NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

It's like points are made and people just act blind to them.

If they need proof of us being a sell to buy club they can refer to the year we signed no one because we needed to "pay bills".

https://www.skysports.com/app/transfer/news/12691/11772106/Jürgen-klopp-on-liverpool-spending-we-are-not-in-fantasy-land

No ond sold meant no one bought

I am not blind to the fact we had just won the European Cup and achieved 96 points when Klopp said that and won the league in the following season but please don't let that get in the way of a good moan!

What are the points being made, by the way? Do you want Liverpool to be in the same fantasy land as City and PSG, is that it?

I am not blind to the fact we had just won the European Cup and achieved 96 points when Klopp said that and won the league in the following season but please don't let that get in the way of a good moan!

What are the points being made, by the way? Do you want Liverpool to be in the same fantasy land as City and PSG, is that it?

Maybe there's a middle ground?

Where you aren't City and PSG buying uber expensive players every summer, but occasionally you speculate to accumulate when the opportunity arises.

I don't think there's any way we could pull of an Mbappe deal this summer, but it sure would be nice to have that option. To buy a generational talent when he becomes "available", someone that raises the profile of the team and can become a mainstay for years to come.

I know we aren't one player away or anything, but the constant excuses that are peddled for why we can't spend like some of the teams that we are competing with just get old. We are meant to compete with Man City, United, Chelsea yet we have to do it on a much lower budget. It's just frustrating at times.

In their defense, FSG have never deviated from saying the club would only spend what it makes. Fair enough but that might not be good enough for us to stay established as the dominant force were were the last couple of years.

Maybe there's a middle ground?

Where you aren't City and PSG buying uber expensive players every summer, but occasionally you speculate to accumulate when the opportunity arises.

I don't think there's any way we could pull of an Mbappe deal this summer, but it sure would be nice to have that option. To buy a generational talent when he becomes "available", someone that raises the profile of the team and can become a mainstay for years to come.

I know we aren't one player away or anything, but the constant excuses that are peddled for why we can't spend like some of the teams that we are competing with just get old. We are meant to compete with Man City, United, Chelsea yet we have to do it on a much lower budget. It's just frustrating at times.

In their defense, FSG have never deviated from saying the club would only spend what it makes. Fair enough but that might not be good enough for us to stay established as the dominant force were were the last couple of years.

I think that is a much fairer assessment but let's not forget we had recently broken the world's transfer record for a defender and then for a goalkeeper when Klopp talked about not being in a 'fantasy land' - we had a net spend of about £130m the season prior to that. It's surely not as if we have been trying to build a squad with pocket change and hoping for the best, and I would argue someone like van Dijk is a generational talent.

We expanded the stadium, are looking to expand even further and built a new training centre, all the while having the second biggest wage bill in the Premier League. Yet, people try to make it sound as if we have done it "on the cheap".



Wages are also a lot more strongly correlated to success than transfer expenditure, and seems like a smarter way of building and keeping a strong squad.

Also, LFC these days generate a lot more revenue than it did before FSG and this is to their credit. Even if we had an owner putting money into the team, if the club were not such a well run business then we might even so not have as much money to spend.

I thought reaching two UCL finals and achieving 196 points over two seasons was pretty consistent. I have shown you before, however,  that, differently from what you have stated, we were extremely unlucky with injuries this season. This was by no means a normal season. In any case, the core of the team that won the league in such style is still around and some positions have even been improved. If we go through years without a trophy again then I will also be questioning their decisions, but after 3 fantastic seasons, I find you apparent confidence that this team is done very odd.

The fact remains a failure to consolidate on the strength of last season lead to our weaknesses being exposed this term.
No amount of theorizing can alter the fact.

I think that is a much fairer assessment but let's not forget we had recently broken the world's transfer record for a defender and then for a goalkeeper when Klopp talked about not being in a 'fantasy land' - we had a net spend of about £130m the season prior to that. It's surely not as if we have been trying to build a squad with pocket change and hoping for the best, and I would argue someone like van Dijk is a generational talent.

We expanded the stadium, are looking to expand even further and built a new training centre, all the while having the second biggest wage bill in the Premier League. Yet, people try to make it sound as if we have done it "on the cheap".



Wages are also a lot more strongly correlated to success than transfer expenditure, and seems like a smarter way of building and keeping a strong squad.

Also, LFC these days generate a lot more revenue than it did before FSG and this is to their credit. Even if we had an owner putting money into the team, if the club were not such a well run business then we might even so not have as much money to spend.

Yea I get all that. But I think things like not buying a single player a couple summers back (wasn't it coming off of the Champion's League win) and not replacing Lovren this past summer and then "panic buying" Davies and Oblak are things that show that while we've done pretty good all things considered, we still have hiccups to the policies in place. And yes I know we went on to win the league after not buying anyone, but surely had we strengthened even more, maybe this season we'd have been fighting the entire season for 1st instead of scratching and clawing to get in the top 4. Who knows...maybe not. For me, the owners haven't been horrible, but in some ways they seem to be terribly naïve.

Yea I get all that. But I think things like not buying a single player a couple summers back (wasn't it coming off of the Champion's League win) and not replacing Lovren this past summer and then "panic buying" Davies and Oblak are things that show that while we've done pretty good all things considered, we still have hiccups to the policies in place. And yes I know we went on to win the league after not buying anyone, but surely had we strengthened even more, maybe this season we'd have been fighting the entire season for 1st instead of scratching and clawing to get in the top 4. Who knows...maybe not. For me, the owners haven't been horrible, but in some ways they seem to be terribly naïve.

I think it's pretty clear that you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be so bothered by how much we spend or don't. All you see is that United spent 50M on Wan-Bissaka while we got Trent for "free", so to you we are not "backing Jürgen" because United spent 50M more than us on defense.

Over the past few years United has spent >300M (GBP) on Maguire, Fred, Pogba and Lukaku, none of which would even start on our team if everyone's healthy. Oh, but we got Gomez/Matip basically for free, and Fabinho, Bobby and Thiago cost only a little over 100M, therefore we can't compete with them because the Glazers back their team and ours don't. What a load of crap that logic is.

I think it's pretty clear that you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be so bothered by how much we spend or don't. All you see is that United spent 50M on Wan-Bissaka while we got Trent for "free", so to you we are not "backing Jürgen" because United spent 50M more than us on defense.

Over the past few years United has spent >300M (GBP) on Maguire, Fred, Pogba and Lukaku, none of which would even start on our team if everyone's healthy. Oh, but we got Gomez/Matip basically for free, and Fabinho, Bobby and Thiago cost only a little over 100M, therefore we can't compete with them because the Glazers back their team and ours don't. What a load of crap that logic is.

Way to completely miss the entire point of most of these posts. I don't care about Wan-Bissaka, I don't care about Maguire or Fred or Pogba or Lukaku (I like how you left out Bruno though ).

I believe I said that there's a middle ground between spending like United and Chelsea and having to offload players to be able to bring in necessary reinforcements, but all you are interested in is sucking off the owners so we're done here.

Way to completely miss the entire point of most of these posts. I don't care about Wan-Bissaka, I don't care about Maguire or Fred or Pogba or Lukaku (I like how you left out Bruno though ).

I believe I said that there's a middle ground between spending like United and Chelsea and having to offload players to be able to bring in necessary reinforcements, but all you are interested in is sucking off the owners so we're done here.

Bruno is obviously a good buy, but Maguire, Fred, Pogba and Lukaku shows there is no correlation between how much you pay and what you are actually buying, since in the eyes of people like you and others quality is only measured in transfer cost.

After Rat boy i would argue that the next best transfer United has made the past 2-3 years was Cavani, who saved their asses numerous times this past season and he came on a free.

The fact remains a failure to consolidate on the strength of last season lead to our weaknesses being exposed this term.
No amount of theorizing can alter the fact.

This all day long.

We had just won the Champions League and decided to sign no one. It was criminal! We went on to win the league but by then we allowed all the chasers to catch up.

They signed and a year later (2020-21) those signings had bedded in.

Chelsea went and got a European Champion team. You think they'll rest on their morals now?

No, they'll strengthen further.

We won the league but were then playing catch up on strengthening because we took a year out.

This summer will be exactly the same as all other summers. Either we sell a big boy or we won't be signing many more.

Origi got a new contract because Jürgen knew we wouldn't be signing no one after Madrid.

No I don't want a City, Psg or Chelsea but I want to spend more than Villa and Wolves.

I want to to be at the top and compteting to sign the best but also have some "unearthed gems" in the starting 11 to balance our outgoings

Bruno is obviously a good buy, but Maguire, Fred, Pogba and Lukaku shows there is no correlation between how much you pay and what you are actually buying, since in the eyes of people like you and others quality is only measured in transfer cost.

After Rat boy i would argue that the next best transfer United has made the past 2-3 years was Cavani, who saved their asses numerous times this past season and he came on a free.

They got their money back on Lukaku and will get their money back on Pogba

Way to completely miss the entire point of most of these posts. I don't care about Wan-Bissaka, I don't care about Maguire or Fred or Pogba or Lukaku (I like how you left out Bruno though ).

I believe I said that there's a middle ground between spending like United and Chelsea and having to offload players to be able to bring in necessary reinforcements, but all you are interested in is sucking off the owners so we're done here.

Amazing that isn’t it, talk about fitting his narrative

Imagine if we had done all this good work and spend half of what man united have spent on top.. we’d be unfuckingbelieveable… or even a third

We don’t, I get it, but imagine

This all day long.

We had just won the Champions League and decided to sign no one. It was criminal! We went on to win the league but by then we allowed all the chasers to catch up.

They signed and a year later (2020-21) those signings had bedded in.

Chelsea went and got a European Champion team. You think they'll rest on their morals now?

No, they'll strengthen further.

We won the league but were then playing catch up on strengthening because we took a year out.

This summer will be exactly the same as all other summers. Either we sell a big boy or we won't be signing many more.

Origi got a new contract because Jürgen knew we wouldn't be signing no one after Madrid.

No I don't want a City, Psg or Chelsea but I want to spend more than Villa and Wolves.

I want to to be at the top and compteting to sign the best but also have some "unearthed gems" in the starting 11 to balance our outgoings

It’s clear that some are more interested in who the club signs as opposed what we won

We won the CL and then won the league and there is nothing but complaining who is signed

In summer 19/20 - Chelsea were banned from signing players

City - bought Cancelo but lost Kompany etc


We then signed three players during the summer in 2020 - teams didnt “catch” up because of who we signed or didn’t sign they caught up because we had as season of unprecedented injuries that could never be covered by signings

Over the last 5 years we have spent £500mil

Villa £276mil
Wolves £268mil

Way to completely miss the entire point of most of these posts. I don't care about Wan-Bissaka, I don't care about Maguire or Fred or Pogba or Lukaku (I like how you left out Bruno though ).

I believe I said that there's a middle ground between spending like United and Chelsea and having to offload players to be able to bring in necessary reinforcements, but all you are interested in is sucking off the owners so we're done here.

Who did we offload to buy Kounte ?


Did we need to sell anyone to buy - Jota , Thiago and Kostas


The club is in the middle ground

It spends what it makes - just like Chelsea, UTD and everyone else bar City


Chelsea recently spending spree was off the back of selling Hazard and Morata for a fortune

I think the success the manager has brought has a tendency to colour perceptions of the owners. We only really started spending any money after Jürgen had already got us to a level to be able to do so through his shrewd management. His first two seasons we cleared out a load of deadwood and basically spent no more than we brought in even after reaching the EL final and finishing 4th in his 2nd season. We then went big with Virgil and Mo by virtue of the fact that we have a manager who was capable of getting Coutinho to look enough like the new Neymar that Barcelona decided to cough up a ridiculous sum of money for him.

By the time we reached the CL Final, which again was a minor miracle and largely due to the manager, we still hadn't really spent anything beyond the money generated through players sales. We lose the final in criminal fashion because our goalies are so inept we haven't yet signed a proper one. By this point of course we are making more money because success on the pitch brings its rewards off it. We then actually, finally, spend some money beyond what we've brought in because we realise we have a world class manager and to to do otherwise would be nuts.

We buy a proper goalie and a wonderful midfielder and we win the CL. The manager has built a world class team, selected, shaped and honed by him and, although we don't strengthen after winning the CL, he has built a machine that steamrollers opposition and pisses the league. Failing to add from a position of strength can come back to haunt you. We then spend modestly by comparison to other clubs and, critically, we fail to sign CB cover after allowing Lovren to leave. A weird collection of circumstances causes our season to unravel but we rally to salvage CL football for the coming season. The nature of the our progress has been highly contingent and defined by key signings at key moments. Take away one or two of these and things could have looked very different.

It’s clear that some are more interested in who the club signs as opposed what we won

We won the CL and then won the league and there is nothing but complaining who is signed

In summer 19/20 - Chelsea were banned from signing players

City - bought Cancelo but lost Kompany etc


We then signed three players during the summer in 2020 - teams didnt “catch” up because of who we signed or didn’t sign they caught up because we had as season of unprecedented injuries that could never be covered by signings

Over the last 5 years we have spent £500mil

Villa £276mil
Wolves £268mil

Our failure to add to the team came back to bite us in the ass when we had a defensive crisis.

How did they deal with that crisis? We must get rid to get in.

So off goes minamino and in comes Kabak.

We also signed a guy that played a total of Zero minutes, on £60k a week, from Preston North End.

The champions of England have a defensive crisis and sign a guy, whose team had not kept a clean sheet all season, and a guy from the lower depths of English football and give him £60k per week in the process.

Everyone linked to Liverpool came out, around early December, and started saying "Liverpool need to sign a defender Jan 1st". They were saying that because they know how cheap our owners are.

We signed someone Jan 31st!!

^^ this you couldn't make up.

We went in to a season with the best centre half on the planet and two injury prone partners for him. What were they expecting? Even if we didn't lose Virj were they really expecting Gomez and Matip to stay fit?

They've been exposed as cheapskates.

Bruno is obviously a good buy, but Maguire, Fred, Pogba and Lukaku shows there is no correlation between how much you pay and what you are actually buying, since in the eyes of people like you and others quality is only measured in transfer cost.

After Rat boy i would argue that the next best transfer United has made the past 2-3 years was Cavani, who saved their asses numerous times this past season and he came on a free.

But again, I'm not talking about just buying to buy. I'm saying when a generational talent like Haaland or Mbappe appear to come "available" it would be nice to ACTUALLY be able to be in the running. I mean look at Allison and VVD. We splashed big money on them and they instantly made us better. And had we not sold Coutinho, we wouldn't have gotten them both. Maybe Phil was bound to go anyway and it made everything tidy but wouldn't it be nice to not have to sell someone like that and still be able to splash big when an opportunity arose?

The fact remains a failure to consolidate on the strength of last season lead to our weaknesses being exposed this term.
No amount of theorizing can alter the fact.

It is not a theory but a demonstrable fact that we were very unlucky this past season, and any team would have felt the impact of that - even those in the 'fantasy land'.

Of course you choose not to engage with any of my questions though and prefer to resort to the constant moaning without having to back it up with much reasoning. Good luck with that, because I am done

It was criminal! We went on to win the league

I want to to be at the top and compteting to sign the best but also have some "unearthed gems" in the starting 11 to balance our outgoings

And do you think we have not been a top team? Yeah we had a difficult season, but a very unusual one at that. And we broke world records for players currently in the squad, which is, I think, the definition of competing for the best players. Also, many of those  players that are seem as "gems" now or "clever signings" (because our amazing recruitment team got it right - again, credit to the club) like Salah, Mané or even Diogo Jota, none of them were exactly cheap, and at the time we bought them, there were plenty of people to actually criticise the amount spent.

Moreover, the obsession with transfer fee spending is bizarre - the year we won the league (after the "criminal" mistake of not signing anyone and then collecting 99 points) we had the second biggest wage bill in the league - it is too easy to be critical and then refuse to engage with those facts.

I think the success the manager has brought has a tendency to colour perceptions of the owners. We only really started spending any money after Jürgen had already got us to a level to be able to do so through his shrewd management. His first two seasons we cleared out a load of deadwood and basically spent no more than we brought in even after reaching the EL final and finishing 4th in his 2nd season. We then went big with Virgil and Mo by virtue of the fact that we have a manager who was capable of getting Coutinho to look enough like the new Neymar that Barcelona decided to cough up a ridiculous sum of money for him.

By the time we reached the CL Final, which again was a minor miracle and largely due to the manager, we still hadn't really spent anything beyond the money generated through players sales. We lose the final in criminal fashion because our goalies are so inept we haven't yet signed a proper one. By this point of course we are making more money because success on the pitch brings its rewards off it. We then actually, finally, spend some money beyond what we've brought in because we realise we have a world class manager and to to do otherwise would be nuts.

We buy a proper goalie and a wonderful midfielder and we win the CL. The manager has built a world class team, selected, shaped and honed by him and, although we don't strengthen after winning the CL, he has built a machine that steamrollers opposition and pisses the league. Failing to add from a position of strength can come back to haunt you. We then spend modestly by comparison to other clubs and, critically, we fail to sign CB cover after allowing Lovren to leave. A weird collection of circumstances causes our season to unravel but we rally to salvage CL football for the coming season. The nature of the our progress has been highly contingent and defined by key signings at key moments. Take away one or two of these and things could have looked very different.

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with many of the points here, I think you're purposefully making it sound as if it is all about one man. And in the end, let us not forget that Jürgen Klopp was their appointment - they have managed to attract one of the world's best, gave him time to build and equipped him with the tools to succeed and retain a great squad. I think it doesn't just "colour" people's perceptions, I think it has to - certainly reflects well on them. Backing a manager isn't just about transfer spending, or else the likes of Salah could be playing for Real Madrid right now. And among the tools Klopp has been given, you could include one of the world's best recruitment teams and, despite your assertion that the team has been entirely "selected" by Klopp - as if it was the work of his individual genius -, plenty of reports suggest that our recruitment team have been crucial to our recent success.

Am I necessarily happy that we didn't sign a CB early last season? No, if anything because Gomez and Matip have always been injury prone. But this past season has been beyond all reasonable expectation - when even your DMs turned CBs get injured, there is no planning for that. We could've been stronger but do people honestly believe that among all the chaos and disruption in our season, one additional CB signed at the start of the season ("to replace Lovren", of all people) would have made a huge difference to our final standings? I honestly don't believe so.

Yea I get all that. But I think things like not buying a single player a couple summers back (wasn't it coming off of the Champion's League win) and not replacing Lovren this past summer and then "panic buying" Davies and Oblak are things that show that while we've done pretty good all things considered, we still have hiccups to the policies in place. And yes I know we went on to win the league after not buying anyone, but surely had we strengthened even more, maybe this season we'd have been fighting the entire season for 1st instead of scratching and clawing to get in the top 4. Who knows...maybe not. For me, the owners haven't been horrible, but in some ways they seem to be terribly naïve.

I know it was a typo but imagine panic buying Oblak!

I think every club has "hiccups" in their policies, for sure, and I for one wasn't thrilled with Davies or Kabak either. However, retrospectively complaining about us not signing anyone before a season we went on to achieve 99 points and win the league, I am sorry, this just doesn't make any sense to me. I would have expected that when a team goes on and gets 196 points in 2 seasons, this kinda vindicates its strength and depth. We could have signed an expensive player and they could not have performed, hardly making us even "stronger" - though I struggle to see how you could possibly be much stronger than 99 points. I also haven't forgotten that we were top of the league before this season got derailed by an unprecedented injury crisis. We won't win everything every year, not even Man City does despite their fantasy land passport, so there will always be space for saying we could have done this little thing better here or there, and that, I think, is perfectly normal but hardly something to get too hung up about.

And do you think we have not been a top team? Yeah we had a difficult season, but a very unusual one at that. And we broke world records for players currently in the squad, which is, I think, the definition of competing for the best players. Also, many of those  players that are seem as "gems" now or "clever signings" (because our amazing recruitment team got it right - again, credit to the club) like Salah, Mané or even Diogo Jota, none of them were exactly cheap, and at the time we bought them, there were plenty of people to actually criticise the amount spent.

Moreover, the obsession with transfer fee spending is bizarre - the year we won the league (after the "criminal" mistake of not signing anyone and then collecting 99 points) we had the second biggest wage bill in the league - it is too easy to be critical and then refuse to engage with those facts.

The simple answer for how we signed no one and walked the league down to two reasons.

1. Jürgen Klopp

2. Teams in transition.

On the second point we have United who were (and somehow still 😂) finding their feet under Ole. City were in a mini transition. Spurs just employed Mourinho. Chelsea had a transfer ban. Leicester are Leicester.

All the above allowed us to be so much better than the rest.

Now imagine if we would have smelt blood and signed three quality signings. Where would that have put us now? Instead we signed no one. Who the F**k signs no one?

Name me another team that wins the Champions League and signs no one.

A year on, from signing no one, and all the teams caught up.

We had a major major injury crisis. This masks NESV's tight fists VERY WELL. Even then, they exposed themselves with how they dealt with the crisis.

We can argue all day about these lot, I know where I stand.

Let's see how this summer goes and take it from there

Moreover, the obsession with transfer fee spending is bizarre - the year we won the league (after the "criminal" mistake of not signing anyone and then collecting 99 points) we had the second biggest wage bill in the league - it is too easy to be critical and then refuse to engage with those facts.

I’m struggling to believe this team of players are the 2nd highest paid players in the league...

Unless the wage bill you are mentioning includes all connected to the club, from owners, investors down to the tea lady...

Criticism is only amplified when the owners failed to back the manger early on in the Jan transfer window, playing players out of their natural positions cost us dearly.