2nd is a testament to just how good this team is.
       

      The owner’s reluctance to part with the monies earned off the back of LFC cost us the title last season regardless of the massed numbers of stand ins you suggest were available.

      The same situation exists and hopefully the need for quality replacement will not derail this season’s campaign.

      « Last Edit: Sep 06, 2021 04:51:43 pm by stuey »
      Salah10
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29155: Sep 06, 2021 04:46:24 pm
      But we have made a signing, a signing in a position you are complaining didn't have enough quality last season.

      What you fail to acknwoledge is that there isn't a team in the league that would have coped with the CB injuries. No team has 6 first team, top quality CB's going into a season, yet that is what we needed last season. Can complain about a lack of signings, funds or whatever, but the fact doesn't change that unless we'd have had 6 first team quality CB's, we were always going to be up the creek.

      A team generally prepares with 4 CB's. We had 3 but Fab has played there before and has been training to play CB so that's essentially the 4 and under normal circumstances it would have been fine. We couldn't have accounted for losing the CB's, Fab, Hendo and Thiago pretty much all at the same time, whilst also having spells where Alisson was out too.

      The amount of injuries in set areas last season couldn't possibly have been predicted and unless we went into the season with a 35 man squad, it was always going to be near on impossible to retain the title.

      City struggled massively a couple of years ago when they lost Laporte. We lost an entire team of CB's, I don't think there is a team in the world that could possibly have handled the situation. The fact that we still came 3rd, 5 points behind 2nd is a testament to just how good this team is.

      What you're failing to aknowledge is the owners  put their faith in two injury prone centre backs. They knew Matip and Gomez's injury record. They knew we had to call in Lovren a few times because of the aboves poor fitness records. We  entered the season with three *quality* centrebacks.

      1. Virj
      2. Matip
      3. Gomez.

      Two of the three, based on previous records, were bound to get injured.

      We then had two young centrebacks in Nat and Rhys. Nat was on his way out and Rhys wasn't/isn't good enough.

      So the owners decided that three *quality* centre backs, of which two have disastrous injury records, was enough to defend our league title. Fabinho acting as fourth choice.

      Taking Fab out the middle was always going to be detrimental to our starting 11. Fab is a DM and one of the best in the world in that position.   

      The owners gambled and it fu**ed up big time. Why did they gamble? Because they refused to budge from their £35m net spend. Basically Jürgen you pick where you want to strengthen but this is all your getting. So the boss was left with square pegs for round holes again.

      Once again the boss had to put someone who could "do a job".

      We now have the same issue with attack!

      1. Salah
      2. Mane
      3. Bobby
      4. Jota
      5. Minamino
      6. Origi

      First four are quality (barring form etc) and then we have a MAJOR drop off in quality. They've basically done to attack what they done last year to defence. You'd have thought they'd learn their lesson.
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29156: Sep 06, 2021 05:58:05 pm
      What you're failing to aknowledge is the owners  put their faith in two injury prone centre backs. They knew Matip and Gomez's injury record. They knew we had to call in Lovren a few times because of the aboves poor fitness records. We  entered the season with three *quality* centrebacks.

      1. Virj
      2. Matip
      3. Gomez.

      Two of the three, based on previous records, were bound to get injured.

      We then had two young centrebacks in Nat and Rhys. Nat was on his way out and Rhys wasn't/isn't good enough.

      So the owners decided that three *quality* centre backs, of which two have disastrous injury records, was enough to defend our league title. Fabinho acting as fourth choice.

      Taking Fab out the middle was always going to be detrimental to our starting 11. Fab is a DM and one of the best in the world in that position.   

      The owners gambled and it fu**ed up big time. Why did they gamble? Because they refused to budge from their £35m net spend. Basically Jürgen you pick where you want to strengthen but this is all your getting. So the boss was left with square pegs for round holes again.

      Once again the boss had to put someone who could "do a job".

      We now have the same issue with attack!

      1. Salah
      2. Mane
      3. Bobby
      4. Jota
      5. Minamino
      6. Origi

      First four are quality (barring form etc) and then we have a MAJOR drop off in quality. They've basically done to attack what they done last year to defence. You'd have thought they'd learn their lesson.

      Is anyone's 5 choice attacker not a big drop off on quality?

      I think because of the mad injury crisis last season many people's thoughts on what constitutes a squad is way over normal expectations.

      We can only have 25 player's and to expect 5 or 6 of those to be attackers of the quality of Salah, Mane and Jota is simply not realistic.
      Salah10
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29157: Sep 06, 2021 07:45:30 pm
      Is anyone's 5 choice attacker not a big drop off on quality?

      I think because of the mad injury crisis last season many people's thoughts on what constitutes a squad is way over normal expectations.

      We can only have 25 player's and to expect 5 or 6 of those to be attackers of the quality of Salah, Mane and Jota is simply not realistic.

      I don't expect Salah quality right the way through. I do expect your Minaminos and Origis to be moved on and more capable forwards brought in.

      As you know we play with a front three which means we need more attackers than most especially when our midfield three are all utility men. Our midfield don't score goals. That means if one of our front three is having a mare we can bring on Jota but after that it's down to those three to score. One quality replacement for three positions isn't good enough idc.
      ed603em
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29158: Sep 06, 2021 09:04:25 pm
      Pre-Klopp and failing to compete consistently with our rivals.
      We are not some 2nd rate outfit that is not worth backing why don’t the owners splash the cash OCCASIONALLY??

      As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, we have the second-highest spend on player wages in the country. The owners do splash the cash. Why do you consistently fail to even acknowledge this point?
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29159: Sep 06, 2021 09:19:12 pm
      As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, we have the second-highest spend on player wages in the country. The owners do splash the cash. Why do you consistently fail to even acknowledge this point?

      How many times!!
      The owners have spent less than £400m acquiring the club, THAT IS THE SUM  TOTAL OF THEIR SPEND.

      FFS keep up.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29160: Sep 06, 2021 09:22:32 pm
      What you're failing to aknowledge is the owners  put their faith in two injury prone centre backs. They knew Matip and Gomez's injury record. They knew we had to call in Lovren a few times because of the aboves poor fitness records. We  entered the season with three *quality* centrebacks.

      1. Virj
      2. Matip
      3. Gomez.

      Two of the three, based on previous records, were bound to get injured.

      We then had two young centrebacks in Nat and Rhys. Nat was on his way out and Rhys wasn't/isn't good enough.

      So the owners decided that three *quality* centre backs, of which two have disastrous injury records, was enough to defend our league title. Fabinho acting as fourth choice.

      Taking Fab out the middle was always going to be detrimental to our starting 11. Fab is a DM and one of the best in the world in that position.   

      The owners gambled and it fu**ed up big time. Why did they gamble? Because they refused to budge from their £35m net spend. Basically Jürgen you pick where you want to strengthen but this is all your getting. So the boss was left with square pegs for round holes again.

      Once again the boss had to put someone who could "do a job".

      We now have the same issue with attack!

      1. Salah
      2. Mane
      3. Bobby
      4. Jota
      5. Minamino
      6. Origi

      First four are quality (barring form etc) and then we have a MAJOR drop off in quality. They've basically done to attack what they done last year to defence. You'd have thought they'd learn their lesson.

      Didn’t need to acknowledge it to be honest mate, we all knew the situation regarding the fitness of Gomez and Matip. Additionally, Lovren, the 4th choice CB was also injury prone so if anything, by having the 4th choice become Fab, it was actually hopefully bringing more stability to the position in terms of availability.

      Personally I do think it was a mistake not getting a Lovren replacement but at the same time, I wasn’t particularly bothered at the time that we didn’t because Fab had played that role for us a few times, most notably in a dominant performance vs Bayern who are no pushovers. Then just before the injuries really took hold of our season, Fab partnered Virgil in a comfortable 2-0 win vs the Chavs where Fab looked a natural once again. Obviously take Virgil away and Fab wasn’t quite showing the same level of composure at CB but I don’t think even the most skeptical of people would ever have suggested a scenario where Virgil, Matip and Gomez all picked up season ending injuries roughly around the same time…it’s a crazy scenario when you think about it. I can’t remember a time where we have been decimated in one position to such an extent. And that is before you include the big injuries to Fab, Thiago and Hendo.

      You make a fair point about being weaker without Fab in the midfield, but Hendo showed the season before how effective he can be in that position so I don’t really view that as a concern.

      My biggest issue isn’t with the lack of reinforcements to the position in the summer, for the reasons I’ve already stated. I have more of an issue with our failure to do so in January. We came into the New Year top of the league, that was the time to reinforce and get stability back within the defence. Obviously it soon spiralled and we essentially lost all control, getting beat game after the game for 6 weeks or whatever it was. Waiting until Jan 31st to bring in 2 players, 1 of which didn’t even make an appearance was where the biggest failings were IMO.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29161: Sep 06, 2021 10:12:09 pm

      The owners have spent less than £400m acquiring the club, THAT IS THE SUM  TOTAL OF THEIR SPEND.



      No it's not

      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29162: Sep 06, 2021 10:33:14 pm

       Give me actual proof of FSG parting with their own money for the benefit of LFC.
      Loans to the club of course are not included.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29163: Sep 06, 2021 11:44:02 pm
      What you're failing to aknowledge is the owners  put their faith in two injury prone centre backs. They knew Matip and Gomez's injury record. They knew we had to call in Lovren a few times because of the aboves poor fitness records. We  entered the season with three *quality* centrebacks.

      1. Virj
      2. Matip
      3. Gomez.

      Two of the three, based on previous records, were bound to get injured.

      We then had two young centrebacks in Nat and Rhys. Nat was on his way out and Rhys wasn't/isn't good enough.

      So the owners decided that three *quality* centre backs, of which two have disastrous injury records, was enough to defend our league title. Fabinho acting as fourth choice.

      Taking Fab out the middle was always going to be detrimental to our starting 11. Fab is a DM and one of the best in the world in that position.   

      The owners gambled and it fu**ed up big time. Why did they gamble? Because they refused to budge from their £35m net spend. Basically Jürgen you pick where you want to strengthen but this is all your getting. So the boss was left with square pegs for round holes again.

      Once again the boss had to put someone who could "do a job".

      We now have the same issue with attack!

      1. Salah
      2. Mane
      3. Bobby
      4. Jota
      5. Minamino
      6. Origi

      First four are quality (barring form etc) and then we have a MAJOR drop off in quality. They've basically done to attack what they done last year to defence. You'd have thought they'd learn their lesson.

      The owners didn’t decide all that

      Edwards and Klopp did - why would you think the owners make decisions on players arriving or leaving ?


      And the season we won the league Gomez played 43 games in total throughout the whole season

      Gomez suffered two injuries very early on and then got an impact injury - in three seasons he missed 23 games and that was one injury
      Shabs
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29164: Sep 07, 2021 12:59:43 am
      She’s on point…👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼


      https://twitter.com/theanfieldtalk/status/1434933782537195520?s=21
      « Last Edit: Sep 07, 2021 01:09:35 am by Shabs »
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29165: Sep 07, 2021 05:10:39 am
      Give me actual proof of FSG parting with their own money for the benefit of LFC.
      Loans to the club of course are not included.

      Is that all it always boils down to with you? I and many others have pointed out the improvements in every area of the club under the current ownership, on and off the pitch,  that just seem to be ignored.

      Also most on here complain about the way other clubs have achieved success, be it breaking FFP, creative accounting in regards to sponsorship, the morals or otherwise of the owners of certain clubs etc etc.

      I'd much rather have the way this lot do it. As I've said numerous times they have made mistakes, have done things that they should have known wouldn't sit well with us but when you boil it down you only have to look at where we were when they took over to where we are now to see the difference.

      If you, or anyone can't, then you're either being pig ignorant or just plain thick.

      A small thing but this thread is a window into where we were to where we sit now.

      https://twitter.com/ScouseSocialism/status/1435009338679173125?s=19
      ruthcity
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29166: Sep 07, 2021 08:23:13 am
      The owners didn’t decide all that

      Edwards and Klopp did - why would you think the owners make decisions on players arriving or leaving ?

      Because first, the grumble is on the owners not taking out their own money to buy players. It’s reasonable that if someone like Roman pays for players, he could pick whoever he likes regardless of the transfer team.

      Flip this around. But this isn’t the owners’ own money, but funds available at the club. Objectively, whatever transfer fund is available at the club, the transfer team has the right to decide its use.

      People still think that if the owners can stop additional funding, they too are stopping the transfer team from operating. It’s a bit over the top. I’d say this without of thinking through, if I want to pin down FSG. It’s either a convenient statement or I’m ignorant, lazy and uninformed.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29167: Sep 07, 2021 10:03:58 am
      Is that all it always boils down to with you? I and many others have pointed out the improvements in every area of the club under the current ownership, on and off the pitch,  that just seem to be ignored.

      Also most on here complain about the way other clubs have achieved success, be it breaking FFP, creative accounting in regards to sponsorship, the morals or otherwise of the owners of certain clubs etc etc.

      I'd much rather have the way this lot do it. As I've said numerous times they have made mistakes, have done things that they should have known wouldn't sit well with us but when you boil it down you only have to look at where we were when they took over to where we are now to see the difference.

      If you, or anyone can't, then you're either being pig ignorant or just plain thick.

      A small thing but this thread is a window into where we were to where we sit now.

      https://twitter.com/ScouseSocialism/status/1435009338679173125?s=19

      Proof of them actually putting their own money into the club is what was requested from some bullshitter who reckons FSG financed the club, stiill no proof just waffle.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29168: Sep 07, 2021 10:10:40 am
      Proof of them actually putting their own money into the club is what was requested from some bullshitter who reckons FSG financed the club, stiill no proof just waffle.

      Any yearly profits/gains reinvested in the club is a sign of the owners putting money back into the club.

      So far they have not taken out any and reinvested all their club earnings back into Liverpool.

      It's not BS, you just don't understand how things work.
      ruthcity
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29169: Sep 07, 2021 10:17:54 am
      Any yearly profits/gains reinvested in the club is a sign of the owners putting money back into the club.

      So far they have not taken out any and reinvested all their club earnings back into Liverpool.

      It's not BS, you just don't understand how things work.

      Apparently reinvested earnings is not enough to keep up with the way other teams are reinforcing their squads… and only owners’ cash equity injection is the only way we can strengthen our squad? And the more cash equity injection the higher the correlation to our squad getting stronger, leading to a higher probability of updating the numbers on the champions wall?

      But hell we updated the champions wall without the above and we are still insecure. Very much insecure.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29170: Sep 07, 2021 10:26:26 am
      Apparently reinvested earnings is not enough to keep up with the way other teams are reinforcing their squads… and only owners’ cash equity injection is the only way we can strengthen our squad? And the more cash equity injection the higher the correlation to our squad getting stronger, leading to a higher probability of updating the numbers on the champions wall?

      But hell we updated the champions wall without the above and we are still insecure. Very much insecure.

      Cash/equity injection comes at a huge price though.

      People think that equity injection is easy, but it's not. It means higher costs to the club.

      Man City does it through inflated sponsorship deals that FFP doesn't even look at. Chelsea and Man Utd do it through huge amount of debt. What happens when for example Abramovich decides to pull the plug on Chelsea? The club would owe him big time.

      I prefer the sustainable way. Increase your earnings by increasing your revenues and build long term. This way when FSG decides to move on and sell we would still be in a very good financial position.

      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29171: Sep 07, 2021 10:27:32 am
      Proof of them actually putting their own money into the club is what was requested from some bullshitter who reckons FSG financed the club, stiill no proof just waffle.

      I'm pretty sure no one on here ever said they 'financed the club' whatever that actually means.

      They haven't put their 'own money' in either but were crystal clear about that from day one so not sure why you're still on that little hobby horse?

      By any available measure if you look at this football club on the day they bought it and then look now the club has grown.

      Trophies. Yes
      Stadium. Yes
      Playing squad. Yes
      Training facilities. Yes
      Commercial Revenue. Yes

      I'll ask again, although doubt I'll get a grown up sensible answer, if all the above has happened, and it very much has, does it matter that it happened organically and without the ownership plowing their money in or leveraging debt in the club?
      « Last Edit: Sep 07, 2021 10:54:43 am by srslfc »
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29172: Sep 07, 2021 10:46:47 am
      I'm pretty sure no one in here ever said they 'financed the club' whatever that actually means.

      They haven't put their 'own money' in either but we're crystal clear about that from day one so not sure why you're still on that little hobby horse?

      By any available measure if you look at this football club in the day they bought it and then look now the club's has grown.

      Trophies. Yes
      Stadium. Yes
      Playing squad. Yes
      Training facilities. Yes
      Commercial Revenue. Yes

      I'll ask again, although doubt I'll get a grown up sensible answer, if all the above has happened, and it very much has, does it matter that it happened organically and without the ownership plowing their money in or leveraging debt in the club?

      They invest zero, they are speculators/market players and cream profits eventually.
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29173: Sep 07, 2021 10:49:03 am
      They invest zero, they are speculators/market players and cream profits eventually.


      Would be easier talking to my dog.

      I've said it before but I think I'm done.
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 34,561 posts | 3543 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29174: Sep 07, 2021 10:55:30 am
      Would be easier talking to my dog.

      I've said it before but I think I'm done.

      You've said that before as well!
      You can't win this one Si because the basis of your defence is shot.

      Our owners are speculators here for the short term to milk the asset.
      « Last Edit: Sep 07, 2021 11:25:37 am by stuey »

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