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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21712: Feb 11, 2017 01:05:17 pm
      Any one, and I mean ANY ONE that uses an account there is some creative book keeping going on somewhere, why else do you get and accountant?..

      Wrong.
      There are tax avoidance vehicles that can legally be used, but accounts are subject to a very stringent process.

      Why don't you go to the accounts and provide proof of your assertions.
      If you can even read them, which I doubt.
      Kopite78
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21713: Feb 11, 2017 01:08:45 pm
      Any one, and I mean ANY ONE that uses an account there is some creative book keeping going on somewhere, why else do you get and accountant?..

      I would highly doubt that they would risk playing at creative accountancy with the high profile and public nature of premier league football

      All it shows me is where there priorities are

      We are excellently run as a business nowadays under these

      On the pitch though?  Bang average

      Here to win? Of course

      Even the Anfield Rd end doesn't make business sense so it won't be done
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21714: Feb 11, 2017 01:29:04 pm
      You clearly don't know how accounts work in this country.

      We've had this before, with the "2 sets of books" conspiracy theory.
      It's just not possible to take money out of the club without accounting for it, and the accounts are online for all to see.

      So, I tell you what, you go and look at the accounts and show everyone where the money has been taken out, and the vehicle they used to do it. You're the one coming out with this sh*te, so the burden of proof is on you.

      And no, I don't fiddle my books, because that would land me, and my accountant in prison the first time HMRC wanted to have a look. (It's called an audit).
      Even if I wanted to fiddle my books, by law my accountant has to report it, or he faces charges as an accessory.
      Where in the above post did I state they actually took money out perhaps your not as good at reading as you profess , I just asked where it was you clearly state they haven't taken any so I merely suggested it must be in some big pot because we haven't spent any ,
      As for the accounts I call it bullshit and you a proper bullshitter , or are you the first businessman ever to be 100% transparent. You just don't think anyone else can have a point of view unless it's your point of view no wish to carry this on as  I'm off out for the day I'll do a little poll when I'm out as I know quite a lot of self employed businessmen , see what they think of your whiter than white accounting have a good day fella your fckin delusional.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21715: Feb 11, 2017 01:42:12 pm
      Where in the above post did I state they actually took money out perhaps your not as good at reading as you profess , I just asked where it was you clearly state they haven't taken any so I merely suggested it must be in some big pot because we haven't spent any ,
      As for the accounts I call it bullshit and you a proper bullshitter , or are you the first businessman ever to be 100% transparent. You just don't think anyone else can have a point of view unless it's your point of view no wish to carry this on as  I'm off out for the day I'll do a little poll when I'm out as I know quite a lot of self employed businessmen , see what they think of your whiter than white accounting have a good day fella your fckin delusional.

      Off you pop precious.
      Try and educate yourself while you're out, and understand the difference between cooking your books and using legal tax avoidance vehicles.

      Or just have another tantrum, which you do every time you're proven wrong.
      RedWilly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21716: Feb 11, 2017 02:17:05 pm
      Have to agree with Swab here. This isn't some small time corner shops accounts we are talking about here.

      They are prepared by one of the biggest accounting firms in the world and subject to audit. The whole point of an audit is to provide a degree of certainty that nothing untoward is going on.

      It's practically impossible to cook the books to hide money going out the club when they could just declare a dividend and show it in the accounts. Having some bad publicity is a much better option than breaking the law and facing jail time.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21717: Feb 11, 2017 02:22:18 pm
      Have to agree with Swab here. This isn't some small time corner shops accounts we are talking about here.

      They are prepared by one of the biggest accounting firms in the world and subject to audit. The whole point of an audit is to provide a degree of certainty that nothing untoward is going on.

      It's practically impossible to cook the books to hide money going out the club when they could just declare a dividend and show it in the accounts. Having some bad publicity is a much better option than breaking the law and facing jail time.

      Exactly.
      We're not talking about some bloke in a cash rich business skimming a few quid off the top.

      Not to mention that KPMG would immediately report any discrepancies that looked even remotely illegal, because they have a reputation to maintain as well.
      Besides which, skimming is stupid when there are a shitload of tax avoidance vehicles that can be used, which are perfectly legal (although immoral imo )
      RedPuppy
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21718: Feb 11, 2017 02:42:51 pm
      Any one, and I mean ANY ONE that uses an account there is some creative book keeping going on somewhere, why else do you get and accountant?..

      To make sure you don't F**k up, and have the tax man knocking at your door.

      Obviously you know your own tricks best, plus are you saying FSG are up to tax evasion, because that's what sounds like.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21719: Feb 11, 2017 02:46:18 pm
      To make sure you don't F**k up, and have the tax man knocking at your door.

      Obviously you know your own tricks best, plus are you saying FSG are up to tax evasion, because that's what sounds like.

      Not to mention the fact that once the Taxman finds something wrong, he'll sink his teeth in and never let go.
      They'll go over everything and even go back 7 years.

      On the scale that FSG operate, you're looking at serious jail time.

      As far as tax avoidance goes (rather than evasion) KPMG have plenty of form for that.
      They send senior staff to "advise" HMRC about avoidance vehicles, then use them themselves.
      I find it distasteful that already rich companies choose to avoid tax as much as possible, and I would hope FSG are not doing that, although being registered in Delaware doesn't fill me with confidence.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21720: Feb 11, 2017 02:55:43 pm
      Wrong.
      There are tax avoidance vehicles that can legally be used, but accounts are subject to a very stringent process.

      Why don't you go to the accounts and provide proof of your assertions.
      If you can even read them, which I doubt.

      I will repeat what i have stated and Clarify it for you as It seem you are struggling to get the point...

      "Any one, and I mean ANY ONE that uses an account there is some creative book keeping going on somewhere, why else do you get and accountant?.."

      Now I don't care if there are tax avoidance vehicles that can legally be used  the fact that they are Legally do not make them morally...You can marry and have sex with a 13 year old in parts for Europe and the Far East In Angola, the age of consent is just 12. Now they may all be Legally but It is deemed far from being Morally

      If you are on PAYE, and receive £150,000 p.a. you are told by the taxman how much you are expected to pay in taxes, With an Accountant you have loop holes were you can avoid tax...

      Now do you truly believe that there are no "tax avoidance" (Sarcasm in case you are not sure) going on?..
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21721: Feb 11, 2017 03:03:42 pm
      I will repeat what i have stated and Clarify it for you as It seem you are struggling to get the point...

      "Any one, and I mean ANY ONE that uses an account there is some creative book keeping going on somewhere, why else do you get and accountant?.."

      Now I don't care if there are tax avoidance vehicles that can legally be used  the fact that they are Legally do not make them morally...You can marry and have sex with a 13 year old in parts for Europe and the Far East In Angola, the age of consent is just 12. Now they may all be Legally but It is deemed far from being Morally

      If you are on PAYE, and receive £150,000 p.a. you are told by the taxman how much you are expected to pay in taxes, With an Accountant you have loop holes were you can avoid tax...

      Now do you truly believe that there are no "tax avoidance" (Sarcasm in case you are not sure) going on?..

       :lmao:

      F**k off somewhere else with your nonsense fella.

      PAYE is taken out at source before you even get your wages, hence the name PAY AS YOU EARN.

      I'm laughing my arse off at this daft sod.  :lmao:

      Not even a good WUM are you.    :lmao:
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21722: Feb 11, 2017 03:10:12 pm
      Kopite78 & RedWilly

      I have  Three words to say The Enron scandal Enron were way larger than NESV/Fenway Sports Group so to say that Tax Fraud could not happen at Liverpool FC is somewhat  naive
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21723: Feb 11, 2017 03:16:36 pm
      :lmao:

      F**k off somewhere else with your nonsense fella.

      PAYE is taken out at source before you even get your wages, hence the name PAY AS YOU EARN.

      LOOK AGAIN I believe that is what I stated.... You need to go to Specsavers

      WELL THIS IS MY LAST REPLY TO YOU BECAUSE YOU FAIL TO SEE THE POINTS OTHERS ARE MAKING AND IT IS JUST LIKE ME DOING THIS  :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21724: Feb 11, 2017 03:24:14 pm
      Look, when you have a business you can live off the expenses claim especially in a big concern like a football club so no need to avoid tax etc. My business was small fry compared but the business paid for my car plus then paid for insurance, tax, repairs etc.. I used the business credit card to go on holidays abroad, hotel breaks at weekends, restaurants, you name it, only thing I paid out of my income was the mortgage and groceries, now multiply those things on a grand scale of a business turning over millions each year (my business only turned over 1 and a half million). You can have a great time  ;)

      Not really mate.
      You can claim exes, but the rules are pretty strict these days, and if you get caught, you're fu**ed.
      Sure you can call your car a "company car" etc, but it's small fry for these fella's.
      Then of course, there's the dreaded audit. KPMG do their own audits, as well as HMRC doing audits on LFC.

      Besides, old WUM up there has tied himself in knots saying one thing then another.
      He's trying to construct some strange narrative and failing miserably because he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

      I can't for the life of me understand why a (dollar) billionaire would want to take the chance of fiddling exes.
      The parent company based in Delaware is almost certainly paying very low tax, but LFC is still subject to UK tax, although previously, profit has been set aside to offset future losses, which is a perfectly legal and encouraged way of doing things.
      It was still right there in the accounts though, plain as day.

      Although to be fair, old WUM up there started off talking about fiddling the books and got so confused he's now on to tax avoidance.
      My point is, and remains, that for an organisation our size, it's almost impossible to cook the books, skim off the top etc
      We had this a while back where some fuckwit insisted they kept 2 sets of "books" like it was an old mafia movie  :lmao:
      RedWilly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21725: Feb 11, 2017 03:31:56 pm
      Kopite78 & RedWilly

      I have  Three words to say The Enron scandal Enron were way larger than NESV/Fenway Sports Group so to say that Tax Fraud could not happen at Liverpool FC is somewhat  naive

      I don't think you even know what you are arguing for now. You've gone from saying FSG are taking money out the club to conducting fraud on a massive scale because....Enron?

      I'm not going to get dragged into this because it will go round in circles but as an aside the Sarbanes Oxley act was brought as a result of Enron and which FSG will have to follow with the parent company being based in the States (or I'm asssuming they are based in the States).

      Fraud obviously can happen and is probably occurring right now at some major companies...but you have absolutely no evidence that it is. Maybe give the FBI a call and let them know that you think FSG are committing fraud based on the fact that Enron once did.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21726: Feb 11, 2017 03:33:12 pm
      The tax system in the UK favours big corporations..

      It's no wonder why American companies are snapping up UK businesses as the Tax in the USA if far higher..

      I don't think for one minute FSG would be daft enough to avoid or fiddle their taxes... They have far more to
      Lose than gain by fiddling..
      Boston not la
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21727: Feb 11, 2017 04:06:52 pm
      man, people say  americans are tinfoil hat conspiracy nuts..some mad sh*t going around the forum,pray to the holy fuckhead and his magic angels we don't lose today.Pass me a beer already.
      The Real Donavan Ried
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21728: Feb 11, 2017 04:37:07 pm
      I don't think you even know what you are arguing for now. You've gone from saying FSG are taking money out the club to conducting fraud on a massive scale because....Enron?

      I'm not going to get dragged into this because it will go round in circles but as an aside the Sarbanes Oxley act was brought as a result of Enron and which FSG will have to follow with the parent company being based in the States (or I'm asssuming they are based in the States).

      Fraud obviously can happen and is probably occurring right now at some major companies...but you have absolutely no evidence that it is. Maybe give the FBI a call and let them know that you think FSG are committing fraud based on the fact that Enron once did.
      Point that i was making which you all seem to miss again was that You (people) always claim that it can Never Happen, until it does... Any way have taken this as far as I can sorry if it bore a lot of people out there
      « Last Edit: Feb 12, 2017 01:07:02 pm by The Real Donavan Ried »
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21729: Feb 11, 2017 06:28:27 pm
      It's not difficult mate, I need a private jet for this trip or we need 5 Aston martins HMRC can't do sh*t. I was going to Portugal on golfing holidays and on stag do's, just explained that it was either looking to invest in property or team building for example expenses are so easy to get round.

      I know.
      It's all great until they audit you, and they took hospitality off the list a while back along with a few other things that are open to abuse, although typically, rules are less stringent for a Limited Company than for someone who's self employed.

      Regardless of how easy or otherwise, FSG expenses have to appear on the accounts.
      paulow63
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21730: Feb 11, 2017 08:23:54 pm
      Very quiet on the FSG thread after a win
      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21731: Feb 11, 2017 08:38:50 pm
      It's not difficult mate, I need a private jet for this trip or we need 5 Aston martins HMRC can't do sh*t. I was going to Portugal on golfing holidays and on stag do's, just explained that it was either looking to invest in property or team building for example expenses are so easy to get round.

      Can't beat the system but you can Play it ;D

      No wonder all the criminals wanna go legit, they can make more from the system than avoiding it..
      RedPuppy
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21732: Feb 11, 2017 09:34:52 pm
      Very quiet on the FSG thread after a win

      Very quiet on JWH's Twitter account about the win too.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21733: Feb 11, 2017 09:47:46 pm
      Very quiet on the FSG thread after a win

      Nothing has changed, a few top players added to that team would do wonders
      Very quiet on the FSG thread after a win

      Cuz its match day perhaps? A win won't change anyone's opinion on FSG, the win is because Jürgen and the players got it spot on today.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #21734: Feb 12, 2017 04:11:13 am
      FSG aren't cooking any books.

      As has been alluded to by many:

      Liverpool FC exists on the pitch.

      We ain't no mediocre club that hopes on maybe getting a top four finish here and there every once in a blue moon. Well, we shouldn't be.

      Until our owners show some serious intention of getting us to those levels that we should be at then the majority of the supporters are going to get rowdy.

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