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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      heimdall
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25725: Aug 09, 2020 03:53:41 pm
      I don't think anybody is asking us to do anything along the lines of what Leeds did. The owners didn't spend any money last season and it looks as though we're going to have another quiet window this summer, this is after reaping the financial rewards of a European Cup, league title & bumper shirt deal. People aren't demanding a feast but I don't think they'll be happy with another famine. Clubs can improve their squads without putting themselves into administration

      "Clubs can improve their squads without putting themselves into administration"

      Indeed they can through prudent and clever signings like Robertson, when you are basically buying just to bolster a squad then there is no reason to overspend, its actually a lot easier as you can take a bit more of a gamble on up and coming talent.
      Having said that I would like to see us get another forward who has a bit of experience, someone like Sarr would be absolutely perfect.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25726: Aug 09, 2020 04:53:37 pm
      I don't think anybody is asking us to do anything along the lines of what Leeds did. The owners didn't spend any money last season and it looks as though we're going to have another quiet window this summer, this is after reaping the financial rewards of a European Cup, league title & bumper shirt deal. People aren't demanding a feast but I don't think they'll be happy with another famine. Clubs can improve their squads without putting themselves into administration


      Maybe people need to read the official accounts that are submitted to the HMRC to understand the finances at the club.

      Shirt deal is a smaller up front payment
      We aren’t making massive profits because of the increase in the wage bill .

      We will have potentially an big impact on the finances because of Covid

       But it’s sad now that it’s got to a stage when fans appear to want players to sign as opposed to winning trophies.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25727: Aug 09, 2020 04:56:39 pm

      Very true the minges have only spent when we have sold, not asking for loads of signings but we have to continually build, only one or two big signings a season but these minges just want to live of the clubs success, remember moneyball

      I wonder what you would have thought when we sold Keegan and bought Kenny or when we sold Rush and bought Barnes and Co

      The club works on self sufficent so any money it makes can be used - that includes player sales

      It’s embarrassing now when the fanbase is demanding one or two big signings a summer - if you want that then support a club held up by leveraged debt or huge debt against the owner
      Kopite78
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25728: Aug 09, 2020 05:22:56 pm
      I wonder what you would have thought when we sold Keegan and bought Kenny or when we sold Rush and bought Barnes and Co

      The club works on self sufficent so any money it makes can be used - that includes player sales

      It’s embarrassing now when the fanbase is demanding one or two big signings a summer - if you want that then support a club held up by leveraged debt or huge debt against the owner

      No issues with being self sufficient whatsoever

      But do you really expect us with the success we have had on and off the pitch to be 15th of the premier league clubs over a 5 year period for net spend?

      Is that all we have in the kitty?

      Personally for me, its taken 30 years to get back on our perch and I'd be gutted if we dont capitalize on that
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25729: Aug 09, 2020 05:27:45 pm
      No issues with being self sufficient whatsoever

      But do you really expect us with the success we have had on and off the pitch to be 15th of the premier league clubs over a 5 year period for net spend?

      Is that all we have in the kitty?

      Personally for me, its taken 30 years to get back on our perch and I'd be gutted if we dont capitalize on that


      I didn’t realise there was a Net spend League ?


      How big a kitty do you expect us to have ?

      And why concerned about the price or amount spent ?

      Example - UTD have spent £810mil since Taggert left - who has the better team and better success over those 7 years ?

      City have spent £600mil on defenders over the back 8 years - who has the better back line ?
      Kopite78
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25730: Aug 09, 2020 05:31:52 pm

      I didn’t realise there was a Net spend League ?


      How big a kitty do you expect us to have ?

      And why concerned about the price or amount spent ?

      Example - UTD have spent £810mil since Taggert left - who has the better team and better success over those 7 years ?

      City have spent £600mil on defenders over the back 8 years - who has the better back line ?

      Its there if you look for it

      It's ok saying united have spent that, and whilst I agree that we are far the better side, mainly due to our manager, because if you gave Jürgen the players United have had in that period he gets far far more out of them, but united used to spend when they were on top, they used to bring in players to keep things fresh all the time

      That's where we are now
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25731: Aug 09, 2020 05:43:23 pm
      Its there if you look for it

      It's ok saying united have spent that, and whilst I agree that we are far the better side, mainly due to our manager, because if you gave Jürgen the players United have had in that period he gets far far more out of them, but united used to spend when they were on top, they used to bring in players to keep things fresh all the time

      That's where we are now
      Why the hell would I want to look at a net spend League ? Does it matter ? Do you win a trophy - how sad it is that they have created one and even more so that Liverpool fans are that concerned about it

      Guess i should blame the football manager generation

      I think you don’t understand how the manager works , he isn’t a cheque book manager and just wants cash after cash

      We employed Klopp because of the methods and the manager he is , he proved that he can be a success despite not having the biggest budget at Dortmund and he is doing it again now with us - the clubs method and ethos is exactly why he is our manager and why he won’t be at a Chelsea or a PSG or City
      Kopite78
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25732: Aug 09, 2020 05:46:51 pm
      Why the hell would I want to look at a net spend League ? Does it matter ? Do you win a trophy - how sad it is that they have created one and even more so that Liverpool fans are that concerned about it

      Guess i should blame the football manager generation

      I think you don’t understand how the manager works , he isn’t a cheque book manager and just wants cash after cash

      We employed Klopp because of the methods and the manager he is , he proved that he can be a success despite not having the biggest budget at Dortmund and he is doing it again now with us - the clubs method and ethos is exactly why he is our manager and why he won’t be at a Chelsea or a PSG or City

      Jürgen Klopp said when united signed Pogba that it was insane

      We then signed Virgil and Alisson for massive fees and was questioned on it

      He said,dont listen to me I often talk sh*te

      Those two players catapulted us to a new level. If you ask him who are probably his two most important signings hed likely say those two

      If you dont think for example he wanted Werner and he may have to make do now he wasnt backed  then fair enough
      TameImpala
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25733: Aug 09, 2020 05:47:32 pm

      Maybe people need to read the official accounts that are submitted to the HMRC to understand the finances at the club.

      Shirt deal is a smaller up front payment
      We aren’t making massive profits because of the increase in the wage bill .

      What increase in the wage bill? We've just sold Lovren who is on 100k p/w. Lallana and Clyne are also now off the books, that's around £15 million a year in wage savings

      You're right on the shirt deal but in the long run it'll be much more lucrative than our previous deal, and most transfers work the same way (staggered payments over a certain length of time) - its not as though we'd need to stump up the full amount in cash if we were to sign a player


      But it’s sad now that it’s got to a stage when fans appear to want players to sign as opposed to winning trophies.

      I'm not arsed who we sign & I've said loads of times I haven't got an issue with the current system as it's served us well up to now. All I was doing was countering the initial point where somebody tried to draw a comparison between what happened to Leeds United & the prospect of us spending a few quid to improve our squad
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25734: Aug 09, 2020 06:00:00 pm
      Jürgen Klopp said when united signed Pogba that it was insane

      We then signed Virgil and Alisson for massive fees and was questioned on it

      He said,dont listen to me I often talk sh*te

      Those two players catapulted us to a new level. If you ask him who are probably his two most important signings hed likely say those two

      If you dont think for example he wanted Werner and he may have to make do now he wasnt backed  then fair enough

      Those two were final pieces in a jigsaw that also includes - Mane , Salah , Fabinho etc.

      Even then we over paid on VVD because of the summer mess up.

      Either way the money was made available because of the income Including players sales
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25735: Aug 09, 2020 06:03:37 pm
      What increase in the wage bill? We've just sold Lovren who is on 100k p/w. Lallana and Clyne are also now off the books, that's around £15 million a year in wage savings

      You're right on the shirt deal but in the long run it'll be much more lucrative than our previous deal, and most transfers work the same way (staggered payments over a certain length of time) - its not as though we'd need to stump up the full amount in cash if we were to sign a player


      I'm not arsed who we sign & I've said loads of times I haven't got an issue with the current system as it's served us well up to now. All I was doing was countering the initial point where somebody tried to draw a comparison between what happened to Leeds United & the prospect of us spending a few quid to improve our squad


      The club will always spend what it has available to spend - and right now i suspect the club is being cautious because finances are a bit of an unknown due to Covid
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25736: Aug 09, 2020 06:10:10 pm
      New stand

      New training complex

      Another new stand on the way.

      roughly £100 million net spend since Klopp came.

      Our main rivals?
      Chelsea, oligarch money that is loaned to the club.

      City, cheating cu*ts.

      United, being bled dry by the glazers.

      Spus, a mess.

      Arsenal, a bigger mess.

      Leicester? Who knows? Currently punching well above their weight.

      We go toe to toe with a corrupt club, and win.
      We win the champions league.
      We win the club world cup.
      Should probably count the super cup as well.

      And STILL, the owners get slated.

      It'd serve some people right, if they just fu**ed off having sold us to another Hicks and Gilette.
      Then they'd really have something to moan about.

      Still not getting an answer to what was a pretty reasonable question either.
      Or maybe it's just there aren't many better owners of elite clubs around, and some can't admit it.
      bmck
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25737: Aug 09, 2020 06:10:18 pm
      Second part, Jürgen is a f**king genius who is the sole reason for our success currently

      Spot on. It's unbelievable what he has done.
      FSG had a period with Hodgson, moved on to Brendan Rogers.
      But our success is due to Jürgen.
      The most important piece of business was selling Cou and signing VVD and Alission, we turned a corner then imho, and the money from Cou funded it.
      FSG are sitting on a vastly more valuable asset now than when they took over.
      And Jürgen is the reason.
      The man has worked miracles on a modest budget.
      Amazing really.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25738: Aug 09, 2020 06:20:30 pm
      It's also very noticeable that the people who were slating Edwards and his team have gone very f**king quiet about that.

      Let's be clear, it wasn't Klopp's genius that identified Robertson, Salah, Mane, Firmino etc
      It was Edwards. The bloke some on here spent season after season pissing on.

      And who brought in Edwards and his team?

      For that matter, who brought in Klopp?

      Who has rebuilt the club from the ground up after the decades of neglect?

      Have a f**king day off with this sh*te, and remember the mess we were in after Moores and his lazy arse sidekick sold us down the f**king river after spending almost 20 years doing f**k all as we fell further and further behind.
      Some short f**king memories alright.
      chats
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25739: Aug 09, 2020 06:25:35 pm
      To me, hiring the right footballing people and spending what you make is the absolute bare minimum an owner of a club should be doing. The fact that H&G were absolute cu*ts has made those basic things look like great ones.

      I don't think they've done much to warrant being slaughtered (although the ticketing thing and the furlous fiasco still disappoints me) but at the same time I don't think they've done a great deal that's worth a sh*t tonne of praise either.

      We're back at the top because Jürgen Klopp has worked a miracle.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25740: Aug 09, 2020 06:33:25 pm
      To me, hiring the right footballing people and spending what you make is the absolute bare minimum an owner of a club should be doing. The fact that H&G were absolute cu*ts has made those basic things look like great ones.

      I don't think they've done much to warrant being slaughtered (although the ticketing thing and the furlous fiasco still disappoints me) but at the same time I don't think they've done a great deal that's worth a sh*t tonne of praise either.

      We're back at the top because Jürgen Klopp has worked a miracle.

      And yet for 25 years, that "bare minimum" didn't happen.

      We weren't competeing on a commercial level, the stadium badly needed an upgrade, as did our training facilities (which has cost what? £170 million quid or so for the 2).

      We were so far behind, it was embarrassing.

      Now we've caught up, and all some people can do is whine we aren't spending as much as corrupt clubs.
      It's f**king mental.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25741: Aug 09, 2020 06:40:32 pm
      Just to add to that mate.

      I've seen people using the 'what happens if one of the front three gets injured' argument as regards signings and adding 'we've been lucky with injuries'. The reason we've kept injuries to a minimum is because of the medical staff the club have employed so kudos needs to be given for that also.

      Yep.
      Fatigue monitoring has been taken to a whole new level, along with tailored training for individuals that is constantly monitored and adapted depending on tiredness.

      On top of that, city's "strong bench" got a kick in the hole because they couldn't keep a player happy despite paying him fortunes.
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25742: Aug 09, 2020 07:07:31 pm
      Agreed.

      One of the things that's noticeable throughout the season is if Mo, Bobby or Sadio are left out for a match or come on as a late sub it's not generally questioned, we just accept that it's for a reason and that's because we trust that it's justified. We can't, or shouldn't, start using it in a transfer window just to justify our personal standpoint as regards the owners spending, that's just f**king lazy.

      There's a few doctors at my golf club, and one of them is a big football fan (City, but old school), so he takes a big interest in developments in sports science, and injury prevention.
      There's some injuries you obviously can't do anything about.
      But there's a lot you can do to reduce the likelihood of fatigue related injuries, inlcuding regular blood tests to look for certain markers which indicate tiredness/fatigue.

      He knows his stuff, and is very into all this malarkey.
      He spoke about it for a good while, but I barely understood a lot of it  :laugh:

      It's another piece in the jigsaw of the teams that work behind the scenes, which we rarely hear about, but which are hugely important.
      shawspeed
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25743: Aug 10, 2020 06:24:26 pm

      Maybe people need to read the official accounts that are submitted to the HMRC to understand the finances at the club.

      Shirt deal is a smaller up front payment
      We aren’t making massive profits because of the increase in the wage bill .

      We will have potentially an big impact on the finances because of Covid

       But it’s sad now that it’s got to a stage when fans appear to want players to sign as opposed to winning trophies.

      Is the Covid thing not being overplayed. Surely only matchday income is affected. Revenue last season was £95m for the full season. 4 games out of 19 had no spectators so that is a loss of approx £20m.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25744: Aug 10, 2020 06:46:36 pm
      Is the Covid thing not being overplayed. Surely only matchday income is affected. Revenue last season was £95m for the full season. 4 games out of 19 had no spectators so that is a loss of approx £20m.

      It’s not so much the season that’s just finished that is the issue. You’re right when you say about it only being 4 games out of 19 with no fans in the stadium and I think I read that it was a loss of between 12-20mill. However, it’s not just the home games, there is the away ticket allocation that has been lost so that 8 or so games we’ve now taken a hit on in that regard. In the grand scheme of things, it’s not a massive loss so far for a club of our size, however, there is no sign of stadiums being full again for a while yet, for all we know it could be an entire season of behind closed doors, and that’s when it is a massive loss.

      I think prize money has also been reduced this season and some of the broadcasting payments too.

      If clubs want to pump a load of money in for transfers then fair play, crack on and take the risk, but I can completely understand why we aren’t taking the risk because I have no doubts at all that there will be some clubs who end up in big trouble financially because they’ve overspent this summer.

      We are in the lucky position that our squad just needs fine tuning in a few areas, we don’t need a massive overhaul of players or drastic decisions made to try and play catch up.

      You can’t please everyone, some people will moan about a lack of investment this summer but you can guarantee that those people will also happily slate the owners for overspending and putting us at risk if revenue doesn’t return for a while.

      We have enough players we need to sell that should generate what we need this summer and at the same time, I’d like to think that the owners will put a bit of money forward too but if they don’t then they don’t, they have never really done so before so why should now be any different.
      « Last Edit: Aug 10, 2020 06:54:23 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25745: Aug 10, 2020 07:07:35 pm
      It’s not so much the season that’s just finished that is the issue. You’re right when you say about it only being 4 games out of 19 with no fans in the stadium and I think I read that it was a loss of between 12-20mill. However, it’s not just the home games, there is the away ticket allocation that has been lost so that 8 or so games we’ve now taken a hit on in that regard. In the grand scheme of things, it’s not a massive loss so far for a club of our size, however, there is no sign of stadiums being full again for a while yet, for all we know it could be an entire season of behind closed doors, and that’s when it is a massive loss.

      I think prize money has also been reduced this season and some of the broadcasting payments too.

      If clubs want to pump a load of money in for transfers then fair play, crack on and take the risk, but I can completely understand why we aren’t taking the risk because I have no doubts at all that there will be some clubs who end up in big trouble financially because they’ve overspent this summer.

      We are in the lucky position that our squad just needs fine tuning in a few areas, we don’t need a massive overhaul of players or drastic decisions made to try and play catch up.

      You can’t please everyone, some people will moan about a lack of investment this summer but you can guarantee that those people will also happily slate the owners for overspending and putting us at risk if revenue doesn’t return for a while.

      We have enough players we need to sell that should generate what we need this summer and at the same time, I’d like to think that the owners will put a bit of money forward too but if they don’t then they don’t, they have never really done so before so why should now be any different.

      It was mostly TV money. The teams had to pay back TV money that had been paid out to the various carriers. It was a very large sum of money from what I understand.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25746: Aug 10, 2020 07:10:46 pm

      Maybe people need to read the official accounts that are submitted to the HMRC to understand the finances at the club.

      We had some ex-forumites who probably could of got a doctorate for doing that during the protesting over G & H.
      shawspeed
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25747: Aug 10, 2020 07:21:56 pm
      It was mostly TV money. The teams had to pay back TV money that had been paid out to the various carriers. It was a very large sum of money from what I understand.

      Did the money actually have to be paid back in the end given that all of our matches were televised. I thought it was just a threat if the null and voiders got their way.
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25748: Aug 10, 2020 08:38:02 pm
      Did the money actually have to be paid back in the end given that all of our matches were televised. I thought it was just a threat if the null and voiders got their way.

      Oh, dunno, last I had read that is where the biggest loss was going to be.
      heimdall
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #25749: Aug 11, 2020 08:23:45 am
      Did the money actually have to be paid back in the end given that all of our matches were televised. I thought it was just a threat if the null and voiders got their way.

      Its a good point, surely as the matches were televised that money did not need to be paid back or is the TV money dependent on fans being in the stadium which would be rather ironic ;-)

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