Liverpool's old man team

The general rule is that Agents and players have the sway you just cant get rid of a player that is a problem for us.When they come here on big contracts and it dosen't work out they will not leave and go to a smaller club on lessmoney when they can sit on their arses for 3 years earning much more.
Its a crazy situation but very true Agents ruin the game.

It's very clear that Liverpool in 3-4 years the reds will have a markedly different line up.

Liverpool have an old side now.

I have listed the 12 senior players (who do play games) all 28 or over.  5 of these 12 we actually bought this summer.  All of these players can now be considered to have a relatively poor resale value.  I'm not saying they are worth nothing - but they are almost certainly amongst the club's highest earners and account for over 50% of Liverpool's payroll.

Brad Jones (28)
Pepe Reina (28)
Paul Konchesky (29)
Fabio Aurelio (31)
Jamie Carragher (32)
Sotirios Kyrgiakos (31)
Maxi Rodriguez (29)
Joe Cole (29)
Milan Jovanovich (29)
Christian Poulsen (30)
Steven Gerrard (30)
Dirk Kuyt (30)

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Here are the 14 players (27 and under) either in the first team, squad or fringes with the best chance (currently) of being involved in the future squads of Liverpool. 

Glen Johnson (26)
Raul Meireles (27)
Martin Skrtel (25)
Daniel Agger (26)
Martin Kelly (20)
Daniel Ayala (20)
Lucas Leiva (23)
Ryan Babel (23)
Fernando Torres (26)
Jonjo Shelvey (18)
Danny Wilson (18)
David Ngog (21)
Daniel Pacheco (19)
Nathan Eccleston (19)

In my view, any of the first group who want to leave, Reina and Gerrard apart, should be allowed to.  Although unlikely to get a large transfer fee, the removal of their wages can be better spent on the 22-26 age group of players coming in to the club.

While I am consistently disappointed in Babel, age does appear to be on his side.

Regretably, Rafa paid the same fee for Babel that manure paid for Nani.

As a question that many do not want to discuss, with this current team at what time do you attempt to cut-bait and get something before some of them are worth nothing. Who do you build around for 5 years out?

The think that strikes me almost every match is we seem slow against everyone...it's not an effort thing it's 21-23 year old opposition wearing out our 30 somethings. For as bad as we have played and I would have much rather seen Wilson and Kelly and some of the younger guys playing...what they lack in experience they make up for in stamina.

Konchesky and Poulson I would get rid of straight away.  We're never going to get back what we paid for them whenever we let them go so may as well save on the wages.  No idea what wages they're on but say £50k a week between them over another 3.5 years of contract that's over £9m, money that could be better spent on something else.

Sotis we need to keep at least another season as a good back up.

Maxi I would keep too.

Joe Cole and Kuyt are probably the others I would let go in the summer.  Both have some sell on value and both are on big wages.  

Most people are glad that Roy has been using the kids in the Europa games but they aren't going to learn much as they are playing alongside similar standard players.  What they need is to be playing in the EPL alongside better players, not all at once but gradually over a few months.

We have some very exciting youth players coming through, 15, 16 & 17 year olds.  Most have just moved up from the Academy to the Reserves but some of them should be training with the 1st team squad.  This has been a problem for several years - the kids have no strategy as to how and when they will integrate with the 1st team or how to eventually get into the team permanently.

Konchesky and Poulson I would get rid of straight away.  We're never going to get back what we paid for them whenever we let them go so may as well save on the wages.  No idea what wages they're on but say £50k a week between them over another 3.5 years of contract that's over £9m, money that could be better spent on something else.

Sotis we need to keep at least another season as a good back up.

Maxi I would keep too.

Joe Cole and Kuyt are probably the others I would let go in the summer.  Both have some sell on value and both are on big wages. 

Most people are glad that Roy has been using the kids in the Europa games but they aren't going to learn much as they are playing alongside similar standard players.  What they need is to be playing in the EPL alongside better players, not all at once but gradually over a few months.

We have some very exciting youth players coming through, 15, 16 & 17 year olds.  Most have just moved up from the Academy to the Reserves but some of them should be training with the 1st team squad.  This has been a problem for several years - the kids have no strategy as to how and when they will integrate with the 1st team or how to eventually get into the team permanently.

Red I am fairly unversed Yank in regards to agents and xfers...can we just drop a player from the squad or are the contracts guaranteed like in baseball here in the states? For example the Red Sox just got done paying off some contracts of players that have not been on the team for a couple of years.

To be honest I don't think age is a biggest problem as long as that player still have his quality as we can see in Giggs, Scholes, Maldini etc. Most important for the old player is he must love and loyal to the club as love and loyal are the greatest things can motivate him to help the club such as develop the young player and play as good back up for the team without moaning around for first team etc.

I think everyone will agree that Scholes and Giggs are both freaks of nature. Scholes I can understand as he is a craftier, slower player, but Giggs is just unbelievable. He still has some pace at his age. I can see Gerrard staying top class for a few years, but he'd have to redevelop his game. He's an all-action all the time player, and he'd have to develop a little more calm and cool to his game as his pace and power decline.

I would hope that Gerrard could take a lesser role if it is clear better options are available in the future. He could be a great impact sub and an inspiration to younger players, as long as his wages aren't through the roof.

And yet these players over the age of 27, still play like schoolboys. Mind you, most in the second list don't convince me greatly either.

Red I am fairly unversed Yank in regards to agents and xfers...can we just drop a player from the squad or are the contracts guaranteed like in baseball here in the states? For example the Red Sox just got done paying off some contracts of players that have not been on the team for a couple of years.

There are means and ways of getting round these things but technically no, players can't be laid off if that's what you mean.

If there has been arguments between players/managers then sometimes said player gets transfer listed and usually dropped from the team.  He still gets his wages but not necessarily appearance money and all the add ons.

Sometimes, like in Tevez' case, he has asked to be transfer listed because he wants to leave.  Others will run down their contract just so they can move to another Club on a free transfer and demand a higher wage.

Agents are a breed on their own.  They generally work for their own benefit not the players.  As with all good negotiators they plant the seeds of doubt to the players then start prostituting them around the Clubs.  They are more corrupt than FIFA and earn far more money than is healthy for the game.

Contracts can also be of benefit to the Club if managed properly.  Look at Shreks deal earlier in the season.  One minute he wanted to go, next he's agreed a five year extension.  I'm guessing that like the Ronaldo deal he will be allowed to leave quite possibly next Summer.

Sell on clauses are also good.  Liverpool rarely use them when selling players on probably because usually the players leaving Liverpool have had their better days.  

There's a lot more to it than this and I'm sure people will add their info for you too.

Top or bottom?
There's only ONE way to sort it out.

The worrying thing for me is the quality of many of those older players. I think its o.k. to have quite a few players reaching the twilight of their careers if they are top quality players , their experience can be a valuable asset. When they are journeymen they tend to be more concerned with their next contract than winning trophies. Too many players happy to sit on a bench, with no hunger or willingness to fight for the win, and without the ability to make their experience tell.

 

So what are you trying to say saint it is good to have an old squad?

I think he is saying the older players dont have the quality and are just happy to have got long term contracts. . . Well who signed the ones that fit that category. Roy. Hopefully Comolli gets us some quality youth

So what are you trying to say saint it is good to have an old squad?

Nah mate, just that there is nothing wrong with a bit of experience as long as its allied to top class talent. Experience without the necessary ability means you just have an old squad.   
e.g. Reina will probably get better with age, Gerrard is good enough to use his experience to save his legs as he ages, while the rest have not only peaked but are probably already on the slide or soon will be as they probably wont "age gracefully"

Maybe Cole if the injuries haven't taken too much away?

   

7 of those older 12 players were signed by or got contract extensions from Roy. Scandalous

I think so veteran leadership on the pitch is a good thing..Problems to arise however when 1/2 of the starting 11 average age is 30...50/50 ratio of old men and youth should be more like 30/70 imho

Chelsea's title winning side had 30 players play some part in a Premiership game last year, their combined age was 26.5. It included, 14 players over the age of 27 and a further 3 (Alex, Cech, Essien) on 27 years of age.

So experience, when experienced quality, can be extremely useful i.e. Sami Hyypia in his final few years. Difference is, most of our current experienced players aren't really of any great quality nor are those under the age of 27.

Chelsea's title winning side had 30 players play some part in a Premiership game last year, their combined age was 26.5. It included, 14 players over the age of 27 and a further 3 (Alex, Cech, Essien) on 27 years of age.

So experience, when experienced quality, can be extremely useful I.e. Sami Hyypia in his final few years. Difference is, most of our current experienced players aren't really of any great quality nor are those under the age of 27.

Spot on. Thats what I was struggling to say. 

There is a big difference between some of  Chelsea's older players and our own. What we need, young and old, is quality in the first team. What we have in a large chunk is players happy they have well paid long term contracts

There is a big difference between some of  Chelsea's older players and our own. What we need, young and old, is quality in the first team. What we have in a large chunk is players happy they have well paid long term contracts

Which is what I said mate. And have said it for a long time, too many of our players aren't good enough regardless of their age.

There is a big difference between some of  Chelsea's older players and our own. What we need, young and old, is quality in the first team. What we have in a large chunk is players happy they have well paid long term contracts

That's right racerx mate.

 We have to get back to the situation of replacing a couple of players each season,it is not good for the club to have so many in the older  age bracket.This was our problem in the 1950s, our team had aged after winning the league in 1947 and reaching the Cup Final in 1950 and we had not replaced them which was to our detriment.I do not want to keep on about Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley but we all know how they bought players and threw them in the reserves to learn the Liverpool way.The reserves played the same football as the first team so when they were required to step up they were familiar with the system.On the other there was the situation when we bought Gary Mac who was getting on and no one could say he was a failure .

It's one of the great shames in my view that the reserves have effectively turned in to a youth system.

The introduction of B teams in the lower leagues would create far better competition in my view.

I often wondered how people would react to a club like Tranmere being linked and renamed Liverpol B. We could then send them the top reserve players and promote the subsequently successful ones to the first team

It's one of the great shames in my view that the reserves have effectively turned in to a youth system.

The introduction of B teams in the lower leagues would create far better competition in my view.

I would be in favour of returning to the system that used to prevail for the reserves,if the first team for example was playing Wolves at home the reserves played Wolves reserves away.If a club had a team in the 1st division then they had a club in the central league.Also the reserves played their home fixtures at Anfield.The F.A. appear to be running the central league like the old 3rd division north and south in order to cut down on expenses.This to mind is false economy in view of the exorbitant transfer fees and wages paid these days.If one goes back to the 1970s we had the strongest reserve team in the country.