How much time should Rafa have been given?

Haha gotta love messin with some people on here

Translation: "I've made meself look like a tw*t, so I'll pretend it was all a joke"

I stand by what i said.  Told you that.

We all dont think he was a genius, but we all love LFC.

Wheres the love guys?  Wheres the love?

Its supposed to be a forum not a winding up platform for halfwits.

I think this thread is nothing more than a slanging match, which as soon as on topic, veer’s off the road.
The OP’s only question has not yet been answered correctly.  And probably never will. 
This whole topic is a bag of worms; people are (understandably) still passionate about him going, while people are still glad, and happy to not be talking about – REGARDLESS of the clubs current situation.

My issue with Rafa is simple, whenever his name is mentioned alongside the great managers of our club.  It is backed up with so called facts.

His win %

His net spend

His persona

The way he handled the media

I love LFC with all my heart, but the only ‘facts’ I want to see are honours by his name.  That’s all. 

I don’t care how much the media bent the truth about his signings, I don’t care why or if he lost the dressing room.  I don’t care why he rotated.

I just want our club to win silver wear.  Shouldn’t we all?

Rafa had 6 years to do so and won 2 major trophies, ok he did it in style but out of 25 chances to win something, he won 2 of them. 

Call me fickle or whatever but that’s the only stat I care about.

Rafa is gone now, the old board fu**ed him over big time.

We now have a new board, new manager, and a bright future.

Let's look forward please folks. !

Rafa is gone now, the old board fu**ed him over big time.

We now have a new board, new manager, and a bright future.

Let's look forward please folks. !

A bright future with an arl pensioner, thats a laugh.

If we were forward looking we wouldn't have hired someone who will be eligible for a bus pass in a year or two.

Bob Paisley? Joe Fagan? they seem to come to mind..

We were all conquering at the time and didn't have owners that thought they knew better.

paisley didn't even want the job and Fagan was a stop gap, a treble-winning stop-gap until a new younger manager was brought in - Kenny!

Can you see us winning anything with owl-face, the result on Sunday was more to do with the all the players finally turning in a performance rather than because of Woy's tactics.

Can you see us winning anything with owl-face

Brilliant

To assume could make an ass out of u and me

But thats what you have done mate, make a load of assumptions and accusations, I gave you and others a detailed factual break down of Rafa's spend every year he was here, it clearly showed lack of investment was a casue of our demise, so no assumptions on my part, as history has proven give Rafa money you'll progress, take money off him whilst everyone else around him are investing and you'll regress, so the only person you are making an ass of is yourself, although thats not an anagram of assume so doesn't fit your general comment.   

I love LFC with all my heart, but the only ‘facts’ I want to see are honours by his name.  That’s all. 

I don’t care how much the media bent the truth about his signings, I don’t care why or if he lost the dressing room.  I don’t care why he rotated.

I just want our club to win silver wear.  Shouldn’t we all?

Rafa had 6 years to do so and won 2 major trophies, ok he did it in style but out of 25 chances to win something, he won 2 of them. 

Call me fickle or whatever but that’s the only stat I care about.

Thats a pretty myopic view to take though don't you think whilst he was achieving our 3rd ever highest win% as manager and winning some silverware and making us the number 1 ranked team in europe, leading us to our 3rd ever highest points tally etc etc you only care about honours ?

So you expected Rafa to win the league on the limited funds he was given, whilst Chelsea were throwing hundreds of millions around ? 

You should have appreciated what we had  and beared with him, its obvious as I've stated give Rafa steady conservative transfer fee's and you'll progress, can you imagine what he'd have achieved with £40m net spend per summer ?

Thats a pretty myopic view to take though don't you think whilst he was achieving our 3rd ever highest win% as manager and winning some silverware and making us the number 1 ranked team in europe, leading us to our 3rd ever highest points tally etc etc you only care about honours ?

So you expected Rafa to win the league on the limited funds he was given, whilst Chelsea were throwing hundreds of millions around ? 

You should have appreciated what we had  and beared with him, its obvious as I've stated give Rafa steady conservative transfer fee's and you'll progress, can you imagine what he'd have achieved with £40m net spend per summer ?

You get people like that though, people that think just the name Liverpool FC means we should be winning, when it takes far more than that. 

was Rafa a people person - NO. Was he a football man - YES. 

In recent interviews I've seen, Alonso has said he never had a problem with Rafa as well, and he was supposedly a big detractor.

The biggest detractor of Rafa, player wise, was Pennant and let us be honest, Jermanine was no great shakes, was he?

Winning has gotten a lot harder than it used to be, I want us to be challenging, but can see several factors that have gone against us.  Rafa made us feared in Europe again, a team that no one really wanted to face.  The lack of respect afforded to him, by some Liverpool fans (let alone general football fans) is staggering. 

He didn't win us the one he wanted, but I don't think anyone can truthfully say that Roy is the one to lead us to number 19 - not on what we've seen so far.

To be honest Roddenberry I don't care if Rafa was a people person, he's the manager an Authoritive figure at the club, he should be able to distance himself from players somewhat to keep that air of Authority.

End of the day getting close to players makes disciplining them I.E in the Albert Riera case a harder task to do and being on friendly terms in that scenario can only open up more proverbial cans of worms.

People slate Rafa for the handling of Alonso during Baby Birth Gate, but the thing is Rafa put the club before his family as shown by missing the chance to be there for his own mother when his father died, he elected to stay with the squad and in his head he expected players who are very handsomley rewarded to do so, to do the same.

To be honest Roddenberry I don't care if Rafa was a people person, he's the manager an Authoritive figure at the club, he should be able to distance himself from players somewhat to keep that air of Authority.

End of the day getting close to players makes disciplining them I.E in the Albert Riera case a harder task to do and being on friendly terms in that scenario can only open up more proverbial cans of worms.

People slate Rafa for the handling of Alonso during Baby Birth Gate, but the thing is Rafa put the club before his family as shown by missing the chance to be there for his own mother when his father died, he elected to stay with the squad and in his head he expected players who are very handsomley rewarded to do so, to do the same.

I'm not saying I cared if he was a people person, in fact I'm with you.  I have no problem with people in authority being distant, cold & caluculated - quite often it's a bonus, but you then need a buffer, an intermediary that is the 'hand around the shoulder' and as much as I have respect Sammy Lee, I don't think he's a great buffer.

I really do wonder why the slagging of Rafa has continued, most topics when his name seems to be brought up, for want of a better word, Rafa bashers.  Why do they want to constantly demean, degrade & denigrate what he did for this club.  It makes no sense when you look at his record,  especially in comparison with our other managers through the years.  

When the chips were down, Rafa always came back fighting! I strongly believe he would have turned it around this season to prove his doubters wrong.
In each one of his seasons here, there were times when people questioned him and he would always have an answer- he made mistakes as I have said before- but the things he did right out weigh them and I hope one day he is back here to prove the doubters wrong once again

YNWA                IRWT

For now, please give Woy a chance       

 

I really do wonder why the slagging of Rafa has continued, most topics when his name seems to be brought up, for want of a better word, Rafa bashers.  Why do they want to constantly demean, degrade & denigrate what he did for this club.  It makes no sense when you look at his record,  especially in comparison with our other managers through the years.  

Only Sky Sports has the answer

Put to the same people that Rafa had a minus £4.5m net spend during his last two seasons, how was he supposed to progress the squad ?, they will go off on a tirade of how he lost the dressing room, how he was at fault for Alonso's exit, how he got more involved in politics than football, how he lost his marbles with the "Fact Rant", when the most important fact is in the original question.

Because the answer is quite simple you can not progress on that kind of spending in this league even more so when all your rivals above and around you are still investing in their squads and adding quality, its only normal you will regress when you are replacing quality with a cheaper inferior player, but they won't admit that because Sky Sports tell them differently, after all Rafa left Roy a very poor squad that included Mascherano, Benayoun, Gerrard, Aquilani, Torres, Agger, Reina, Carragher.

Only Sky Sports has the answer -  how he lost his marbles with the "Fact Rant",

If Sky Sports has the answer, I fookin give up.....

And I still have a problem calling that a rant - a rant is a violent outburst, rather was cool, calm & collected, with his tongue firmly in cheek.  I still think the press are pissed off with that, becuase he used 'reported' facts to back up his argument.  To call what he did a rant, in my eyesis naive, as was Rafa possibly for doing it, but it wasn't a rant.

If Sky Sports has the answer, I fookin give up.....

And I still have a problem calling that a rant - a rant is a violent outburst, rather was cool, calm & collected, with his tongue firmly in cheek.  I still think the press are pissed off with that, becuase he used 'reported' facts to back up his argument.  To call what he did a rant, in my eyesis naive, as was Rafa possibly for doing it, but it wasn't a rant.

I have a problem with it too, to be honest mate, but I've got to speak in a language the knockers/detractors understand, as if I said a cold calculated dignified factual response to Ferguson, the knockers/detractors would not have a clue what I was talking about as Sky Sports and the English press quite clearly labelled it a Rant so to the knockers/detractors it must have been just that.

Unfortunately he isn’t a bitter.  He is one of the brightest football people I know.  He’s a true stato who gives credit where it’s due whatever the game, result or team.  He’s great for an argument as he knows a lot about every team in the premier league.

I think he does have ONE point, Rafa did pay less attention to the youth and that did annoy me during his time here.

i'm not questioning your mates intelligence or iq, i'm merely responding to his criticism of rafa. i always take people's indivdual points and see if it makes sense or not. to me, your mates points don't have a good basis, that's all. some people claim we blindly defend rafa, but we actually base our argument on his actual achievement not to mention the respoect he showed to the fans and the history of the club.

anyway, rafa did refer to everton as a small team...brilliant

Thats a pretty myopic view to take though don't you think whilst he was achieving our 3rd ever highest win% as manager and winning some silverware and making us the number 1 ranked team in europe, leading us to our 3rd ever highest points tally etc etc you only care about honours ?

So you expected Rafa to win the league on the limited funds he was given, whilst Chelsea were throwing hundreds of millions around ? 

You should have appreciated what we had  and beared with him, its obvious as I've stated give Rafa steady conservative transfer fee's and you'll progress, can you imagine what he'd have achieved with £40m net spend per summer ?

my sentiments entirely. amazing how our own fans did not appreciate what they had. those, such as nnilswerdna, maybe actually believe what they read in the papaers. if daily fail says rafa had a net spend of 200m and he should have won the league etc etc...they believe it.

very sad but i guess we'll never change some people's mind.

people shouting for Kenny to come back also so does he count as in the same age bracket? I don't think age matters only size (quote from the mrs).

So basically you're happy with the all the sh*te Woy says, the utter sh*t football in the first three months of the season after years of managing sh*te teams. Getting a point away to Birmingham might of been like 3 points to a team in a relegation scrap but its utter sh*t for Liverpool.

Team ,Manager and fans.Simple philosophy and it lasted until 2007. The board under H+G changed the way we did business by going behind Rafa's back on more than one occasion.All previous managers came to an end in a reasonably amicable manner and we were able to say goodbye and good luck in whatever you do in the future. This wasnt the case the Holy Tinity was broken by the board and I think thats why we feel so uneasy about Rafa leaving and Roy coming in. The board caused this rift and they may well be changing but we are a loyal bunch and dont like to see one of our own fu**ed over by some c**t who had only been here 5 mins and will walk away with a nice big  bonus.
If the new owners had come in and Rafa had decided he couldnt work with them or vice versa then fine we could have dealt with that.But that isnt what happend Rafa was fuckedover and they brought in someone who would not cause trouble whilst the sale was being processed.Its left a nasty smell and it may take sometime before it goes.

Rafa's time was up IMO but whether Roy is the answer only time will tell although the early signs have been alarming. We lost to a lot of sh*te whilst Rafa was in charge aswell.

Rafa's time was up IMO but whether Roy is the answer only time will tell although the early signs have been alarming. We lost to a lot of sh*te whilst Rafa was in charge aswell.

Why was his time up though ?

Was it because our dip in fortunes/league position coincided with a minus £4.5m net spend over two seasons ?

Clear this up for me mate, why was his time up in your opinion ?.