NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

Klopp could fall out with the entire locker room, bench Origi and Firmino, use Henderson and Can as strikers for the rest of the season and people would still blame FSG.

I don't think that's true I think most have been patient with them but patience runs thin after a while, they are nearly 7 years at the club. They remind me of any government or president who years into their term are still blaming the last mob for this or that. What annoys me about them is they seem to have very limited ambition to really achieve anything, right now we are a less successful version of the same old same old Arsenal model which is a bit depressing.

I don't think that's true I think most have been patient with them but patience runs thin after a while, they are nearly 7 years at the club. They remind me of any government or president who years into their term are still blaming the last mob for this or that. What annoys me about them is they seem to have very limited ambition to really achieve anything, right now we are a less successful version of the same old same old Arsenal model which is a bit depressing.

I don't know that much about FSG to be honest, I don't understand things to that level but I do see mistakes at a management level that would still happen regardless who owned Liverpool.

Personally if I felt that Fenway had backed every manager they employed, I would have no issue with our league positions where they are concerned.

There are however some pretty strong evidence to suggest that hasn't always been the case.

We had KK the first manager they appointed. They splashed out on Carroll and Suarez, but that we are told was actually a bit of sleight of hand with how all that played out on the accounts.

However we also had Comoli who has since come out and said he was told he had bought a lot of rubbish and that in particular our current club captain was a total dud.

He has also since said one Summer he was only allowed to spend €10m per player and all being under the age of 21 (so low earners as well)

If he is to be believed (and I think it would be a ridiculous lie) Fenway cannot escape criticism for a policy that handicapped the man who brought Luis Suarez to the clubs attention and a man who unified the fans, a man of huge stature at this club as player and manager in Kenny Dalglish.

In the end both are swept aside for a bright young manager in Brendan Rodgers. A manager you could argue was their first time appointing their own man.

Commoli is replaced by a transfer comittee.

At first we struggle but in Rodgers first January we buy Coutinho and Sturridge and paired with Suarez and an emerging Sterling we all of a sudden have stumbled upon a winning, exciting formula.

The season after we go on to nearly win the league. In the end it is probably our defence that lets us down and it could be argued that the comittee failed to find us a solid left back and centre back to seal us a title but hey ho we nearly did it.

The season after though. What was all that about? Ricky Lambert, Mario Balotelli? In our first season back in the CL we lose our best player in Suarez and cover his departure with them two?

Where was the ambition? Moreno comes in at left back.

After his sacking a year later Rodgers in interview says that if he wanted a certain player, but he wasn't on the TC's list then that player wouldn't be considered. Basically he was given a list of 4 players and from there he decided who was picked.

Lambert comes in as an emergency measure because we can't land our main target, Balotelli likewise comes in because Rodgers is left with a choice of Mario or nothing.

The following season is 1 big f**k up culminating in Gerrards final game being a 6-1 loss (they literally let Gerrard score out of pity at the end)

So thats the end of Rodgers either through his own fault or once more another manager has been hamstrung by the amateur way the club was being ran. (Which Fenway believed was actually really clever and forward thinking).

Except it wasn't the end. They gave him 10 more games of the first season, and actually this term let him buy players he wanted.

Sterling goes because he has fallen out with Rodgers and in comes Benteke. We struggle again and ultimately Brendan is sacked.

Klopp comes in. 1 problem, the transfer window is shut, they've wasted a Summer window on a dead man walking, in doing so they bought players that now Klopp doesn't fancy.

We get to January and address the issue with loaning Caulker to the end of the season. We then pick up in form but just fall short in 2 cup finals.

Then this season. Klopps first full season. A time to right those wrongs with one of the best managers in the business right?

Wrong. We post a net spend profit on transfers.

We are however going well in the league but it's beginning to look like the bubble might burst unless we invest in January.

Milner is looking leggy, the centre back issue is starting to cost us points (Bournemouth) Mane is away for up to a month.

Instead we do absolutely nothing and slide down the league table and crash out of the Fa and League Cup.

The title challenge is dead in the water and we are left outsiders in the race for fourth.

Only then does talk from the club turn to  the coming Summer and the importance of investing in players.

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Now there are more short comings to FSG than their short arms and deep pockets.

Fundemental lack of understanding in the sport they have invested in is perhaps more important.

If you want to win trophies on the cheap you have to be extremely savvy. Unfortunately for Fenway in football terns they are not as clever as they still think they are.

It has been their sanctions they have placed upon their managers which has contributed to keeping the club down. Their lack of trust in the people they appoint, and the people they hold responsible for our results.

Next Summer I will be looking for them to back Klopp, no ridiculous sanctions (of course their will be a budget, nobody is expecting MSN) and nobody arriving here Klopp doesn't really want.

Get the players in early, a full pre season for Klopp to work with them to bed them in to the team.

If they do these things and we still fall short, then their can be no criticism of Fenway. But their short history here is littered with mistakes, usually motivated by their weakness for bargain hunting and doing things on the cheap.

Kinell.

Beast of a post.

Yes!

I think those that say FSG don't spend money etc etc are wrong, they do spend money we lost £20M last year what are we proposing that we should be losing £120M? Where focus has to lie is on how money has been spend under FSG and the blanket under which they dictate it is spent. I think some in the background of the club think they are cleverer than they are, I just hope for better or worse Klopp really has got a hold of things and will do it his way as who the f**k is Mike Gordon and what qualifies him to have any input on player recruitment? Interesting summer as ever awaits

You are right ! We can not accuse them of not spending,

But we can accuse them of cutting the players wages to a point where we have no strength in depth

Kinell.

Beast of a post.

Yes!

Haha cheers man, been playing on my mind for a while, and finally had a spare half hour to get it off my chest.

Very cathartic it was too

6th
8th
7th
2nd
6th
8th

That's surely the most objective way to look at their tenure and the club's progress? I'm struggling to look at it any other way. We can point the finger at the managers but there is a pattern here and I suspect it will continue this season with a 5th or 6th place finish unfortunately.

That's looking at things pretty objectively buddy rather than like a delusional spoofer, who's dug a deep hole but keeps digging instead of admitting he's wrong. 😉😆

What is the point is a stand against FSG? Even IF we get rid of FSG... who is going to own Liverpool then? The local chip shop owner? ... also does new owner change signings an awful lot? We kept around level on netspend and a lot of clubs try to do that. I would argue FFP enforces that to an extent. It is the managers and scouts job here too. It's like buying a Sony PlayStation 4 and complaining that EA made an awful game and blaming Sony.

Depends how ambitious you are, if you're happy with on trophy in 7 seasons then there's no point changing owners, whereas if you actually believe we should be challenging for trophies on a regular basis then it would make sense to look for owner that actually give a sh*t about on field success.
It's like saying we should've kept Benteke just in case his replacement (whoever it will be) isn't any better, when it was clear Benteke want right for us, just like FSG aren't.

You on the sauce?

He's not on the sauce - carries on like that all the time, must save a F***ing fortune.

Depends how ambitious you are, if you're happy with on trophy in 7 seasons then there's no point changing owners

The thing is; you don't even have to change owners, just their mindset but if we are being honest, L.F.C. was too much of a "steal" for them to actually need to care about winning.

"The Arsenal In The North" 😕

The thing is; you don't even have to change owners, just their mindset but if we are being honest, L.F.C. was too much of a "steal" for them to actually need to care about winning.

"The Arsenal In The North" 😕

Yup, its that simple, the current owners could change their mindset, just like my wife could have sex with me more than twice a month! I fancy my chances with the wife more to be honest 😂

You are right ! We can not accuse them of not spending,

But we can accuse them of cutting the players wages to a point where we have no strength in depth

Our wage bill is over £200M...I'm no fan of FSG but we need to deal in facts. At least it is according to the Echo  https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fsg-wages-klopp-league-12707043.amp
I do question this figure are we really spending £4M per week on wages?

Our wage bill is over £200M...I'm no fan of FSG but we need to deal in facts. At least it is according to the Echo  https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fsg-wages-klopp-league-12707043.amp
I do question this figure are we really spending £4M per week on wages?

You know where most of our wages go don't you? Hint, its not the players!

You know where most of our wages go don't you? Hint, its not the players!

So I assume you can provide proof of this?

Again being a bit thick on the subject, this extra staff, are they here,states or worldwide?.

I live in Bootle , can see the new Main Stand from my bedroom . But i'm not repeating the same posts on this thread about FSG am i ?
My view is that if you spend the money wisely , then how much you spend is irrelevant. Just look at what Wenger spent in his first two title winning sides .

I agree... But we are not spend the money, much less wisely are we?... Part of the spend is transfers, where we (FSG) seem to believe in "resalable value" which to me seems as if they are more concerned with making (or not losing) out on the money they lay out, than creating and sustaining a great footballing team... The other part to that is wages... In short you get what you pay for... Footballers have 8-10 years were they can really earn thier money and gain success, If players can not earn at one club then they will soon switch to another who will pay them what they believe they are worth given the opportunity....Deli Ali was offered a reported £4k a week wages when he wanted to sign for us, Spurs offered him £10k...£6k a week more which is F**k all In the scheme of things...We are a once great club that has lost it's way, No title in the last 20+ years struggling to finish in the top six. And owners that are more concerned with filling thier boots rather than filling the trophy cabinet     

Again being a bit thick on the subject, this extra staff, are they here,states or worldwide?.

Worldwide Shabs.

Worldwide Shabs.

Had a wild guess it would be,building an existing & expanding a brand takes plenty of effort & we have seen numbers around the world increase in out support base.

It's one part of the business we rarely see.

Onto the summer window & Klopp, I believe FSG will go in heavy & big on first team recruitment, I also believe the criticism both manager & owners have faced after our campaign exit in Jan will play a major part in the big spend.

right now we are a less successful version of the same old same old Arsenal model which is a bit depressing.

Like to point out that over the last 20 seasons Arsenal have won more thorpies than Liverpool, and are constantly up there battling it out the Title.. Plus the last 19 seasons (and what looks like this one too) they have never failed to qualify for the CL...
To me the Arsenal model is looking quite good at the moment...

So I assume you can provide proof of this?

Far to much of our wage bill is going on administrative staff when you compared it to the other top clubs.

Weekly Player Wage Bill
 

1st Manchester City                         £2.61m
2nd Manchester United                  £2.52m
3rd Chelsea                                     £1.92m
4th Arsenal                                      £1.76m
5th Liverpool                                  £1.53m

Annual Player Wage Bill
 

1st Manchester City                         £135.72m
2nd Manchester United                  £131.04m
3rd Chelsea                                      £99.89m
4th Arsenal                                       £91.78m
5th Liverpool                                    £79.35m

Administration/Commercial Staff Per Club
 

1st Liverpool – 500
2nd Arsenal – 364
3rd Man Utd – 206
4th Chelsea – 206
5th Man City – 170
6th Tottenham – 133

Do we really need that many? More than twice than Man U who have a much higher turn over.

So if this figures are correct, only £79.35 million of our Annual £208 million wage bill is going on players.

Like to point out that over the last 20 seasons Arsenal have won more thorpies than Liverpool, and are constantly up there battling it out the Title.. Plus the last 19 seasons (and what looks like this one too) they have never failed to qualify for the CL...
To me the Arsenal model is looking quite good at the moment...

I'm not demeaning it too much they do what they do well but it's not one I want us to aspire to. What's depressing is we are a pale imitation of this model that in itself is one  few Liverpool fans would accept

Far to much of our wage bill is going on administrative staff when you compared it to the other top clubs.

Weekly Player Wage Bill
 

1st Manchester City                         £2.61m
2nd Manchester United                  £2.52m
3rd Chelsea                                     £1.92m
4th Arsenal                                      £1.76m
5th Liverpool                                  £1.53m

Annual Player Wage Bill
 

1st Manchester City                         £135.72m
2nd Manchester United                  £131.04m
3rd Chelsea                                      £99.89m
4th Arsenal                                       £91.78m
5th Liverpool                                    £79.35m

Administration/Commercial Staff Per Club
 

1st Liverpool – 500
2nd Arsenal – 364
3rd Man Utd – 206
4th Chelsea – 206
5th Man City – 170
6th Tottenham – 133

Do we really need that many? More than twice than Man U who have a much higher turn over.

So if this gifts are correct, only £79.35 million of our Annual £208 million wage bill is going on players.

No idea where you got those player wage numbers from, but they're pretty wide of the mark.
i.e. wrong.

Player wages were at least 152 million, and that's before bonuses etc in 2015/16

Various sites have us at £165 m for this season.

I'm not demeaning it too much they do what they do well but it's not one I want us to aspire to. What's depressing is we are a pale imitation of this model that in itself is one  few Liverpool fans would accept

Not say that you are wrong, just stating that at this moment in time I believe most of us here would settle for being in the position of a Arsenal than where we find ourselves now

The echo article i have linked before worked our wages out as being £75 million

Everton worked out at being £53 million

Our income £300 million. Evertons £121 million

They use 43 % of there income on the first team, we use 25 %