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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29164: Sep 07, 2021 12:59:43 am
      She’s on point…👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼


      https://twitter.com/theanfieldtalk/status/1434933782537195520?s=21
      « Last Edit: Sep 07, 2021 01:09:35 am by Shabs »
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29165: Sep 07, 2021 05:10:39 am
      Give me actual proof of FSG parting with their own money for the benefit of LFC.
      Loans to the club of course are not included.

      Is that all it always boils down to with you? I and many others have pointed out the improvements in every area of the club under the current ownership, on and off the pitch,  that just seem to be ignored.

      Also most on here complain about the way other clubs have achieved success, be it breaking FFP, creative accounting in regards to sponsorship, the morals or otherwise of the owners of certain clubs etc etc.

      I'd much rather have the way this lot do it. As I've said numerous times they have made mistakes, have done things that they should have known wouldn't sit well with us but when you boil it down you only have to look at where we were when they took over to where we are now to see the difference.

      If you, or anyone can't, then you're either being pig ignorant or just plain thick.

      A small thing but this thread is a window into where we were to where we sit now.

      https://twitter.com/ScouseSocialism/status/1435009338679173125?s=19
      ruthcity
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29166: Sep 07, 2021 08:23:13 am
      The owners didn’t decide all that

      Edwards and Klopp did - why would you think the owners make decisions on players arriving or leaving ?

      Because first, the grumble is on the owners not taking out their own money to buy players. It’s reasonable that if someone like Roman pays for players, he could pick whoever he likes regardless of the transfer team.

      Flip this around. But this isn’t the owners’ own money, but funds available at the club. Objectively, whatever transfer fund is available at the club, the transfer team has the right to decide its use.

      People still think that if the owners can stop additional funding, they too are stopping the transfer team from operating. It’s a bit over the top. I’d say this without of thinking through, if I want to pin down FSG. It’s either a convenient statement or I’m ignorant, lazy and uninformed.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29167: Sep 07, 2021 10:03:58 am
      Is that all it always boils down to with you? I and many others have pointed out the improvements in every area of the club under the current ownership, on and off the pitch,  that just seem to be ignored.

      Also most on here complain about the way other clubs have achieved success, be it breaking FFP, creative accounting in regards to sponsorship, the morals or otherwise of the owners of certain clubs etc etc.

      I'd much rather have the way this lot do it. As I've said numerous times they have made mistakes, have done things that they should have known wouldn't sit well with us but when you boil it down you only have to look at where we were when they took over to where we are now to see the difference.

      If you, or anyone can't, then you're either being pig ignorant or just plain thick.

      A small thing but this thread is a window into where we were to where we sit now.

      https://twitter.com/ScouseSocialism/status/1435009338679173125?s=19

      Proof of them actually putting their own money into the club is what was requested from some bullshitter who reckons FSG financed the club, stiill no proof just waffle.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29168: Sep 07, 2021 10:10:40 am
      Proof of them actually putting their own money into the club is what was requested from some bullshitter who reckons FSG financed the club, stiill no proof just waffle.

      Any yearly profits/gains reinvested in the club is a sign of the owners putting money back into the club.

      So far they have not taken out any and reinvested all their club earnings back into Liverpool.

      It's not BS, you just don't understand how things work.
      ruthcity
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29169: Sep 07, 2021 10:17:54 am
      Any yearly profits/gains reinvested in the club is a sign of the owners putting money back into the club.

      So far they have not taken out any and reinvested all their club earnings back into Liverpool.

      It's not BS, you just don't understand how things work.

      Apparently reinvested earnings is not enough to keep up with the way other teams are reinforcing their squads… and only owners’ cash equity injection is the only way we can strengthen our squad? And the more cash equity injection the higher the correlation to our squad getting stronger, leading to a higher probability of updating the numbers on the champions wall?

      But hell we updated the champions wall without the above and we are still insecure. Very much insecure.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29170: Sep 07, 2021 10:26:26 am
      Apparently reinvested earnings is not enough to keep up with the way other teams are reinforcing their squads… and only owners’ cash equity injection is the only way we can strengthen our squad? And the more cash equity injection the higher the correlation to our squad getting stronger, leading to a higher probability of updating the numbers on the champions wall?

      But hell we updated the champions wall without the above and we are still insecure. Very much insecure.

      Cash/equity injection comes at a huge price though.

      People think that equity injection is easy, but it's not. It means higher costs to the club.

      Man City does it through inflated sponsorship deals that FFP doesn't even look at. Chelsea and Man Utd do it through huge amount of debt. What happens when for example Abramovich decides to pull the plug on Chelsea? The club would owe him big time.

      I prefer the sustainable way. Increase your earnings by increasing your revenues and build long term. This way when FSG decides to move on and sell we would still be in a very good financial position.

      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29171: Sep 07, 2021 10:27:32 am
      Proof of them actually putting their own money into the club is what was requested from some bullshitter who reckons FSG financed the club, stiill no proof just waffle.

      I'm pretty sure no one on here ever said they 'financed the club' whatever that actually means.

      They haven't put their 'own money' in either but were crystal clear about that from day one so not sure why you're still on that little hobby horse?

      By any available measure if you look at this football club on the day they bought it and then look now the club has grown.

      Trophies. Yes
      Stadium. Yes
      Playing squad. Yes
      Training facilities. Yes
      Commercial Revenue. Yes

      I'll ask again, although doubt I'll get a grown up sensible answer, if all the above has happened, and it very much has, does it matter that it happened organically and without the ownership plowing their money in or leveraging debt in the club?
      « Last Edit: Sep 07, 2021 10:54:43 am by srslfc »
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29172: Sep 07, 2021 10:46:47 am
      I'm pretty sure no one in here ever said they 'financed the club' whatever that actually means.

      They haven't put their 'own money' in either but we're crystal clear about that from day one so not sure why you're still on that little hobby horse?

      By any available measure if you look at this football club in the day they bought it and then look now the club's has grown.

      Trophies. Yes
      Stadium. Yes
      Playing squad. Yes
      Training facilities. Yes
      Commercial Revenue. Yes

      I'll ask again, although doubt I'll get a grown up sensible answer, if all the above has happened, and it very much has, does it matter that it happened organically and without the ownership plowing their money in or leveraging debt in the club?

      They invest zero, they are speculators/market players and cream profits eventually.
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29173: Sep 07, 2021 10:49:03 am
      They invest zero, they are speculators/market players and cream profits eventually.


      Would be easier talking to my dog.

      I've said it before but I think I'm done.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29174: Sep 07, 2021 10:55:30 am
      Would be easier talking to my dog.

      I've said it before but I think I'm done.

      You've said that before as well!
      You can't win this one Si because the basis of your defence is shot.

      Our owners are speculators here for the short term to milk the asset.
      « Last Edit: Sep 07, 2021 11:25:37 am by stuey »
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29175: Sep 07, 2021 12:40:06 pm
      You've said that before as well!
      You can't win this one Si because the basis of your defence is shot.

      Our owners are speculators here for the short term to milk the asset.

      It’s not a competition is it?

      The owners aren’t that short term, they’ve been here 10/11 years now. They’ve had plenty opportunity now to sell the club for a gigantic profit and haven’t done so. Whether we like it or not, they are here to stay and won’t be going anywhere anytime soon.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29176: Sep 07, 2021 01:34:53 pm
      It’s not a competition is it?

      The owners aren’t that short term, they’ve been here 10/11 years now. They’ve had plenty opportunity now to sell the club for a gigantic profit and haven’t done so. Whether we like it or not, they are here to stay and won’t be going anywhere anytime soon.

      You sure about that..?  They won’t be here for another decade, probably sell
      Us off within that time frame if not sooner….
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29177: Sep 07, 2021 02:15:16 pm
      You sure about that..?  They won’t be here for another decade, probably sell
      Us off within that time frame if not sooner….

      You're asking me if I'm sure? My view that they won't be going anywhere soon is based on the fact they've been here 10/11 years and have rejected offers for the club of over ÂŁ1bn, which is a gigantic profit for them.

      What's your view based on? Because if you think they are, 1. selling for anything less than that and 2. anyone would pay ÂŁ2-3bn for the club then you could be in for a shock.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29178: Sep 07, 2021 03:36:08 pm
      It’s not a competition is it?

      The owners aren’t that short term, they’ve been here 10/11 years now. They’ve had plenty opportunity now to sell the club for a gigantic profit and haven’t done so. Whether we like it or not, they are here to stay and won’t be going anywhere anytime soon.

      11 years of realistically none-investment does not constitute a “long term” investment- the time scale might imply but factually the word “invest” is badly misplaced.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29179: Sep 07, 2021 04:05:07 pm
      11 years of realistically none-investment does not constitute a “long term” investment- the time scale might imply but factually the word “invest” is badly misplaced.

      Didn't mention long term investment did I? I said about the duration of their ownership.

      To them the club is a business, if they are able to run their business without putting any of their own money in, then to them they are making a success of it. Same as any business, I know myself that if I don't have to put any of my own money in then I'm doing something right.

      They have never understood the values of the club, they will never understand the values of the club but for them, their business is running well and increasing in value.

      Ultimately, they don't give a toss about the fans and the team winning trophies, to them that is probably just an additional bonus so long as the other objectives are being met.

      Are we in the red financially? No
      Is the club in with as much chance of winning silverware as anyone else? Yes
      Are there improvements to the stadium and training ground etc? Yes

      I don't think they are many people's preferred choice of ownership given the complete lack of understanding and bond they have with the club but it is what it is. After the shambles of H&G, just be a bit appreciative that regardless of whether its from their own pocket or not, the club is moving forward, developing and secure financially.  I don't get why you still have such an issue with this, it's not going to change anytime soon so why do you focus so much of your energy on it? You've been getting so stressed about this for years and it never changes. You have a strong dislike for the owners, we get it, you've made yourself perfectly clear mate.
      « Last Edit: Sep 07, 2021 04:12:48 pm by 7-King Kenny-7 »
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29180: Sep 07, 2021 04:38:19 pm
      Didn't mention long term investment did I? I said about the duration of their ownership.

      To them the club is a business, if they are able to run their business without putting any of their own money in, then to them they are making a success of it. Same as any business, I know myself that if I don't have to put any of my own money in then I'm doing something right.

      They have never understood the values of the club, they will never understand the values of the club but for them, their business is running well and increasing in value.

      Ultimately, they don't give a toss about the fans and the team winning trophies, to them that is probably just an additional bonus so long as the other objectives are being met.

      Are we in the red financially? No
      Is the club in with as much chance of winning silverware as anyone else? Yes
      Are there improvements to the stadium and training ground etc? Yes

      I don't think they are many people's preferred choice of ownership given the complete lack of understanding and bond they have with the club but it is what it is. After the shambles of H&G, just be a bit appreciative that regardless of whether its from their own pocket or not, the club is moving forward, developing and secure financially.  I don't get why you still have such an issue with this, it's not going to change anytime soon so why do you focus so much of your energy on it? You've been getting so stressed about this for years and it never changes. You have a strong dislike for the owners, we get it, you've made yourself perfectly clear mate.

      I do not “dislike” the owners.
      Once again I was as made up as any supporter of this club when the other fraudulent bas**rds were fu**ed off

      After some time elapsed and managers came and went the FSG modus operandi was scrutinised.

      As you point out they are businessmen/entrepreneurs but prior to Klopp this fact was not so well accepted.
      There was talk of demonstrations by some who were not happy with the manner in which FSG conducted their business.

      JĂźrgen Klopp turned it all around, won us stuff and the brand became a leader, fairy muff.
      Klopp achieved not FSG.
      But consider this when Klopp gets off we are back to square one.
      More sobering is the situation when the entrepreneurs  sell up and take what they consider they're entitled to and the pay out for the shareholders - that's business.
      « Last Edit: Sep 07, 2021 04:53:24 pm by stuey »
      ruthcity
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29181: Sep 07, 2021 05:21:53 pm
      They invest zero, they are speculators/market players and cream profits eventually.

      These are called corporate raiders on Wall Street. H&G are closer to your description. To help you in understanding how this is done, the raiders put in very little equity and load up the target with debt used to acquire the entity. Yes you invest close to zero. Following which they rip the assets apart to sell and drain out any cash available. What’s left is the entity servicing a pile of debt which wasn’t theirs to begin with.

      What’s the point of even telling you all these. You don’t even understand and keep insisting they’re not spending their own money despite updates to the champions wall. And you make up stuff that we are listed on the stock market.
      ruthcity
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29182: Sep 07, 2021 05:26:30 pm
      Cash/equity injection comes at a huge price though.

      People think that equity injection is easy, but it's not. It means higher costs to the club.

      Don’t go down that cost of equity and weighted average… never mind. Very few would understand CF. And I don’t mean centre forward.
      stuey
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29183: Sep 07, 2021 05:30:26 pm
      These are called corporate raiders on Wall Street. H&G are closer to your description. To help you in understanding how this is done, the raiders put in very little equity and load up the target with debt used to acquire the entity. Yes you invest close to zero. Following which they rip the assets apart to sell and drain out any cash available. What’s left is the entity servicing a pile of debt which wasn’t theirs to begin with.

      What’s the point of even telling you all these. You don’t even understand and keep insisting they’re not spending their own money despite updates to the champions wall. And you make up stuff that we are listed on the stock market.

      Your first statement makes a nonsense of your comment, H&G were fraudulent and found to be so in a court of law.
      FSG can and will do what is described.
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29184: Sep 07, 2021 05:33:14 pm
      At this point, I couldn't care less who the owners are as long as the football club is being run correctly and funds are made available when they are needed/requested by the manager. I don't think owners should be doing things like the Super League, furloughs, trademarking city names, etc... I'm pretty sure every single one of us can be on the page there (and if not then you really are just an FSG fan-girl). So for that, I don't have anything nice to say about this particular group of yanks.  As far as how transfers are funded, it's not like it's a secret that we are a sell to buy club and that's primarily how we work. It is what it is. I don't think that's going to change. Klopp seems to go along with that and doesn't appear (publicly) to disagree with that notion. He talks about how the owners back him when he asks although there's really not much way for us to really know if that is always 100% true. Personally, I'd like to see us speculate to accumulate from time to time but that's not our model so I doubt it's going to happen. I'm glad that the players that need renewing are getting new contracts, it's important to keep your core team intact as long as they are viable, I don't like the way they seem to wait to announce those renewals when they know fans are frustrated with other things, certainly feels like the club is taking the piss out of us sometimes in that respect.

      Overall, there's plenty of things to placate most folks, but personally I just don't like FSG, and I defended them early on in the Kenny/Brendan era so it's not like I'm some FSG-out knuckle-head. I just don't like how they operate and I don't like how they seem to be inflexible from this moneyball approach that will likely only work with someone like Klopp at the helm. But, I suppose we could do a lot worse...although that doesn't mean that we can't dream about doing a lot better. I will say this, anyone that spends the better part of their days defending FSG from all of us critical of them needs to re-evaluate what they really love about this club because it's just weird to constantly find ways to absolve them of some of the stupid sh*t they've done.
      ruthcity
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29185: Sep 07, 2021 05:33:35 pm
      Our owners are speculators here for the short term to milk the asset.

      But they put us in a very good place, although that fell way short of your expectations.
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #29186: Sep 07, 2021 05:34:00 pm
      "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in"

      More sobering is the situation when the entrepreneurs  sell up and take what they consider they're entitled to and the pay out for the shareholders - that's business.

      I've seen you mention this a number of times and just wanted to know what you actually mean by this? And if you could explain without rambling that would be great mate.

      Say the club is valued at ÂŁ3B at the time of any sale, you do realise that the buyer is giving FSG that money to take on the assets of LFC and not ÂŁ3B will suddenly be taken from the club into FSG'S pockets?

      Anyone who would spend that money would be doing so to continue to grow the club and therefore I don't see what the issue is?

      No owner debt to be paid back and the shareholders will get their share of the sale money.

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