Fernando Torres was worth £70m, says Rafael Benitez

Fernando Torres was worth £70m, says Rafael Benitez

Former Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez has revealed a £70m deal for Fernando Torres was mooted last year, and that he would like to manage the club again.

Striker Torres joined Chelsea on Monday for a British record fee of about £50m, but he had been valued even higher.

"I think last year we were talking about £70m," Benitez said in an interview for the BBC's Football Focus.

The 50-year-old Spaniard also said he would be keen to manage the Anfield club again at some stage in the future.

Torres moved to Chelsea on transfer deadline day, although the Blues had reportedly made a bid in May 2010. Despite a knee injury at the end of last season, he featured in Spain's World Cup-winning campaign.

"People were talking about maybe you receive an offer from another club. They were talking about £70m," added Benitez.

Of Torres' transfer deadline day move to Stamford Bridge, Benitez said: "He was not playing at the same level the last time, but he is still a very good player. It is big money but could [have been] even better."

Benitez was sacked by Italian side Inter Milan in December only six months after it was announced he had left Liverpool by mutual consent following six years in charge.

He guided the Reds to Champions League success in 2005 and an FA Cup win the following year, and was in charge when Torres signed from Atletico Madrid for £20m in the summer of 2007.

Roy Hodgson was appointed as successor after Benitez's departure from Anfield, but he only lasted six months before Liverpool legend Kenny Dalglish was drafted in until the end of the season.

With Liverpool's form improving under the Scot, and the club's owners spending the Torres cash on strikers Andy Carroll (£35m) and Luis Suarez (£22m), Dalglish looks set for a longer stay.

But Benitez said: "To be manager of Liverpool is a dream for me. This time, I know that Kenny is doing really well.

"I have to wait and keep watching games, but if you say to me in the future would you like to be manager, for sure, no doubt about this. When, that is the question. I have to move forward, anyway."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/9387118.stm

Agree, I think he is, when Torres is on form hes the best striker in the world no question.

However, seen as it was rumoured he had a clause in his contract which meant a buy out of 50m was possible providing Liverpool didn't reach the champions league, he would have therefore gone in the summer anyway for the same price.

Best all round shipping him out now and getting in two quality strikers who want the shirt.

Well sadly, he is worth nothing to us now.

Well sadly, he is worth nothing to us now.

Don't know he may be wortth the feel good factor of sending any shirts with his name on to Africa.

Hate to admit but I agree with Rafa, a fit and firing Torres must be worth £70m considering Ronaldo went for £80m

Rafa interview was brilliant said he would love to be Liverpool manager again said Carroll and Suarez were very good players

The support for Rafa from the Liverpool fans must have touched him really deeply, I mean lets be honest here , you never hear him speak so affectionately about Real Madrid, Extremadura, Tenerife, Valencia or Inter, it shows that we really are a special club, you only have to look at the Likes of Thompson, Dalglish, Ian St John even Luis Garcia to show the impact that this club and the fans have on our former employee's.

Sad thing about that is, Torres will most likely live to regret his decision, he went from Hero to Zero over night when he could have quite easily become a legend and went down in history as one of the greatest ever players to wear a red shirt.

Sad really sad.

He has been F***ing conned by his agent that Chelsea are a big club the only thing big about them is Romans wallet

The support for Rafa from the Liverpool fans must have touched him really deeply, I mean lets be honest here , you never hear him speak so affectionately about Real Madrid, Extremadura, Tenerife, Valencia or Inter, it shows that we really are a special club, you only have to look at the Likes of Thompson, Dalglish, Ian St John even Luis Garcia to show the impact that this club and the fans have on our former employee's.

Sad thing about that is, Torres will most likely live to regret his decision, he went from Hero to Zero over night when he could have quite easily become a legend and went down in history as one of the greatest ever players to wear a red shirt.

Sad really sad.

Is right.

Fernando Torres was a legend in the making. Like I stated, Fernando said when he arrived "I want to be remembered in 20 years time like how Kenny Dalglish" but sorry, Fernando, you will always be rememebered as that selfish, fraud, lying and money grabbing c**t.

He will never be a legend here and he's hardly going to be remembered as a legend at Chelsea.

Another shitty headline that misleads.

"I think last year we were talking about £70m"

Clearly there is a fundamental difference between when a player is playing well, and when he isn't and hands in a transfer request.

In any case, obvious that the previous owners valued him at £70M.  They did seem to have a problem with valuations.

Especially when they 'valued' LFC (a club that was in £450M of debt) as worth $1 billion.

Epic swindlers.

This is more important news.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/04/liverpool-owners-longterm-deal-kenny-dalglish

This is more important news.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/feb/04/liverpool-owners-longterm-deal-kenny-dalglish

. ...and that's why it's got it's own thread here: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=36301.0

The headline says it all for me. The lying c**t WAS worth £70 million, before he embarked on a 12-18 month run of injuries, bad form, lack of interest, self preservation, disrespect and whinging and b***ard moaning!.

Torres is gone, Rafa is gone, Kenny is in charge now, let's focus on us and nobody else.

. ...and that's why it's got it's own thread here: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=36301.0

The headline says it all for me. The lying c**t WAS worth £70 million, before he embarked on a 12-18 month run of injuries, bad form, lack of interest, self preservation, disrespect and whinging and b***ard moaning!.

Torres is gone, Rafa is gone, Kenny is in charge now, let's focus on us and nobody else.

Who is doing the whining and the moaning here?
Why is it that Rafa feels the need to keep jumping up like a Jack In The Box making comments.
Yes. Probably worth more if we had had the real Torres not the...

 

"I really couldnt give sh*t but wait its the Chelsea game" Torres.

Dont forget the motto. The lower the fee the higher the wages.
Money For Nothing ... That kid aint dumb.

Anyway Rafa. Just on the number of games you could count on your hand the King has got us to 7th.

Remember that number?

7

"To be manager of Liverpool is a dream for me. This time, I know that Kenny is doing really well.

"I have to wait and keep watching games, but if you say to me in the future would you like to be manager, for sure, no doubt about this. When, that is the question. I have to move forward, anyway."

Amazing I'm happy with Kenny and the job should be his for how long he wants, but if he decides to step down, then there's only one man I would like to have as our manager, and his first name is Rafael.

Who is doing the whining and the moaning here?
Why is it that Rafa feels the need to keep jumping up like a Jack In The Box making comments.
Yes. Probably worth more if we had had the real Torres not the...

 

"I really couldnt give sh*t but wait its the Chelsea game" Torres.

Dont forget the motto. The lower the fee the higher the wages.
Money For Nothing ... That kid aint dumb.

Anyway Rafa. Just on the number of games you could count on your hand the King has got us to 7th.

Remember that number?

Sorry mate but why do you jump up on rafa quickly when he only speaks good of the club and fans? Why?

Anyway Rafa. Just on the number of games you could count on your hand the King has got us to 7th.

Remember that number?

Indeed, it's from that song 'In Istanbul, we....'

Great number! how could he forget?!

Torres of 2009 was easily worth £70m - he was fit, firing on all cylinders and had sell-on value as he was only 24.

Torres of 2011 was worth maybe £35m - dodgy fitness record, lost half a yard of pace, off-form, with little sell-on value at almost 27

We got a great deal getting Suarez (23) and Carroll (22) for him

Who is doing the whining and the moaning here?
Why is it that Rafa feels the need to keep jumping up like a Jack In The Box making comments.
Yes. Probably worth more if we had had the real Torres not the...

 

"I really couldnt give sh*t but wait its the Chelsea game" Torres.

Dont forget the motto. The lower the fee the higher the wages.
Money For Nothing ... That kid aint dumb.

Anyway Rafa. Just on the number of games you could count on your hand the King has got us to 7th.

Remember that number?

Exactly - Rafa's just publicising himself in the hope that he'll be considered to come back to liverpool in the summer. That ship has sailed i'm afraid.

Anyway Rafa. Just on the number of games you could count on your hand the King has got us to 7th.

Remember that number?

While you're busy remembering numbers here's two names you have probably forgotten all about.. Hicks & Gillett.

For the record Rafa got us to second and finishing seventh was a consequence of Hicks, Gillett and Purslow sabotaging the squad, restricting team selections (to prevent activation of appearance clauses in contracts) and providing Rafa with a negative transfer budget.

Rafa struggled with all of that and fought tooth and nail to preserve the spirit of this club and for the fans against a twisted media and owners.

It will for ever bring shame upon some "so called" fans that they couldn't see past S*n owning Murdoch's anti Liverpool agenda and betrayed Rafa. What those fans brought upon Liverpool was near administration, near relegation and Roy Hodgson. Fortunately these "so called" fans keep a low profile these day because everyone knows and understands the consequences of their betrayal and thank God we had Kenny and FSG to get us out of the mire.
 
I'm delighted that Kenny is here and that FSG are showing him the kind of backing that Hicks/Gillett/Purslow never showed to Rafa. I just wish that Rafa had been given the backing that he needed and we could have avoided the nightmare that those "so called" fans contributed to.

Rafa was dignified and respectful as ever to Kenny and you can bet he will be delighted to see us back on the right track because he puts Liverpool FC and the fans first. He said that he would take the job again after Kenny and I would be more than happy to see him back here and properly backed by responsible owners.

One thing is for sure Rafa is one of us, always will be and will always be welcome back which is more than I can say for those "so called" fans.  

YMWA

For me , the biggest thing with regard to his value , is how unprofessional he has been !!

We all knew he was frustrated , things weren't moving quickly enough for him , so to all intents and purposes he went on strike.

No he didn't refuse to play but in many games , he may as well  have done that, because he just didn't try !

He certainly didn't earn his salary. But he was our golden boy and we made excuses. The view is much clearer now!!

I don't care how frustrated he was , we had every right to expect him to give his all. He didn't.

His sulking affected everyone. He's supposed to be a professional . NEVER !!  Doctor's and nurses are professionals , they must get fed up and frustrated . Do they sulk , not try  , no they get on with it !! Plus they don't earn over £100,000 a week !

So Chelsea paid £50m for a player who is not professional in any way.

Fantastic player when things are going his way, a liability when they're not.

I think we got the better deal !!

Agree, I think he is, when Torres is on form hes the best striker in the world no question.

Have to disagree with this statement. I suppose it all depends on what you mean by striker, but if we're talking forwards i'm not convinced at all. I think now he's left we can look at it more objectively.

Ahead of him I would have: Messi, Ronaldo, Villa definitely. Then probably Drogba and Eto'o.

Hate to admit but I agree with Rafa, a fit and firing Torres must be worth £70m considering Ronaldo went for £80m

Hate to say it but Ronaldo was a different class from Torres.

He was incredible, single handedly won the scum at least 2 premierships. Pace, strength, skill, incredible in the air, could score from 40 yards, and most importantly never ever got injured. Best footballer I've seen live by a stretch.

To be honest, it doesn't matter what he was worth last summer, it's irrelevant.

The only things that count are his form this season, and the fact he wanted to leave three days before the transfer window closed.

All things considered I am happy with the amount we received for him given the circumstances.

Just a pity looking back that we didn't sell him for £70million when we had the chance. We certainly havent seen a fully committed player since then, and I doubt we would be in a much worse position IF we had been allowed to invest that money in players. On the other hand would we ever have seen that £70million again under those robbing bas**rds? 

would we ever have seen that £70million again under those robbing bas**rds?  

No.

We're lucky to have NESV who were prepared to pump that money back into the club immediately.

If he had left under Hicks and Gillett, we wouldn't have see a penny. Fact.

Hate to say it but Ronaldo was a different class from Torres.

He was incredible, single handedly won the scum at least 2 premierships. Pace, strength, skill, incredible in the air, could score from 40 yards, and most importantly never ever got injured. Best footballer I've seen live by a stretch.

He may have done just that mate, but bear in mind the season he pipped Torres to the golden boot a lot of his goals came from set pieces and penalties, all of Nando's goals came through open play, granted he is a striker, but that was one hell of a goal haul from open play, which you probably won't see from another premiership striker for around another decade.

 Well I'm not going to get involved in yet another debate about Rafa Benitez and whether or not he should ever be our manager again, everyone has their own views on that. As for Torres being worth 70 million when he was at his very best, he probably was worth at least that if he's worth 50 million now and hasn't tried an inch all season. Whether or not it's helpful or useful to spend too much time discussing it is entirely another matter.

I've got no doubt that he'll be back one day.

The part when he says, "Kenny is doing well now, I have to wait" sort of shows that he'd be happy to take the job again now but he knows he'll have to wait for another time in the future.

I'd guess he'll go off somewhere else for now and some time in the future, he'll come back with even more experience.

Anyway, thanks for the continual support Rafa YNWA

Those who slag Rafa should realize that when he was manager under H&G he got no support. Remember it wasn't long ago that we flirted with the possibility of administration. Do we assume players are stupid and have no ambition. Remember Gerrard almost left us until he saw the possibility of tangible success and investment. The last two seasons under Rafa saw absolutely no investment rather it was asset stripping. I know Rafa has made a few mediocre signings and that is precisely because of the lack of investment which forced him to settle for players who came cheaper eg Riera instead of silva. Players want to see ambition displayed by their clubs especially world class ones. Although I am beginning to dislike torres I cannot but help but empathize with him in some manner especially when the board gave him assurances of investments and then brought in the world class poulsen and Konchesky. Alonso left and no replacement (Aqua injured), Masch left and we got poulsen. Who wouldn't notice the lack of ambitions. Players such as C Cole linked to partner Torres or huth and I could go on forever. If memory serves me right Torres pointed out that the squad needed investment way back in the feb of 2009. Moreover which player would like to play the football dished out by Roy who even had the vision to send Aqua on loan who sadly we will never see again in a liverpool shirt. A world class midfielder sent on loan and in his place we have poulsen. I think when we direct accusations to Torres, Masch or for that matter Rafa we have to keep in mind  the circumstances in which they operated and not forget that they too are humans and not perfect. I for one blame the bumbling excuse of a board which brought us to the brink of administration sold our best players, meddled in the signing of Keane etc. To be honest I feel torres is right in his career choice but the way he left us leaves a bad taste in the mouth considering that we are going to be challenging for major honours very soon. I just wish torres would have shown a little bit of faith in our club and hung around just a bit longer and that is what true fans do and which I expected Torres to also do but on course that's in history, we move on and there is not better way of showing that by getting Suarez and Carrol. For now Kenny is the perfect man but when he does go hopefully not in the near future I would love Rafa to come and show why he is regarded as one of the best managers around.

I think what eurored is saying mate is this.

This Club is on a major high at the moment. The reason for that high is Kenny Dalglish. Kenny inherited a squad that was low on confidence, in fact it was shot to pieces. That in part was due to Rafa and Roy. Roy took a squad from Rafa that was severely underperforming, Roy added inferior players to that squad and it deteriorated to the point that Roy was sacked.

Kenny came in and totally ripped up the styles of football that we played under both managers. These players are now playing better football and playing with more freedom. Something that was denied them by Rafa and Roy.

We are entering a new era, Dalglish will be here for at least another 5-6 years. Rafa has gone now, if people want to massage his ego then there is a thread for that, we don't need to see stuff regurgitated about previous managers in the Kop section.

I have a lot of respect for Rafa but his time has gone, seeing lots of posts hinting at a return is not needed. Whether he'll return in the future or not we'll have to wait and see, there is absolutely no point in dwelling on it.

Liverpool Football Club is progressing at a fantastic rate. That is down to Kenny, the players, the owners and the fans. Let's concentrate all our efforts on them and not the past.

Whether or not it's helpful or useful to spend too much time discussing it is entirely another matter.

Hear hear.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say HardCore. Thanks.

I saw this this morning and thought "What ever"

I feel the most important word here is not £70m, but was.

Since last year, IMO, Torres, was been poor. Remember Spain were concerned we would "injure" him for the World Cup. So there have been concerns about his fitness for a while.

May be he was worth £70m some time ago, but is that figure only relevant because of the £80m Real paid for Ronaldo?

Personally I feel £50m for him is too much.

Now £35m for Carroll? Too much? may be, but is Carroll worth £10m less than Torres, probably.

Torres has done nothing over the last 18 mounths to justify a 50 million price tag, never mind 70 million!

I think we got a better deal than the Chavs. We had 1 striker, now we have two, and both are younger than Torre$.

Who is doing the whining and the moaning here?
Why is it that Rafa feels the need to keep jumping up like a Jack In The Box making comments.
Yes. Probably worth more if we had had the real Torres not the...

 

"I really couldnt give sh*t but wait its the Chelsea game" Torres.

Dont forget the motto. The lower the fee the higher the wages.
Money For Nothing ... That kid aint dumb.

Anyway Rafa. Just on the number of games you could count on your hand the King has got us to 7th.

Remember that number?

7

Do you F***ing cream your pants everytime you see a chance to give a stupid little comment about Rafa these days? F***ing hell.

Rafa was unbelieveably complimentary to the club in the interview, people should stop trying to look for any F***ing excuse to F***ing  have a hop off him.

 Last week he was doing voluntary work for the Hillborough charity. The man is a F***ing legend and people should shut the F**k up slagging him off.

Sad thing about that is, Torres will most likely live to regret his decision, he went from Hero to Zero over night when he could have quite easily become a legend and went down in history as one of the greatest ever players to wear a red shirt.

Sad really sad.

I'm just imagining Torres in his mid 30's, career over,  with just an FA cup runners up medal to show for his club career that was won with chelsea, knowing that if he had stayed on at Liverpool he'd of won the league 2012-2013 and been a legend for eternity.....

£50million for a player who has been injured mostly and out of top form for 18 months.

He WAS £70million but £50million was brilliant!

The point that is being missed is that if he was sold for £70 million last year this would have gone straight to H & G and the club would not have seen a penny of this. He is still a great problem, but surely his value has dropped as he has been S**te for 95% of this season

Do you f**king cream your pants everytime you see a chance to give a stupid little comment about Rafa these days? F***ing hell.

Do you cream yours every time you see his name? Seems like.

Sick of whingers. 
Fantastic job to manage Liverpool?  Just do the garden Rafa. Its over. Get over it or get a job on SSN.

Do you cream yours every time you see his name? Seems like.

Sick of whingers. 
Fantastic job to manage Liverpool?  Just do the garden Rafa. Its over. Get over it or get a job on SSN.

Then you wonder why people take exception to your post regarding rafa.

Its a results business Shabs.
Thats what Kenny said the other week.

Do you cream yours every time you see his name? Seems like.

Sick of whingers. 
Fantastic job to manage Liverpool?  Just do the garden Rafa. Its over. Get over it or get a job on SSN.

No i don't, i respect the man immensely though. And your utter lack of respect, and the stabs you have at him EVERY F***ing TIME his name comes up pisses me off. It's not a matter of opinion, you are simply just being completely unreasonable towards a man who has shown just as much love to this club than many others who we hold in high regard have. Would you say the same if he was a scouser? Because if we went on attitude alone, i'd hardly be able to pick him apart from the likes of Stevie and co.

He was worth 70 million 2 years ago. I think 50 million now was a good deal. He will never be as good as he was 2 years ago.

Rafa was unbelieveably complimentary to the club in the interview, people should stop trying to look for any f**king excuse to f**king  have a hop off him.

 Last week he was doing voluntary work for the Hillborough charity. The man is a f**king legend and people should shut the f**k up slagging him off.

corbally mate, Rafa has his own thread. The only manager i want to see being discussed is our current manager. He is the man to take this Club forward, Rafa is not coming back just yet. We know of all the great work he's done and still does. F**k me, it's like a F***ing wankfest when his name gets mentioned. We know he's a great man but we don't need it rammed down our throats every single F***ing day!.

Rafa said Torres was worth £70 million - So F***ing what, it means sh*t.

Rafa wants to come back as manager one day - i'm sure he will, but he should get on with his life until that opportunity arises.

He says lovely things about us - so do loads of other people and ex managers. They don't keep getting constantly F***ing mentioned in here though.

It will be a good 5-6 years until Rafa gets a chance to come back, i suggest he gets another job, preferably longer than 6 months next time. I genuinely love the man but he had his first stint, he's like a jealous ex.

Even if Kenny offered him an assistant role, he wouldn't take it because he would feel it is beneath him. His time will come again but not anytime soon.

Let it go people.

Hardcore hit the nail on the head with his first post for me.

I think what eurored is saying mate is this.

This Club is on a major high at the moment. The reason for that high is Kenny Dalglish. Kenny inherited a squad that was low on confidence, in fact it was shot to pieces. That in part was due to Rafa and Roy. Roy took a squad from Rafa that was severely underperforming, Roy added inferior players to that squad and it deteriorated to the point that Roy was sacked.

Kenny came in and totally ripped up the styles of football that we played under both managers. These players are now playing better football and playing with more freedom. Something that was denied them by Rafa and Roy.

We are entering a new era, Dalglish will be here for at least another 5-6 years. Rafa has gone now, if people want to massage his ego then there is a thread for that, we don't need to see stuff regurgitated about previous managers in the Kop section.

I have a lot of respect for Rafa but his time has gone, seeing lots of posts hinting at a return is not needed. Whether he'll return in the future or not we'll have to wait and see, there is absolutely no point in dwelling on it.

Liverpool Football Club is progressing at a fantastic rate. That is down to Kenny, the players, the owners and the fans. Let's concentrate all our efforts on them and not the past.

You're on a roll today mate ...... another good post

You're on a roll today mate ...... another good post

I'm just sick to death of seeing posts about Rafa all over the Kop threads when Kenny is in charge. There will be no comeback, Kenny is here for the long haul. People need to accept that.

Kenny is where he belongs
Should of been there 10 years ago

The Mancs wouldn't be closing in on 19
if he had of been........

Kenny Must Stay...

£50 mill was an absolute deal for sulky bollox

Rafa was right he WAS worth more
2 years ago......

Good Riddance Traitor..

Yawn!

I'm just sick to death of seeing posts about Rafa all over the Kop threads when Kenny is in charge. There will be no comeback, Kenny is here for the long haul. People need to accept that.

I don't think there is one fan on here that doesn't accept that. We all are fully behind Kenny. I don't want him going anywhere for as long as can be. He's ours. He's perfect for the job. We all F***ing love him.

That doesn't mean people can't admire Rafa just like we admire past players and managers alike.

I don't think there is one fan on here that doesn't accept that. We all are fully behind Kenny. I don't want him going anywhere for as long as can be. He's ours. He's perfect for the job. We all f**king love him.

That doesn't mean people can't admire Rafa just like we admire past players and managers alike.

I don't have a problem with that mate. i just don't want to see it all over the Kop section. That is for footballing talk regarding the Club and players. Not ex managers.

I don't have a problem with that mate. I just don't want to see it all over the Kop section. That is for footballing talk regarding the Club and players. Not ex managers.

I agree with that. Keep things related to Torres and Rafa away from the Kop section.

Agreed hardcore, and glad to see it moved. Most will know I was a fan of Rafa, for sure. But my choice right now is 100% Kenny, and if the owners brought Rafa in now (don't think they will) I'd be disappointed.

^ Same as me.

I love Rafa but Kenny should only be discussed in the Kop.

For me , the biggest thing with regard to his value , is how unprofessional he has been !!

We all knew he was frustrated , things weren't moving quickly enough for him , so to all intents and purposes he went on strike.

No he didn't refuse to play but in many games , he may as well  have done that, because he just didn't try !

He certainly didn't earn his salary. But he was our golden boy and we made excuses. The view is much clearer now!!

I don't care how frustrated he was , we had every right to expect him to give his all. He didn't.

His sulking affected everyone. He's supposed to be a professional . NEVER !!  Doctor's and nurses are professionals , they must get fed up and frustrated . Do they sulk , not try  , no they get on with it !! Plus they don't earn over £100,000 a week !

So Chelsea paid £50m for a player who is not professional in any way.

Fantastic player when things are going his way, a liability when they're not.

I think we got the better deal !!

Completely agree - top post!

50 million is a great deal for a player who doesn't want to be here, a player who has shown lack of effort, attitude and work ethnic for the last 18 months, a player who sulks and has an attitude like this.

Obviously, thinks weren't going well on the pitch but in the last 18 months (more like last 4 months), we finally got rid of the cancer, then Kenny was given the job and we actually spent money in January! Things could not be better for the future of Liverpool.

In probably a year's time, who knows, we might be saying 'Selling El-Basterdo' was the best move the club has made in the last few years.

Hate to say it but Ronaldo was a different class from Torres.

He was incredible, single handedly won the scum at least 2 premierships. Pace, strength, skill, incredible in the air, could score from 40 yards, and most importantly never ever got injured. Best footballer I've seen live by a stretch.

i agree buddy. I hate ronaldo from all of my heart but that player is in a different class. Even when Torres was is form of his life, ronaldo was in better form. I would have not admitted if Torres was still with us but the circumstances are different now. Even if you take the set pieces and penalties, Ronaldo is still a better player.

I agree with that. Keep things related to Torres and Rafa away from the Kop section.

In my honest opinion, F**k Torres but anything about Rafa should be in the Kop section, as Corbally said, the fella recently being doing stuff for one of the Hillsborough charities and some people still want to have a dig at the man.

It's F***ing pathetic sometimes.

J.D. got it right when he moved the thread to here.



What on earth are we doing discussing a previous manager discussing a previous player?
Thats what the Torres 70 mill stuff was about.


Nothing to do with pro or anti Rafa.
History.
Over.

..my choice right now is 100% Kenny, and if the owners brought Rafa in now (don't think they will) I'd be disappointed.

F*ck me. Pick me up.
At last.  Agreed on one thing.

If Rafa wants the job back he needs to find a club where he can succeed for the 3-8 coming years first, and I doubt this club can be a top EPL side, after making clear any club other than Liverpool would be a second choice for him (would, say, Chelsea fans like that ?), and considering his reputation out of Merseyside and the pressure english media would put on any team he leads. If he wants his family to stay and be close, I don't see a lot of good opportunities for him out of championship/just promoted sides. Perhaps one of the two scottish giants, one of the united kingdom national sides, or a rich wanabee team like Blackburn.

My advice would be pack your bags, go back to the continent (not Italy obviously, so Spain ideally, or any country where some reasonably big clubs may be happy to offer you a new start, Germany, Turkey and France being the most likely), concentrate on your new team and avoid the word "Liverpool" for at least 3 years. Get results there, then look if there is an opportunity to either take back Liverpool, or return in PL first.

My fear for Rafa actually, is he is likely to do just the contrary : manage to get the job in a big PL side where he will be hated by the fans knowing him as the fat spanish waiter and a Liverpool man, and of course the press, have difficulties with big ego stars having fond memories of their previous managers, have his team explode under maximum mediatic pressure, fail to get fast results, enter new battles with the press, other managers, his players and owners, get fired another time in less than a year, and end definitively out of big club management (including losing any chance of a Liverpool return) even if with time and less pressure he would be one of the best managers in Europe.

In my honest opinion, f**k Torres but anything about Rafa should be in the Kop section, as Corbally said, the fella recently being doing stuff for one of the Hillsborough charities and some people still want to have a dig at the man.

It's f**king pathetic sometimes.

Nobody was having a go at him about his charity work for Hillsborough so i don't know where the F**k you got that idea from?, certainly not from this thread. I think the reason this thread got moved is because it was, as pointed out by another poster, absolutley F**k all to do with our current predicament. A previous manager talking about a previous player about a F***ing previous transfer value.

Everyone has a soft spot for Rafa, how could anyone not?. But seeing his name constantly dragged into Kop threads and people juicing themselves over a possible return is bang out of order and disrespectful to Kenny and the Club.

I hope it hasn't escaped people's minds that Rafa is part of the reason this rot started. We can all credit him for Istanbul and the FA Cup, they were marvellous achievements. The second place finish?, what is second place?. Ask Kenny.

It means nothing. History never remembers the losers, only the winners. Once Alonso left his management skills were tested to the limit, so heavily reliant in the belief that the Torres and Gerrard partnership was unbreakable, we suffered in the long term due to his stubborness.

Rafa was a great manager but the way some people go on you'd think he'd won us league titles and everything. A managers true acid test is the League and Rafa failed in that respect. Lost in his cross bred philosophy and unable to detach himself from it. As a result of this Rafa, the team and ultimately Liverpool Football Club suffered.

It always helps to have at least a Plan B.

Just an opinion from you hardcore something a large amount for Liverpool fans disagree with me included but then it is a game of opinions

Im sorry hardcore but I got to disagree with your comments regarding rafa being responsible for the rot we find ourselves in.

You claim its disrespectful to kenny and the club of a possible return of rafa but I could not find a post to suggest the same view when roy was in charge.Rafa done us a massive favour to his detriment and In an era where loyalty is questioned (torres) I cant beleive that rafa is being battoned down for showing love and respect for LFC after all that is what we demand as fans,no?

Rafa ran out of ideas, it's as simple as that. I'm not knocking him down at all lads, he had to change his system to accomodate the loss of key players and he didn't.

You can remember Rafa as this god like figure if you like, that is your prerogative and i accept that. I see Rafa as a great manager that had it all in hand, then a couple of defections brought his philosophy crumbling down around him. He was so stubborn in admitting his mistake in retaining that philosophy when he clearly didn't have the players around him to implement it anymore that his lack of forward planning cost him dearly.

What he does for the community and the city of Liverpool is great and i applaud him for that. But if you think that it makes him immmune from criticism then you are living in the land of good old fashioned sentiment. Unfortunately, sentiment doesn't win you trophies.

And for the record lads, i said he was partially responsible, though i understand why you went full on about it in your usual defence mechanism.

What he does for the community and the city of Liverpool is great and I applaud him for that. But if you think that it makes him immmune from criticism then you are living in the land of good old fashioned sentiment. Unfortunately, sentiment doesn't win you trophies.

Then why is kenny immune from criticism?

I'm sorry but you can't compare Rafa to Kenny.

Fans had 5 years of Rafa to form an opinion. Kenny has only been in the job 2 minutes.

The Rafa debate should be over, and I can't think of a member who hasn't had their say.

Then why is kenny immune from criticism?

Just stumbled upon this post mate. Just wondering why you have asked this question as i have never said that Kenny is immune from criticism. Where did you get this idea from?.

In all honesty Kenny hasn't made a mistake yet, he is doing everything the right way. If criticism is due then it shall be given. Kenny has a philosophy, the same as Rafa had a philosophy. The big difference being that Kenny can adapt his philosophy to adopt different types of players, it is not set in stone as Rafas was. The fundamental principles of Kenny's philosophy always remain the same, but he can adapt to suit. Something that Rafa couldn't.

Another thing too, we are asking questions of the opposition now, not the opposition asking questions of us. We are going out to win football matches now.

Just an opinion from you hardcore something a large amount for Liverpool fans disagree with me included but then it is a game of opinions

Yes mate, an opinion. I don't roll with the flow on here. I say it as I see it and we were playing terrible football under Rafa in his final season. The season we finished second was a classic example of how Rafa failed, had we been more adventurous from the off then we would have won that title.

You even stated yourself in the season that followed that you weren't happy with the 2 defensive midfielder strategy and that it was stifling our game. Are you saying that this style of football was forgiveable under Rafa?. Were we winning lots of games?. No we were not. Rafa had to change his outlook but in all honesty he couldn't. That was his downfall.

Look at the way we are playing at the moment mate, basically the same players that Rafa left to Roy. They are playing out of their skin for Kenny.

I look back at Rafa and I'm grateful for Istanbul and the FA Cup. I'm not grateful for the second place finish because it means nothing to Liverpool Football Club. I'm grateful to him for all the charity work and the way he still holds us dear in his heart. I'm glad he kept his home here and I'm glad he still cares about us.

I can distance myself from that too mate, I can think outside that box of sentiment and say that Rafa ran out of ideas. The minute he refused to adapt was the minute I started to lose my faith in him. I still have massive respect for him but my faith and belief waned. He was never going to win us the League and that is how any manager is judged. He just couldn't make changes that were so obviously needed.

So look at this way corbally?. I have a lot of respect for Rafael Benitez, I am very grateful for what he did for us and always will be. He took us as far as he could, he lost the plot in his last season, he didn't know how to break out of his rigid mindset. We were playing dire football and showing lesser opponents much more respect than they actually deserved. He had lost players faith, not all of them but some of them. He was never going to win us the League, a Champions League?, probably yes.

Kenny and Rafa are in different Leagues, Rafa's philosophy was well suited to Europe but not to the hard physical demands of the Premier League. Kenny will adapt his philosophy for whatever obstacle comes our way, whether that be domestically or in Europe. He's been there and done it as a player and manager and he'll do it again.