West Ham 3-1 Liverpool - post match tantrums

Very true mate. I also noticed that nearly all of Gerrards short arrows were blue (aside from one ridiculously short one where I guess he fell over it or soimething), most of his medium sized arrows were blue, but the longer arrows were split much more evenly between reds and blues. I think he had seven reds as well which were actually passes into the box.

 My conclusion? people who pass them off as facts are chatting bollocks.  

A cross is an attempted pass, whether that is along the ground or in the air, it's an attempt to pick out a fellow team mate by hitting the ball to him with your feet.

A pass is a pass.
You can try and dress it up however you like - Gerrard was woefull yesterday, and did very little at either end of the pitch, in fact pretty much the same as meireles, but just coming back from injury is the reason. He looked shagged out fater half an hour, and even though he tried hard, things didn't come off for him, which we've seen before when he has come back from injury.
A few games under his belt and he should be back to the player we know and love.

Still and all, he should be judged the same way every player is judged - just because he is a legend, doesn't mean he should get a free ride.
If he's played sh*t, for whatever reason, then people are entitled to express their opinion.

They're not nonsense really, but they can't just be read as figures only.
The footprint of play needs to be looked at.
Obviously the harder passes will be the ones in and around the box, as most likely defenders will be putting the player under more pressure. The gift someone like Alonso had was that he could make those passes before the defender knew they were on.
Most critical player we need this summer

So when a player passes and an opposition player blocks or intercepts it you think the pass was complete?

In that case what you're saying is that Gerrard intended to pass to the opposition!!

He has been known to in the past debb's! henry at arsenal? 

He has been known to in the past debb's! henry at arsenal? 

Don't forget Chelsea last year...

A cross is an attempted pass, whether that is along the ground or in the air, it's an attempt to pick out a fellow team mate by hitting the ball to him with your feet.

A pass is a pass .
You can try and dress it up however you like - Gerrard was woefull yesterday, and did very little at either end of the pitch, in fact pretty much the same as meireles.

 Of course a "pass is a pass", but the point is they aren't all as difficult to complete as each other, or indeed as easy. To compare a cross with a five yard roll is bonkers, I don't need to dress anything up, anyone with half a brain can see it. Gerrard was by his standards poor yesterday as well, you're right about that at least.

A cross is an attempted pass, whether that is along the ground or in the air, it's an attempt to pick out a fellow team mate by hitting the ball to him with your feet.

A pass is a pass.
You can try and dress it up however you like - Gerrard was woefull yesterday, and did very little at either end of the pitch, in fact pretty much the same as meireles, but just coming back from injury is the reason. He looked shagged out fater half an hour, and even though he tried hard, things didn't come off for him, which we've seen before when he has come back from injury.
A few games under his belt and he should be back to the player we know and love.

Still and all, he should be judged the same way every player is judged - just because he is a legend, doesn't mean he should get a free ride.
If he's played sh*t, for whatever reason, then people are entitled to express their opinion.

It is hardly dressing it up to suggest that a 50 yard ping, or a ball in behind the defense has a higher degree of dificulty to a 5 yard roll back to the centre back, and hence a lower % of success.

 Of course a "pass is a pass", but the point is they aren't all as difficult to complete as each other, or indeed as easy. To compare a cross with a five yard roll is bonkers, I don't need to dress anything up, anyone with half a brain can see it. Gerrard was by his standards poor yesterday as well, you're right about that at least.

Who's comparing?
I'm certainly not - the only one who's doing that is YOU.
And what a F***ing hypocrite - on the one hand dismissing stats, and then on the other, attempting to use them to differentiate and exonerate a player who was F***ing awfull by ANY standards, let alone his own - there were reasons perhaps, but then that brings KK's judgement nto question because he's the one who picked him.

But it averages out over the course of a season.

You're attempting to justify his shockingly bad play yesterday by saying that a few of them were crosses - it can't be justified.

It is hardly dressing it up to suggest that a 50 yard ping, or a ball in behind the defense has a higher degree of dificulty to a 5 yard roll back to the centre back, and hence a lower % of success.

Well yes, it is - the best pass in football is the pass to a team mate, and the best football I have seen in years is full of short passes, and movement.

Who's comparing?
I'm certainly not - the only one who's doing that is YOU.
And what a F***ing hypocrite - on the one hand dismissing stats, and then on the other, attempting to use them to differentiate and exonerate a player who was F***ing awfull by ANY standards, let alone his own - there were reasons perhaps, but then that brings KK's judgement nto question because he's the one who picked him.

But it averages out over the course of a season.

You're attempting to justify his shockingly bad play yesterday by saying that a few of them were crosses - it can't be justified.

I compared them actually. I did so because they are the two players getting most stick since the defeat.
Context is needed when comparing the two players chalkboards.
That's all I was suggesting. Not trying to get on either side of the fence on this one

I compared them actually. I did so because they are the two players getting most stick since the defeat.
Context is needed when comparing the two players chalkboards.
That's all I was suggesting. Not trying to get on either side of the fence on this one

No, you're right, context IS needed - but at the same time people overlook, either by design or not, the fact that Lucas does spread play, does play long passes, and gets them right more often than not.
The difference is, he plays those passes when they are on, and if not he plays it safe - it's just how he was brought up playing the game I suppose.

Gerrard is a much more instinctive player, and I think that's where his flashes of brilliance come from - but when he's off his game, it just sets the whole team back every time he misplaces one, plus he's usually out of position to defend the counter when it happens, which in tur leaves other players exposed.

Bottom line - Lucas was left to take on 2 hammers midfielders on his own for much of the game yesterday, because Gerrard was knackered, and Meireles isn't up to that part of the job yet (which I put down to a couple of injuries and adjusting to the league)

I don't get the argument here.  The pass completion percentage shows how well a player finds a team mate, simples.

Where on the pitch it happens is important as the nearer to the opposition goal you get the more players get in the way.  So I would expect the more attcking players to have a worst record than say a defender or a midfielder.

Watch Barca, more especially Xavi and Iniesta, they always have a very high, sometimes 100% completion but a lot of their passes are less than 5mtrs, sideways or backwards.  

Does that mean they are s**t because they don't pass forward every time?  Does it heck!!

Anyway back on topic.

Players have different roles to play within the team, Gerrard is part of the attack so needs to find those killer passes.  He is also part of the midfield and should have been back helping Lucas but he wasn't.  As Captain I find that unacceptable as he wasn't thinking like a team player.

Lucas on the other hand isn't part of the attack.  He's there to break up an opposition attack and pass to somebody in a better position to create an attacking opportunity.

Lucas was bad yesterday, along with a good half dozen others, Gerrard included.  

Lucas was bad yesterday, along with a good half dozen others, Gerrard included. 

That's my point - I watched the game again this morning, and I think he did his job.
I also think that he was let down by others not tracking back with their man, leading to us getting over run by parker and hitzlesperger (sp?) he put in 7 tackles yesterday (doesn't sound a lot but is) and won 6 of them.

He didn't shine, he rarely does because of the position he plays, but he did his job.

That's my point - I watched the game again this morning, and I think he did his job.
I also think that he was let down by others not tracking back with their man, leading to us getting over run by parker and hitzlesperger (sp?) he put in 7 tackles yesterday (doesn't sound a lot but is) and won 6 of them.

He didn't shine, he rarely does because of the position he plays, but he did his job.

I agree mate.  He's there to protect the back line but had no protection himself.

He was left on his own too often and got outnumbered too many times.  He always does look weak playing alongside Stevie though.

I agree mate.  He's there to protect the back line but had no protection himself.

He was left on his own too often and got outnumbered too many times.  He always does look weak playing alongside Stevie though.

Which is probably why Rafa used 4-2-3-1 a lot with Gerrard

Don't anyone say Gerrard didn't misplace a '5 yard role' because he misplaced atleast 5 which is a disgrace, he gave the ball away with 5 yard passes more than anyone.

The performance was so bad, which remind me of R. Hodgson days, mind you our team that is full of average players have not had a decent performance since Wigan game, the team couldn't win by then, and had awful display in Europe over the past two game, and some how we expected that our beloved average star players, will lose badly against an average West Ham side, who had so easy against us, they were shooting and scoring for fun, like a practice match. Next Sunday is a very tough game, if we lose it, then we can kiss the 6th spot goodbye.

 Of course a "pass is a pass", but the point is they aren't all as difficult to complete as each other, or indeed as easy. To compare a cross with a five yard roll is bonkers, I don't need to dress anything up, anyone with half a brain can see it. Gerrard was by his standards poor yesterday as well, you're right about that at least.

No Gerrard fu**ed up so many simple passes yesterday.

I noticed Stevie tried a pass that didn't work but instead of chasing back to win the ball again he turned his back in disgust at himself.

He more than anyone needs to start thinking "team" first, "self" second.  

That's not criticising his committment but that he needs to trust his team mates and stop thinking everything is down to him.

Which is probably why Rafa used 4-2-3-1 a lot with Gerrard

Yep!

Yep!

Had become a good 4-1-2-3 with Aquilani during our Europa League run.
We definitely need another quality mid in the summer

I noticed Stevie tried a pass that didn't work but instead of chasing back to win the ball again he turned his back in disgust at himself.

He more than anyone needs to start thinking "team" first, "self" second. 

That's not criticising his committment but that he needs to trust his team mates and stop thinking everything is down to him.

Agree with much of this.

Had become a good 4-1-2-3 with Aquilani during our Europa League run.
We definitely need another quality mid in the summer

We do mate, anyone in particular in mind? 

We do mate, anyone in particular in mind? 

Diarra from real madrid would be a good one i think.