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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28336: Jun 11, 2021 11:55:01 am
      Sorry but we didnā€™t bid for most of those players and certainly didnā€™t offer any contracts to them


      You can provide some actually proof to back up showing we offered all those players contracts


      You need to stop believe all the transfer rumours you read 😂

      I'm not going to sit here finding links, I don't work for an anti FSG company.

      If you think all/most of those were false then ok.

      You can bring the Camel to the lake but can't force it to drink is what springs to mind
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28337: Jun 11, 2021 11:55:16 am
      You learned a new word ā€˜veracityā€™ 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Keep using it...& no need to send a twitter or reddit link,Iā€™ll just send them some of your post..

      :D you try to be funny but that doesn't even make sense, my posts are not disputing the club's financial accounts that they audit. But hey, you must still be trying to figure out our wage bill, be sure to let them know your thoughts.

      I don't suffer from the sheer arrogance of thinking I must know better than the facts, choose to ignore them, then call it scepticism.
      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 12:01:26 pm by Diego LFC »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28338: Jun 11, 2021 11:58:51 am
      You make sh*t up for sure.
      The lad said "FSG instigated the ESL debacle" as I did in a previous post, meaning of course that FSG was the party in the LFC hierarchy responsible for the proposal, not Klopp, not the tea lady but our owners.
      Purely for sh*t stirring purposes you twisted the comment, get a life.

      Do you understand what ā€œinstigateā€ means

      What exactly is being ā€œmade upā€


      The ESL was ā€œinstigatedā€ by Perez and Agnelli not FSG

      FSG joined the proposal along with the other clubs after Perez and Co started it off.


      No one has even suggested it had anything to do with Klopp ?!

      Stop trying to act clever to get yourself out of holes you dig yourself into

      That season ticket gone back yet ?
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28339: Jun 11, 2021 12:07:52 pm
      So Hazard going to Chelsea rather than choosing to be managed by Roy in a team that was then going absolutely nowhere somehow proves something! Or Toni Kroos preferring to play for the European champions! Depay never said he rejected Liverpool, and we were also out of the UCL at the time. Sanchez was supposed to have been attracted more by Wenger than money (of which we were supposed to be "throwing" a lot of at him, as said by someone inside Arsenal).

      Yeah in the end we did miss out on some players but also won plenty of others. Ultimately it matters not one iota if we are prepared to wait for the right players, as long as we are competitive on the pitch. Did we have to beat Man Utd to sign Diogo Jota? I don't think so, and does it matter? I know he will be a better player for us than Depay was to them. And thank f**k one of the players we missed out on happened to be Sigurdsson (though I was very keen on him then :D), but at a time when Spurs went for pretty much all of the same players we did ok to bring Suarez.
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28340: Jun 11, 2021 12:11:02 pm
      So Hazard going to Chelsea rather than choosing to be managed by Roy in a team that was then going absolutely nowhere somehow proves something! Or Toni Kroos preferring to play for the European champions! Depay never said he rejected Liverpool, and we were also out of the UCL at the time. Sanchez was supposed to have been attracted more by Wenger than money (of which we were supposed to be "throwing" a lot of at him, as said by someone inside Arsenal).

      Yeah in the end we did miss out on some players but also won plenty of others. Ultimately it matters not one iota if we are prepared to wait for the right players, as long as we are competitive on the pitch. Did we have to beat Man Utd to sign Diogo Jota? I don't think so, and does it matter? I know he will be a better player for us than Depay was to them. And thank F**k one of the ones we missed out on happened to be Sigurdsson (though I was very keen on him then :D), but at a time when Spurs went for pretty much all of the same players we did ok to bring Suarez.

      There is absolute nonsense spouted daily in this thread mate and I find I always end up getting dragged back in.

      I know I sound like I'm an all singing and dancing FSG fanboy at times but far from it as I've criticised plenty of what they've tried to do here at times but it's the sheer bullshitting that I cannot leave alone as it's as tiresome as it is untrue.

      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28341: Jun 11, 2021 12:11:55 pm
      I wouldn't find the challenge "tiresome and boring" if it had any substance! You said the club guarantees improved financial results each year, I've shown it to be a false statement - it's as simple as that. If you find that pedantic, then it says more about you than me, I am sorry stuey.

      Of course, you then come back with another cryptic message instead of engaging with the facts. And on top of that, still feel the need to be snide and imply that those that disagree with you must have "vested interests". Oh well

      LFC is as near the perfect investment there is and for anyone who has a professed knowledge of the markets to dispute this obviously has an agenda!

      The investment is just that and will provide a sustainable return in the long term, even foregoing the business maxim of feeding an asset, in this case the performance and status of the asset will be greatly limited by way of reduced financial backing.

      I made no direct implication with the 'vested interest' comment although there have been individual's banned in the past after being identified as agents of the owners.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28342: Jun 11, 2021 12:12:40 pm
      So Hazard going to Chelsea rather than choosing to be managed by Roy in a team that was then going absolutely nowhere somehow proves something! Or Toni Kroos preferring to play for the European champions! Depay never said he rejected Liverpool, and we were also out of the UCL at the time. Sanchez was supposed to have been attracted more by Wenger than money (of which we were supposed to be "throwing" a lot of at him, as said by someone inside Arsenal).

      Yeah in the end we did miss out on some players but also won plenty of others. Ultimately it matters not one iota if we are prepared to wait for the right players, as long as we are competitive on the pitch. Did we have to beat Man Utd to sign Diogo Jota? I don't think so, and does it matter? I know he will be a better player for us than Depay was to them. And thank f**k one of the players we missed out on happened to be Sigurdsson (though I was very keen on him then :D), but at a time when Spurs went for pretty much all of the same players we did ok to bring Suarez.

      This bunch of sh*te got two likes? Really?

      Did you even read my first point before you came along spouting this nonsense?

      My WHOLE POINT was regarding Mbappe. I said we will never sign him when others are involved. We have a history of losing out when more than one elite club is involved.

      Did I give any reason why? NO!

      You lot then come along and give me a thousand reasons WHY we missed out.

      I was not debating WHY we missed out but THAT WE MISS OUT WHEN MORE THAN ONE TEAM ARE OFFERING CONTRACTS!

      Is that clear enough for you lot?
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28343: Jun 11, 2021 12:14:55 pm
      This bunch of sh*te got two likes? Really?

      Did you even read my first point before you came along spouting this nonsense?

      My WHOLE POINT was regarding Mbappe. I said we will never sign him when others are involved. We have a history of losing out when more than one elite club is involved.

      Did I give any reason why? NO!

      You let then come along and give me a thousand reasons WHY we missed out.

      I was not debating WHY we missed out but THAT WE MISS OUT WHEN MORE THAN ONE TEAM ARE OFFERING CONTRACTS!

      Is that clear enough for you lot?

      I never get obsessed about 'missing out' as generally speaking we get the players we need and the success in the last few seasons proves this.

      I never believe we are in for Mbappe anyway so don't think we will miss out anyway.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28344: Jun 11, 2021 12:16:09 pm
      LFC is as near the perfect investment there is and for anyone who has a professed knowledge of the markets to dispute this obviously has an agenda!

      The investment is just that and will provide a sustainable return in the long term, even foregoing the business maxim of feeding an asset, in this case the performance and status of the asset will be greatly limited by way of reduced financial backing.

      I made no direct implication with the 'vested interest' comment although there have been individual's banned in the past after being identified as agents of the owners.


      Is this serious 😂😂😂

      Banned as agents of the owners 😂


      Sorry but what is an agent of the owner and why would they be banned 😂😂

      Wonder if it pays well - Christ there are some paranoid people around
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28345: Jun 11, 2021 12:18:33 pm

      Is this serious 😂😂😂

      Banned as agents of the owners 😂


      Sorry but what is an agent of the owner and why would they be banned 😂😂

      Wonder if it pays well - Christ there are some paranoid people around

      Do some research Mr Gimp!
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28346: Jun 11, 2021 12:18:40 pm

      I never believe we are in for Mbappe anyway so don't think we will miss out anyway.

      I also said this.

      I believe we're not even sniffing let alone in for him.

      I said his wages will be too high to which I was argued that "wages will not be a problem".

      I said will it no disrupt Salah and co? To which I was argued "doesn't matter".

      I said when more than one club are involved we miss out and there's a long list of players we missed out on. I got told "no there isn't, prove it!".

      I send my list and got argued "oh we missed out on this one for x reason and we missed out on that one for y reason".

      It's all the same! We missed out and that was my exact point.

      I think people want to argue for the sake of arguing
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28347: Jun 11, 2021 12:19:45 pm


      😂😂 why when you appear to have the answers 😂
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28348: Jun 11, 2021 12:21:07 pm
      I was not debating WHY we missed out but THAT WE MISS OUT WHEN MORE THAN ONE TEAM ARE OFFERING CONTRACTS!

      Is that clear enough for you lot?

      It is very clear, it is also untrue and occasionally irrelevant - missing out on top players at a time when you are a shambles managed by Roy Hodgson hardly reflects anything on the recently arrived owners, so your choice of listing someone like Hazard is odd, to say the least. The reality is closer to we miss some, we win others. For a lot of the examples that you posted and then said it "proved" your point, it is very far from clear that we even offered a contract.
      Mmmklopp
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28349: Jun 11, 2021 12:24:18 pm
      It is very clear, it is also untrue and occasionally irrelevant - missing out on top players at a time when you are a shambles managed by Roy Hodgson hardly reflects anything on the recently arrived owners, so your choice of listing someone like Hazard is odd, to say the least. The reality is closer to we miss some, we win others. For a lot of the examples that you posted and then said it "proved" your point, it is very far from clear that we even offered a contract.

      They owned the club when Roy made the statement I'm referring to.

      Ok, I give up.

      You think we win players when we go head to head with other elite clubs, I don't.

      I posted my arguments and you posted your replies. No worries 👍🏽
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28350: Jun 11, 2021 12:30:02 pm
      Could we all agree that we would expect the following from any owners?

      Build a strong competitive squad of players

      Hire the best coaching and management team we can get.

      Hire the best recruitment people in the game.

      Grow the commercial side of the business to increase revenue streams

      Develop the infrastructure of the club like stadium and training facilities.

      Compete and win trophies.

      Liaise with fans and community to harbor a good relationship.

      Maintaing reasonable ticket prices to allow access to supporters to see the team live.


      Maintain the values of the club in how they conduct themselves.


      Not an exhaustive list and feel free to add your own.

      Now just leave the current owners aside for a second and of say the above is a good start point of what we all would expect from any owner of the club.

      After that have a think if the current owners have a yes or a no to the above and for me there are far more yea than nay.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28351: Jun 11, 2021 12:33:14 pm
      Could we all agree that we would expect the following from any owners?

      Build a strong competitive squad of players

      Hire the best coaching and management team we can get.

      Hire the best recruitment people in the game.

      Grow the commercial side of the business to increase revenue streams

      Develop the infrastructure of the club like stadium and training facilities.

      Compete and win trophies.

      Liaise with fans and community to harbor a good relationship.

      Maintaing reasonable ticket prices to allow access to supporters to see the team live.


      Maintain the values of the club in how they conduct themselves.


      Not an exhaustive list and feel free to add your own.

      Now just leave the current owners aside for a second and of say the above is a good start point of what we all would expect from any owner of the club.

      After that have a think if the current owners have a yes or a no to the above and for me there are far more yea than nay.

      That sums it all up

      There are a couple areas where our current owners have failed at times but believe they learn from that
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28352: Jun 11, 2021 12:33:35 pm
      LFC is as near the perfect investment there is and for anyone who has a professed knowledge of the markets to dispute this obviously has an agenda!

      The investment is just that and will provide a sustainable return in the long term, even foregoing the business maxim of feeding an asset, in this case the performance and status of the asset will be greatly limited by way of reduced financial backing.

      I made no direct implication with the 'vested interest' comment although there have been individual's banned in the past after being identified as agents of the owners.

      I think LFC were a great investment at the time they came in because of the untapped potential of the club, that is for sure - there were not that many suitors to the post, however, with most of the dodgy rich owners preferring to go to clubs where they would be under a lot less scrutiny and even bigger untapped potential (that means avg teams in big cities with big stadiums). They came in at a time when the club was underperforming commercially and when TV contracts were on the up, which improved the value of all clubs in the Premier League. This was far from guaranteed though, as 20 years of incompetence before them should show. The fact the revenue growth that has since been accrued (with LFC's commercial revenue growth the largest in the league) has been matched by wage bill spending has allowed the team to achieve success on the pitch with a fantastic manager.

      That is not to say that growth is limitless, though, nor guaranteed - there are no guarantees of positive financial returns when you need to spend so much to maintain a competitive squad, nor even a guarantee of an improved valuation. You have to wonder whether TV contracts are going to continue to grow indefinitely, there are definitely signs this is not the case. And LFC are now near the top of the revenue table, with hardly that much room for growth - which is why they are keen to continue expanding the stadium, for instance.

      If anything, the ESL was precisely the result of owners' desire for more stable and guaranteed financial returns, something they don't have at the moment. If that was the case with the UCL setup, none of this ESL bullshit would've even come to life. Imagine if LFC missed out on Champions League this season, for example - on top of missing all of the matchday revenue for a whole season - you could be sure this would've had quite an impact on the club's results. The ESL would make sure they wouldn't have to worry about it. For comparison, all 20 teams in the NBA posted profits in 2020, while the Premier League had combined losses of about Ā£1billion in 2019/20.
      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 12:55:16 pm by Diego LFC »
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28353: Jun 11, 2021 12:35:38 pm
      They owned the club when Roy made the statement I'm referring to.

      Ok, I give up.

      You think we win players when we go head to head with other elite clubs, I don't.

      I posted my arguments and you posted your replies. No worries 👍🏽

      How often do we really go 'head to head' with other clubs to sign players though?

      I'd argue it happens very rarely as we have a very specific recruitment policy and more often than not are targeting players other big clubs are not.

      And even if we do miss out it hadn't seemed to have hurt us over the last period as we have players that are the envy of others and a squad as good as any around.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28354: Jun 11, 2021 12:38:56 pm
      They owned the club when Roy made the statement I'm referring to.

      Ok, I give up.

      You think we win players when we go head to head with other elite clubs, I don't.

      I posted my arguments and you posted your replies. No worries 👍🏽

      I know they owned the club mate, I just question the relevance of this example to your argument, which is, as far as I understand, that FSG misses out on players when we go head to head with "other" elite clubs.

      Fair enough. But the fact for me is that we were not an elite club then, so we would hardly be able to compete with one. We had finished 7th and were managed by a dinosaur, then supposedly missed out on Hazard for the then Premier League champions.

      So your statement re Hazard might true - I'm not sure, but I am not even disputing that - but I don't think it is relevant to the argument. Once on a par with elite clubs, then other examples might be more relevant.
      « Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 12:49:37 pm by Diego LFC »
      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28355: Jun 11, 2021 01:06:28 pm
      :D you try to be funny but that doesn't even make sense, my posts are not disputing the club's financial accounts that they audit. But hey, you must still be trying to figure out our wage bill, be sure to let them know your thoughts.

      I don't suffer from the sheer arrogance of thinking I must know better than the facts, choose to ignore them, then call it scepticism.

      Iā€™m still trying to figure out & I hoped you would have been so inclined to help me understand how this team gets paid over Ā£315 million in wages, this was the initial question before you tried to be clever with the snide twitter & reddit comment.

      So, once again, please explain the 2nd high spend on wages for this team.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28356: Jun 11, 2021 01:11:34 pm
      Iā€™m still trying to figure out & I hoped you would have been so inclined to help me understand how this team gets paid over Ā£315 million in wages, this was the initial question before you tried to be clever with the snide twitter & reddit comment.

      So, once again, please explain the 2nd high spend on wages for this team.


      Surely you have been told a few times now


      They have their base salary - then on top of that is performance related bonuses both individually and team related then there is also retention bonuses plus any new contract signing on fees


      Man Cityā€™s base salary per year is Ā£154 mil I believe ours is around Ā£138mil
      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28357: Jun 11, 2021 01:19:05 pm

      Surely you have been told a few times now


      They have their base salary - then on top of that is performance related bonuses both individually and team related then there is also retention bonuses plus any new contract signing on fees


      Man Cityā€™s base salary per year is Ā£154 mil I believe ours is around Ā£138mil

      So the club paid the team/squad over Ā£150 million in bonuses.?
      Diego LFC
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #28358: Jun 11, 2021 01:25:27 pm
      Iā€™m still trying to figure out & I hoped you would have been so inclined to help me understand how this team gets paid over Ā£315 million in wages, this was the initial question before you tried to be clever with the snide twitter & reddit comment.

      So, once again, please explain the 2nd high spend on wages for this team.

      Clubs do not have the obligation to disclose their staff costs in that level of detail, so I can't help you with that. Financial statements are independently audited however so there isn't much room for fraud - you can safely assume it is an accurate depiction of reality. This is from LFC's 2019/20 accounts:



      Manchester City's accounts for the same period:



      And this is Manchester United's...



      All clubs use incentivised contracts and we are said to use those incentives extensively - not just those based on the team winning titles or qualifying for UCL, but also individual performance bonuses - goals scored for attackers, for instance.

      2020/21 accounts are not going to be published for a while so we don't know how much exactly we've spent this past season. Two high earners have moved on (Lovren and Lallana) but two new ones have also come in (Thiago and Jota), so not sure what the final impact this will have. We will surely pay less than in the previous couple of seasons in terms of bonuses though. I would guess the gap to City might have grown slightly (as their players will get bonuses for winning the league, maybe also for reaching a UCL final) but we should still be near the top

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