Do players cheat the club and fans

After another great result beating united, we then go and play very poorly against weak opposition. Just as we did after the Chelsea win. Now some of you will think it's too strong to call it cheating but what else can it be when it happens over and over again?

We have many average players in the squad but even they raise their game a few notches in the big games only to nose dive into mediocrity as soon as we play lower placed teams.

And that's why we cant win the league. Even under Rafa the year we finished 2nd we had terrible results to the lower sides yet beat all the top sides only to draw at the likes of Wigan and get beat at other average sides. And until the players mentality changes it will continue.

So the fact that we were missing Gerrard and Suarez had no bearing on the result on Thursday ?  Two key players.

Since Kenny took over, we have made excellent progression, so your statement is really another knee-jerk reaction.  You watch, next season we will be playing for CL and the Premiership title.

So in answer to your question, no, I don't think the players cheat the club and the fans.

Depends what you mean by "cheat", bit of a random topic altogether.

If you mean disappoint, then yes, they do disappoint us sometimes.

If you mean underachieve, then that would be equally correct, at times.

But when you say "cheat", for me it implies that there is intent from the players not to succeed, and I don't believe that for a second.

There are simply too many different factors and changes from the 2008/09 season up to yesterday's game to make such a sweeping statement.

You should probably make your point a bit clearer or else this topic will end up getting locked.

After another great result beating united we then go and play very poorly against weak opposition just as we did after the chelsea win,now some of you will think its too strong to call it cheating but what else can it be when it happens over and over again ,we have many average players in the squad but even they raise there game a few notches in the big games only to nose dive into mediocrity as soon as we play lower placed teams and thats why we cant win the league ,even under rafa the year we finished 2nd we had terrible results to the lower sides yet beat all the top sides only to draw at the likes of wigan and get beat at other average sides and until the players mentality changes it will continue.

What Bollocks you spout my friend, like Smigger said you are guilty of knee-jerking of the highest order, FF's fella thats just the way it goes sometimes, you cant expect to win every single game going, we had 3 of our top players missing on Thursday in Agger, Gerrard and Suarez, you could argue that is our spine and pivotal in any mans army, you have to have faith my friend, ive been watching Liverpool for 34 yrs and believe me ive seen games where i thought F**k me 'was that really a performance to be proud of', stick with it mate, its lfe, get used to it.

Yeah.. Bit of a knee-jerk-chicken post really.. Understandable after such a dry-ass game but to be honest, there's way to many variables in football that I'd concentrate on before I'd consider this argument..

I agree with Ayrton.

I don't think footballers actually step onto the pitch with the intention not to succeed.

By cheat I think he means not putting the same effort and commitment in that they do in the "big" games. I think to an extent thats probably true. I doubt its deliberate though, I just think its harder for players (especially our foreign players)to get themselves "up" for some games.Play the mancs, Chelsea or a big CL game and its easy, play Wigan away when you have no chance of winning the league anyway and it becomes harder. 

When the fans can't get themselves up for some games, how do you expect the players to?

I don't believe every time we have a bad game its because the players arn't trying, but I think sometimes they perhaps coast a little looking for others (Gerrard) to provide the inspiration rather than giving everything they have themselves.

Obviously there are games like against Braga when its more about the quality of the players missing than about players not being up for the game, but I certainly think there are others where we see less than 100% effort from some players.

I

We miss gerrard cos lucas and poulson are very poor and we have no xabi or masch to fill in anymore as for agger he is as reliable as aurillio and needs to go ,the fact is the squad is very poor and thats why we struggle when the odd class player we have like stevie we struggle, no doubt our no 19 is just around the corner with the likes of maxi,lucas aurillio,poulson and skrtel fergie will be bricking it .

No don't think so, If we play that team away again I will put money on with anyone we will lose

When the fans can't get themselves up for some games, how do you expect the players to? 

Err.....£100,000 a week would get me up for the game any day, any week.

We miss gerrard cos lucas and poulson are very poor and we have no xabi or masch to fill in anymore as for agger he is as reliable as aurillio and needs to go ,the fact is the squad is very poor and thats why we struggle when the odd class player we have like stevie we struggle, no doubt our no 19 is just around the corner with the likes of maxi,lucas aurillio,poulson and skrtel fergie will be bricking it .

hey fella, give it up will ya, i'm starting to think your a WUM, Agger needs to go, the squad is very poor, we miss Gerrard because Lucas and Poulsen are poor, your right about Poulsen but the rest is just sheer and utter sh*te, the 19th could arrive next season so will better players, i'm glad you dont have F**k all to do with LFC you would have Kenny sacked in April.

Am i the only one who thought we did enough to deserve a draw on thursday? Braga are no push overs, and unless i'm mistaken they've played champions league football in recent seasons. The squad isn't as strong as i would like, but any team without so many first team players would struggle to get a result there.

Since Kenny took charge, the player's attitude's have greatly improved, so i don't think we are being cheated.

Err.....£100,000 a week would get me up for the game any day, any week.

Just to wear the red jersey and play at anfield would get me up!

As for the question to thread i think they only cheat on the wag's! Facht!.

I get more nervous about games we're expected to win as I fear the (supposed underdog) spirit from the opposition and complacency from our own players. On the flip-side, if we play against teams that might pose a very tough game to get all three points from, then we step it up.

Sadly, I don't think we have enough proven quality in the squad attacking wise, to be truly confident of going out there and beating anyone we come up against. Having that consistency. Until we do, there'll be a good bit of inconsistency in games I think.

I get more nervous about games we're expected to win as I fear the (supposed underdog) spirit from the opposition and complacency from our own players. On the flip-side, if we play against teams that might pose a very tough game to get all three points from, then we step it up.

Sadly, I don't think we have enough proven quality in the squad attacking wise, to be truly confident of going out there and beating anyone we come up against. Having that consistency. Until we do, there'll be a good bit of inconsistency in games I think.

I know exactly what you are saying...I feel much better when we play one of the big boys and are in the underdog role then being the supposed favorites.

I think I know what the fella is trying to get at

We beat the defending league champions 3 1 on Sunday and its a comfortable win. That is a follow on from a disgraceful performance at west ham and is followed by a performance, especially in the first hour, which was on a par with the west ham one. How does this happen?

The original poster equates it to players cheating the fans. And if you search your heart deep down you have to say yes they are. How can a Liverpool team destroy there biggest rivals with ease in between being pi*s poor against 2 far lower opponents? Dont use Suarez as an excuse because he was there against west ham. Dont use Gerrard as an excuse because hes nowhere near his best and we cant depend on him to pull us out all the time.

The sad truth is we have been handed 2 inept performances which thankfully had a super win sandwiched in between. Why? Players tired after utd? Ok probably worked there socks off that day but anyone that plays any sport will tell you a win like that is a morale booster for the next game no matter how soon so fook that excuse. And what was the excuse for the west ham performance?

Like it or not or how its worded this topic isn't a million miles from the truth. Yes the king has brought back a spark, how could he not. But he does not step on to the pitch with these boys. He can only do so much.  There is, in my head at least, a doubt that this squad have it in them to raise there game to a level as last Sunday week in week out against lesser sides. And that is a big problem

The simple answer is our squad is too weak to sustain a high level week in week out. Kelly, Suarez, Gerrard - not available. Carroll only got the second half. How big a difference would those four make fully fit and availale everytime. We need heavy investment. It is our previous owners that cheated the club and fans. Not investing and selling off top players. Here is the damage left behind. A threadbare squad full of grafters and cheap transfers. It's not their fault they're not good enough. The players themselves aren't deceiving us. It's just some of them aren't and never will be good enough. Roll on the summer, when maybe we'll be able to put knee jerk threads like this to rest

No.

They try their best.

Same as the coaching staff and the manager.

Do you question KK when he gets his tactics wrong?
Is he also cheating us?

It's a bullshit thread as far as I'm concerned.

The simple answer is our squad is too weak to sustain a high level week in week out. Kelly, Suarez, Gerrard - not available. Carroll only got the second half. How big a difference would those four make fully fit and availale everytime. We need heavy investment. It is our previous owners that cheated the club and fans. Not investing and selling off top players. Here is the damage left behind. A threadbare squad full of grafters and cheap transfers. It's not their fault they're not good enough. The players themselves aren't deceiving us. It's just some of them aren't and never will be good enough. Roll on the summer, when maybe we'll be able to put knee jerk threads like this to rest

Far weaker squads then ours with far less capable managers give better then what we got for an hour last night mate. I sometimes feel we too easily hide behind excuses. Fact is we had 10 full internationals on the pitch last night and we were handed a pile of sh*te far below what this club expects. Why? How can ye follow up Sunday with that? I can take a loss but I cant take what I got for the first 60 last night because I got nothing

I think to many of our players have to much ego. They play against a team who they should beat and they don't try. Our squad is thin most defiantly but I think it's the players egos more then anything. Even Kenny admitted to that in one of his interviews.

To many players expecting to win without trying!

They try their best.

Was last night there best? Are you telling me thats all they had. Are you telling me if thats a second leg tie or a bigger opponent or bigger competition that thats the performance we'd get? No your damn right its not so dont say thats them boys trying there best

Was last night there best? Are you telling me thats all they had. Are you telling me if thats a second leg tie or a bigger opponent or bigger competition that thats the performance we'd get? No your damn right its not so dont say thats them boys trying there best

There's a difference between TRYING their best and BEING at their best mate.

Perhaps the utd game really took it out of them, or GOD FORBID, the managers tactics might be wrong.

Either way, I fnd it hard to believe that they are not trying...

Now some of you will think it's too strong to call it cheating but what else can it be when it happens over and over again?

We have many average players in the squad but even they raise their game a few notches in the big games only to nose dive into mediocrity as soon as we play lower placed teams.

Do you try with the same 100% strong effort every single day at your job?

Effort aside, is your performance better at your job some days more than others?

By your logic, you are cheating your company one or two days each week.

Do you try with the same 100% strong effort every single day at your job?

Effort aside, is your performance better at your job some days more than others?

By your logic, you are cheating your company one or two days each week.

Any 1 individual can drop off on performance not an entire team. What would happen if your entire workforce done a bads days work? Would there be no qustions asked?

Any 1 individual can drop off on performance not an entire team. What would happen if your entire workforce done a bads days work? Would there be no qustions asked?

I think that the comparison with "day jobs" is a bit misleading.

It's not just what these guys give physically on the pitch, but about the mental side of it as well - mentally drained can often be more punishing than physically drained.

I think that the comparison with "day jobs" is a bit misleading.

It's not just what these guys give physically on the pitch, but about the mental side of it as well - mentally drained can often be more punishing than physically drained.

The day job logic was in response to the previous poster.

I might be right, might be wrong but to me as an individual who adores this club there is, and should be no, excuse for an hours football with no effort (was there even close to one?) on goal. Until Carroll arrived did you feel in anyway inspired by what you saw? I didnt. And to be frank I think anyone who says they were pleased is a liar or thinks they should post positive stuff here for others to read.

Cheating is probably the wrong word in the thread title to use but please dont tell me we got 100% off the team yesterday 

The day job logic was in response to the previous poster.

I might be right, might be wrong but to me as an individual who adores this club there is, and should be no, excuse for an hours football with no effort (was there even close to one?) on goal. Until Carroll arrived did you feel in anyway inspired by what you saw? I didnt. And to be frank I think anyone who says they were pleased is a liar or thinks they should post positive stuff here for others to read.

Cheating is probably the wrong word in the thread title to use but please dont tell me we got 100% off the team yesterday  

I just don't think they tried any less - I just think they looked Jaded.

No player can be 100% all the time - but neither should nearly all our players be less than that by much at any given time.

That sounds like a fitness issue - and that's down to the coaching/fitness team.

I don't believe any player walk in to the pith with anything similar to 'cheat' in his head. But there are many many factors for the win or loss in any single game, and that make football the game difficult to predict and enjoy following our team. In our team situation I think the biggest factor is similar to racer said above, we lack in creativities/attacking force. We need some players who always enjoy to win, enjoy to destroy the oppositions, with killer instinct, the C. Ronaldo kind of players who seemed very happy to have opportunity to make a hat-trick against weaker opponent, I do not want to mention ex-scum player but it's just for example.

I'm confident we will much stronger from next season. I've trusted in King Kenny he can rebuild the red machine to glory again, and we no need to wait much longer.

Tough to say but what I do know is every time I read a thread and this guy has posted I feel cheated of my time it took to sieve thru the crap.

We miss gerrard cos lucas and poulson are very poor and we have no xabi or masch to fill in anymore

Lucas hasn't been very poor this season at all. In my opinion he has been our most improved player by a country mile. I have been the lads worst critic but his attitude is second to none and I think the lad just needs to develop a killer pass and he could be quite a player.

To your main point about players cheating the fans. I do think there are players out there who  cheat fans and they do so by going out onto the pitch without giving a F**k about the fans or what actually happens on the pitch. They don't give a F**k because they have signed solely for the money and nothing else.

But at Liverpool? Na. Not anymore, although with hindsight I think we may have just got shot of player who has been cheating us for the past six months. 

We haven't got anymore cheats just some who aren't good enough.

The players who cheat the fans can be found around The Eastlands and Stamford Bridge areas.

The words 'knee' and 'jerk' come to mind.

Below par players, yes. Cheats? Hardly.

most people with ordinary jobs try and do there best day and day out. but proffessional soccer players dont think the same rules apply to them. very difficult to fire players so they pick up the check even after a poor performance. if i was paying 600 pound to see the last match at braga. yes would feel cheated.nhl hockey has a good system you put in a weak performance your minutes of playing time goes down.wish they had the same system in soccer. you would have to turn the system upside down but it brings in accountability 

So the fact that we were missing Gerrard and Suarez had no bearing on the result on Thursday ?  Two key players.

Since Kenny took over, we have made excellent progression, so your statement is really another knee-jerk reaction.  You watch, next season we will be playing for CL and the Premiership title. [/b] So in answer to your question, no, I don't think the players cheat the club and the fans.

Isnt that what we try an do every season?

Not cheats for me but selective on when they want to give 100% to many players in positions with no one pressing for there place in the team.
Would have a different attitude if we had a stronger bench, way to comfatable some of the players in the first team. Perhaps time to blood some of the younger players, to many playing the hoof from the back, and with Carroll in the team this will only increse

well i have suspicions players are told to play a certain way in europa or champion league matches where there are two legs. the europa competition is a good example. think players on the away trip are told not to concede a goal and play accordingly. notice some of the scorelines and the borefest which took place this year.cant prove anything of course.

I think we have a "mindset" issue with our current squad. They remind me a lot of the England team actually.

When we play a team that is clearly at our level or above (e.g Chelsea, Barca, etc.) the players adopt the "underdog" attitude and they come out fighting for everything and run on adrenaline and look great.

Then they play a "lesser" team like Wigan or Wolves and they seem to want to win the game without really exerting themselves too much. They seem to start off confident of an easy win and then lose that confidence rapidly when they find out that the opponents are not going to let them get away with that and our lads just don't seem to have that ability to step it up until the game is already pretty much beyond them.

Oh, and this has been happening for at least 6 years so somebody needs to figure out a way of sorting it out. It is mind blowing to me how this just keeps happening year after year.

I think we have a "mindset" issue with our current squad. They remind me a lot of the England team actually.

When we play a team that is clearly at our level or above (e.g Chelsea, Barca, etc.) the players adopt the "underdog" attitude and they come out fighting for everything and run on adrenaline and look great.

Then they play a "lesser" team like Wigan or Wolves and they seem to want to win the game without really exerting themselves too much. They seem to start off confident of an easy win and then lose that confidence rapidly when they find out that the opponents are not going to let them get away with that and our lads just don't seem to have that ability to step it up until the game is already pretty much beyond them.

Oh, and this has been happening for at least 6 years so somebody needs to figure out a way of sorting it out. It is mind blowing to me how this just keeps happening year after year.

Spot on mate 

I think we have a "mindset" issue with our current squad. They remind me a lot of the England team actually.

When we play a team that is clearly at our level or above (e.g Chelsea, Barca, etc.) the players adopt the "underdog" attitude and they come out fighting for everything and run on adrenaline and look great.

Then they play a "lesser" team like Wigan or Wolves and they seem to want to win the game without really exerting themselves too much. They seem to start off confident of an easy win and then lose that confidence rapidly when they find out that the opponents are not going to let them get away with that and our lads just don't seem to have that ability to step it up until the game is already pretty much beyond them.

Oh, and this has been happening for at least 6 years so somebody needs to figure out a way of sorting it out. It is mind blowing to me how this just keeps happening year after year.

Like Saint I totally agree and one issue Kenny has to look at.

What Bollocks you spout my friend, like Smigger said you are guilty of knee-jerking of the highest order, FF's fella thats just the way it goes sometimes, you cant expect to win every single game going, we had 3 of our top players missing on Thursday in Agger, Gerrard and Suarez, you could argue that is our spine and pivotal in any mans army, you have to have faith my friend, ive been watching Liverpool for 34 yrs and believe me ive seen games where I thought f**k me 'was that really a performance to be proud of', stick with it mate, its lfe, get used to it.

I have to say I utterly agree with you there bill. I would like to add however where Braga are weak opponants. in todays football there are no weak opponants as most teams are very well organised aswell as the fact that braga are very very good at home. Look at the tactics we went there to do a containing job and maybe nick one at the end but sometimes it doesnt turn out like that. We are gonna batter them Thursday wait and see.