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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      bmck
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25737: Aug 09, 2020 06:10:18 pm
      Second part, Jürgen is a f**king genius who is the sole reason for our success currently

      Spot on. It's unbelievable what he has done.
      FSG had a period with Hodgson, moved on to Brendan Rogers.
      But our success is due to Jürgen.
      The most important piece of business was selling Cou and signing VVD and Alission, we turned a corner then imho, and the money from Cou funded it.
      FSG are sitting on a vastly more valuable asset now than when they took over.
      And Jürgen is the reason.
      The man has worked miracles on a modest budget.
      Amazing really.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25738: Aug 09, 2020 06:20:30 pm
      It's also very noticeable that the people who were slating Edwards and his team have gone very F***ing quiet about that.

      Let's be clear, it wasn't Klopp's genius that identified Robertson, Salah, Mane, Firmino etc
      It was Edwards. The bloke some on here spent season after season pissing on.

      And who brought in Edwards and his team?

      For that matter, who brought in Klopp?

      Who has rebuilt the club from the ground up after the decades of neglect?

      Have a F***ing day off with this sh*te, and remember the mess we were in after Moores and his lazy arse sidekick sold us down the F***ing river after spending almost 20 years doing F**k all as we fell further and further behind.
      Some short F***ing memories alright.
      chats
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25739: Aug 09, 2020 06:25:35 pm
      To me, hiring the right footballing people and spending what you make is the absolute bare minimum an owner of a club should be doing. The fact that H&G were absolute cu*ts has made those basic things look like great ones.

      I don't think they've done much to warrant being slaughtered (although the ticketing thing and the furlous fiasco still disappoints me) but at the same time I don't think they've done a great deal that's worth a sh*t tonne of praise either.

      We're back at the top because Jürgen Klopp has worked a miracle.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25740: Aug 09, 2020 06:33:25 pm
      To me, hiring the right footballing people and spending what you make is the absolute bare minimum an owner of a club should be doing. The fact that H&G were absolute cu*ts has made those basic things look like great ones.

      I don't think they've done much to warrant being slaughtered (although the ticketing thing and the furlous fiasco still disappoints me) but at the same time I don't think they've done a great deal that's worth a sh*t tonne of praise either.

      We're back at the top because Jürgen Klopp has worked a miracle.

      And yet for 25 years, that "bare minimum" didn't happen.

      We weren't competeing on a commercial level, the stadium badly needed an upgrade, as did our training facilities (which has cost what? £170 million quid or so for the 2).

      We were so far behind, it was embarrassing.

      Now we've caught up, and all some people can do is whine we aren't spending as much as corrupt clubs.
      It's F***ing mental.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25741: Aug 09, 2020 06:40:32 pm
      Just to add to that mate.

      I've seen people using the 'what happens if one of the front three gets injured' argument as regards signings and adding 'we've been lucky with injuries'. The reason we've kept injuries to a minimum is because of the medical staff the club have employed so kudos needs to be given for that also.

      Yep.
      Fatigue monitoring has been taken to a whole new level, along with tailored training for individuals that is constantly monitored and adapted depending on tiredness.

      On top of that, city's "strong bench" got a kick in the hole because they couldn't keep a player happy despite paying him fortunes.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25742: Aug 09, 2020 07:07:31 pm
      Agreed.

      One of the things that's noticeable throughout the season is if Mo, Bobby or Sadio are left out for a match or come on as a late sub it's not generally questioned, we just accept that it's for a reason and that's because we trust that it's justified. We can't, or shouldn't, start using it in a transfer window just to justify our personal standpoint as regards the owners spending, that's just F***ing lazy.

      There's a few doctors at my golf club, and one of them is a big football fan (City, but old school), so he takes a big interest in developments in sports science, and injury prevention.
      There's some injuries you obviously can't do anything about.
      But there's a lot you can do to reduce the likelihood of fatigue related injuries, inlcuding regular blood tests to look for certain markers which indicate tiredness/fatigue.

      He knows his stuff, and is very into all this malarkey.
      He spoke about it for a good while, but I barely understood a lot of it  :laugh:

      It's another piece in the jigsaw of the teams that work behind the scenes, which we rarely hear about, but which are hugely important.
      shawspeed
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25743: Aug 10, 2020 06:24:26 pm

      Maybe people need to read the official accounts that are submitted to the HMRC to understand the finances at the club.

      Shirt deal is a smaller up front payment
      We aren’t making massive profits because of the increase in the wage bill .

      We will have potentially an big impact on the finances because of Covid

       But it’s sad now that it’s got to a stage when fans appear to want players to sign as opposed to winning trophies.

      Is the Covid thing not being overplayed. Surely only matchday income is affected. Revenue last season was £95m for the full season. 4 games out of 19 had no spectators so that is a loss of approx £20m.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25744: Aug 10, 2020 06:46:36 pm
      Is the Covid thing not being overplayed. Surely only matchday income is affected. Revenue last season was £95m for the full season. 4 games out of 19 had no spectators so that is a loss of approx £20m.

      It’s not so much the season that’s just finished that is the issue. You’re right when you say about it only being 4 games out of 19 with no fans in the stadium and I think I read that it was a loss of between 12-20mill. However, it’s not just the home games, there is the away ticket allocation that has been lost so that 8 or so games we’ve now taken a hit on in that regard. In the grand scheme of things, it’s not a massive loss so far for a club of our size, however, there is no sign of stadiums being full again for a while yet, for all we know it could be an entire season of behind closed doors, and that’s when it is a massive loss.

      I think prize money has also been reduced this season and some of the broadcasting payments too.

      If clubs want to pump a load of money in for transfers then fair play, crack on and take the risk, but I can completely understand why we aren’t taking the risk because I have no doubts at all that there will be some clubs who end up in big trouble financially because they’ve overspent this summer.

      We are in the lucky position that our squad just needs fine tuning in a few areas, we don’t need a massive overhaul of players or drastic decisions made to try and play catch up.

      You can’t please everyone, some people will moan about a lack of investment this summer but you can guarantee that those people will also happily slate the owners for overspending and putting us at risk if revenue doesn’t return for a while.

      We have enough players we need to sell that should generate what we need this summer and at the same time, I’d like to think that the owners will put a bit of money forward too but if they don’t then they don’t, they have never really done so before so why should now be any different.
      « Last Edit: Aug 10, 2020 06:54:23 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25745: Aug 10, 2020 07:07:35 pm
      It’s not so much the season that’s just finished that is the issue. You’re right when you say about it only being 4 games out of 19 with no fans in the stadium and I think I read that it was a loss of between 12-20mill. However, it’s not just the home games, there is the away ticket allocation that has been lost so that 8 or so games we’ve now taken a hit on in that regard. In the grand scheme of things, it’s not a massive loss so far for a club of our size, however, there is no sign of stadiums being full again for a while yet, for all we know it could be an entire season of behind closed doors, and that’s when it is a massive loss.

      I think prize money has also been reduced this season and some of the broadcasting payments too.

      If clubs want to pump a load of money in for transfers then fair play, crack on and take the risk, but I can completely understand why we aren’t taking the risk because I have no doubts at all that there will be some clubs who end up in big trouble financially because they’ve overspent this summer.

      We are in the lucky position that our squad just needs fine tuning in a few areas, we don’t need a massive overhaul of players or drastic decisions made to try and play catch up.

      You can’t please everyone, some people will moan about a lack of investment this summer but you can guarantee that those people will also happily slate the owners for overspending and putting us at risk if revenue doesn’t return for a while.

      We have enough players we need to sell that should generate what we need this summer and at the same time, I’d like to think that the owners will put a bit of money forward too but if they don’t then they don’t, they have never really done so before so why should now be any different.

      It was mostly TV money. The teams had to pay back TV money that had been paid out to the various carriers. It was a very large sum of money from what I understand.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25746: Aug 10, 2020 07:10:46 pm

      Maybe people need to read the official accounts that are submitted to the HMRC to understand the finances at the club.

      We had some ex-forumites who probably could of got a doctorate for doing that during the protesting over G & H.
      shawspeed
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25747: Aug 10, 2020 07:21:56 pm
      It was mostly TV money. The teams had to pay back TV money that had been paid out to the various carriers. It was a very large sum of money from what I understand.

      Did the money actually have to be paid back in the end given that all of our matches were televised. I thought it was just a threat if the null and voiders got their way.
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25748: Aug 10, 2020 08:38:02 pm
      Did the money actually have to be paid back in the end given that all of our matches were televised. I thought it was just a threat if the null and voiders got their way.

      Oh, dunno, last I had read that is where the biggest loss was going to be.
      heimdall
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25749: Aug 11, 2020 08:23:45 am
      Did the money actually have to be paid back in the end given that all of our matches were televised. I thought it was just a threat if the null and voiders got their way.

      Its a good point, surely as the matches were televised that money did not need to be paid back or is the TV money dependent on fans being in the stadium which would be rather ironic ;-)
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25750: Aug 11, 2020 10:34:13 am
      Sky gave all their customers a payment break for 3 months and they will be claiming that back from the clubs. We are also missing out on a lot of corporate stuff as well

      The losses could be up to £100mil or it could be a lot less - going to be a waiting game which is why the owners are being cautious
      shawspeed
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25751: Aug 11, 2020 11:55:11 am
      Sky gave all their customers a payment break for 3 months and they will be claiming that back from the clubs. We are also missing out on a lot of corporate stuff as well

      The losses could be up to £100mil or it could be a lot less - going to be a waiting game which is why the owners are being cautious

      The clubs played the required number of games for sky, when they were played is not the clubs fault so I don't see why they should pay the money back to sky. Sky would surely only have a claim if the clubs said no more televised games after the end of May.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25752: Aug 11, 2020 12:05:36 pm
      The clubs played the required number of games for sky, when they were played is not the clubs fault so I don't see why they should pay the money back to sky. Sky would surely only have a claim if the clubs said no more televised games after the end of May.

      Doesn't really matter which way we see it.
      They had a contract that was broken (for whatever reason) and Sky etc no longer had exclusive access to matches.
      I'm pretty sure it's the "exclusive access" that matters.

      The upshot, was negotiations for Premier league clubs to pay back some of the money.
      Again, it doesn't matter what we think.

      This is for info only, I'm not debating this, simply pointing out what happened.
      heimdall
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25753: Aug 11, 2020 12:35:24 pm
      Doesn't really matter which way we see it.
      They had a contract that was broken (for whatever reason) and Sky etc no longer had exclusive access to matches.
      I'm pretty sure it's the "exclusive access" that matters.

      The upshot, was negotiations for Premier league clubs to pay back some of the money.
      Again, it doesn't matter what we think.

      This is for info only, I'm not debating this, simply pointing out what happened.

      So you're only pretty sure but not willing to debate it, good that you have such an open mind my friend!


      I would have thought that since the games were in the end televised, in fact more than there would have been i normal times, that any money repaid would have been returned, otherwise its complete nonsense. Sky deciding not to charge customers is not the fault of the football clubs and I don't see how they could be held liable for that unless there are some very iffy clauses in the TV contracts.
      I guess we won't know for sure until we see next years accounts, but one thing is certain until fans are admitted to the stadiums the football clubs have a hell of a lot of power over the TV companies.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25754: Aug 11, 2020 01:17:15 pm
      The clubs played the required number of games for sky, when they were played is not the clubs fault so I don't see why they should pay the money back to sky. Sky would surely only have a claim if the clubs said no more televised games after the end of May.

      The clubs also played some of the games on various other channels during a compressed timeline. It was not was in the contract - there will be a refund for the media contract and each club will have a small reduction from that.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25755: Aug 11, 2020 03:07:44 pm
      Just be grateful the season wasn’t considered void because I think if that was the case, the entire broadcasting deals would have had to of been refunded.
      TameImpala
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25756: Aug 11, 2020 03:34:49 pm
      Just be grateful the season wasn’t considered void because I think if that was the case, the entire broadcasting deals would have had to of been refunded.

      Shows even more the lunacy of the Everton fans who were screaming for it to be null & void. They'd just announced record losses of £100M + and were in the process of taking out more loans just to get by. Imagine if the TV money had been taken from them. Literally begging for their club to go into administration just to stop us winning the league. Pure Everton
      shawspeed
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25757: Aug 11, 2020 04:55:15 pm
      The clubs also played some of the games on various other channels during a compressed timeline. It was not was in the contract - there will be a refund for the media contract and each club will have a small reduction from that.

      Yes they did, but that would have been the case had the season ended normally. Sky hadn't programmed to show all of our games.
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25758: Aug 11, 2020 05:27:36 pm
      Looks like the TV money will be paid back over several seasons. Good thing we won the league....175m and we still couldn't afford a Werner ;)


      https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liverpool-get-175m-payout-as-premier-league-clubs-agree-to-delay-cuts-to-prize-money-vkg3h7qf9
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25759: Aug 12, 2020 12:20:07 pm
      Yet more dosh to swell the club's market value, when these do eventually sell up the executive,  board and shareholders etc are in line for an unbelievable pay out.
      Well played NESV your business acumen is beyond doubt, unlike their knowledge of soccer.

      Most likely they will reap the rewards on the unimaginable, disastrous revelation of Jürgen Klopp's departure from LFC when it does materialise, our man does seem to set a 7 year tenureship span, hopefully this is not the case with LFC and he is here for decades.

      If the worst scenario does materialise it is back to the disastrous pre-Klopp managerial appointments which will erode the club's market value and as stated this may persuade FSG to sell up while the going's good.
      Business acumen prioritising soccer loyalty, simple as.
      « Last Edit: Aug 12, 2020 12:45:59 pm by stuey »

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