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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27140: Mar 01, 2021 07:27:43 pm
      The bricks and mortar allow the stadium to be enhanced to allow extra income to be earned by the club - extra income that then allows the manager to purchase players


      Itā€™s called the self sufficent method


      Man Utd built up Old Trafford to increase their matchday income to allow them to spend money when required - we are just the 25 years behind them


      FSG did not pay for anything as stated wrongfully in the post I was replying to.

      How many years behind LFC are the mancs in a football context?
      « Last Edit: Mar 01, 2021 07:33:07 pm by stuey »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27141: Mar 01, 2021 07:33:06 pm
      FSG did not pay for anything as stated in the post I was replying to.


      Well right now they have paid for it because the club have only paid back Ā£10mil of the loan they provided for the stadium upgrade.

      So right now they have paid for the stadium expansion and further money from them will be used to pay for the further expansion


      They could as easily down the line write off the loan
      Jurgenabelieveus
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27142: Mar 01, 2021 07:38:14 pm


      How many years behind LFC are the mancs in a football context?

      Well we have wonā€™t the league and the CL more recently than them so Iā€™d suggest we arenā€™t
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27143: Mar 01, 2021 07:42:50 pm
      FSG did not pay for anything as stated wrongfully in the post I was replying to.

      How many years behind LFC are the mancs in a football context?

      And in a football context - it depends on how far back you want to


      Over the last 30 years they have won

      13 leagues - 2 CL

      They went past our league record as well in that period


      But right now our squad is better than theirs




      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27144: Mar 01, 2021 07:43:34 pm
      Seen this posted elsewhere


      FSG and Liverpool FCā€™s biggest challenge

      February 24, 2021

      Liverpoolā€™s season has been about how to best handle curveball after curveball, but it has also shed light on the vital transformation which needs to take place in the summer.

      ā€˜Sometimes life is going to hit you in the head with a brick. Donā€™t lose the faithā€™ ā€“ Steve Jobs

      Right now, pretty much everyone with a connection to Liverpool FC is entitled to feel theyā€™ve been hit in the head with a brick, and it gets harder with each bad result to keep the faith. But if you are going to listen to a few words of wisdom, Steve Jobs is somebody who never lost sight of his vision and what he wanted to achieve. He was never afraid to fail and always learnt from it when he did.

      This season at Liverpool has been a nightmare from the start, with no fans impacting our intensity, injuries completely killing the balance and chemistry in the team, and every 50-50 decision going against us. So, there are reasons ā€“ not excuses ā€“ but cold, hard factual reasons why Liverpool are in a rut right now. They donā€™t need lots of analysis as they are clear for everyone to see.
      But, to ignore what is happening or write it off just as bad luck is actually a missed opportunity. What this season has exposed is that Liverpool have become a well-oiled machine under Klopp, with the system being as important as any one player.

      But that system is broken right now and we donā€™t have an alternative way of playing when we lose key attributes ā€“ such as pace at centre back. We keep on trying to play the same way, but we are trying to do it with a patched-up engine and it just isnā€™t working.

      When things arenā€™t going well it is really tempting to point the finger of blame ā€“ and mistakes have been made at Liverpool this season. The failure to recruit a new centre back earlier in January has had a huge impact on results and that sits with FSG. Whatever the reason, and yes there are big financial constraints with COVID, it was a risk that has backfired and could potentially have bigger consequences if there is no Champions League football at Anfield next season.



      Rebuilding the team


      The really easy answer to Liverpoolā€™s current problems are once the players and fans are back life will return to normal, and we will start being great again. There is of course every chance that might happen, but there are some real challenges coming up on the horizon that will need to be addressed as soon as this summer.

      One of the biggest concerns this season is how blunt Liverpoolā€™s attack has looked. Once again there are contributing factors such as a lack of pace at centre back exposing the high line, notably not allowing the full-backs the same freedom they have been used to.

      Our pressing has fallen off a cliff with Henderson and Fabinho sized holes in midfield. Thiago was brought in to help unpick the lock of a low block but has had to play across a patched-up midfield in roles that just donā€™t suit him. And our front three have looked off the pace as a collective ā€“ with only Mo Salah playing to his level consistently.

      Some of these problems can and will be fixed when players come back. Some are bigger issues. The biggest issue to solve is that there are far too many starting players too close to 30, including the front three. Love or loathe the FSG model for Liverpool, but if we keep Salah or Sadio Mane beyond this summer the resale value for those players will plummet. There is a big decision this summer on how we start to replace and refresh our attacking options. And it may well have to result in one of the trident moving on.


      With the emergence of Diogo Jota, it will likely see a more reduced role for Roberto Firmino next season, although I think talk of his demise is a little hasty. Firmino has always been a streaky player and he has suffered as much as anybody from the lack of intensity in our play. He is still a genius on his day, but Jota offers more of a goal threat at this moment.

      In addition to refreshing our attack, it is likely we will need to replace Gini Wijnaldum in the summer and make a big decision about Naby Keita. At 26, he is at the perfect age, but his injury record is a real worry. He should be a nailed-on starter next season and if he canā€™t be then we need a similar type of player that can be relied upon.

      The other immediate issue to solve is fleshing out the squad. This season has proven that although we have some decent squad players in one-off games like Xherdan Shaqiri, Divock Origi and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, they have not been able to step up consistently enough. The squad needs to be deeper so that Klopp has real game-changing options from the bench.



      How are we going to afford it?

      The polarisation of opinion on FSG has become a bit of a nonsensical sideshow at Liverpool. It has become so black and white ā€“ love or hate ā€“ whereas like most things in football and life the answer lies in shades of grey.

      They have been good owners, who have made plenty of mistakes but have done what they said they were going to do. Theyā€™ve always said no deficit spending so it is pointless beating them up for not doing that, but theyā€™ve also overseen some incredible moments ā€“ including hiring Klopp ā€“ so it is hard to argue the model canā€™t work.

      One of the reasons the club is well run is that the wage bill is heavily incentivised. So, when we are doing well that is reflected in the wage bill which last year was one of the highest in Europe at Ā£300 million, but if we do not do well thatā€™ll flex downwards. It is designed to flex up or down in line with income and success, which means the club isnā€™t stuck with a huge fixed-wage bill if we spend a season out of the Champions League, for example (not saying that will happen).

      Another factor to consider is that most deals in todayā€™s market are spread over the course of a playersā€™ contract. So the upfront fee doesnā€™t usually need to be paid all at once, as seen with Jota. This once again becomes a factor if we do have a drop in income but expect to recover that in future seasons like Champions League money.


      It is also looking likely fans will be back at Anfield from the start of next season and that will go a long way to plugging the black hole of matchday revenue. That certainty will allow all clubs, including Liverpool, to budget for that income which theyā€™ve not been able to do since COVID hit.

      And last but not least, Michael Edwards has proven time and again that he is excellent at player trading. You can call it ā€˜sell to buyā€™, or you can call it smart player trading. With some of the issues around COVID hopefully becoming less of an influence in the next window, Edwards will hopefully be able to move on the surplus players and reinvest that in the right players. He has a lot of work to do in the summer, but his track record should give everyone confidence he will get it right.

      In the worst-case scenario without European football next season, there is no reason to expect that the ā€˜modelā€™ will just fall down this summer. Players still want to play for Klopp and for Liverpool, and if they swerve the club as they will go a season without Champions League action I highly doubt theyā€™d have been the right fit anyway.



      The biggest challenge

      The hardest thing once you find success is sustaining it. FSG will know all about this having seen pockets of success at the Boston Red Sox, but struggling to make it sustainable against the financial might of the Yankees.

      But the expectations at Liverpool are on a completely different level (no disrespect to Red Sox fans), and ā€˜the modelā€™ needs to keep on evolving to keep Liverpool competing.

      The reason that next season poses the biggest challenge so far for FSG, Edwards and Klopp is that they have set the bar so high. The time has come to reinvent and rebuild, and it comes against a backdrop of reduced income and a difficult season. But this is a leadership team that have worked brilliantly well together thus far and come up with solutions to every single problem thrown at them. There is no reason to believe they canā€™t do the same again.

      Klopp has to evolve the style of play and come up with some new ideas to counter the low block that has caused so many problems this season. That wonā€™t just be fixed by players coming back.

      Edwards needs to play a blinder on player trading, and may well need to make a huge trade moving out one of our front three and bringing in a younger option. FSG need to make sure the resources are available, and if we do miss out on dining at the top table of European football, accept some more risk than theyā€™ve been comfortable with before.

      But all of these challenges can be overcome. The infrastructure at the club with a redeveloped Anfield and the new training facility at Kirby are solid foundations. With a fully fit squad, we still have the spine of a Premier League and Champions League-winning team.

      It might feel like we are being hit in the head with a brick at the moment, but there are plenty of reasons to keep the faith.

      And just to be 100 percent clear, the worst possible case scenario is losing out on the Champions League, that doesnā€™t mean itā€™s going to happen or simply accepted. But sometimes you need to cut through the noise and then you can see it doesnā€™t have to be Armageddon if you have a rogue bad season, which can happen to any club.

      Letā€™s be honest, surely we wonā€™t ever have another season like this one?
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27145: Mar 01, 2021 07:49:31 pm

      Well right now they have paid for it because the club have only paid back Ā£10mil of the loan they provided for the stadium upgrade.

      So right now they have paid for the stadium expansion and further money from them will be used to pay for the further expansion


      They could as easily down the line write off the loan

      Manicureing definitions to accommodate your agenda.

      The LOAN was to enable the club to carry out work on the ground and training facilities .

      Irrespective you maintain FSG are paying for the projects.

      Apparently continually referencing accounts has affected your grasp of the written word.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27146: Mar 01, 2021 07:51:17 pm
      Manicureing definitions to accommodate your agenda.

      The LOAN was to enable the club to carry out work on the ground and training facilities .

      Irrespective you maintain FSG are paying for the projects.

      Apparently continually referencing accounts has affected your grasp of the written word.

      Well right now they have paid for it


      They loaned the money to the club - the club spent the money and right now have paid a total of Ā£10mil back

      Thatā€™s just facts at the end of the day either way Iā€™m not sure what your issue with it is
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27147: Mar 01, 2021 08:13:57 pm
      Well right now they have paid for it


      They loaned the money to the club - the club spent the money and right now have paid a total of Ā£10mil back

      Thatā€™s just facts at the end of the day either way Iā€™m not sure what your issue with it is

      So you admit the club did pay for the work by way of a loan currently being repaid!!
      tezmac
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27148: Mar 01, 2021 08:22:36 pm
      We're fu**ed Loveren left no replacement, Virgil out for the season, we then loose Gomes and Matip, Fab has to come out of midfield along with Henderson, who are both now injured and what do we get to replace in the defence a 20 year old who is out of his depth, Klopp must be thinking of what's the point of going on, the owners had the chance to sort out the defence in Jan but left it till the last day to buy a replacement, the only reason we got Virg and Alison was because we sold Coutinho.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27149: Mar 01, 2021 08:25:58 pm
      So you admit the club did pay for the work by way of a loan currently being repaid!!


      🤷ā€ā™‚ļø I donā€™t think anything different has been said
      ed603em
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27150: Mar 01, 2021 09:36:07 pm
      If these would get their hands in their pockets mate and at least loan JĆ¼rgen the dosh for much needed players, a loan repaid by LFC as in the bricks and mortar work, job's good 'un.

      Failing that owners who had faith in the club rather than the out and out speculators our present 'custodians' appear to be.

      No bank is going to loan a club money using a player as security ... thatā€™s pure fantasy.

      Your comment about them being speculators is equally naive: of course they are speculators - all owners of premier league teams are to some extent first off, and Iā€™d rather have people who know about money running the club than what we had throughout the 1990s where we were run so badly that we are still trying to close the commercial gap with Man Utd ... the irony is that you moan they wonā€™t get ā€œtheir hands in their pocketsā€ and then in the next breath criticise them for taking action to ensure they have the means to do so!
      ed603em
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27151: Mar 01, 2021 09:38:41 pm
      So you admit the club did pay for the work by way of a loan currently being repaid!!

      Financial fair play ... I donā€™t think owners are allowed to give clubs ā€œgiftsā€ any more - correct me if Iā€™m wrong but Iā€™m pretty sure thatā€™s how it has to be now
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27152: Mar 01, 2021 09:42:49 pm
      Financial fair play ... I donā€™t think owners are allowed to give clubs ā€œgiftsā€ any more - correct me if Iā€™m wrong but Iā€™m pretty sure thatā€™s how it has to be now

      Owners can spend any level of money on stadiums and training facilities etc
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27153: Mar 01, 2021 10:56:31 pm
      No bank is going to loan a club money using a player as security ... thatā€™s pure fantasy.

      What tangent are you into?
      I referred to FSG loaning the club money for bricks and mortar and was curious as to why the same can't be done to acquire players; we are a football club not a building society!
      Quote

      Your comment about them being speculators is equally naive: of course they are speculators - all owners of premier league teams are to some extent first off, and Iā€™d rather have people who know about money running the club than what we had throughout the 1990s where we were run so badly that we are still trying to close the commercial gap with Man Utd ... the irony is that you moan they wonā€™t get ā€œtheir hands in their pocketsā€ and then in the next breath criticise them for taking action to ensure they have the means to do so!

      ??
      weareliverpool
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27154: Mar 03, 2021 09:01:53 am
      We're fu**ed Loveren left no replacement, Virgil out for the season, we then loose Gomes and Matip, Fab has to come out of midfield along with Henderson, who are both now injured and what do we get to replace in the defence a 20 year old who is out of his depth, Klopp must be thinking of what's the point of going on, the owners had the chance to sort out the defence in Jan but left it till the last day to buy a replacement, the only reason we got Virg and Alison was because we sold Coutinho.

      true,Rafa once said ""We canā€™t be looking for players in August because then you end up with the second or third choice on your list.ā€ this is what happened at the end of January 2021.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27155: Mar 03, 2021 11:51:21 am

      🤷ā€ā™‚ļø I donā€™t think anything different has been said

      It most certainly has!
      The FSG faithful credit the owners with the building work etc, apart from the monies in legal costs and extraordinary expenses put at Ā£350m+ when they acquired LFC, further projects have been by way of loans to the club.

      If Klopp hadn't signed and his genius brought us the success that quelled the unrest, we could be surveying an entirely different situation.
      Our current predicament is down to faulted economies.
      You are well aware of this but continue with your bullshit.
      ruthcity
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27156: Mar 03, 2021 01:03:56 pm
      It most certainly has!
      The FSG faithful credit the owners with the building work etc, apart from the monies in legal costs and extraordinary expenses put at Ā£350m+ when they acquired LFC, further projects have been by way of loans to the club.

      If Klopp hadn't signed and his genius brought us the success that quelled the unrest, we could be surveying an entirely different situation.
      Our current predicament is down to faulted economies.
      You are well aware of this but continue with your bullshit.

      The difference lies in each of our expectations. Some desire for the owners to make every available dollar for player acquisition. Some go even further to desire the owners to continually pump money into club to bolster the squad. The reality is our owners have an eye on expanding the club commercially, where available money is used for capacity expansion etc. Doing a Man City or Roman Abramovich is not going to happen.

      Thereā€™s nothing wrong with either approach. One focuses on squad strengthening to win games - which makes fans happy. One strengthen the operational strength of the entire club - which secures more funding in the future. The exception is fans who do not see direct squad strengthening may become impatient due to lack of wins.

      It is what it is. We are never getting City or Roman type of owner for now. The only thing left to do is perhaps to judge them or to lament.

      Letā€™s say weā€™re all shareholders of this club. And every season thereā€™s an exercise to raise funds from all shareholders to pump in money for player acquisition. Iā€™d grow tired of not seeing a financial return, sacrificing annual dividends and continually asked to pour more and more money every season to fund players. As a shareholder I donā€™t desire that. I think few of us would. Iā€™d want a good return for being a shareholder and part owner. You got to love the club enough as an owner to do a Roman.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27157: Mar 03, 2021 02:16:35 pm
      It most certainly has!
      The FSG faithful credit the owners with the building work etc, apart from the monies in legal costs and extraordinary expenses put at Ā£350m+ when they acquired LFC, further projects have been by way of loans to the club.

      If Klopp hadn't signed and his genius brought us the success that quelled the unrest, we could be surveying an entirely different situation.
      Our current predicament is down to faulted economies.
      You are well aware of this but continue with your bullshit.


       :mad:

      The owners loaned the money the club to build up the stadium - right now the club have paid a total of Ā£10mil back with the owners not pushing for any further money to be paid back . You can try and twist whatever you want - they gave money to the club to use.

      Not sure what the issue is there 🤷ā€ā™‚ļø


      And who gives a flying F**k if Klopp hadnā€™t signed 🤷ā€ā™‚ļø - he did sign so imaginary scenarios without him are irrelevant


      Our current predicament is down to having double the amount of injures through the season than any other team 🤦ā€ā™‚ļø
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27158: Mar 03, 2021 02:40:51 pm

      🤷ā€ā™‚ļø I donā€™t think anything different has been said

      It most certainly has!
      The FSG faithful credit the owners with the building work etc, apart from the monies in legal costs and extraordinary expenses put at Ā£350m+ when they acquired LFC, further projects have been by way of loans to the club.

      If Klopp hadn't signed and his genius brought us the success that quelled the unrest, we could be surveying an entirely different situation.
      Our current predicament is down to faulted economies.
      You are well aware of this but continue with your bullshit.

      The difference lies in each of our expectations. Some desire for the owners to make every available dollar for player acquisition. Some go even further to desire the owners to continually pump money into club to bolster the squad. The reality is our owners have an eye on expanding the club commercially, where available money is used for capacity expansion etc. Doing a Man City or Roman Abramovich is not going to happen.

      Thereā€™s nothing wrong with either approach. One focuses on squad strengthening to win games - which makes fans happy. One strengthen the operational strength of the entire club - which secures more funding in the future. The exception is fans who do not see direct squad strengthening may become impatient due to lack of wins.

      It is what it is. We are never getting City or Roman type of owner for now. The only thing left to do is perhaps to judge them or to lament.

      Letā€™s say weā€™re all shareholders of this club. And every season thereā€™s an exercise to raise funds from all shareholders to pump in money for player acquisition. Iā€™d grow tired of not seeing a financial return, sacrificing annual dividends and continually asked to pour more and more money every season to fund players. As a shareholder I donā€™t desire that. I think few of us would. Iā€™d want a good return for being a shareholder and part owner. You got to love the club enough as an owner to do a Roman.

      To reiterate why won't the owners for the first time in their tenure, loan this club monies to help in the actual sporting area of an investment that now stands at Ā£2bn?
      Why do you people bring up the analogy of Abrmovich and Chelsea?

      This club has never been run in the way Chelski or Citeh have so why start now?

      The owners illustrate the point by not lashing millions at building improvements but loaning the club monies to the club to carry out the Anfield extension and training facilities, the obvious question is why not do the same for one or two urgent player requirements ?

      « Last Edit: Mar 03, 2021 03:04:43 pm by stuey »
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27159: Mar 03, 2021 02:45:04 pm

       :mad:

      The owners loaned the money the club to build up the stadium - right now the club have paid a total of Ā£10mil back with the owners not pushing for any further money to be paid back . You can try and twist whatever you want - they gave money to the club to use.

      Not sure what the issue is there 🤷ā€ā™‚ļø


      And who gives a flying F**k if Klopp hadnā€™t signed 🤷ā€ā™‚ļø - he did sign so imaginary scenarios without him are irrelevant


      Our current predicament is down to having double the amount of injures through the season than any other team 🤦ā€ā™‚ļø

      You imply that the owners are giving away millions!?!?
      Do you have any terms of contract or actual proof this is the case?
      Swab
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27160: Mar 03, 2021 03:06:13 pm
      As if the bullshit in this thread isn't bad enough, having to wade through gibberish that someone mistakenly thinks makes them sound intelligent is enough to put anyone off reading this.
      Mmmklopp
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27161: Mar 03, 2021 03:12:01 pm
      They loaned the club money to build a new stand which they'll make profit on.

      So the fact that it's a loan means they'll receive their money back whilst also making a profit. They've not done us a favour.

      If I borrow you money to buy a taxi whilst you agree to split your profit with me have I done you a favour? Yes, you got a taxi from me but I'm getting paid back in full whilst also in line to receive profit from the original money I borrowed you.

      Anyone, without FSG tinted glasses on, can see we're a sell to buy club. Look at the centre backs we brought in!!! Just look.

      Where's the Preston geeza we bought? How's he getting on? Did you lot see his amazing double block last week? No you didn't. Why? Because he doesn't start. Why? Because he's not good enough!!! We let go of Minamino to bring them in.

      Once again it was sell to buy even in an extreme situation.

      There will be no overhaul, there will be no big signings without us losing a big player.

      We are a sell to buy club.

      Feel free to disagree with me but for you regular abusers that will come to attack me it's a sweet f*ck you in advance
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #27162: Mar 03, 2021 03:31:32 pm
      You imply that the owners are giving away millions!?!?
      Do you have any terms of contract or actual proof this is the case?


      I havenā€™t implied anything - itā€™s simple , the owners provided money for the stadium to be built up and so far the club have paid Ā£10mil back of that money.

      What are you struggling with 🤷ā€ā™‚ļø

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