Andy Carroll (Liverpool > West Ham Utd)

He played well today, and West Ham have made it public that they want to sign.  How much will they offer, who knows?

But there are a few clubs said to be interested and i'm hopeful that we can get 15  million for him.

He played well today, and West Ham have made it public that they want to sign.  How much will they offer, who knows?

But there are a few clubs said to be interested and i'm hopeful that we can get 15  million for him.

Just hope it gets sorted early, got a feeling WH will hold out for a bargain which won't help Brendan's transfer plans.

It's simple really: whatever Newcastle were demanding for Carroll we were asking that (plus £15m) for Torres or Chelsea couldn't have had him. John Henry, himself, said that he thought it was good business.

If there's still any part you still don't get just say and I'll try to explain it in even simpler terms (if that's possible).

Well we still paid £35m for him whatever way you put it. Spending Torres -15m on him doesn't change that really.

Put in some very good performances for West Ham towards the back end of the season. Hopefully convinces them to splash out the 17million.

Wish he cudda made it here, but que sera and all that.

Well we still paid £35m for him whatever way you put it.

You know what Chats you are right - we "paid" £35m. My mistake... I should have paid more attention.

Is that the same as him "costing" us £35m? What do you reckon?

spending Torres -15m on him doesn't change that really.

We "paid" £35m of the Torres £50m on him - the rest (£15m), along with the £8m from Babel,  was used to "pay" for Luis Suarez.

We "paid" £57.8m for the two [Carroll & Suarez] - we "spent" nothing; nada; zilch of our 'own'. Which, getting back to your original post, is the reason why some "bang on about the Torres/15m link". You might not understand it but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

If you start the day with no money and end it with £15 how much have you spent? Have you lost money or have you made money?  My brain hurts. 

He is meant to be a pr**k who wasn't liked around the training ground I've heard. Extra horrible to the younger lads.

We don't need pricks especially ones who aren't that special.

You know what Chats you are right - we "paid" £35m. My mistake... I should have paid more attention.

Is that the same as him "costing" us £35m? What do you reckon?
We "paid" £35m of the Torres £50m on him - the rest (£15m), along with the £8m from Babel,  was used to "pay" for Luis Suarez.

We "paid" £57.8m for the two [Carroll & Suarez] - we "spent" nothing; nada; zilch of our 'own'. Which, getting back to your original post, is the reason why some "bang on about the Torres/15m link". You might not understand it but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

If you start the day with no money and end it with £15 how much have you spent? Have you lost money or have you made money?  My brain hurts. 

Did Chelsea transfer the £35 Million straight to Newcastle?

You know what Chats you are right - we "paid" £35m. My mistake... I should have paid more attention.

Is that the same as him "costing" us £35m? What do you reckon?
We "paid" £35m of the Torres £50m on him - the rest (£15m), along with the £8m from Babel,  was used to "pay" for Luis Suarez.

We "paid" £57.8m for the two [Carroll & Suarez] - we "spent" nothing; nada; zilch of our 'own'. Which, getting back to your original post, is the reason why some "bang on about the Torres/15m link". You might not understand it but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

If you start the day with no money and end it with £15 how much have you spent? Have you lost money or have you made money?  My brain hurts. 

 

Everyone is saying that we wasted 35m on him. You are saying we wanted 15m plus Carrol. But it is not Chelsea who payed that money to New castle.  We were the one who chose Carrol. If we had signed some one proven, Chelsea would have still payed that money for Torres. And we would have one quality player plus 15m.
Ring a bell?

He is meant to be a pr**k who wasn't liked around the training ground I've heard. Extra horrible to the younger lads.

We don't need pricks especially ones who aren't that special.

Exactly. Remember Reina telling that he is the laziest at the training. And spearing the one who works the most.

You are saying we wanted 15m plus Carrol.

I'm not making this up you F***ing Muppet; I'm stating fact.

I'm guessing English isn't your first language so maybe you should read what I wrote, in it's context, again or get someone to read it to you.

John Henry (and this is well documented) said that we wanted whatever Carroll (proper spelling btw) cost plus £15m: he saw that as good business.

Did Chelsea transfer the £35 Million straight to Newcastle?

Really racer? Is that it? 

Listen if we've stopped using 'net spend' as a way of measuring how much we've actually spent then fair enough but let me know and I'll start by praising Hicks and Gillette for spending so much and slating Rafa for wasting it.

I know you don't gamble so you might not get this but... if you had £100 and bet £10 on 9 10/1 losers before you bet £10 on 1 10/1 winner you would have £110 in your wallet - have you lost £90 or won £10? Glass half full or half empty?

The hypothetical, straw-man, argument that we could have paid £35m for someone else is just that. We were not in for anyone else and (as said before) FSG saw what happened with Carroll as good business. 

I'm not making this up you F***ing Muppet; I'm stating fact.

I'm guessing English isn't your first language so maybe you should read what I wrote, in it's context, again or get someone to read it to you.

John Henry (and this is well documented) said that we wanted whatever Carroll (proper spelling btw) cost plus £15m: he saw that as good business.
Really racer? Is that it? 

Listen if we've stopped using 'net spend' as a way of measuring how much we've actually spent then fair enough but let me know and I'll start by praising Hicks and Gillette for spending so much and slating Rafa for wasting it.

I know you don't gamble so you might not get this but... if you had £100 and bet £10 on 9 10/1 losers before you bet £10 on 1 10/1 winner you would have £110 in your wallet - have you lost £90 or won £10? Glass half full or half empty?

The hypothetical, straw-man, argument that we could have paid £35m for someone else is just that. We were not in for anyone else and (as said before) FSG saw what happened with Carroll as good business. 

As intricate as it may have been, £35 Million was great business for Newcastle.
They even had a great season on the back of the transfers it allowed them to make.

I know the argument. Suarez and Carroll for Torres and Babel.
As swaps go it's not bad, especially as I  wouldn't let Suarez go for 50 Million.

Ultimately if we get somewhere in the region of 15-17 million for Carroll I think we'll have done alright.
That said, writing off a 35 million investment hurt the club at the start of the season.
No matter how we got the money we still spent it on Carroll. Part of the problem we had was the
investment that Kenny/Comolli made was effectively written off by Werner and Henry.

Carroll was part of that write off. He was also the most expensive part of it.
Maybe in the summer we can see it rectified one way or the other.

Then that gambling return you talked about starts to look better.
50 Million for Torres was probably the best bit of transfer business this club has ever achieved.
Writing off 35 million of it then, regardless of the circumstances, was one of the worst.

He is meant to be a pr**k who wasn't liked around the training ground I've heard. Extra horrible to the younger lads.

We don't need pricks especially ones who aren't that special.

Exactly. Remember Reina telling that he is the laziest at the training. And spearing the one who works the most.

Are these posts in reference to the pony-tailed one? I hadn't heard this sort of thing about him before.

I remember once watching sky sports they were interviewing someone at the england training camp and you could see the players in the background.

All the players were doing press ups bar Andy who was in the press up position looking up to see where the coach was, doing no press ups. Was F***ing fuming at the time.

What's the situation on Andy Carroll now? Is he coming back or being sold?

What's the situation on Andy Carroll now? Is he coming back or being sold?

We're currently fitting him with a bionic arse so when he falls on it he'll bounce right back up . Steve Arsetin will be his new name the $50million man .

This is not new news and was very well documented at the time but for those who missed it:

In an exclusive interview with the Guardian...

"That commitment to sound financial management was followed, not breached", Henry asserted, in the 35m Liverpool paid Newcastle United for Andy Carroll, a fee that astonished English football.

Henry said the 35m made financial sense because Liverpool were only paying to Newcastle what they were to receive from Chelsea by selling Torres, whom they allowed to leave because he had become too evidently unhappy at Anfield.

"The fee for Torres was dependent on what Newcastle asked for Carroll," Henry said, explaining that Liverpool wanted Carroll, plus 15m, to replace Torres. Together with the 6m sale of Ryan Babel to Hoffenheim, that effectively financed Liverpools 22.8m signing of Luis Suarez, meaning the club bought two strikers but net, spent almost nothing.

"The negotiation for us was simply the difference in prices paid by Chelsea and to Newcastle," Henry said. "Those prices could have been 35m [from Chelsea for Torres] and 20m [to Newcastle for Carroll], 40 and 25 or 50 and 35. It was ultimately up to Newcastle how much this was all going to cost."

http://www.forsport.ro/international/big-interview-with-john-w-henry~1968693.html

As intricate as it may have been, £35 Million was great business for Newcastle.

"Intricate"?  - No. Great business for Newcastle? - Yes... but no-one said it wasn't.

The deal was simple really; if you look at it the correct way - we wanted x plus £15m for Torres. The fee paid for Carroll was immaterial. It's not as if we went armed with £50m looking for Carroll: we went looking for £15m 'profit' on the deal for Torres and got it.

Strangely enough; if we'd done the same with Carroll to West Ham and Dempsey to here: we would have signed Dempsey but I digress... 

Think of it another way - (Figures used - for illustration only):

*  On 29 January 2011 our books were showing a  £15m loss. (i.e. Suarez fee less transfers out.)

* On 1 February 2011 our books were showing as balanced £0.00.

* No club money [profits; merchandising; sponsorship; ticket sales] was used to buy Andy Carroll.

* Our books have never shown a loss over this. Andy Carroll cost this club nothing. Suarez cost this club nothing.

* Carroll cost the club nothing on the books; as such... nothing is exactly what will be written off. 

That said, writing off a 35 million investment hurt the club at the start of the season...

... Part of the problem we had was the investment that Kenny/Comolli made was effectively written off by Werner and Henry.

Carroll was part of that write off...

... Writing off 35 million of it then, regardless of the circumstances, was one of the worst.

Any money (give or take a few quid) realised from the sale(s) of Andy Carroll (and Luis Suarez) will show as profit on the books. As such there will be no "write-off" : quite the contrary if the truth be told.  And that is thanks, in no small part to the deal which saw Torres sold for x plus £15m.

See I told you it was simple. 

And that is thanks, in no small part to the deal which saw Torres sold for x plus £15m.

See I told you it was simple.

X = £35 Million

QED

X = £35 Million

QED

Ah bless; you still don't get it. 

Thankfully, billionaire 'trader' and successful businessman John Henry does tho'. 

Ah bless; you still don't get it. 

Thankfully, billionaire 'trader' and successful businessman John Henry does tho'. 

Right so BBB.
I do get your point.
Thanks for the condescending finale though.

Who gives a F**k, I think we can all agree he's been a monumental let-down, compounded by him costing £35mill/Torres+15mill/whatever other spin you want to put on it.

He had a great opportunity coming to Liverpool and he blew it, I've no sympathy for him to be honest and I hope we get shot ASAP so we can put this whole sorry episode behind us.

Thanks for the condescending finale though.

Yeah sorry about that, way more condescending than "QED"... but I did use a smiley.

Carroll was and still is a cluster-F**k of a signing football wise; I'll never dispute that but the £35m "paid" was of no consequence to either our finances or our spending power at the time. There was never an 'opportunity cost' associated with him.

When we move him on it will be for profit [whatever that may be] and hopefully we'll be able to buy someone who'll succeed.

What's the situation on Andy Carroll now? Is he coming back or being sold?

F**k off you, sure I seen Terry de Niro ask that very question over on RAWK.

 

Yeah sorry about that, way more condescending than "QED"... but I did use a smiley.

Carroll was and still is a cluster-F**k of a signing football wise; I'll never dispute that but the £35m "paid" was of no consequence to either our finances or our spending power at the time. There was never an 'opportunity cost' associated with him.

When we move him on it will be for profit [whatever that may be] and hopefully we'll be able to buy someone who'll succeed.

QED was used as a joke.
It's how we used to have to finish off a maths question in school.
You know:

X + 15 = 50 Million.
Find X

Nothing condescending about it.

If X is of no monitory value can it be said that 15 = 50.
Did we let let Torres go for 15 million?
We let him go for Carroll + 15 million.

Carroll was still 35 million though.
Fine at the time, as the money came from Chelsea.

I do still have an issue with us throwing that player out on loan with no replacement in the summer.
If he cost Henry nothing is this why he replaced him with nothing?

A cluster F**k of a signing only because he was seen as Kenny's.
Seems to me all of Kenny's signings were originally undermined.
Carroll shown the door. Downing and Henderson almost suffered the same fate.

That's why we stuttered so badly at the start of the season.
Be it real cost or politics, writing off 70 million of one manager's signings had a negative impact on our season.

I don't expect us to agree on this.
So I'll leave it there.