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      Football around the world

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      Diego LFC
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      Football around the world
      Feb 01, 2011 05:00:15 pm
      Let's use this space to talk about the football played in countries around the world that don't have their own threads.

      Sometimes I want to speak about Brazilian football and don't have a place to do so. On the other hand, a Brazilian league thread would be too much considering there are very few members who actually watch it. So this is a thread to also talk about Netherlands (Dexter, I'm thinking of you! :P), Argentina or any other country where football is played ;D.

      As most of you probably know, I am a Flamengo fan. And this year we brought Ronaldinho back to Brazil, from Milan. He'll make his debut tomorrow night. I couldn't get a ticket for the match (and it's pissing me off!), but I can't wait for him to get started. His reception at Flamengo was pure madness and he's already said he never saw anything like this, and that he's more motivated than ever.

      Last Sunday we played the first Rio de Janeiro derby of the year, against our rivals Vasco. Won by only 2-1, but it could of been much more, as we were by far the best team. Our 2nd goal was a brilliant one (by Thiago Neves, take a look ;D):
      http://sportv.globo.com/videos/v/golaco-thiago-neves-do-flamengo/1423288/#/Futebol/Times/Flamengo/page/1

      (Changed the title a little bit - "football around the world", instead of "football leagues around the world", so it don't have to be just about the national leagues, but also continental competitions such as the Libertadores)
      « Last Edit: Feb 01, 2011 05:47:34 pm by Diego LFC »
      Dexter
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      Re: Football leagues around the world
      Reply #1: Feb 01, 2011 05:47:23 pm
      Nice one Diego! Thought about making a thread on the Dutch league several times in the past but always decided against it because I thought nobody else would be interested in it but me. :laugh: I'll make an elaborate update on this season of the Dutch Eredivisie later today.

      Diego, I think I mentioned a Brazilian called André to you before right? At least I think it was him, you knew him aswell. Played at Dinamo Kiev, think I saw him in the CL against Ajax. He only played for 20 minutes, but looked brilliant. Was surprised to read yesterday that he wasn't doing well at Kiev so they loaned him out to Bordeaux? Though France should suit him better anyway.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football leagues around the world
      Reply #2: Feb 01, 2011 05:58:40 pm
      Diego, I think I mentioned a Brazilian called André to you before right? At least I think it was him, you knew him aswell. Played at Dinamo Kiev, think I saw him in the CL against Ajax. He only played for 20 minutes, but looked brilliant. Was surprised to read yesterday that he wasn't doing well at Kiev so they loaned him out to Bordeaux? Though France should suit him better anyway.

      Yes mate, he was part of the Santos team that had a brilliant 1st semester last year, winning the São Paulo state championship and the Brazilian Cup, both in great style, playing attacking football and scoring a lot of goals, with the likes of Ganso, Neymar and Robinho also in the team.

      I like him a lot, he's not a player of Neymar's class but he's a very mobile striker with a good finish on him, promising indeed, and I was disappointed when he left to Kiev cause most Brazilian players don't do well when they go there. I don't know if it's due to the weather, or cultural aspects, but most of them become unhappy there. Also, they tend to disappear to the big public and usually lose their spots in the Brazilian squad.

      Andre should be really thankful that Mano Menezes called him again for the national team, despite his bad form (or so they say, I never watched their league myself :P), and I'm glad he's gone to France cause I see a much bigger chance of success for him there than Ukraine.
      kevinho
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #3: Feb 01, 2011 06:37:49 pm
      No one wants to talk MLS.......? Me neither.

      Diego, I would love to watch Brazilian football but they really don't show much up here in the States. Where I live, San Diego, has a huge Brazilian community, many of whom I play footie with. One guy in particular is from Sao Paulo, and insists that Brazilian teams, if they competed in the Champions League for example, would see great results and would be just as formidable as their Italian, English and Spanish counterparts.

      My favorite counter-argument to this (which doesn't come from me, mind you) is that if the players were playing in the best league, why do the best ones leave? The easy counter is for the money in Europe, especially to play in a competition like the Champions League. They maintain that Brazilian youth teams grow up together and learn football together, so when they come in to the first team they've all got a similar philosophy and familiarity, and that even teams that get gutted regularly for stars like Neymar, Ganso, Lucas etc. will be fine in these competitions. They point to Liverpool losing to Sao Paulo (which my friend does as often as he can...f**king b***ard  :D) in the Club World Cup as an example.

      What are your thoughts on how competitive these teams would be? I know that Brazil produces the best talent, but also that the talent goes elsewhere. Even with that do you think these teams could compete?
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #4: Feb 01, 2011 07:07:44 pm
      I know a lot of people who think the same as those guys but I disagree. Things are changing here, clubs are becoming a lot more professional and therefore making more money, bringing back stars from Europe, but they still have a lot to learn... in the end, the best talent goes to where the money is, and our best players are "stolen" all the time. If we could keep them, can you think of how great a league it would be? I envy my father for having watched Flamengo with the likes of Zico, Junior and Leandro, all together (considering only the players who came through our youth ranks lately, Flamengo could now have players such as Julio Cesar, Juan, Adriano and Renato Augusto).

      Thankfully this is a country that breathes and lives football, and we're always producing a lot of talent. Add to that our continental dimensions and you have a big number of clubs that can be considered "big" (it's very different to England's Top 4, Spain's Barca and Real, Italy's Milan, Inter and Juve) and a lot of intense local rivalries.

      That makes the Brazilian league one of the most exciting in the world, as it's hugely unpredictable. But I see it mostly as a league levelled by low standards: it's not that all teams are great - it's more like the other way round.

      In 2009, Flamengo won the league (wohoo ;D) and Adriano, a player who didn't even go to training on Tuesdays, was the top scorer. I can say with some knowledge of the day-by-day at the club that we're far from a organized, professional, well run club. Last year, the champions were our rivals Fluminense, who in 2009 only escaped from relegation in the very last match.

      But I also think Europeans often underestimate the quality of football in other countries. In the odd single game, with a bit of lucky maybe, a good Brazilian team could beat anyone in Europe. São Paulo did so against LFC, and so did Inter vs Barcelona in 2006, for example. To say how competitive Brazilian teams would be in European competitions is difficult, especially considering the difference of styles, but my opinion is that our league still have a lot to improve to get closer to the top European competitions, because even though we're always producing players, we're also losing them all the time (some in a very young age, like the Man Utd twins)...
      « Last Edit: Feb 01, 2011 07:15:47 pm by Diego LFC »
      Tayls
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #5: Feb 01, 2011 07:17:27 pm
      Watched a bit of south american football when I was in Bolivia late last year. Caught some Argentinian football and some Bolivian (I have a Bolivar shirt now, I love buying the football shirts of cities I visit :)).

      Unfortunately I don't think we get much Brazilian league here in England, which is a shame because it's often exciting and attractive.

      Doesn't benefit from a bit of dis-organisation as you say Diego, as well as the fact most (*most*) Brazilian talents want to earn enough recognition to engineer a move to Europe.

      The crowds are also fantastic in South America, I particularly love Gremio's 'Avalanche' Grêmio x Parana - Geral do Grêmio - AVALANCHES :D
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #6: Feb 01, 2011 07:28:24 pm
      Just out of curiosity, here are the goals of the game that made us Brazilian champions for the 6th time in 2009. All we needed was a simple win at home but when Gremio scored first it got really tense. My favorite player scored the 2nd and winning goal though ;D

      http://video.globo.com/Videos/Player/Esportes/0,,GIM1171796-7824-OS+GOLS+DE+FLAMENGO+X+GREMIO+PELA+RODADA+DO+BRASILEIRAO,00.html

      (I love showing it to everyone for obvious reasons :D)
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #7: Feb 01, 2011 07:34:27 pm
      Nice one Diego, ive often thought of starting one for the Aussie league (its sh*t, but its home :D ) so this works well.

      Love the info on the Brazilian league as well, keep it up! One i have always been interested in but don't see enough on it.
      Firepool
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #8: Feb 01, 2011 07:49:54 pm
      I watch the MLS here in the states. It may not be the best but it continually gets better as a league. They also bring over some EPL teams to play the MLS teams. It is great to see them match up. I know it is only preseason for the EPL team as it is in the summer but it is still a good challenge for us in the states. There have been a few teams that have beaten the EPL team and in no way means they are better but it progresses their game as a team. I believe the league would be better but our top players leave for Europe but there is still some who stay to help the MLS. I enjoy the league being in the summer as I get proper football all year round.
      adammac
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #9: Feb 01, 2011 09:26:03 pm
      I watch the MLS here in the states. It may not be the best but it continually gets better as a league. They also bring over some EPL teams to play the MLS teams. It is great to see them match up. I know it is only preseason for the EPL team as it is in the summer but it is still a good challenge for us in the states. There have been a few teams that have beaten the EPL team and in no way means they are better but it progresses their game as a team. I believe the league would be better but our top players leave for Europe but there is still some who stay to help the MLS. I enjoy the league being in the summer as I get proper football all year round.

      Do you have a MLS club which you follow?
      Firepool
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #10: Feb 01, 2011 09:32:25 pm
      Do you have a MLS club which you follow?

      Yes, I follow the Chicago Fire
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #11: Feb 02, 2011 11:48:47 pm
      Ronaldinho's 1st game in a Flamengo shirt starting in a few minutes.

      If anyone is interested in watching (which I know is unlikely :P), I could try to find you a link.
      Adryan
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #12: Feb 03, 2011 12:07:41 am
      Football standard in my country is so crap.

      Won the Suzuki Cup this year, though, I think. Only best thing I've seen so far ...

      My country is in blue
      Malaysia 3-0 Indonesia

      A brace against Man United in 2009

      2 Gol Amri Yahyah - Malaysia Lawan (vs) manchester united
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #13: Feb 03, 2011 08:33:49 pm
      Ronaldinho's 1st game in a Flamengo shirt starting in a few minutes.

      If anyone is interested in watching (which I know is unlikely :P), I could try to find you a link.



      It says: "Welcome R10"

      With the goalscorer of the night, Wanderley (we won by 1-0):



      Saluting the fans:

      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #14: Feb 13, 2011 03:38:45 am
      South American U-21 championship is on it's final minutes. Brazil winning their last match by 5-0 against Uruguay to win the trophy and secure qualification for the Olympic games. Uruguay will finish 2nd and are also going to London.

      Argentina out ;D

      Neymar is the top scorer and also the best player in the competition. He's world class already. Lucas (São Paulo) has also been great, he's very bright future ahead of him.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #15: Feb 13, 2011 03:51:32 am
      Lucas again! His 3rd tonight. 6-0

      Another fantastic goal. Brazil are brilliant atm
      soxfan
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #16: Feb 23, 2011 11:48:19 pm
      Good article about the development of young players in Brazil...

      Sao Paulo's Lucas duo potentially the next great Brazilian exports
      by Tim Vickery, Sports Illustrated

      Soccer said farewell to one of its all-time greats last week when Ronaldo announced his retirement. Brazil was awash with reflections on the career of the man with more World Cup goals than anyone else -- and Ronaldo was asked to contribute. Where would he place himself in the pantheon of Brazilian strikers?

      With complete justification, he placed himself second or third. The only player he named as his superior was Pele -- "even back then he was modern," Ronaldo commented.

      Pele's tactical versatility and commitment to physical preparation bear out Ronaldo's words. But in one respect Pele was not modern at all. He was not built for export.

      Brazilian players have been moving to Europe for decades -- the country even supplied a member of Italy's 1934 World Cup winning squad, right winger Guarisi. But until comparatively recently, it was not only possible for a top Brazilian player to spend his entire career at home, it was commonplace. The first time that a Brazil World Cup squad contained foreign-based players was as recently as 1986.

      Then the global market opened for business. Ronaldo was a skinny kid of just 17 when he joined PSV of Holland in 1994. His success added motion to the wheel. It quickly became customary for almost the entire Brazil squad to be comprised of European-based players.

      Recent economic developments have brought about a change in the terms of trade. Europe's crisis coupled with the strength of the Brazilian currency mean that Brazil can now hold on to some of its talented players for a while longer, and bring them back across the Atlantic a little sooner to round off their careers. But this is a shift rather than a revolution. The basic movement continues in the same direction.

      Promising Brazilian kids now grow up dreaming of starring for Barcelona or Real Madrid, and a host of companies have set up feeder clubs happy to profit from such a deal, spotting and developing young talent and selling it on. Supermarkets, drink manufacturers and marketing firms have all set up soccer clubs with this aim.

      Of the established Brazilian clubs, the most successful in recent years have been those whose administration has been based on selling to Europe. Over the last decade Santos have become stalwarts of South America's Copa Libertadores for the first time since the early '60s, based on successive waves of budding talent. Current holders of the Libertadores, Internacional, have been producing and selling systematically. And no club has invested more in youth development than Sao Paulo, winners of the domestic title for three consecutive years between 2006-08. The club, which produced the likes of Kaka and Hernanes, is well known for its state of the art structure.

      Brazilian players injured in Europe frequently choose to carry out their recuperation at Sao Paulo's medical facilities -- and the resources at the disposal of their youth players are also considered second to none.

      Indeed, there have been some whispers of late that the youth structure might be too good. Perhaps, it has been said, promising youngsters are being spoiled. Everything is being put on a plate for them too early, some say, and as a result they are losing hunger at a stage when they should be ravenous for an opportunity.

      These theories have been hauled out in an attempt to explain why the recent results of all this investment have been a little disappointing. Not enough of Sao Paulo's youth players have been making the breakthrough to the senior side.

      Perhaps that talk will die down now. The recent South American Under-20 Championships in Peru was something of a triumph for Sao Paulo. Brazil captain Bruno Uvini, injured during the campaign, is a Sao Paulo player. So too is talented striker Henrique. Even more impressive was big, all-round midfielder Casemiro. And best of all was right-sided attacking midfielder Lucas, the hero as Brazil was crowned South American champion.

      With perfect timing, Lucas chose exactly the right moment to leave a good impression in the tournament -- the last game, with the title at stake. Uruguay only needed a draw, and for 40 minutes on a pitch suffering from the effects of heavy rain, they looked well on the way. Then came the Lucas show, with two goals in quick succession.

      For the first he ran on to receive a ball pulled back from the left, made space and hit a precise shot back across the keeper. The second was a superb solo effort, charging through from half way, outpacing everyone to slip home from a narrow angle. The game and the title were in the bag. And just to make sure no one forgot him, at the end of the game he completed his hat trick, rounding off the 6-0 rout with a vicious cross shot.

      It was the type of performance that Lucas had been threatening throughout the competition. In all previous games he had only scored once, despite setting up a multitude of chances for himself. Team play is not yet his speciality. Indeed, at times he seems to play in a tunnel, with no peripheral vision. But with surprising strength, astonishing pace and dancing feet, Lucas charged and slalomed his way through many a defense in Peru. Both physically and in playing style, he bears comparison with Arsenal's Theo Walcott.

      It was another resemblance, though, that marked the start of his career. Until a few months ago he was known as Marcelinho, the consequence of a perceived likeness with 1990s star Marcelinho Carioca. But as he made his name in the Sao Paulo first team, it hardly seemed appropriate that the name belonged to an idol of local rivals Corinthians. So in the middle of last year's Brazilian Championship he switched to Lucas, his genuine Christian name.

      He perhaps benefited from an unusual year in the recent history of Sao Paulo. Mid table, they were not in serious contention for a Copa Libertadores place, still less the title, and the new boy took his first steps with the pressure off.

      All that has now changed. Lucas is now in the spotlight. Good displays are no longer a bonus. They are now expected. But he is being well rewarded. His exploits in Peru brought Lucas a 900 percent pay rise from Sao Paulo. He is not planning to go anywhere soon. His stated aim is to play for the club in the Libertadores, making the middle of next year his earliest possible departure date. But it is clear that a move to Europe is well in his sights, for motives both professional and financial -- a reported clause in his new contract gives him the right to 20 percent of the transfer fee. Lucas has been built for export.

      His club coach, Paulo Cesar Carpegiani, is a big fan. But experience has taught him to be wary. A decade ago he was one of Adriano's first coaches as the strong left-footed striker launched his career with Flamengo. Adriano's subsequent story, with his alcohol problems, is a cautionary tale of the possible negative consequences of early fame and fortune. It can be hard enough coping with all this at home. An early move abroad can add an extra strain on a young mind in formation.

      Perhaps Carpegiani's concern would be even better directed towards another Sao Paulo Lucas -- the much-hyped 17-year-old Lucas Piazon, who has already attracted interest from top European clubs even before kicking a ball at senior level. Former Brazil Under-17 coach Lucho Nizzo describes Piazon as "a sensational striker." He is the player that everyone will want to see in the coming South American Under-17 Championships in Ecuador.

      He could be a smash hit in the tournament. But it would not necessarily make him a sure thing. Hard experience shows that Under-17 is still very early down the line. Some may recall the case of Kerlon, the star of the show in the 2005 South American Under-17 Championships, looking more impressive than the likes of Anderson, now of Manchester Umited, and Renato Augusto of Bayer Leverkusen. Six years later Kerlon is still struggling to get his senior career off the ground. Players at this age still have a lot of maturing to do -- in physical, technical and psychological terms. There are few guarantees. Maybe the only certainty is that Lucas Piazon will find his "new Kaka" nickname something of a burden as he seeks to make his own name.

      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/tim_vickery/02/22/brazil.ronaldo/index.html#ixzz1EpPLkueG
      Dexter
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #17: Feb 27, 2011 06:07:39 pm
      Haven't really got around to posting anything about the dutch league before. Watched PSV-Ajax earlier, very important game, ended in 0-0. Stekelenburg made some fantastic saves, been very impressed with him this past year.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #18: Feb 28, 2011 09:09:49 pm
      Yesterday Ronaldinho won his first title with Flamengo, the Taça Guanabara. It's not exactly a title to be strictly accurate, but it's historically celebrated as such and there's a big trohpy to crown the 'champion' (also, with the carnival only a few days away, any extra reason to celebrate is welcome). The Taça Guanabara is actually the first 'round' of the Rio de Janeiro State Championship (Campeonato Carioca) and winning it garantee us a place in the competition's big final against the winner of the 2nd round, called the Taça Rio - unless we win it too and are crowned champions without the need of a final.

      We're still unbeaten this year (9 games if I'm not mistaken) but have not played very well in any of them to be honest. Yesterday was another example. But we won, and that's what matters in the end ;D. Ronaldinho has not been brilliant either. Our coach still have to find the best way to play him, he has constantly changed our system so far. But R10 scored the winning and only goal of the match, and that's what matters in the end ;D

      A nice free kick, as you can see in this link:

      http://video.globo.com/Videos/Player/Esportes/0,,GIM1446974-7824-O+GOL+DE+FLAMENGO+X+BOAVISTA+NA+DECISAO+DA+TACA+GUANABARA,00.html
      « Last Edit: Feb 28, 2011 09:21:27 pm by Diego LFC »
      Dexter
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #19: Mar 01, 2011 05:24:24 pm
      Always thought that was confusing about football there Diego, the state championships and what not.

      Remember Douglas, Twente's Brazilian central defender. I mentioned him a while ago because he's gaining Dutch nationality to become part of the Dutch national team, which should be soon. Still like him, think he's a beast, but not just defensively sound, good passer aswell and has worldclass potential in my opinion. The only but is, he has a temper issue, hope that irons out the older he gets, we need good defenders. :P If it wasn't for his temper issue I would've liked to see us going for him as soon as he gained the Dutch nationality actually. He completely lost it this weekend:

      Douglas krijgt rood, wil de scheids zowat bijten en slaat wernbloom nog eens AZ- Twente 1 - 0 2011

      Made Van Marwijk a bit worried. Apparently he lost it because it's the 3rd time that ref gave him red. Got suspended for the next 6 games.
      « Last Edit: Mar 01, 2011 05:31:12 pm by Dexter »
      QuicoGalante
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #20: Mar 14, 2011 12:33:47 am
      Going down memory line Diego! Do you remember this brawl?
      Peleea historica peñarol vs flamengo

      Should i start a Brawls thread? LOL, i remember some epic ones.
      cheers
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #21: Mar 14, 2011 02:15:34 am
      Haha, yeah mate, classic stuff, I do remember it very well, we ended up winning this competition ;), the Copa Mercosur 1999.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #22: Mar 14, 2011 07:36:03 pm
      Are you a Peñarol fan, Quico?
      QuicoGalante
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #23: Mar 14, 2011 10:34:33 pm
      Yes I am. We are pretty much in the same situation as Liverpool. Glorious, and unmatched past, but struggling in the present. Unfortunately, we will never have the cash to be buyers, just sellers.

      5 Times Libertadores Cup Champions, 3 Times World Champions, 46 Uruguayan Titles, and Best South American Club of the XX century(according to IFFHS)thats just to list the important ones. Hell, we were Champions in the land of champions.
      Up untill 1990 we were pretty much the best team in the world title-wise,along with Madrid, but present day its impossible for us to struggle with the drain in talent. Our stars are sold before they turn 20.

      And we were founded by the British Railway Workers, so we owe England a debt of gratitude, and most of the founders were originary of Liverpool, hence my simpathy towards the club! The year was 1891.

      I have a Flamengo shirt i got from a girl in Floripa! And a Fluminense shirt from her girl friend, LOL.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Football around the world
      Reply #24: Mar 15, 2011 01:21:37 am
      Haha, nice! Great to have more South Americans in the forum.

      Visiting Uruguay is on my list, Sportv (Brazilian sports channel) showed a docummentary about the Estadio Centenario a few months ago, I have to visit it one day.

      I live about 5-10 minutes from the Maracanã, I'll be visiting the San Siro, the Olympic Stadium of Rome and Anfield next month, Wembley is also on my list, plus many others. Love football stadiums and any kind of 'football tourism' ;D

      And I always hear Punta Del Este is a brilliant place!

      Ever read 'El fútbol a sol y sombra', by your countrymen Eduardo Galeano?

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