NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

What are you dyslexic?
Why have I got to break down everything because it is not your interpretation of things 

As stated in a football context monies from advertising, royalties, CL prize money etc evaporates when dividends and profit margins etc take priority.

Better players acquired by former managers are sold and thankfully the genius of Klopp attracts signings,
"Increased profits" are destined for healthy profit margins and increased dividends.

They don't take a dividend, and "profit margins" are non existent.
It's a football club, not a newsagents.

As has been said on at least 17 million occasions, they'll make their money when they sell.

They don't take a dividend, and "profit margins" are non existent.
It's a football club, not a newsagents.

As has been said on at least 17 million occasions, they'll make their money when they sell.

I actually genuinely think he's just winding people up now, sat there with a little grin on his face at home

Cause the alternative is he's thick and I honestly don't think he is

What are you dyslexic?
Why have I got to break down everything because it is not your interpretation of things 

As stated in a football context monies from advertising, royalties, CL prize money etc evaporates when dividends and profit margins etc take priority.

Better players acquired by former managers are sold and thankfully the genius of Klopp attracts signings,
"Increased profits" are destined for healthy profit margins and increased dividends.

You do know dividends would show in the accounts right?

Or are you seriously suggesting they are conducting a massive fraud in order to deceive the fan base, when they could just take a dividend anyway?

Klopp is the man who will take us to success, my issue here is that you will never ever ever give any credit.

As you would say, it seems you have an agenda.

I actually genuinely think he's just winding people up now, sat there with a little grin on his face at home

Cause the alternative is he's thick and I honestly don't think he is

I do, hence the tortured prose which he thinks is eloquence.

I was reading back on a thread earlier and he called our new player "Bobby Fabinho".
Not thick?
hmmm
Maybe it's just the self medication after his op a while back has continued, and now he IS the pot.

I haven't kept up with the Red Sox, mostly because I don't give a f**k about them, but that's very impressive growth.

OK, it's different to football, with trades rather than transfers, but doesn't that just mean the transfer money is paid out in player wages instead?

Teams acquire players in several ways
1) Draft......costs limited to signing bonuses, minimal monthly wages, and development expenses in teams' minor league systems
2) Free agency....cost limited to size of contract signed
3) Trades
Today happens to be the last day for trades in MLB. This time of year, bad teams attempt to trade away expensive players (big contracts) who don't fit into that team's future plans to teams that have playoff ambition in the current year. Typically, the high priced player gets traded for multiple low cost/high upside minor leaguers deemed future stars in the league. When these trades take place, huge financial shifts occur for both teams. One takes on a huge burden, the other gets massive relief that they may spend on free agents in the offseason...or not
If money does exchange hands in a trade, it cannot exceed $1 million
Note: teams are required to spend a minimum on salaries yearly and cannot exceed the maximum (cap)

Regarding the frantic discussions of Liverpool's books and these unfounded fears that FSG operates in deceptive ways with exit plans at the ready, clearly these cynics don't know how this group operates.
First off, I can tell you right now this ownership will never relinquish this team. The stadium is a low cost cash cow, the TV rights are massive and ever expanding, and their fan base is among the largest and most supportive in the world.
There are few financial investments in the world that will out perform Liverpool over the next decade and beyond. This group does not sell massive recurring revenue streams. And don't think for one minute John Henry doesn't salivate knowing the financial advantage Liverpool sees as a big club with disproportionately large TV shares compared to smaller clubs in the EPL. That's the Golden ticket. The big boys get to write the rules to their advantage. You don't walk away from that type of financial leverage.
My point......stop worrying about accounting and other minutia. This group is here for the long haul. They will make mistakes on the roster, like every other team, but FSG's has a two decade track record of quickly addressing mistakes, often with oversized checks. I fully expect Liverpool to have a multibillion dollar valuation in only a few years because every indicator is pointing up right now.
Relax all

Well known that Red Sox are given preferential financial backing.

Fans are their preferential backing.....
81 sold out nights per year
Highest ticket price in MLB
Massive food & beverage sales
Massive TV contracts
Massive high income fan base
$200-$300 million / year profitability

One solid year at Fenway bought them an EPL team

Teams acquire players in several ways
1) Draft......costs limited to signing bonuses, minimal monthly wages, and development expenses in teams' minor league systems
2) Free agency....cost limited to size of contract signed
3) Trades
Today happens to be the last day for trades in MLB. This time of year, bad teams attempt to trade away expensive players (big contracts) who don't fit into that team's future plans to teams that have playoff ambition in the current year. Typically, the high priced player gets traded for multiple low cost/high upside minor leaguers deemed future stars in the league. When these trades take place, huge financial shifts occur for both teams. One takes on a huge burden, the other gets massive relief that they may spend on free agents in the offseason...or not
If money does exchange hands in a trade, it cannot exceed $1 million
Note: teams are required to spend a minimum on salaries yearly and cannot exceed the maximum (cap)

Regarding the frantic discussions of Liverpool's books and these unfounded fears that FSG operates in deceptive ways with exit plans at the ready, clearly these cynics don't know how this group operates.
First off, I can tell you right now this ownership will never relinquish this team. The stadium is a low cost cash cow, the TV rights are massive and ever expanding, and their fan base is among the largest and most supportive in the world.
There are few financial investments in the world that will out perform Liverpool over the next decade and beyond. This group does not sell massive recurring revenue streams. And don't think for one minute John Henry doesn't salivate knowing the financial advantage Liverpool sees as a big club with disproportionately large TV shares compared to smaller clubs in the EPL. That's the Golden ticket. The big boys get to write the rules to their advantage. You don't walk away from that type of financial leverage.
My point......stop worrying about accounting and other minutia. This group is here for the long haul. They will make mistakes on the roster, like every other team, but FSG's has a two decade track record of quickly addressing mistakes, often with oversized checks. I fully expect Liverpool to have a multibillion dollar valuation in only a few years because every indicator is pointing up right now.
Relax all

oh, I'm completely relaxed about the owners, and since Mike Gordon took over responsibility for Liverpool, I became even more relaxed.

People have always wanted to compare FSG to our previous owners hicks and gillette, but it's apples and oranges.
H&G were asset stripping cowboys without any real financial clout.
JH on the other hand has been a very savvy investor for decades, taking a long view and building profits slowly, and is now using derivatives as a hedge against currency fluctuations in the club accounts, amongst other things, to keep things as healthy as possible (due to brexit, sterling is quite volatile).
FSH also don't take money out of the club (except for what we would call a wage), so everything we earn (LFC that is) is used to benefit the club, to make it grow, to earn more money when they eventually sell.

FSG will eventually sell to a mega rich owners, and that's when they'll make their money.

I don't particularly like that, but it is what it is.

You do know dividends would show in the accounts right?

Right and I imagine the shareholders are well impressed with LFC's performance on the markets.

Or are you seriously suggesting they are conducting a massive fraud in order to deceive the fan base, when they could just take a dividend anyway?

On the contrary, H&G were fraudsters while JWH&Co are perfectly legit, to some their business methods are unacceptable.

Klopp is the man who will take us to success, my issue here is that you will never ever ever give any credit.

Entirely agree but FSG deserve no credit. Said before if Klopp walks tiring of the never ending challenges FSG and the club are fu**ed.

As you would say, it seems you have an agenda.

It would seem that way.

Fans are their preferential backing.....
81 sold out nights per year
Highest ticket price in MLB
Massive food & beverage sales
Massive TV contracts
Massive high income fan base
$200-$300 million / year profitability

One solid year at Fenway bought them an EPL team

Not so at Anfield.

I actually genuinely think he's just winding people up now, sat there with a little grin on his face at home

Cause the alternative is he's thick and I honestly don't think he is

Your frustration stems from the fact that the undeserved praise for JWH&Co is easily rebuffed, to be honest I question some people's perception.
Enquiries and questions of the owners have caused certain people to rise from the dead which in this case is no miracle.

How much do you think as a percentage and why would it matter anyway? For example don't you ever use your salary to buy things?

I don't think I'm really that concerned... I Just wish that some here would admit that they do draw on monies (A Salary) from Liverpool instead for trying to paint a picture that they take nothing out of the club, is all

oh, I'm completely relaxed about the owners, and since Mike Gordon took over responsibility for Liverpool, I became even more relaxed.

People have always wanted to compare FSG to our previous owners hicks and gillette, but it's apples and oranges.
H&G were asset stripping cowboys without any real financial clout.
JH on the other hand has been a very savvy investor for decades, taking a long view and building profits slowly, and is now using derivatives as a hedge against currency fluctuations in the club accounts, amongst other things, to keep things as healthy as possible (due to brexit, sterling is quite volatile).
FSH also don't take money out of the club (except for what we would call a wage), so everything we earn (LFC that is) is used to benefit the club, to make it grow, to earn more money when they eventually sell.

FSG will eventually sell to a mega rich owners, and that's when they'll make their money.

I don't particularly like that, but it is what it is.

A couple of thoughts:

Liverpool will eventually achieve a stabilized profit level and at that point they will redirect funds into new ventures. Given the large number of long term contracts recently extended to the sizable group of core players, I foresee more controlled spending in the next several years allowing FSG to achieve a higher level of profitability.
What are the rules about buying teams in other leagues?

I suspect ownership views the EPL and all of European football as a sports business still in its formative years despite the sports' long history. If they view Liverpool as every sports owner in the US views their sports franchises, FSG will never sell until the estate planning phase. Baseball, football, basketball valuations only go up and up and up. They are legacy investments that offer prestige as well. Partners may sell their shares but FSG will never unload a legacy investment.

Please reply to my post about the extra £110m we've spent of the Coutinho money, how do you account for it?

The 105.25M spent you mean...
You have under spends of...
24.3m from the last window (2017/18)
19.3m from the 2016/17 window

So in reality the splashed 62.25m... As I said before It is most welcomed

A couple of thoughts:

Liverpool will eventually achieve a stabilized profit level and at that point they will redirect funds into new ventures. Given the large number of long term contracts recently extended to the sizable group of core players, I foresee more controlled spending in the next several years allowing FSG to achieve a higher level of profitability.
What are the rules about buying teams in other leagues?

I suspect ownership views the EPL and all of European football as a sports business still in its formative years despite the sports' long history. If they view Liverpool as every sports owner in the US views their sports franchises, FSG will never sell until the estate planning phase. Baseball, football, basketball valuations only go up and up and up. They are legacy investments that offer prestige as well. Partners may sell their shares but FSG will never unload a legacy investment.

Interesting points, but "stable profit" is not a given in football.
Failure to qualify for Champions League, changes of manager, turnover of playing staff and many other things can see a club sink quite quickly.
Look at Arsenal for example, big earners, a champions league regular, new stadium all paid for, and yet they are struggling at the moment, compared to their peak years.

FSG also cite TV revenues as a risk factor in the annual report; no one knows if or when the bubble will burst with the huge amounts of TV money on offer, but burst it most assuredly will, sooner or later (my guess is later).

If we're talking really long term (10-15 years) then I would expect Mike Gordon to take more control at LFC.
He's another interesting character, and stays very much out of the public eye.
However, since his buy-in (now the 2nd largest FSG stockholder after Henry), the club has been much more pro-active.
Perhaps JH wanted to take a step back at his age, and we know he concentrates exclusively on the Red Sox these days, while Gordon runs Liverpool, although the group is run in a collegiate manner.

Interesting times ahead, and hopefully successful ones.

A decent year in the transfer market, this year, and last summer to be fair, so the signs are good, but football is a very unpredictable sport, and you never know what's round the corner.

Note: teams are required to spend a minimum on salaries yearly and cannot exceed the maximum (cap)

just one note here, teams are permitted to spend over that cap in payroll, but have to pay a luxury tax on the overage. Does FSG happen to do that with this year's RedSox (or in the past)? Just curious.

It's not a guarantee of on-field success (the Yankees have proven that) and of course it takes nothing away from your excellent argument. Thanks.

Perhaps JH wanted to take a step back at his age, and we know he concentrates exclusively on the Red Sox these days, while Gordon runs Liverpool, although the group is run in a collegiate manner.

Swab just an FYI...JWH doesn't do a whole hellavu lot with the Redsox or any of the sports stuff since he bought the Boston Globe..that's where the majority of his time seems to be spent. Sam Kennedy is the CEO and president of the red sox and controls day to day as well as long term planning...he's also part of FSG.

just one note here, teams are permitted to spend over that cap in payroll, but have to pay a luxury tax on the overage. Does FSG happen to do that with this year's RedSox (or in the past)? Just curious.

It's not a guarantee of on-field success (the Yankees have proven that) and of course it takes nothing away from your excellent argument. Thanks.

Red Sox are always paying the luxury tax..as are the Yankees.

Swab just an FYI...JWH doesn't do a whole hellavu lot with the Redsox or any of the sports stuff since he bought the Boston Globe..that's where the majority of his time seems to be spent. Sam Kennedy is the CEO and president of the red sox and controls day to day as well as long term planning...he's also part of FSG.

Cheers mate, I don't follow the baseball, so didn't know he'd stepped back from that as well

I know we've improved since Gordon took over more, is it the same with the Red Sox?
Just curious

Edit to add, Sam Kennedy appears to be a bit of a marketing guru, and has helped shape FSG strategy in promoting commercial aspects.
Good to know (for no other reason than that I like information   )

Cheers mate, I don't follow the baseball, so didn't know he'd stepped back from that as well

I know we've improved since Gordon took over more, is it the same with the Red Sox?
Just curious

They are decent most years...been a while since they won the series but they are always in the mix.

If you ask some Red Sox supporters they will say all the money goes to Liverpool that's why they haven't won a championship in 4 years

Enquiries and questions of the owners have caused certain people to rise from the dead which in this case is no miracle.

What is uncanny is one individual makes a reappearance after months of silence and is joined by a forum clone with the same opinion word for word.
Weird.

They are decent most years...been a while since they won the series but they are always in the mix.

If you ask some Red Sox supporters they will say all the money goes to Liverpool that's why they haven't won a championship in 4 years

 

Yeah, I read that before.
Who says Americans don't do irony

I edited my previous post if you want to take a look.

Current Boston Red Sox valuation....$3 Billion
2002 purchase price $380 million
+784%
Currently.....Highest payroll, top of the table, massive profits

Here's FSG's phone # 617-226-6484
Give 'em a call and offer your expertise. Tell 'em "to treat an established profitable asset as such and promote it accordingly" because clearly they haven't a clue.

Liverpool...from 300 mill to 1 billion valuation since 2010
+333%

But give 'em a call. Let 'em know all about proper accounting

I had the joy of sitting in a waiting room at a Dr's office yesterday so had the pleasure of reading up a bit on the purchase of Liverpool by FSG/NESV. One of the things i read was an article / interview from Martin Broughton, in charge of selling the team, where he says one of the things that went in favor of NESV vs. the other bidder was their track record with the Red Sox.

The board voted 3-2 in favor of NESV/FSG with the other bidder being Peter Lim who went on to buy Valencia a few years later with pretty crappy results. Looks like a dodged bullet there.

Do wonder what kind of prepubescent-type remark i'll get for having a Dr's visit,

Right and I imagine the shareholders are well impressed with LFC's performance on the markets.

On the contrary, H&G were fraudsters while JWH&Co are perfectly legit, to some their business methods are unacceptable.

Entirely agree but FSG deserve no credit. Said before if Klopp walks tiring of the never ending challenges FSG and the club are fu**ed.

It would seem that way.

What markets? We aren’t listed or publicallt available, you’re just talking absolute rubbish. Of course the owners will be pleased about the clubs valuation increasing, or would you prefer they decrease the valuation?! Such a bizarre argument to make.

Klopp isn’t walking though, nor has there been any indication he’s about to. It’s an argument based entirely on a hypothetical situation.