Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 28th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P26 W11 D3 L12

      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

      Read 2643034 times
      0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.
      s@int
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,987 posts | 2282 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2737: Feb 15, 2012 10:57:24 am
      I am still unsure about FSG. For me they still have a lot to prove, but I am happy to wait and see at the moment. I would have liked to see a little more money pumped into the squad, the new stadium build started and maybe a little more support for Kenny  in recent times. However we have no debt, they haven't taken money out of the club and seem to be making the right noises about the new stadium.

      As the devil Purslow said in his infamous e-mail :- "To get it straight, I think we should avoid the natural temptation to jump straight in to the deal with NESV. Whilst they are charming, intelligent and credible their bid is by any standards at the extreme bottom end of the 'right deal' threshold we set for ourselves: it only reduces debt by less than half and is I feel unlikely to yield incremental equity to fund a stadium.

      "They may say they have money if necessary but I do not take this very seriously. Their eyes only lit up at the idea of other opportunity improvements. An American deal guy simply can't avoid using other people's money if they can.

      "There is no extra money on the table to enable short-term investment in what remains a squad palpably needing more quality if we are to be definitively top four. New American sport team owners with the senior guy being a hedge fund manager could not be worst [sic] from an image standpoint, which is an issue for us independents. I have not even talked about valuation. I leave that to other members of the board. So what is positive? Answer, they exist. Which is not a lot, but it is not to be underestimated in importance."


      I want to believe in our new owners, but fool me once shame on you, fool me twice......? So I will just wait and see.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2738: Feb 15, 2012 10:59:43 am
      I'll be honest, the whole concept of "net spend" gets on my tits, and while one may argue it doesn't lie, its also pretty misconceiving.


      This.

      Do we think had the previous owners sold Torres for 50m we would have seen it re-invested?
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2739: Feb 15, 2012 11:05:53 am
      Net spend is paramount lets not try and dress it up any other way.

      We used net Spend to defend Rafa at all costs so we can't change that now just to suit arguments.

      FSG are good owners, they've just made a monumental F**k up in the handling of the Suarez affair, but its their first stint of dealing with such an episode in the English Media where its ten times worse and ten times more verocious than it is in the states, they will learn from this.

      So lets move on as until this incident most were content with their ownership.

      Lets see where we are in 3 or 4 years under their stewardship other than 18 months down line.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,581 posts | 3826 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2740: Feb 15, 2012 11:36:50 am
      Net spend is paramount lets not try and dress it up any other way.

      We used net Spend to defend Rafa at all costs so we can't change that now just to suit arguments.

      FSG are good owners, they've just made a monumental F**k up in the handling of the Suarez affair, but its their first stint of dealing with such an episode in the English Media where its ten times worse and ten times more verocious than it is in the states, they will learn from this.

      So lets move on as until this incident most were content with their ownership.

      Lets see where we are in 3 or 4 years under their stewardship other than 18 months down line.

      Net spend is fine.
      We need a net spend if we are to progress as a club.
      Otherwise we will stand still as the likes of Manchester City and Tottenham overtake us.

      That is what happened under h&g.
      Stripping of assets like Alonso and Keane (Financial asset in the latter) and not replacing them,
      while at the time City and Spurs started to invest in the squads.

      So to level a net spend analysis at our previous owners is understandable.
      What I don't understand is how, when we didn't use the wage bill as an argument before, we
      are using the wage bill as an argument now. Smacks of double accounting to me.

      Also we must factor in the players that have left.
      I would have understood the argument if we leveled it upon losing the likes of Alonso,
      but to use it when we have offloaded the likes of Cole, Poulson, Konchelsky, Ngog, Insua, Jovanovic...
      Madness.

      The damage was done in
      08/09 £6,250,000
      09/10 -£8,650,000
      10/11 -£5,150,000   

      In the summer we had a net spend of £35,350,000.

      To suggest three seasons of damage can be repaired in one go is insane.   
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2741: Feb 15, 2012 11:39:49 am
      To suggest three seasons of damage can be repaired in one go is insane.

      Exactly mate, it took City a good 3 years to start making a serious impression and lets be honest we have a better platform to build on than what they did.
      waltonl4
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 37,585 posts | 7139 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2742: Feb 15, 2012 11:41:09 am
      we don thave a squad to match City,UTD or even Spurs so what doe sthat mean that with our present rate of player investment the best we can hope for is a top 4 place ?.
      I don't see anything to suggest we are going to invest money at the required level and we are as we have been for the past 20 years 4 players of sufficient quality to win the league.Our best X1 is good but if you take out 1 or 2 key players we look weak.
      The Cup comps are our only real opportunity unless the fair play rules are strictly adhered to which may take upto 10 years to properly enforce.
      This is not meant to be a dig at the owners or in any way negative towards them but the way I see our immediate future.Enjoy Wembley and enjoy every bit of success we can achieve.
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2743: Feb 15, 2012 11:43:03 am
      Exactly mate, it took City a good 3 years to start making a serious impression and lets be honest we have a better platform to build on than what they did.

      Apart from the stadium, exactly right.
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2744: Feb 15, 2012 11:44:48 am
      I agree with blood i hope people saying net spend doesn't matter weren't using it to defend Rafa
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,581 posts | 3826 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2745: Feb 15, 2012 11:45:44 am
      City's spend in the same time.
      To show their rise as we slid.

      08/09 £117,900,000
      09/10 £99,000,000
      10/11 £126,500,000
      11/12 £48,250,000
      Keith Singleton
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 16,662 posts | 2656 
      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2746: Feb 15, 2012 11:48:08 am
      I think some of you lads need to give the owners a break. From a neutral point of view they haven't done bad. It could be worse! you could still have the old owners here.  ;)
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2747: Feb 15, 2012 11:53:10 am
      I don't see anything to suggest we are going to invest money at the required level and we are as we have been for the past 20 years 4 players of sufficient quality to win the league.Our best X1 is good but if you take out 1 or 2 key players we look weak.

      I don't know mate, they said they would make what ever money the club generates available, so taking that into consideration we've cut £30m from teh wage bill this year, so that should be available, we have the standard chartered money, that should be available, then what ever other sponsorships endorsements, left over gate etc etc should be available.

      We may see another big splurge this summer with only some of our more senior aging players such as Aurelio and Maxi leaving.

      Its not beyond the realms of possibility, that now we've got the English spine to our squad, we'll be topped up with quality imports in key areas to help us make the next progressive leap.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,581 posts | 3826 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2748: Feb 15, 2012 11:57:50 am
      Against that:
      Arsenal hardly ever have positive net spend and United haven't even spent all the Ronaldo money.

      Interesting to see Spurs net spend for this year.
      Shows that if you buy the right players you don't need to blow millions.
      That or they've got a problem next year when Adebayor is gone, Parker's knees go and Friedel nears the end of his career.

      Season 11/12 -£27,000,000
      bad boy bubby
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 14,564 posts | 3172 
      • @KaiserQueef
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2749: Feb 15, 2012 12:27:40 pm
      Net spend is paramount lets not try and dress it up any other way.

      We used net Spend to defend Rafa at all costs so we can't change that now just to suit arguments.

      Of course net spend is relevant Blood but whether we like it or not there are very real, very clear and very different causes behind "low" net spend. These 'causes' are fact mate not an attempt to dress anything up. In fact the real dressing up of net spend only comes when one choses to ignore them. Which, to be fair, you haven't.

      Spot the difference folks:

      * Net spend under Hicks & Gillett (in both the Rafa and Hodgson eras) was "low" only because we sold quality players, at a high price, replacing them with players of lower cost - with the rest going to pay down debt. That's fact.

      * Net spend under F.S.G. is "low" only because we got rid of a sh*t load of deadwood and players who wanted to play elsewhere. We replaced them with players who were of a high quality and high price - none of the profits disappeared to pay off debt. That's fact too.

      When we look at 'net spend' in a logical, honest, manner we can see that only the slowest among us won't see there is a massive difference in the causes of "low" 'net spend'. The fact that those with an agenda against F.S.G. won't admit to there being a difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

      The reasons behind "low" net 'spend' matter more that the 'spend' it's self. Surely we're all intelligent enough to accept that?

      I guess now that we've debated the 'arguments' against F.S.G. and exposed the hyperbole it'll be time to move on.  ;)
      « Last Edit: Feb 15, 2012 12:43:21 pm by bad boy bubby »
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2750: Feb 15, 2012 12:30:14 pm
      I personally never said we had bad owners just dont think they have the finance to get us back challenging for titles. Like arsenal i think we will be a well run business but like arsenal i dont expect us to be competing for titles. Personally i think for their plan to work spend what we make we needed a serious investment from them on the playing side something we have yet to see

      I think the city comparsion is a poor one as well our owners are not prepared to spend what Citys owners are so unlike city we are not able to make the same mistakes in the transfer market something we did last summer. This summer will tell us a lot about Fsg

      That is my final say on the matter for now I'll let others debate how negative i am to make themselves feel better.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,581 posts | 3826 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2751: Feb 15, 2012 12:49:52 pm
      I personally never said we had bad owners just dont think they have the finance to get us back challenging for titles. Like arsenal i think we will be a well run business but like arsenal i dont expect us to be competing for titles. Personally i think for their plan to work spend what we make we needed a serious investment from them on the playing side something we have yet to see

      I think the city comparsion is a poor one as well our owners are not prepared to spend what Citys owners are so unlike city we are not able to make the same mistakes in the transfer market something we did last summer. This summer will tell us a lot about Fsg

      That is my final say on the matter for now I'll let others debate how negative i am to make themselves feel better.

      The City comparison was to show our owners draining money from the club couldn't have come at a worse time.
      That is all.

      We all know that we won't see that level of investment, but at a time when we started to make profits in the transfer market
      Manchester City were investing hundreds of millions.
      Is it any wonder we have dropped to fighting for 4th in such a small matter of time.
      crouchinho
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 42,508 posts | 2620 
      • TU TA LOUCO? FILHO DA PUTA!
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2752: Feb 15, 2012 01:39:45 pm
      I agree with blood i hope people saying net spend doesn't matter weren't using it to defend Rafa

      So argue the other points instead of one liners consisting of bland arguments and repetitive drivel.

      Your point consists of;

      - Net spend

      - Lack of news about a stadium

      - Cost cutting in terms of reducing the wage bill

      These points have been debated and yet you incessantly rehash them in your posts without a peep of discussion to go along with them. If you feel so strongly about these issues, explain why and highlight how the owners could of done a better job instead of just mentioning your concerns without reasoning.

      A dogs bark never changes.
      Eddieo
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,705 posts | 158 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2753: Feb 15, 2012 02:36:22 pm
      Of course net spend is relevant Blood but whether we like it or not there are very real, very clear and very different causes behind "low" net spend. These 'causes' are fact mate not an attempt to dress anything up. In fact the real dressing up of net spend only comes when one choses to ignore them. Which, to be fair, you haven't.

      Spot the difference folks:

      * Net spend under Hicks & Gillett (in both the Rafa and Hodgson eras) was "low" only because we sold quality players, at a high price, replacing them with players of lower cost - with the rest going to pay down debt. That's fact.

      * Net spend under F.S.G. is "low" only because we got rid of a sh*t load of deadwood and players who wanted to play elsewhere. We replaced them with players who were of a high quality and high price - none of the profits disappeared to pay off debt. That's fact too.

      When we look at 'net spend' in a logical, honest, manner we can see that only the slowest among us won't see there is a massive difference in the causes of "low" 'net spend'. The fact that those with an agenda against F.S.G. won't admit to there being a difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

      The reasons behind "low" net 'spend' matter more that the 'spend' it's self. Surely we're all intelligent enough to accept that?

      I guess now that we've debated the 'arguments' against F.S.G. and exposed the hyperbole it'll be time to move on.  ;)
      Have to say you make a very good point
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2754: Feb 15, 2012 02:55:48 pm
      Ive actually given my points for everyone of the points and a look above will show that I havent just mentioned cost cutting stadium and net spend crouch like your trying to portray. I understand my views may upset some people because i dont buy into the we have brilliant owners argument. I tend to need to see evidence for this.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,581 posts | 3826 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2755: Feb 15, 2012 02:57:07 pm
      Ive actually given my points for everyone of the points and a look above will show that I havent just mentioned cost cutting stadium and net spend crouch like your trying to portray. I understand my views may upset some people because i dont buy into the we have brilliant owners argument. I tend to need to see evidence for this.

      The only problem with the arguments in this case is it is difficult to argue a policy based on long term gains when judged in the short term.
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2756: Feb 15, 2012 03:02:39 pm
      See im giving facts people are countering it with assumptions.  I need to see facts and evidence before i start backing people.  Ive learned a lot from the last owners.  Action not talk is what i want to see.
      Roddenberry
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 16,568 posts | 1876 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2757: Feb 15, 2012 03:04:38 pm
      Exactly mate, it took City a good 3 years to start making a serious impression and lets be honest we have a better platform to build on than what they did.

      Some people are just so impatient and want it now or it's not good enough.  Work in progress and this thread has been dragged down by an unwarranted, at present, wave of pessimism.
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2758: Feb 15, 2012 03:14:08 pm
      Brought on by the Suarez debacle. Maybe its unwarranted from your part. I prefer to look at facts rather then make assumptions everything is great. Know what will shut me up announcements on the stadium or Fsg funding the signing of some top players in the summer.
      shabbadoo
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 29,420 posts | 4581 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #2759: Feb 15, 2012 03:15:37 pm
      The platform for success has always been hear since Houllier & Rafa were in charge and even back to kenny's first stint however we have failed to to address the commercial side of the business which in turn reflected on the pitch.

      FSG have invested in january with the high profile sales and investments which are clear to see but our investements just have not gone to plan,if players like henderson & carroll hit the ground running and not so many draws to lesser opponents at home we could well be in a very comfortable position.

      I would say we are 2-3 players from being wher we want to be and that is back on our perch and we do have the owners playing staff and most important ingredient which is kenny,we sit 4 points from 4th which aint bad considering the results and luck we have had & not to mention the media circus to put up with.

      Roll on wembley.

      Quick Reply