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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      -LFC-
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28290: Jun 10, 2021 09:09:00 pm
      The manager has spent over Ā£560 million since he arrived at the club - he doesnt scrimp and save for pennies , Ā£560million on multiple players which have already been highlighted- does it matter where the money comes from , is VVD a better signing if the Ā£80mil came from a different source ?

      Itā€™s all part of the make up of how the team works - and itā€™s exactly how we worked in the 80ā€™s when I grew up , the club sold players and others arrived to replace them , there was no big pot of golf to dip into , the club worked within their financial boundaries and used their outstanding scouting and coaching team to build winning teams - they were bought using an endless purse of money as if player a football simulator

      As for the wage bill - through out the 90ā€™s and 00ā€™s we lost out on multiple players because the club didnā€™t pay the big wages as well as offer the wage increases to keep players , itā€™s as key to keeping a team successful and together as is winning trophies and buying players - even more so when itā€™s incentive based


      I donā€™t think anyone has suggested Klopp should be ā€œgratefulā€ or that he isnā€™t doing an outstanding job - itā€™s more the fact that Klopp canā€™t do it on his own - Klopp himself has said that yet some fans dismiss it


      Itā€™s like when things donā€™t go well the owners get the blame for not giving the manager the tools - one person canā€™t get all the credit when it goes well and one person canā€™t get all the blame when it doesnā€™t


      You've mentioned that figure a couple of times now so let's have a look.

      By my reckoning we have spent approximately Ā£475m on transfers in Klopp's five full seasons in charge with about Ā£355m of players leaving us. That's Ā£120m spent over and above player sales or Ā£24m per season on average.

      For the same period the Munts spent about Ā£700m and sold about Ā£200m worth of players. That's Ā£500m spent over and above what they brought in or Ā£100m per season, which is almost five times the amount spent.

      Could we have spent much less than we have and achieved the same level of success? What has been the key difference? The support of the owners, technical men, data scientists, or their respective managers?

      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28291: Jun 10, 2021 09:17:52 pm
      You've mentioned that figure a couple of times now so let's have a look.

      By my reckoning we have spent approximately Ā£475m on transfers in Klopp's five full seasons in charge with about Ā£355m of players leaving us. That's Ā£120m spent over and above player sales or Ā£24m per season on average.

      For the same period the Munts spent about Ā£700m and sold about Ā£200m worth of players. That's Ā£500m spent over and above what they brought in or Ā£100m per season, which is almost five times the amount spent.

      Could we have spent much less than we have and achieved the same level of success? What has been the key difference? The support of the owners, technical men, data scientists, or their respective managers?

      Iā€™m not bothered about what other clubs spend - other clubs have different financial models that they work too


      Man Utd spent fortunes and won what ?


      We spent less and won what ?


      One club is clearly doing their finances far better

      Man Utd spent more on Maguire than we did on VVD, Chelsea spent more on Kepa and Werner than we did on Alisson and Jota , Man Utd spent more on Fred than we did on Fabinho


      Is that a sign of a club that is clearly scouting their players better and buying the players that fit to what the manager wants ?


      The clear different between Man Utd and Liverpool over the 5 years in a multiple reasons - better players bought , better tactics , better coaching , better management

      Mmmklopp
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28292: Jun 10, 2021 09:58:37 pm

      Which players are you talking about ?


      How about VVD ? Didnā€™t he turn down both City and Chelsea ?


      If Mbappe is going for a free there is every chance would have a chance to get him - why wouldnā€™t we ?

      Because he'll want 350k per week and upwards.

      I've heard every man and his dog defend not signing world elite players because we "don't want to disrupt the wage structure". Am I wrong? Will Salah not demand to be on par with Mbappe?

      Picking Virgil, out of an extremely long list of players we missed out on when going head to head with other elite teams, is quite convenient to your narrative
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28293: Jun 10, 2021 10:04:30 pm
      Because he'll want 350k per week and upwards.

      I've heard every man and his dog defend not signing world elite players because we "don't want to disrupt the wage structure". Am I wrong? Will Salah not demand to be on par with Mbappe?

      Picking Virgil, out of an extremely long list of players we missed out on when going head to head with other elite teams, is quite convenient to your narrative

      The club already pays high wages and if he is available the club will look to see what they can offer him - and who cares what Salah would demand , he has a long contract already

      We wonā€™t spend Ā£100mil plus on a transfer fee for an ā€œelite world classā€ as you call them unless the money is available

      Can you show me this ā€œextremely long listā€ or players we have missed out on when going head to head with another club
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28294: Jun 10, 2021 11:45:30 pm
      The clear different between Man Utd and Liverpool over the 5 years in a multiple reasons - better players bought , better tactics , better coaching , better management



      Agreed. The fact that we have a manager who was able to build a team capable of winning the league and CL despite the huge disparity in spending with our main rivals shows how lucky we are to have him.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28295: Jun 10, 2021 11:47:38 pm
      Agreed. The fact that we have a manager who was able to build a team capable of winning the league and CL despite the huge disparity in spending with our main rivals shows how lucky we are to have him.

      Plus the fact we have a superb scouting team that were able to purchase the required players - also shows how lucky we have Edwards doing the transfers


      Itā€™s not just the manager.
      -LFC-
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28296: Jun 11, 2021 12:11:31 am
      Plus the fact we have a superb scouting team that were able to purchase the required players - also shows how lucky we have Edwards doing the transfers


      Itā€™s not just the manager.

      No but it is by and large given he is the guy that has the most important input into that process in the same way that he is the most important person when it comes to working with the players and getting them to perform on the pitch.

      If Edwards moved to Man Utd with Solskjaer as manager Iā€™m sure their hit rate would improve but they wouldnā€™t win anything all the same whereas I think if you gave Klopp their Ā£100m a season net but took away Edwards and hired another guru Iā€™m still quite sure he would be winning major trophies.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28297: Jun 11, 2021 12:22:05 am
      hydroxychloroquine, plenty evidence to suggest it destroys Covid... but letā€™s not deflect from the thread..

      Iā€™m not a net spender  or spend for the sake of it junkie or expect Ā£100 million spend on every player but you have to  questioning the wage bill.

      Haha :D sure, whatever.

      I just find the selective scepticism very amusing. You can always send an email to Ernst & Young, the independent auditors of Liverpool accounts, to let them know of your concerns regarding the veracity of their wage bills. Send them a twitter or reddit link to back it up too.
      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 12:43:08 am by Diego LFC »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28298: Jun 11, 2021 12:25:21 am
      They do concern me, and they have done since uber rich foreign owners started buying into the Premier League.

      We have no idea when or if FSG will sell, but reading between the lines, it looks like empire building rather than a fast quid.

      I really don't know how I feel about that.
      Liverpool is likely to be the Flagship club for any European expansion of the group, and as such, they'll want maximum exposure, which in turn means winning as much as possible.

      I reckon these types of groups are going to become more common, with owners having one big club, and several (or many) smaller clubs, both as feeders and revenue generators.

      Wealth always accumulates assets, and the trick then is to increase the worth of those assets.
      This doesn't necessarily mean selling them once they reach a certain level, it can also mean clout, prestige and power.
      Exactly the things billionaoires look for, because they cannot spend all the money they already have.

      Is it unrealistic to think the way the FSG principals realize the return on their investment is by selling their stakes in....FSG?

      It seems like selling the club for the kind of money being talked about is maybe not as likely given a seeming cap on how much the next owner(s) could raise the club's value. But the individual investors, large and small, could sell their part of FSG for a more attainable price tag (albeit a very lucrative one of the sellers). The club would continue to generate revenue of course and ideally would still be stewarded responsibly.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28299: Jun 11, 2021 12:36:29 am
      LFC is a speculator/market player's dream, guaranteed improved financial results year on year.

      Except in the last 20 years, it has posted losses in 11, including in the latest financial results.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28300: Jun 11, 2021 12:40:12 am
      add a lot of clever spreadsheet pics that amount to nothing

      I love the use of the word "clever" here - just because you don't understand something, it doesn't mean it amounts to nothing.

      When you are discussing finances, posting a few financial facts is a reasonable thing to do.
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28301: Jun 11, 2021 01:01:32 am
      Except in the last 20 years, it has posted losses in 11, including in the latest financial results.

      True, but the value of the club has skyrocketed regardless. Thatā€™s not really even questionable.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28302: Jun 11, 2021 01:06:42 am
      True, but the value of the club has skyrocketed regardless. Thatā€™s not really even questionable.

      Of course, which is a different thing. It was partly due to the market (the value of every PL club has increased in the last few years) and partly due to the club's performance on and off the pitch.

      There are no "guaranteed improved financial results" in competitive football though
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28303: Jun 11, 2021 01:58:05 am
      We donā€™t have the revenues to pay the wages or the promise of success to lure the best players if we arenā€™t getting to CL finals or challenging in the league.

      Which team has the 'promise of success' if they are not challenging? This sentence makes little sense to me. And every top club's revenues are impacted by finishing near the top and going far in the Champions League, so yeah, getting a top manager to help you get there is part of the job. Giving him a fair share of that revenue growth to continue improving his team is also a reasonable way to spend that extra money - for all the obsession about transfer fees, those are impacted by a multitude of factors and, unless you are spending in the billions like Man City, hardly guarantee you much success.

      In the 10 years since FSG have been at the club, revenues have increased by 165% and the wage bill by 169%. The club generates more money which in turn is spent in the team - it is a positive cycle and one thing doesn't happen without the other.

      And of course we have the revenues to attract players, now - as much as you try to make it sound as if increasing revenues was a ridiculously simple thing to do, our recent history shows it isn't, not quite. If we hadn't increased revenues in the years before 2016 by some 60%, we probably wouldn't even be able to attract a manager like Klopp.

      Similarly the fact that we spend more on wages than before or paid out big wage bonuses after winning the CL and league is because he has built a team that has been so successful. This is presented as further evidence of ā€˜backingā€™ when it is really a reflection of the manager being phenomenally good at his job.

      You said earlier you don't think it's all about one man but this kind of circular thought suggests that maybe you do, in all honesty. Of course a successful team is then going to make more, as all clubs use incentivised contracts these days. It also shows the club's willingness to spend to keep their best players, and that is indeed backing the manager and allowing him to continue his legacy.
      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 02:21:56 am by Diego LFC »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28304: Jun 11, 2021 07:07:22 am
      No but it is by and large given he is the guy that has the most important input into that process in the same way that he is the most important person when it comes to working with the players and getting them to perform on the pitch.

      If Edwards moved to Man Utd with Solskjaer as manager Iā€™m sure their hit rate would improve but they wouldnā€™t win anything all the same whereas I think if you gave Klopp their Ā£100m a season net but took away Edwards and hired another guru Iā€™m still quite sure he would be winning major trophies.


      To tell you how key Edwards is - Mo Salah

      During the summer that Mo Salah was bought he wasnā€™t the player Klopp wanted - Klopp wanted Brandt and it took Edwards to persuade Klopp that it was Salah who would be best suited to the Prem and the way Klopp wanted to play . That should show anyone how important Edwards and his team is within the process
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28305: Jun 11, 2021 07:28:02 am
      Because they're still dickheads - their involvement in the ESL proves that!!

      The issue was not their involvement but for me the issue was it was not on merit. I would have separated from UEFA but based on success not monopoly.

      Fenway Sports Group, have said they will pay the fine (European Super League) of Ā£3.3m themselves and not from Liverpoolā€™s budget.

      They were advised wrongly and  saw on the money like anyone of us would have done if we were in their place.

      They apologised and for me we would be worse without them.

      Now pull your cash out!
      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 07:33:43 am by clint_call01 »
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28306: Jun 11, 2021 10:05:56 am
      Except in the last 20 years, it has posted losses in 11, including in the latest financial results.

      If you want to be pedantic, LFC is a going concern with all that implies.
      There have been extraordinary statistics for instance when H&G and their ruinous tenure prevailed but in the main the club is a cast iron investment or as near as imaginable.

      That is the only scenario available to FSG fans, present a distorted, worst case example of the club's record in an effort to promote the carpetbaggers.

      To those who find the challenge to the FSG bullshit tiresome and boring, it is worth pointing out that while the bullshit is repeated often enough there are those here who are gullible to accept it as the truth.
      Worse still are those with a vested interest promoting such bullshit.
      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 10:18:34 am by stuey »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28307: Jun 11, 2021 10:29:53 am
      If you want to be pedantic, LFC is a going concern with all that implies.
      There have been extraordinary statistics for instance when H&G and their ruinous tenure prevailed but in the main the club is a cast iron investment or as near as imaginable.

      That is the only scenario available to FSG fans, present a distorted, worst case example of the club's record in an effort to promote the carpetbaggers.

      To those who find the challenge to the FSG bullshit tiresome and boring, it is worth pointing out that while the bullshit is repeated often enough there are those here who are gullible to accept it as the truth.
      Worse still are those with a vested interest promoting such bullshit.

      Baffle by bullshit
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28308: Jun 11, 2021 10:31:53 am
      The issue was not their involvement but for me the issue was it was not on merit. I would have separated from UEFA but based on success not monopoly.

      Fenway Sports Group, have said they will pay the fine (European Super League) of Ā£3.3m themselves and not from Liverpoolā€™s budget.

      They were advised wrongly and  saw on the money like anyone of us would have done if we were in their place.

      They apologised and for me we would be worse without them.


      FSG instigated the ESL debacle themselves and the suggestion that they were "advised" on the course of action is more alarming.

      Is it the case that FSG who haven't got a F***ing clue, are being guided by parties who themselves have no F***ing clue?
      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 10:38:13 am by stuey »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28309: Jun 11, 2021 10:46:35 am
      FSG instigated the ESL debacle themselves and the suggestion that they were "advised" on the course of action is more alarming.

      Is it the case that FSG who haven't got a f**king clue, are being guided by parties who themselves have no f**king clue?

      Any owner of the club would have gone into the ESL - just like they did with the Prem and then the CL , because they didnā€™t want to be left behind ,


      If the ESL did start with all the top clubs in it with all the top players in it and our owners didnā€™t enter then they would no doubt be slated for not entering


      Some people still have this deluded fantasy notion about football
      Mmmklopp
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28310: Jun 11, 2021 10:51:30 am
      Any owner of the club would have gone into the ESL - just like they did with the Prem and then the CL , because they didnā€™t want to be left behind ,


      If the ESL did start with all the top clubs in it with all the top players in it and our owners didnā€™t enter then they would no doubt be slated for not entering


      Some people still have this deluded fantasy notion about football

      My gosh do you ever not defend them?

      Honestly!

      Every post is a defense of NESV and anything associated to them. You're constantly here answering anyone that says anything against them.

      You've just defended them regarding the ESL. You're talking like they went in kicking and screaming. Didn't want to be left behind.

      They were the front runners, with United, for that sh*t show.

      Give it a rest. We get it. You love them and want them forever more. Ok great.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28311: Jun 11, 2021 10:54:09 am
      My gosh do you ever not defend them?

      Honestly!

      Every post is a defense of NESV and anything associated to them. You're constantly here answering anyone that says anything against them.

      You've just defended them regarding the ESL. You're talking like they went in kicking and screaming. Didn't want to be left behind.

      They were the front runners, with United, for that sh*t show.

      Give it a rest. We get it. You love them and want them forever more. Ok great.

      Are you incapable of seeing any middle ground at all 🤦ā€ā™‚ļø


      No one has ā€œdefendedā€ them for the ESL


      Itā€™s quite clear it was driven by Madrid and Co hence why they are still there battling away for it


      Whilst you are here have you found that ā€œlong list of players we missed out on when battling with othersā€
      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28312: Jun 11, 2021 11:04:31 am
      Any owner of the club would have gone into the ESL - just like they did with the Prem and then the CL , because they didnā€™t want to be left behind ,


      If the ESL did start with all the top clubs in it with all the top players in it and our owners didnā€™t enter then they would no doubt be slated for not entering


      Some people still have this deluded fantasy notion about football


      PSG, Bayern Munich disagree...

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